This is something I've always been wondering since I first saw the rule brought up. Apparently, the physical proof part of the rules says that a band has to have a physical release in order to be accepted. But what if the band only wants their music to be released for free legal download? Could they have all the metal aesthetics to be allowed on this site, but still be rejected because they don't release their music on a physical format? If that is allowed, where is it in the rules?

It's one of those things currently being mulled over, given - as you point out - that there are projects out there that have everything you could want from a without-a-doubt-in-your-mind metal band, but have chosen the digital medium for their only format. In large part, this is still very much a rarity - bands more often than not tend to flip flop between all sorts of formats, even when they've long associated themselves with one over the other. Our guidelines on PR are not so strict to omit projects that distribute CD-R versions of their digital releases on request. When it comes to change, however, the general sentiment among staff, and even among users, is that any change ought to be gradual and managed. Keep in mind that, like the "metalness" guideline, the PR guideline exists as a check/balance system; certainly it's upheld to support credibility/legitimacy/permanency, and to deter ephemeral projects, but (and others may disagree with me) I see it as a form of accountability, also. I find, having worked years on the band queue, that it helps to hold both the submitting user, and the site itself, accountable to the project by supporting the stance of "the project is credible, here it is, I have proof, this is it." Any move to bring in digital releases as qualifications for a band's acceptance (and that's really the point here) must balance both notions that a band is a metal band that has produced and released music, and that a band has some tangible awareness to it - a sense that it may resonate with the world outside of this online web we call home (and not simply be reliant on this internet circle jerk we've become a part of). That's not always so clear cut, especially as you move further into the depths of Myspace and Bandcamp. Also, like the "metalness" guideline, which has a system in place to deal with those projects that don't quite qualify for one reason or another as "metal," but are still considered a part of the metal scene as the metal scene is (abstractly) conjectured by this site... it's not a huge leap to adopt a similar process for PR, but it's not one that ought to be rudimentary mechanical in its implementation. Allow us to think on it just a little longer.

What did I just read.

An explanation.

If you weren't able to follow, please don't spam the thread with a completely irrelevant "lolwat?". This isn't The Tavern.

Ask a metal head in the 80's if they think that it would be possible to buy music on a computer or your cellular phone, they would smack you on the spot and laugh. I think the common grounds today for metal releases are still leaning to the physical tangible format. I would assume that in about 5 years there would be metal bands that would release their music in a digital format only.

For example - the new Fear Factory would release a "Digitalprophecy" album. You either download it online or if you go to the show they would have various barcodes of this limited edition or that edition (and the numbers would run lower like on a chopping channel for limited editions), you take you smart phone scan the code, confirm and money is taken from your account and the music is uploaded to your phone/cloud account. So when the show is done you can already listen to the album. As far as artwork I think bands would just send the artwork separately as a little booklet or a poster. I think bands would go creative.

No more walking around with the CD during the show though.

Is it possible - I think it is and it would happen with non metal bands sooner than 5 years. If enough metalheads would lean to the digital side MA would probably change their rule, but as of today 1.5 bands that release their albums in digital dont carry enough weight to make MA change rules just yet.

There are currently bands that release their format in digital only but I think it would be very difficult to distinguish legitimate bands from those of some kid in his bedroom sending a bunch of songs to itunes for download.

A rule change is possible, but not without caution, and likely not within the next ten years.

In ten years most new bands will probably start out by recording a demo and releasing it digitally, but that doesn't mean there won't be any bands that use CDs as well. It's also possible for pseudo-physical releases to exist - data stored on small chips in a business card type of thing could be uploaded to a device via a wireless link - and it could either be a link to a download or contain the music files themselves. Printable memory cards could make that much cheaper and faster than producing CDs.

I don't see CDs becoming extinct anytime soon, as they will always be used to some degree. There are bands that still release on cassette and vinyl, and while those formats are "obsolete" by modern standards they are still used by a devoted crowd of audiophiles.

However also in ten years it is possible that software could be written to algorithmically generate music that sounds very close to an actual electric guitar. It may even be near impossible to tell the difference, and a possible rule in the future might not require physical releases but rather proof of physical instruments instead.

Though it could be possible to reverse engineer the audio of such computer generated metal in a way that can determine whether it was produced electronically or from a real guitar, since no amount of emulation could perfectly capture the unpredictable imperfections of an actual instrument - whether it be the room it was recorded in, the device recording it, the performer's finger movements on the frets, etc., - in 10 years computer graphics may approach near-realistic means, but there will still be an uncanny valley.

The vast majority of bands release physical copies of their releases, only doing digital is still not that common for bands that are out of their demo phase. I think after CDs become obsolete, which I can see happening, many bands will continue to release vinyl. Also, I seem to remember Napero (pretty sure it was him) saying that if only releasing digital became much more common place, and a lot of bands did it, then MA would probably change the rule.

Allowing digital only would be too easy to abuse. Any asshole kid who wanted to spam the MA could create a fake MySpace page, upload a bunch of songs written and performed by someone else, and tell MA to add the band based on that. Would probably go undetected unless someone happened to recognize the songs and could prove they were another band's.

Same could be said of tapes or CD-Rs, or any non-commercial release. But at least producting a physical copy puts a bit of a burden on the submitter.

So, if a legit black metal act wanted his act submitted onto this site and does not have physical copies of his/her material available because they don't exist and never will because they don't want to make money that way and thus only has digital only releases available for free, they should be told that they can go eat shit because some kid might troll the site?

How would that be easier than it is now? If we'd be judging a band based on song samples accessed online, then the band's plagiarism is a hell of a lot easier to notice than the songs on a CD that somebody would only hear after they ordered a copy. Consider some band that registers a "fake MySpace page", puts up one or two songs and has a blog post with ordering info for 50 CDrs of their stuff. We have no way of knowing that the content of those CDrs is original material, but it's a heck of a lot easier/quicker to reach that conclusion if it's digital only.

"Hey, we just downloaded these songs, and I notice that they're all covers, what gives?"


Who said anything about making money? What's wrong with having a small run of CDrs and home-printed/Xeroxed covers in slimcases, mailing them out to people for free?

If we're talking about the slick, cleanly produced type of metal, it is - to a certain degree - possible now. In fact, I did it - with an outdated computer - two years ago. Not to perfection, I'm not claiming that, but it was very close for both power chords (including palm mutes) and lead guitar. And if I can do it at home, on my own, a more skilled producer / engineer than me with better resources can surely do it so that you'd be hard-pressed to tell the difference.

Now, if we're talking bedroom black metal, doom or anything that involves some kind of "dirt" to the playing, or the plucking of individual strings - or indeed anything non-distorted - then it's admittedly a different story. I haven't been following the development of music software at all since what I mentioned, but it is quite possible that some sophisticated physical modelling software exists for emulating clean guitars by now that could fool you into thinking it's the real thing. I know it existed for pianos even back then, but guitars would probably be a bit more complex to emulate.

Most demo releases never make enough money to repay the production expenses. Anyone making demos to make profit could just as well have the business plan of Southpark's Underwear Gnomes.

There are logical and reasonable reasons to stick to online releases. Not wanting to make money is not one of them. A bedroom demo could probably recoup the costs and some extra more easily through the sale of 12 MP3 copies than anything released on a CD. CDs cost money.

Just a question... How does one get his digital copy signed by the band?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_signature

Duh...

You get the musician(s) to come to your house and type their own names into the album's Comments section on iTunes.

Fuck you guys! These are dark times indeed....