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MalignantTyrant
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:27 pm
Posts: 1184
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:22 pm 
 

StellarGraves wrote:
MalignantTyrant wrote:
*sigh*
I still cannot yell like George Fisher. . . maybe I just can't? Been like a month since I posted here & still no progress.

Practice endlessly..

yeah, man! I started playing music when I was 4, I was growling at 14. I am pretty damn good at growling, certainly no Peter Tagtgren, but at screaming I suck monkey balls.
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garthmargengi
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:16 am
Posts: 482
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:27 pm 
 

How old are you exactly right now?
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Pfuntner
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:33 pm
Posts: 1096
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:14 pm 
 

Personally when it comes to harsh vocals, I've found that I'm happiest with the results when I stop trying to sound like other people and just allow my voice to develop naturally. It took some time before I was happy with them, but it definitely hurt a lot less than trying to force myself to sound like any particular idol of mine. Harsh vocals are supposed to be a primal style, so let loose. Of course you should still keep track of technique and warming up and what not to minimize damage.
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MalignantTyrant
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:27 pm
Posts: 1184
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:13 pm 
 

garthmargengi wrote:
How old are you exactly right now?

18
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garthmargengi
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:16 am
Posts: 482
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:40 am 
 

Oh, then you pretty much have your adult voice developed I suppose (it varies from person to person after all), first thing you should do is get to know your range, where and what are you comfortable with, and then work in expanding it, slow and steady, without pushing it too hard, and knowing where your limits are, set a starting point, a base sound (whatever comes easiest and natural to you) and try different outputs and styles upon that.

Best thing anyone can do, is take heed of what Pfutner said: the only way to sound good is if you sound like yourself, develop your own sound and characteristics, then try to shape it, but most important, accept your own voice and learn to love it, because that's what you've got, trying to sound too much like someone else will probably end bad, either because you'll strain yourself or because you'll sound like a lame version of the original, whatever it is, it's not good.

Long story short, work with what you've got, don't waste time trying to sound like someone else.
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unpersons
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:07 am
Posts: 20
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 5:58 pm 
 

I'm pretty good at black metal things, also good at old school grindcore vocals (think Repulsion/Carcass)...

I would like to, for whatever project I do next, have a good range of both higher grind/bm screams and lower death metal growls... I'd really like to have the bizarro range of the dude on Bethlehem's 2nd record and that one Anaal Nathrakh song...

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MalignantTyrant
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:27 pm
Posts: 1184
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:51 pm 
 

I don't think that I could be a black metal vocalist myself loolz. Even if I did manage to get my high pitched harsh vocals in shape and proper I don't think I could pull it off!!
People like Gaahl, Ihsahn or Trevor Strnad, I don't know how they do it lool
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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6557
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:42 am 
 

MalignantTyrant wrote:
I don't think that I could be a black metal vocalist myself loolz. Even if I did manage to get my high pitched harsh vocals in shape and proper I don't think I could pull it off!!
People like Gaahl, Ihsahn or Trevor Strnad, I don't know how they do it lool

Indeed.
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Necroticism174
Kite String Popper

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:46 pm
Posts: 4997
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:27 pm 
 

''This next song is about Satan loolz, Satan and goats Rofl!''
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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
Posts: 4581
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:03 am 
 

Urgh, my voice is kinda shaky at the moment, but I finaly nailed the hardest verses of Dream Theater's Innocence Faded''. I should really record some stuff soon.

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kale100
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 3:28 pm
Posts: 302
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 9:36 pm 
 

Someone please enlighten me...I'm starting to consider the possibility that black metal vocals do not actually exist. I've crawled the internet searching for tutorials (of which none of the hosts actually sound anything like say wolfchant, kromlek, kroda, whatever). I've never seen them done live (granted I've never seen any bands that heavily employ them). I've also never been able to replicate what people describe through text, despite discovering by accident numerous other types of vocals in my efforts.

Is the problem not in the human end but in the computer end? I've heard that reverb and distortion are applied in some (or all?) cases...how much of the cd result is coming from these effects?

Can someone please, please spill the beans, how is it done?

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awheio
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:00 am
Posts: 289
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 9:51 pm 
 

You can find videos of people all over doing perfectly unaffected black metal croaks of all kinds. There's shit on youtube.

However, those aren't my preferred bm vocals. I like the more robust, loud, soaring, emotive stuff. It helps to have reverb and such on those, but once you know how to do these things, it's pretty easy to replicate what you want without any kind of modification. And check out the vocals on Burzum's Hvis Lyset Tar Oss, for example: Those are pretty unaffected, very honest, but they're some of my very favorite vocals out there.

Sadly, I probably can't tell you anymore than what you've already heard.

I will tell you this, though. It took a loooot of experimentation over like 2-3 years before I really knew what I was doing. I began attempting to sing along with Agalloch stuff, which I think was a good starting point. I was told I sounded like Gollum. But over time, I worked on figuring out how to add power, and then how to imitate the multitude of variations of bm vocals. So my suggestion, I guess, is to start with emulating something simple, quiet, and relatively easy. Then work on modifying it and adding power.

It's an old question though, and I've never heard of anyone successfully being instructed on how to do it. I wish I could share though.

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kale100
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 3:28 pm
Posts: 302
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2012 10:13 pm 
 

I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I havn't been working at anything lower than maybe 7/10 of my full volume, it's worked fine for growls and gutterals and whatnot, but may be a valid problem for trying black metal technique. I think I'll try your way for a while and see what happens...quiet, simple, easy, Agalloch (actually I prefer Drudkh or Kroda, should be the same idea).

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awheio
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:00 am
Posts: 289
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 12:09 pm 
 

Is there a particular style of vocals that you ultimately hope to reproduce? If you could give me an example of a vocalist whose sound you especially like, maybe I (or we) could help more. In some cases, the techniques involved are pretty unique.

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kale100
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 3:28 pm
Posts: 302
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 1:11 pm 
 

I could give you a short list of bands...I'm not sure how much they vary in technique. I've kind of grouped them together in the way I think they fit.
- Equilibrium, Kromlek
- Heol Telwen, Stormlord
- Thorondir, Thrudvangar, Wolfchant <--- I like this style most

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JPH666
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:59 am
Posts: 145
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 1:57 pm 
 

Death metal vocals (exhales), low and gutteral in tone but fairly low in volume or higher in volume and less deep in tone. What are your thoughts on both techniques? Is using the first method and cranking the mike up cheating?

Established dm vocalists, what do they do....

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kale100
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 3:28 pm
Posts: 302
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 2:03 pm 
 

I think a lot of people do both, when you are doing low volume low pitch ones just go closer to the mic.

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awheio
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:00 am
Posts: 289
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 6:58 pm 
 

I hope to get back to the post about specific bm tone soon, but I've been busy.

About the previous loudness question, yeah, you have to strike balances. You can be pretty damn loud and still low and deep, or you can go yet lower until the tone becomes more of a grumble. Then you can amplify that. But, the thing is, the tone is very evident in the recording/performance, regardless of the volume. It's like hearing a low volume shout -- you can still tell it's a shout. If you want to sound aggressive, but just amplify something that has no balls behind it, it will not come out convincingly.

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garthmargengi
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:16 am
Posts: 482
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2012 7:50 pm 
 

I can get both a low tone and high volume, but I think that's more related to the range of each person than anything else, I'm a bass, so it comes off naturally to me.
The low volume plus sticking to the mic and cranking it up always sounded crappy and obvious to me, it's better to focus on getting better in whatever your comfortable range is and maybe leave the lows and that for small parts or backing your regular voice.
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MalignantTyrant
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:27 pm
Posts: 1184
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 9:45 pm 
 

when it comes to dm vocals I can practically do anything to a decent quality. I can do the low Mike Majewski growl, the mid-range gruff Benton shout/growl and the monstrous Ross Dolan rumbling. I usually use the Benton style vocals when I sing, but I think that it all really depends on what is more comfortable for you yourself.
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kale100
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 3:28 pm
Posts: 302
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 2:16 pm 
 

Ummm, about my inquiry earlier...nevermind. It somehow clicked today with the first vocalization I tried. Now I can get my harsh vocals 3-5x more raspy than before.

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awheio
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:00 am
Posts: 289
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 2:20 pm 
 

Good! Glad to hear it. Once the basics click, all it takes is time/experimenting/practice and you can gradually expand the sorts of things you can do. So it's good to know you're on track. I get bummed out when people can just never get it.

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kale100
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 3:28 pm
Posts: 302
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 2:25 pm 
 

Thanks, I'm pretty excited. I love it when things just happen like that.

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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
Posts: 4581
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 2:26 pm 
 

I've noticed a lot of my singing style comes from imitation. Currently trying some Geoff Tate/Midnight-ish vocals and trying to get that feminine, very light kind of sound. Goes well I think...though I probably shouldn't be trying this since my voice hurts since yesterday. :lol: Singing is so addictive. Even on a bad day such as this I still hit high notes which really isn't smart. Ah well.

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wyzt
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:02 am
Posts: 437
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 6:25 am 
 

JPH666 wrote:
Death metal vocals (exhales), low and gutteral in tone but fairly low in volume or higher in volume and less deep in tone. What are your thoughts on both techniques? Is using the first method and cranking the mike up cheating?


My band just recorded its first song, kinda shakey since its our first recording so when we go back in to record the full demo we will have a better idea of what to do. All my deep growls are quieter, and live it comes across fine, i just have to be really close to the mic. I prefer having deeper with lower volume. Its not really quiet, its fairly loud but not nearly as loud as higher growls...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY-KhaaF4Ww

While I'm here, any opinions on my vocals on this? (I'm also one of the guitarists)

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ralfikk123
Waffle

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:14 am
Posts: 1314
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 8:50 pm 
 

Has anyone got good exercises on how to increase the range of your falsettos?
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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
Posts: 4581
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 4:46 pm 
 

ralfikk123 wrote:
Has anyone got good exercises on how to increase the range of your falsettos?


You mean increasing high register right? This link will help you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMXNS9B4_FI

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Necroticism174
Kite String Popper

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:46 pm
Posts: 4997
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 12:20 am 
 

That might end up being useful. I've been practicing the song She's Gone by Steelheart and I can only hit those crazy notes about half the time, increasing my range would be epic.
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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
Posts: 4581
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 6:59 am 
 

I've been restraining myself a bit last few days. During my singing lesson my voice wasn't in a great shape so I decide to take it all easy. I'd like to cover Crimson Glory's ''Valhalla'' this week though. Maybe not the entire song, but atleast the first few verses should be able to go well if my voice is alright.

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EpicSceptic
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:26 am
Posts: 421
Location: South Africa
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 10:42 am 
 

I was wondering where you guys practice your growls/shrieks/shouts/screams/gutturals what have you. I tend to do it when I'm driving as I am pretty loud and noisy, but that doesn't give me a lot of time. I can't do it in my apartment because my neighbors will certainly think that I am torturing someone/myself.

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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6557
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 10:58 am 
 

EpicSceptic wrote:
I was wondering where you guys practice your growls/shrieks/shouts/screams/gutturals what have you. I tend to do it when I'm driving as I am pretty loud and noisy, but that doesn't give me a lot of time. I can't do it in my apartment because my neighbors will certainly think that I am torturing someone/myself.

At night in the nearby nature conservation area, at the band's rehearsal space. It's also a problem for me, I don't get nearly enough practice to develop as a vocalist.
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garthmargengi
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:16 am
Posts: 482
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 5:41 pm 
 

Never really, I only growl when we're recording.
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Necroticism174
Kite String Popper

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:46 pm
Posts: 4997
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 8:51 pm 
 

I practice every kind of vocal in the shower. Generally when no one else is home. Also sometimes if I'm at a desolated bus stop at night. Or one that I think is desolated, fun times.
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http://www.last.fm/user/TheEndTimeRiff
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EpicSceptic
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:26 am
Posts: 421
Location: South Africa
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 3:06 am 
 

Ilwhyan wrote:
At night in the nearby nature conservation area, at the band's rehearsal space. It's also a problem for me, I don't get nearly enough practice to develop as a vocalist.

Sounds like some of the residents in your area might believe in the Sasquatch. :-D

garthmargengi wrote:
Never really, I only growl when we're recording.

This just can't work. No offense, it's just that by the time you record you need your vocal chords well trained. I even get put off at practice if I'm really off key or if my voice starts to fade away too quickly. These things can only be prevented if you keep maintaining your voice.

Necroticism174 wrote:
I practice every kind of vocal in the shower. Generally when no one else is home. Also sometimes if I'm at a desolated bus stop at night. Or one that I think is desolated, fun times.

Ahahaha, I've done this. Not only does it piss my neighbours off but my girlfriend as well. She's almost always there when I am. Doubt anyone would go see what the commotion at that bus stop is. :lol:

So it's safe to say we are fucked for now, until someone creates a comfortable sound proof helmet that is. :scratch:

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sourlows
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun May 02, 2010 6:12 am
Posts: 210
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 6:38 am 
 

EpicSceptic wrote:
garthmargengi wrote:
Never really, I only growl when we're recording.

This just can't work. No offense, it's just that by the time you record you need your vocal chords well trained. I even get put off at practice if I'm really off key or if my voice starts to fade away too quickly. These things can only be prevented if you keep maintaining your voice.

there's something to be said for the value of vocal primality and spontaneity in certain kinds of extreme metal, many of my favorite albums have vocalists with pointedly untrained and unpracticed vocals. to cite an example most people here could relate to would be be Hvis Lyset Tar Oss or any of those albums.

i think what might be more relevant though is that when you "find" or figure out your voice, and practice it enough to the point where your technique is pretty much muscle memory, you can revisit it on command. i don't find any need for regular practice. to be fair i played in bands where we practiced every week and i was growling on a very regular basis, but after taking literally 2 years off it took me like an hour to find my voice for recording again, and my voice was actually tighter probably because it had healed somewhat from the regular abuse i put it through. maybe you need that formative experience of being able to practice your voice every week until it can called on command years later, like being in a live band or doing it in the shower, but once you have it figured you don't need constant practice.
of course this is all subjective, im sure there are styles of vocals that are much harder on the voice than others, some that can only be executed by a voice that is "in practice", but that definitely isn't true for some of the most common kinds of growls.

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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6557
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 8:06 am 
 

If you aspire for merely passable, you don't need to practice regularly - if Varg's vocals are better than Dan Greening's according to your standards, go ahead and practice as little as possible. If you want a powerful scream or growl with as little vocal damage as possible, practice as much as you can.

Quality clean vocals always take practice.
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garthmargengi
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:16 am
Posts: 482
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 10:45 am 
 

As sourlows said, I pretty much have figured out my own voice (growl-wise), how it works and how to get it sounding the way I want, and since I don't feel there's much improvement to be done on it (of course there always is, I just don't care to get better at it) I don't practice at all and only get back to it when it's needed. You can check out the link on my signature to see if it works or not, I don't want to sound pedantic, but I am very confident with my own sound after all and think it's good, otherwise I wouldn't be recording myself.

On the other hand, I do practice -it's what I intend to make a career of- my clean vocals quite often, since I'm training to be a lyrical singer.
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Orthodox Caveman
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:19 am
Posts: 96
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 10:52 am 
 

TheEvilSocky wrote:
Bah tis rearded, how any self respecting band would tour knowing some of the most inhuman vocals ever laid down were just studio trickery is beyond me.


If you think it's fake, so is the distortion on a guitar. Simple as that.

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worlddementia
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:40 pm
Posts: 189
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 11:36 pm 
 

Long story short, I need to learn how to do really fucking pissed off power violence/grind highs. Bands I have in mind are Discordance Axis, Leper, you get the picture. Can anyone help me out? I haven't scanned youtube or any other sources YET, but I wanted to drop a line through here because this thread/forum/site rules.
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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
Posts: 4581
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 8:47 am 
 

Practiced Dream Theater's ''pull Me Under'' yesterday with my vocal coach. I can finally reach the watch the sparrow falling part easier and add some power to it, too. Might record some shit this or next week.

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