Link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doUyUzrVEtE

Criticism encouraged!

Really fucking great, man. Would go well with some growly high vocals.

Only criticism I can think of is the clicking of the guitar from the actual video recording, which I find a tad annoying.

Yeah it was actually pretty good, but like he said that clicking kills it.

The rhythm-oriented playing mixed with dissonant intervals usually utilizes polyrhythms, odd times, and/or syncopation to make it more complex/interesting.

For example, the beginning of Meshuggah's "Rational Gaze" utilizes the same minor 9th interval on the bottom string that you are using. The cymbal hits on quarter notes in 4/4 time, another cymbal on the first beat and the snare on the third beat in 4/4 time, both playing for eight measures. The kick drum follows the rhythmic pattern of the guitar, which plays in 25/16 for four measures, then one measure of 28/16. This results in a different rhythm with each repetition of the riff and drum part, because they line up differently each time.

Overall, the song was simply boring, there was nothing interesting going on, dissonant intervals and nothing happening rhythmically.

Yo Zodijackyl, this is unrelated but your review of Bunkur's Nullify made me laugh out loud.

Quite boring indeed, the riffs are simple, the rythm is as basic as it gets and everything's quite repetitive. This doesn't necesarily mean something is bad -check the song Black Sabbath for example-, but here, you need to add some variation, because right now it feels like the song isn't going anywhere and I were instead listening to drone. The riffs alone aren't interesting at all, so if you're gonna be focused on the rythmic part (that's what I'm getting from what I hear) you'll need to learn how to write interesting rythms first.

Also, the guitar thing, why didn't you record just what the computer was playing instead of everything together? Assuming you were running the guitar thru a virtual amp.

Here's a great game we can all play: Randomly click on the time bar 10 times and write down the first note you hear for each time. You gain 1 point for every non-low E string note (which is a G), and no points for the low E string note. Person with the most points wins.

GO!

The first comment is always the nicest.

First Djent song



Just realized that I forgot to mute the camera audio... I will probably reupload it -.-

I got 2 points. Surely someone can do better!

Stop trying to start arguments. We all know that's exactly what you are trying to do. If you don't like it then say you don't like it, don't provoke people.

No one's trying to start any arguments. Instead of trying to defend yourself, play the damn game, give us your (honest) score and tell us what you think it means.

Stop.

It isn't very good. That's a nice way of putting it. Work on coming up with something interesting, instead of thinking in terms of genres. You sound like a beginner trying to play Meshuggah. Also sounds like you are picking way hard. I am not saying you're a bad player, because I haven't seen anything else you have to offer, but this is garbage.

You really need to learn how to use melody and harmony to build interesting parts. This is better than your last song, but only because djent is more recent than thrash/groove metal and less played out.

Picking too hard...? Read the description.

Im starting to understand what "interesting" means to you guys. It basically means technical.

No, let's go back to the Sabbath example, that couldn't be any simpler, yet the song is still one of the best things the metal world has ever come up with.

Interesting means it needs something to get my attention, now here there's no melody, there's no catchiness on the riff, there's no interesting rythmic, not even something weird to make me wonder what the hell is going on, and the riffs seem to drone endlessly, it just seems like a basic excersise.
Again, it seems that what you're focusing is in playing a rythmic style. Learn some interesting rythms then, it doesn't have to be complex, but this is as generic as it gets.

Didn't you say that criticism is encouraged? What's better than being your own critic?

This is exactly it. Your composition is terrible. Meshuggah find a way to keep my interest throughout their songs, which is tough because they are mostly very rhythmic. I made that comparison because your song is very rhythmic as well. The difference is that there is nothing interesting about it. Your song is completely devoid of riffs, melody, harmony, flair or anything else that can breathe life into a song. Good songs can be extremely technical or very simple. Good songs do not know a genre. What I was trying to say is that your song is completely derivative and poorly executed.

Edit: One piece of advice if I may: if you can't handle criticism, don't post things on a message board. Furthermore, don't take it another step and welcome criticism. Finally, if you do these two things, please don't respond to everyone when the general consensus is that your song is abysmal. Thanks.

I think it is catchy.

The difference between the general population and this forum is that:

I would think Walk by Pantera has a catchy rhythm. You would be like "no, theres nothing interesting there."

You would think that something like this is more interesting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VYIknmfz1E

We have completely different tastes.

I dont like music for the technicality.

You do.

Having odd timings ISN'T interesting to me. It ISN'T. IS NOT.

Something isn't catchy to me with odd timings. Not catchy to me with odd times. Odd timings not catchy. Odd timings = Not catchy. Odd = Not catchy. Do you understand?

Odd = Not catchy to me.

It doesn't have to be technical for me to like it.

It doesn't have to be technical for me to like it = majority of the population

If it isn't odd (which is considered catchy to you guys) then I don't like it! = the majority of the people on this forum.

So the majority of the people on this forum's tastes don't coincide with my tastes. My tastes are closer to the majority of metal heads tastes, because this is the only forum that gets angry everytime I post something.

It's not bad, it just means I better post something technical (only on this forum). Or else I will have to be prepared for this stuff (Everyone saying my song sucks).

Don't get mad. You guys will probably freak out after this. You can butcher my song but if I retaliate everyone freaks out.

This is the thing: I don't care.

That's why I told you guys to get all rustled in the comments.

Its fun.

That's why I don't say that when I post stuff anywhere else.

Now I will probably get banned after this. Because people seem to think that if I respond in the same manner that you guys reply in, then I deserve to get banned for it.

I don't care.

You guys are giving me views, so the comment section is just for some extra fun.

That comment actually helped me a lot. I tried it out and I wrote a riff based on what he said there.

So you guys can be angry, but try to do it in a constructive way (if you don't mind). Just channel your anger into constructive criticism. Hey, lets play a little game. For every time you say something that actually helps me, you can follow up with a mean hurtful comment. Then we can both benefit.

Let the battle commence!

Yeah, I would agree that it's very derivative and poorly executed.

But you're young, so perhaps you shouldn't be too disheartened by this criticism. I know when I was your age, my (sparse) work was suffering from similar problems, although I was into mostly power metal at the time, so I was doing miserably boring and derivative power metal. Now I'm nearly 22 and just beginning to feel like I'm coming into my own as a song-writer, though I admit I never invested that much time into it.

When you write, maybe it would help to have a clear goal in mind. When you formulate your goals, you can reject artistically bad goals, such as "to write a cool [genre] song", or "to sound like [band]". And it may help to take things slowly at first. I definitely don't think you're hopeless; this stuff shows potential. But you really, really need to heed the advice here, and not only think about melody and/or harmony, but also the structure of the song as a whole, how the parts will flow together, what sorts of feelings (if any) they may or should evoke. Again, having a clear goal can help with this. And if you can execute an unexpected goal very well, that's fine too -- people might not "get" it immediately, but you can always aim to justify it later. At beginning stages, however, you'll want to work at getting your audience interested quickly, and maintaining interesting work throughout the song.

edit after your post: Again, no one is telling you to be technical or that odd time signatures are necessary. It's just that those are some WAYS of having a potentially interesting song. You need to avail yourself of _something_ to make it interesting. I know a lot of people here are fans of some pretty damn non-technical stuff, like dbm and raw black metal and so on. You're jumping to conclusions. But it looks like catchiness is your goal then, or one of your main goals. You still failed to achieve that. 5 minutes after listening to your song, I can't really remember any of the riffs.

Thanks. See that was a good comment. Thank you!

Honestly, read some of these replies again. There is some good advice. I think the best so far is to work on melody, harmony and structure. These can be done on top of some more percussive, rhythmic playing. Try to make sure the song flows well, and above all, feel it. You look like you lack confidence in that video. Stop making sweeping generalizations about the forum members. People here (and metalheads in general) have very different tastes so I don't think it can be a majority/minority thing. Instead of making excuses, try some astute observations about these qualities in songs you enjoy, and try to put your own spin on it. Drop this song, and try something new. You're young- try again. Look forward to hearing improvement!

Stop.[/quote]
Didn't you say that criticism is encouraged? What's better than being your own critic?[/quote]

Whats better then being my own critic? Telling you to stop trying to get me to say that most of the riffs are played on the lowest string. I do not care. Meshuggah?

Most of the songs are played on the low E string.

What was your point?

Are you... kidding me? I just told you that basic stuff can be good, the quality of a song has nothing to do with it being complex, otherwise I wouldn't love early Gorgoroth so much; and in this case I'd take Pantera's Walk over that piece of crap any day, even though I don't like Pantera.

Getting interesting rythms doesn't mean that you have to play in 9/8, increase to 5/4 and then fall into a waltz, just try playing something that doesn't seem taken straight out of a generic excersises book, incorporate rythmic that's foreign to the style you're playing or at least try modifying a bit this one, place the downbeat somewhere else, use silences, play something else than black notes and halves.

Noone's getting angry or mad at you by the way, you should try reading the posts again with a different tone, you're acting too defensive.

Thanks.

Ill play white notes.

If you didn't care, you wouldn't ask for feedback and you wouldn't write a long post in response. Show that you don't care by not responding, arguing about your own music doesn't accomplish anything.



I'll just repeat your last warning:

You're not going to get constructive advice if you perpetuate stupid arguments. If you get a bad response, don't reply with more of the same worthless nonsense. You need to learn that you won't get much quality in responses if you're spewing arguments and nonsense.

Insults, flaming, and shitty responses will result in warns for whoever is involved. I'll handle that privately rather than starting arguments that detract from valuable input, I ask that you don't detract from valuable input. I shouldn't need to say this publicly, but I suppose I do in this situation.

Listen to this guy.

Yes.

Alright little guy, let's take this slow. YOU KNOW NOTHING. Shut the fuck up. you know nothing. Let that stew in your brain. Seriously, you don't know anything. But that's okay, because no one else does either! Except for an incredibly small group of magnificently talented musicians, none of which post here. And the most important thing you can take from this is that you need to tone your fucking ego down. Accept criticism like a man. If you have to defend or explain your art, then you have failed. Your art should stand on its own, with no defense or explanation necessary.

I'm glad you mentioned Walk, by Pantera. Let's dissect that song. Guitar intro with a simple and catchy riff. Drums build up the intro and then groove fucking hard. The guitars also change rhythms, repeating the same catchy riff with a different tail. The vocals kick in, the guitars returning to the simple catchy riff. The vocals here are CRITICAL -- the song would be boring as fuck without them. Prechorus has some chords that develop tension, and relieve it with that catchy chorus riff which is again modified slightly to make it appropriate with the vocal rhythm. Awww hell yeah -- GUITAR SOLO. God damn, Dime was so good at guitar. This solo is full of melody and emotion and is extremely interesting. Back to the chorus/intro/main riff to finish off the song.

So what makes this simple song good and interesting? It is primarily rhythmic groove. The riffs are introduced in a manner that you can quickly identify the rhythm and follow along with it. The guitars and drums provide a tight, solid groove, but still introduce variety to keep it from getting stale -- check the tail end of that riff, it changes constantly. The vocals provide melody, atmosphere, and lyrical focus, which keep the song interesting as well.

I'm not going to listen to your song again to explain in painful detail why it isn't good. Instead, lets listen to some instrumental djenty music that is actually good!

Animals as Leaders - Tempting Time

Before we even start, we've established an interesting rhythm in the background and outlined a chord progression. Next part? Badass djenty rhythm that follows the same chord progression. Atmospheric keys in the background. Drum part is interesting. After one repeat, we go into a badass guitar solo and -- hey, did the rhythm guitars change slightly? Indeed they did! The guitar lead carries over another change in guitars, this time adopting a more staccato rhythm. Badass sweep section, and the song sort of 'explodes' into another staccato riff with atmospheric keys. One more crash, and we've got clean guitars providing another chord progression. Leads into another cool guitar solo with a new riff, and then, holy shit, is that tapping clean guitar arpeggios layered with synths? Yes it is.

And I'm going to stop there because we're halfway through the song. THIS is what a good instrumental djent song is like. Lots of atmospheres, tonal textures, rhythms, and melodies to keep it interesting and fresh.

Your song sounds more like this bullshit than anything else.

YOU KNOW NOTHING!!!!

Alright, my song is shit. I know nothing.

So I just wasted 4 years of my life learning how to write music? I dont get it. I convinced myself that I can actually get somewhere with my writing. If everyone hates my music so passionately, then obviously something is wrong. If I think its good, but everyone else thinks its bad, how can I write good music?

Its like if im convinced 2 + 2 = 3, and everyone else knows 2 + 2 = 4, then how can I ever get anywhere?

Obviously it sucks, because I get no views. If it was good then I wouldn't get 30 views per video. I wouldn't be struggling to get more then 1000 views per video.

So now that you guys have succeeded on crushing a part of everything I've worked so hard for, what should I do?

Because your right, if anyone has ever said it was good, then it was because they had too. Or because they didn't understand. If my music was truly good then I would have gotten somewhere by now.

So whats the point of writing anymore? If 2 + 2 doesn't = 3 then 6 + 6 won't = 9. It just sucks because I haven't gone a day without listening to music for years now. I don't have anything else. Was it all a waste of time? Did I get nowhere?

...

Just get up and try again, that's all. If you liked it then just accept that the only person who will appreciate it is yourself.

Additionally stop being a melodramatic spoiled kid. Suck up criticism like a man and work your way through it. after 4 years don't expect anything to sound worth a fuck. I didn't start writing my own songs till I had 12 years of guitar and bass under my belt and 8 years of drumming, and 8 years of composing music with groups of musicians of all styles be it metal, rock, blues, screamo, punk, noise.

SO just get on writing and if you are going to act like this... please don't bother sharing it here.

Yeah.

I deleted the video.

Im going to make a new You Tube account...

well that's a bit overdramatic. lines of with this http://encyclopediadramatica.se/Delete_ ... everything

I deleted the video?...

Well not that you just deleted your video but your plans to get a new youtube account cause you don't want to be associated with it.

Look if you liked it you should've just left it up and let it go as if. if you were really that embarrassed by it then.. Well i have nothing else to say. Just keep trying.

Sure.

don't get like that mate. no sense in getting defeated. write more tunes. SLK is on to something, nigga is in a lot of bands.

Ahhh!! Yess! Progress!! You understand that the music you're writing isn't very good. This is very important. I wish I had developed that skill at age 15 instead of 25. (Joke: I'm 23)

Now, I don't think you read much more into my post than "SUXORS LOL." Otherwise, you'd have picked up on some important ways to improve. First, listen to your music objectively. Don't think, "This is my song!", think "This is -a- song." Do you really think it is any good? No, you shouldn't, because there is definitely a lot of improvement to be had on your fundamental songwriting techniques and abilities. Don't just listen to music, but really study it as well. Read what I did up there with Walk and Animals as Leaders, and do that to songs you really like. Write down what is happening in detail, figure out why it is awesome or why you like it, and think about incorporating similar aspects into your own music.

So that is the first aspect of improvement: Objectively criticizing your own music. You love your music because its your baby, you know? Well fuck that, your baby has grown up into an adult bum and you need to fucking kick that lazy bastard off the couch and make it get a real job. Once you have an objective view of your music, you won't need metal-archives to tell you it sucks (or rules), you'll know for yourself. Of course, it is always good to make sure you're not getting too infatuated or cynical, so getting feedback from others is healthy and good.

The second is simply to practice and push yourself. You're probably going to suck for a while, and that's OK, because so will every other beginner and so has everyone else that can play music worth a damn. Always be trying new things, new styles, new techniques, new melodies, new harmonies... but at the same time, be practicing the old stuff, refining and improving it. Keep writing songs, even if they suck, just make sure they're always better than what you did before. Start a band with other talented musicians and let them influence your songwriting. Write songs with other people, let them fill in the gaps of your knowledge, and vice versa. It is a long, hard road, and you'll get a lot of harsh negative criticism, but whether or not you can make it is dependant solely on your ability to take the heat and let it forge you into something stronger instead of break you.