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Necroticism174
Kite String Popper

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:46 pm
Posts: 4997
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:56 pm 
 

Honestly, I don't see the point in getting another guitar if it's not an upgrade. Low end Jackson guitars are pretty terrible.
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lord_ghengis about Vomitory splitting up wrote:
They were a band who understood music needed more explosions.

http://www.last.fm/user/TheEndTimeRiff
http://halberddoom.bandcamp.com/releases

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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
Posts: 4581
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:11 am 
 

Question for guitar players round here: have you ever got to a point where you're writing a riff, think it's pretty cool then later play it again and actually think it's pretty shitty? :lol: If so what do you do with it? Forget about it? Save it so you can always edit it?

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Necroticism174
Kite String Popper

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:46 pm
Posts: 4997
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:53 pm 
 

Well if I thought it was cool enough that I actually remember it in the first place, I just mess with it until I'm satisfied again. Add or remove notes or licks etc...
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lord_ghengis about Vomitory splitting up wrote:
They were a band who understood music needed more explosions.

http://www.last.fm/user/TheEndTimeRiff
http://halberddoom.bandcamp.com/releases

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Hermit Hill
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:19 pm
Posts: 48
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:16 pm 
 

colin040 wrote:
Question for guitar players round here: have you ever got to a point where you're writing a riff, think it's pretty cool then later play it again and actually think it's pretty shitty? :lol: If so what do you do with it? Forget about it? Save it so you can always edit it?


If my problem with the riff is the general feel of it, I discard it or put it away for other projects. But yeah like Necro said, just play around with it until it feels right if you know what I mean.

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Hermit Hill
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:19 pm
Posts: 48
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:20 pm 
 

Necroticism174 wrote:
Honestly, I don't see the point in getting another guitar if it's not an upgrade. Low end Jackson guitars are pretty terrible.


I have heard fantastic things about Agiles though. I think that would be an upgrade.

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Necroticism174
Kite String Popper

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:46 pm
Posts: 4997
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:57 pm 
 

Their more expensive models look pretty awesome, but their cheapest ones are SUSPICIOUSLY cheap. I wonder if they're any good.
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lord_ghengis about Vomitory splitting up wrote:
They were a band who understood music needed more explosions.

http://www.last.fm/user/TheEndTimeRiff
http://halberddoom.bandcamp.com/releases

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Hermit Hill
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:19 pm
Posts: 48
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:53 pm 
 

Necroticism174 wrote:
Their more expensive models look pretty awesome, but their cheapest ones are SUSPICIOUSLY cheap. I wonder if they're any good.

I've heard their $85 guitars make fantastic starters.

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Necroticism174
Kite String Popper

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:46 pm
Posts: 4997
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:00 pm 
 

If this is true, and as their prices go up so do their qualities, he should indeed look into them with his budget.
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lord_ghengis about Vomitory splitting up wrote:
They were a band who understood music needed more explosions.

http://www.last.fm/user/TheEndTimeRiff
http://halberddoom.bandcamp.com/releases

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Porman
Sweek Souvlaki Muncher

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 5:00 pm
Posts: 1547
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:50 pm 
 

Hermit Hill wrote:
colin040 wrote:
Question for guitar players round here: have you ever got to a point where you're writing a riff, think it's pretty cool then later play it again and actually think it's pretty shitty? :lol: If so what do you do with it? Forget about it? Save it so you can always edit it?


If my problem with the riff is the general feel of it, I discard it or put it away for other projects. But yeah like Necro said, just play around with it until it feels right if you know what I mean.


It happens all the time. I just file those in the archives and maybe go back to it in a few years or so. But mostly, I just throw them away.


Necroticism174 wrote:
Honestly, I don't see the point in getting another guitar if it's not an upgrade. Low end Jackson guitars are pretty terrible.


Pre-Fender owned low end Jacksons were pretty good. I don't know about their quality now.
I used to own a Jackson Randy Rhoads Concept '94 that was made in Korea I think, which was a pretty good guitar.
Sold it in favour of my RR1.

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Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 5011
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:29 pm 
 

Necroticism174 wrote:
Their more expensive models look pretty awesome, but their cheapest ones are SUSPICIOUSLY cheap. I wonder if they're any good.


Agile, and most/all of the rondomusic brands, are manufactured by many of the same facilities that make better known brands. Those $99 guitars are the same builds as a lot of $150-200 guitars with recognizable brand names on them. You're not paying for a brand name, and you're not paying for a retail store, you're not paying for advertising of the brand name.

The majority of mass-produced guitars are made in factories that are contracted by the "brand name" companies (Fender, Gibson, etc) to make them a certain number of guitars to certain specifications. One factory will often manufacture multiple brands, and it's also very common for the same model to be built in several different factories, with some fluctuation in quality, in different years. "No-name" brand guitars like the ones rondomusic sells are made in the same factories, contracted the same way. They have a pretty damn good track record, especially because their lower prices generally lower people's expectations, and for the same price you usually purchase a step or two up from a big-name brand.

Rondo guitars sometimes require some setup, but that's true of many brands.

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FearlessUndeadMachines
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:57 am
Posts: 77
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:19 pm 
 

I played a cream colored Agile thinline semi-hollow 12 string electric the other day. Had a beautiful book-matched figured maple top, 2 humbuckers, block inlays, binding all around. It was a loaner being used in a project studio, so I tracked with it. I can report that that was a fine instrument. Sounded great, played great, everything.

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Hermit Hill
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:19 pm
Posts: 48
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:39 am 
 

FearlessUndeadMachines wrote:
I played a cream colored Agile thinline semi-hollow 12 string electric the other day. Had a beautiful book-matched figured maple top, 2 humbuckers, block inlays, binding all around. It was a loaner being used in a project studio, so I tracked with it. I can report that that was a fine instrument. Sounded great, played great, everything.

How much would you normally pay for a guitar of that quiality?

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FearlessUndeadMachines
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:57 am
Posts: 77
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:05 pm 
 

Hermit Hill wrote:
How much would you normally pay for a guitar of that quiality?


I have payed $650-800 for guitars that good, and I have payed $1200 and up for far worse instruments (right, Gibson?).

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allureoftheearth
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:28 pm
Posts: 153
Location: US of A
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:16 am 
 

I think I might save up for a Marshall Valvestate. I need a new practice amp and the one I have (Crate GX-15. Got it from my now ex-girlfriend's dad) doesn't really sound too good.
Any body have recommendations for practice amps?
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Hermit Hill
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:19 pm
Posts: 48
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:37 am 
 

allureoftheearth wrote:
I think I might save up for a Marshall Valvestate. I need a new practice amp and the one I have (Crate GX-15. Got it from my now ex-girlfriend's dad) doesn't really sound too good.
Any body have recommendations for practice amps?

I use a Peavey Vypyr 15. It's cheap, has a lot of effects and a decent tone. Not to mention it can play loud enough for my entire (small) town to hear it.

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Necroticism174
Kite String Popper

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:46 pm
Posts: 4997
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:05 am 
 

argile seem to have some nice 7 string models which is what I'm looking into. I might get me one of those.
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lord_ghengis about Vomitory splitting up wrote:
They were a band who understood music needed more explosions.

http://www.last.fm/user/TheEndTimeRiff
http://halberddoom.bandcamp.com/releases

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Hermit Hill
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:19 pm
Posts: 48
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 4:33 pm 
 

Necroticism174 wrote:
argile seem to have some nice 7 string models which is what I'm looking into. I might get me one of those.

Their 7 strings look extremely sexy, I'd like to play one of those one day.

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Grave_Wyrm
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:55 pm
Posts: 2217
Location: At the bottom of the lake
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:43 pm 
 

Thanks for all the knowledge! A lot here to look back on.
Had a couple things to add, and a question.

About palm-muting: along with different hand positions, try adjusting the pressure of your palm mid-riff. Physics is a very odd thing, and sometimes combining existing vibrations with release (or smothering) of just-made ones can make resonances which seem impossible with a fixed hand position. In a way, I've found that experimenting more or less systematically with hand position and pressure may take a while at first, but you learn a lot about what to avoid and always end up coming across stuff that's more or less repeatable. Sometimes you just get lucky when recording, though. REMEMBER TO SAVE!! :)

I got a good tip on left-hand technique from a classical violinist: imagine your finger just landing on the string, try not to squeeze. I ended up being able to play a lot faster this way. (accuracy isn't yet what I want it to be, but .. that's what practice is for!)

This might be a bit off topic (lemme know if it's too far) but what are some easy and cheap tips to contain acoustics in a space with high ceilings, even if the walls aren't overly far apart? I mean .. if building a false ceiling isn't an option. -- i'm going to google this, obviously, but sometimes people know things the internet doesn't.
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Hermit Hill
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:19 pm
Posts: 48
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 1:51 pm 
 

Grave_Wyrm wrote:
I got a good tip on left-hand technique from a classical violinist: imagine your finger just landing on the string, try not to squeeze. I ended up being able to play a lot faster this way. (accuracy isn't yet what I want it to be, but .. that's what practice is for!)

I love tips like that. When you can visualize it gets so much easier.

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Grave_Wyrm
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:55 pm
Posts: 2217
Location: At the bottom of the lake
PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:29 pm 
 

Agreed, Hermit. :) Cross-discipline conversation can yield much that is awesome.

As an aside, another really simple revelation was when it dawned on me to take the bass seriously as part of the rhythm section and not just a low guitar, so I applied what I knew as a drummer and my bass playing got better immediately .. kind of a Bill & Ted "whoah" moment, but it's served me well. :P

[ps- I almost bought a Vypyr. Seemed good, and not too expensive.]
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TheStormIRide wrote:
Strange whistling vocals in human monster? Color me intrigued.

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somefella
Veteran

Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:57 pm
Posts: 2662
Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:08 am 
 

Hermit Hill wrote:
Grave_Wyrm wrote:
I got a good tip on left-hand technique from a classical violinist: imagine your finger just landing on the string, try not to squeeze. I ended up being able to play a lot faster this way. (accuracy isn't yet what I want it to be, but .. that's what practice is for!)

I love tips like that. When you can visualize it gets so much easier.


I agree very much with this for soloing, but not for rhythm playing, especially thrash and death metal.

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Grave_Wyrm
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:55 pm
Posts: 2217
Location: At the bottom of the lake
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:25 am 
 

somefella wrote:
Grave_Wyrm wrote:
I got a good tip on left-hand technique from a classical violinist: imagine your finger just landing on the string, try not to squeeze. I ended up being able to play a lot faster this way. (accuracy isn't yet what I want it to be, but .. that's what practice is for!)


I agree very much with this for soloing, but not for rhythm playing, especially thrash and death metal.


You're absolutely right. When one has to play a chord, one must squeeze. Likewise when one must churn like mad. Also for Ihsahn-style riffing during the verse the advice applies, though solos are an excellent example. Chords don't benefit from a light touch, exactly, but endurance does, so consider how hard you're squeezing to get the chord and let off a little if you can afford to. It doesn't take much effort to make even groups of notes happen.

That said, if the death grip is one's thing, go for it.
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TheStormIRide wrote:
Strange whistling vocals in human monster? Color me intrigued.

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allureoftheearth
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:28 pm
Posts: 153
Location: US of A
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:55 pm 
 

<--incoming newbie question-->

Question about cables.

I was told the brand of cables you use can really make a difference in the sound and I was wondering what brands you guys use and why?
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somefella
Veteran

Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:57 pm
Posts: 2662
Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:44 am 
 

The difference between a really really shitty one and a really really expensive one can be heard. Though I personally don't care about brands, just make sure to maintain your own cables properly and you don't need to get a $70 Monster one.

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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6556
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:48 am 
 

I sincerely doubt there can be remarkable differences in cables in any other respect than durability.
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Illusions Dead - death/black metal

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Necroticism174
Kite String Popper

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:46 pm
Posts: 4997
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:26 pm 
 

In my experience, there's little to no difference.
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lord_ghengis about Vomitory splitting up wrote:
They were a band who understood music needed more explosions.

http://www.last.fm/user/TheEndTimeRiff
http://halberddoom.bandcamp.com/releases

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Hermit Hill
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 12:19 pm
Posts: 48
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:25 pm 
 

My cables are so fucked up because I don't take care of them. If I rub them the wrong way I get a shit-ton of feedback until I adjust them a bit :/

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Mechanix11
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:33 pm
Posts: 130
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:50 am 
 

hi again, well anyone got some advice to start with the basic things?
im in a thrash/death metal band and well i think my playing is not at all (i've been playing like 4 or 5 years)
so if anyone can tell me some tips or advices i would appretiate.

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somefella
Veteran

Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:57 pm
Posts: 2662
Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:15 am 
 

For getting better at thrash/death metal rhythm playing, it's important to get the right influences. As awesome as Morbid Angel is, that style of riffing doesn't teach you much technique if you're gonna learn some of their songs.

Learn a bunch of Iced Earth, Vader, and Obituary songs to get that heavy, clunking death metal sound as well as the faster, triplet-littered riffing style. You'll know your technique is right when your triplets are as clear and defined as Travel In Stygian, your pinch harmonics scream as loud as Wings, and your chugs are as downright heavy as Slowly We Rot.

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Mechanix11
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:33 pm
Posts: 130
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:16 am 
 

thanks, another question its necessary to learn some of the basics (chords, theory, scales) if i want to play that genre.
If so what things are important to learn?
Also for soloing what techniques i would also learn?

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JPH666
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:59 am
Posts: 145
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:27 am 
 

Any advice for Pinch Harmonics? not matter what i try i can not do them

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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6556
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:17 am 
 

JPH666 wrote:
Any advice for Pinch Harmonics? not matter what i try i can not do them

Try if you can do it by up-picking.
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Yrael
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:27 pm
Posts: 20
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:34 pm 
 

Grave_Wyrm wrote:
Agreed, Hermit. :) Cross-discipline conversation can yield much that is awesome.

As an aside, another really simple revelation was when it dawned on me to take the bass seriously as part of the rhythm section and not just a low guitar, so I applied what I knew as a drummer and my bass playing got better immediately .. kind of a Bill & Ted "whoah" moment, but it's served me well. :P

[ps- I almost bought a Vypyr. Seemed good, and not too expensive.]


Vypyrs are a good low end practice amp. Don't get a Line 6 as they practically fall apart over time. I know this phenomenal musician who was broke and bought a Spider III a few years ago. He sprung for the 100 watt one as he gigged a lot around Georgia and a lot of places have terrible sound systems and wanted to be heard. Those things SUCK. He now has a 5150 and a bad ass Crate 4x12 Cab... anyway, you should look into a Roland Cube, Peavy Vyper, or maybe an Orange Crush series. The Orange is GREAT for everything but metal, however haha.
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"Here at the edge of this world
Here I gaze at a pantheon of oak, a citadel of stone
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Then God is not dead"
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Mechanix11
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:33 pm
Posts: 130
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:16 pm 
 

somefella wrote:
For getting better at thrash/death metal rhythm playing, it's important to get the right influences. As awesome as Morbid Angel is, that style of riffing doesn't teach you much technique if you're gonna learn some of their songs.

Learn a bunch of Iced Earth, Vader, and Obituary songs to get that heavy, clunking death metal sound as well as the faster, triplet-littered riffing style. You'll know your technique is right when your triplets are as clear and defined as Travel In Stygian, your pinch harmonics scream as loud as Wings, and your chugs are as downright heavy as Slowly We Rot.

Also some Sepultura songs would be good?
(as i said before) and its necessary to learn some of the basics (chords, theory, scales) if i want to play that genre.
If so what things are important to learn?
Also for soloing what techniques i would also learn?

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somefella
Veteran

Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:57 pm
Posts: 2662
Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:04 am 
 

Yeah those would be good too. Don't think you've nailed them until each individual chug/note is very defined instead of a rumbling mess.

As I mentioned before, you don't really need to learn much theory if you're just gonna play those songs but if you intend to write, you should know a few basics such as chord progressions and intervals.

Try not to limit your soloing by only learning the soloing style typical in that genre.Technique-wise, learn to alternate pick cleanly and at a steady tempo. Learn to sweep pick and tap cleanly. A lot of amateur guitarists can do these really fast but with a ton of extra noise, no point in doing that.

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Mechanix11
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 12:33 pm
Posts: 130
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:42 pm 
 

somefella wrote:
Yeah those would be good too. Don't think you've nailed them until each individual chug/note is very defined instead of a rumbling mess.

As I mentioned before, you don't really need to learn much theory if you're just gonna play those songs but if you intend to write, you should know a few basics such as chord progressions and intervals.

Try not to limit your soloing by only learning the soloing style typical in that genre.Technique-wise, learn to alternate pick cleanly and at a steady tempo. Learn to sweep pick and tap cleanly. A lot of amateur guitarists can do these really fast but with a ton of extra noise, no point in doing that.

Also i dont mentioned that, im going to write also so im going to watch that of the chord progressions and intervals.
And for soloing, yeah im going to look for other techniques like legato and other ones

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Porman
Sweek Souvlaki Muncher

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 5:00 pm
Posts: 1547
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:42 pm 
 

I don't understand how people can buy a guitar and an amp for $2,000 and then be a cheapskate and buy a shitty cable...
I bought 10 feet of George L's cable with two straight plugs in 1998. I still have that cable. It sounds good and I've used it every time I play since then and it still is alive!

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Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 5011
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:21 pm 
 

Re: cables

On multiple occasions I have taken part in a blind test of cables. I couldn't tell the difference between a Mogami cable, two varieties of Monster cables, a bargain bin cable, and 1/4" ends soldered onto a coat hanger.

The cables within my recording setup are made from relatively inexpensive parts - Neutrik connectors and unlabeled cable - someone made the cables for me (for free!) and I haven't had a problem. If you're concerned about shielding, buy the parts and make them yourself (I had someone else do this for me).

I use a Monster instrument cable, the cheapest line, simply because I break every instrument cable and their warranty of being able to bring it into any authorized retailer and have it replaced, no questions asked, is really nice. I was a given a 12' cable many years ago, and I bought a 21' cable more recently, and each has been replaced several times. They sound exactly the same as every other cable, but I get a new one even if it's broken from something stupid like rolling a chair over it.

In short, use whatever cheap cables you can find, if it's going to be used and abused, by the cheapest thing with a lifetime warranty at your local music store. Having a right angle plug on the instrument side can be convenient, especially if you like to play while sitting down and your jack is on the side of the guitar.



Re: pressure on strings

If you're holding the strings really hard, let up a little bit and see if it still sounds fine. This is one of the things you can work with over time and you'll get used to only holding the strings as hard as you need to. My first guitar has the imprints of wound strings on the first few frets, the one I've been playing for a few years now does not. Going between standard and drop tunings with the same size bottom string can give you a tendency to press the lowest string down more than you need to when you're drop tuned, but that's not a big deal.

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allureoftheearth
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 11:28 pm
Posts: 153
Location: US of A
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:45 pm 
 

I think we should make a mega-post that points out common questions asked in this thread with links/advice and all that jazz. You know, maybe sticky it so it's easy to find.
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TheMysticWombat
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:29 am
Posts: 388
Location: CA, U.S.A.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:46 pm 
 

Mechanix11 wrote:
(as i said before) and its necessary to learn some of the basics (chords, theory, scales) if i want to play that genre.
If so what things are important to learn?
Also for soloing what techniques i would also learn?


Learn the Major, Minor, and Harmonic Minor scale. (Difference between the last 2 is just the seventh note.)
Learn some 3-string sweeps.
More importantly: learn to tie them together, and find out why they work together.

Scales gave birth to chords, chords gave birth to arpeggios and sweeps.

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