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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6484
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:14 am 
 

Xlxlx wrote:
Okay man, I'll take that into account. Now, back to vocal coaching; does anyone know how Peter Tagtgren screams like in this song at 3:31? Those ghoulish shrieks sound ridiculously unhealthy, yet he's been doing them for years without a problem. Can anyone enlighten me on how you are supposed to do that?

Lord Worm used to do those all the time (have you heard Open Face Surgery?). It may sound peculiar to you since here Tägtgren uses a distortion effect on the vocals.
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Xlxlx
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 5447
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:55 pm 
 

Yes, I am very familiar with Lord Worm's screams, although I was just listening to Bloodbath when I posted that, so I decided to mention Peter instead. And are you really sure about the use of effects? Besides a little echo added for dramatic purposes at the end of the scream, that is.

Also, I'm not even going to bother asking how Lord Worm did the Open Face Surgery scream. Human lungs are not supposed to carry that much air.
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garthmargengi
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:16 am
Posts: 482
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:14 pm 
 

I think you're exaggerating a bit too much, those shrieks are things several of other people has done as well; do breathing excercises, practice and you'll be able to pull them off (provided you already know how to growl/shriek or are even trying to do so), the trick is mostly on getting a good control of the airflow rather than holding lots of air in your lungs.
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Xlxlx
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 5447
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:18 pm 
 

Mmmmm..... I think I get you. And yes, I do both growls and screams, although I always thought that pulling off the kind of stuff Tägtgren and Greening do required some kind of natural talent. Glad to be wrong, so I'll work on it and see what happens.
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garthmargengi
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:16 am
Posts: 482
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:29 pm 
 

What they are doing there is way more controlled than it seems like, you need to lower the volume of your voice to keep your air (get closer to the mic to compensate) and use a high pitch that's comfortable to you, because, well, lower notes require more air to be produced.
By the way, don't practice this with growls, wouldn't want to end up straining your chords, do it with clean vocals singing a single note and trying to mantain it without any wobble.
Breathe slowly as much as you can, then a bit more, and then start singing that note without much volume (enough to be heard clearly, as if you were speaking) trying to keep it as long as you can, then again a bit more. Stop every now and then to rest or you'll get dizzy.
And well, those are the basics, best thing is actually getting a proffessional voice teacher to guide you, but that thing as small and simple as it seems will help a lot.
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Xlxlx
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
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Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:33 pm 
 

Thanks a lot for the advice garth, I'll really take it into account :thumbsup:
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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6484
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:16 pm 
 

Xlxlx wrote:
And are you really sure about the use of effects? Besides a little echo added for dramatic purposes at the end of the scream, that is.

It's indeed quite distorted, probably a post-production effect. Excessive brickwalling of vocal tracks creates distortion, though the sound of the distortion in that Tägtgren scream was quite reminiscent of Wrest's vocals in Leviathan where I recall he has admitted to using a distortion pedal in fact (though the level of distortion is not even nearly the same). Even holding the mic close while screaming loud creates distortion.
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IdiotFlesh
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:05 am
Posts: 1015
Location: New Hampshire
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:38 pm 
 

I'm sorry if this is a common question in the thread, but I really want to learn how to get the roaring style of growls that was so prevalent in the classic death metal bands of the early 90s.

Brutality has the type of growl that I'm looking for mostly. Not too deep, more natural sounding and easy to understand. Most importantly, I want to learn a style of growl that I can do without harming my voice. I'm going into college next year to be a music teacher, and I'll be doing a lot of classical and jazz singing along the way. Haha, how cool would it be to have a music teacher that occasionally gigs death metal?

I attempted growling once and I managed to get a pretty deep sound, but it's not what I want for a sound at all (it's more of a 'bree' type growl). You can hear my technique isn't very good towards the end.

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Necroticism174
Kite String Popper

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:46 pm
Posts: 4944
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:50 pm 
 

I used to be able to do about 3/4 of the open face surgery scream. It really is damn inhuman. What puzzles me is the power he puts in it dosen't falter in the least the whole way through.
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Suffersystem
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:31 pm
Posts: 922
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:34 pm 
 

How do i Napalm Death?

(i use bands as verbs a lot, weird habit, i mean how do i do what barney and Mitch do?)
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CorpseFister wrote:
Also, that vocal recording pic confirmed what I suspected: SLK records shirtless in a sweaty caveman-like delirium. You can almost hear the man stink in the recordings.

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Necroticism174
Kite String Popper

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:46 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:05 am 
 

I could be wrong but I think the key is doing your best "retard yell" and adding a lot of growl to it.
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Suffersystem
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:31 pm
Posts: 922
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:20 am 
 

Necroticism174 wrote:
I could be wrong but I think the key is doing your best "retard yell" and adding a lot of growl to it.


bahahaha probably.
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CorpseFister wrote:
Also, that vocal recording pic confirmed what I suspected: SLK records shirtless in a sweaty caveman-like delirium. You can almost hear the man stink in the recordings.

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Mastomodon
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:14 am
Posts: 13
Location: New Zealand
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:06 pm 
 

taking lessons at the moment with the vocal teacher at my college to get some metal screams down. He's pretty cool about it suprisingly... though his classroom does have a RATM and Amon Amarth poster...
Its pretty tough though, so far i am working on getting the volume of my normal yell down, because as of this moment i cant get my scream past that awkward bitch-ass whispering phase...
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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
Posts: 4555
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:46 pm 
 

Metal screams? You mean the clean razor sharp shrieking Rob Halford, Bruce Dickinson ect are famous for?

Working on Virgin Steele's ''Immortal I Stand''. The chorus is a bit of an issue at times and while I can sing it I can come off quite forced. My vocal coach is a christian and would figure out what the lyrics are about cause she doesn't want me to sing stuff she's against. Funny thing is, she mentioned I wouldn't have to sing christianity-related lyrics either while earlier she suggested me Dream Theater's ''I Walk Beside You'' which if I read correctly, is a song about christianity! Lame. :lol:

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Xlxlx
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 5447
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:21 pm 
 

colin040 wrote:
Metal screams? You mean the clean razor sharp shrieking Rob Halford, Bruce Dickinson ect are famous for?

I wish I could pull those off, but nooooooo, I have to be stuck with this baritone voice and shitty range :annoyed:

You guys should hear my falsettos. They're hilarious, although not in a good way.
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Necroticism174
Kite String Popper

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:46 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:25 pm 
 

Do you sound like Damien Storm's more badass brother?
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Xlxlx
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 5447
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:45 pm 
 

Pretty much, yeah. That's why I always stick to full voice; no matter how much I practice, my falsettos never get better. Don't get me wrong; I do really like my own voice, but I could use some more range, or at least a decent falsetto.....
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Necroticism174
Kite String Popper

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:46 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:45 pm 
 

Well Matt Barlow is a baritone and he unleashes some of the most epic high notes ever so I wouldn't give up just yet.
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Xlxlx
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 5447
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:12 pm 
 

High baritone, so his range overlaps with that of tenors. Also, he does that not only in falsetto, but also in full voice, so I've got no chance of reaching the heights of a man like him. I can quite stand up with him when it comes to my lower range though, as I struggle next to nothing to reach the deeper passages in Dante's Inferno's intro. That has to account for something.
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Necroticism174
Kite String Popper

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:46 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:15 pm 
 

I wasn't aware of that. You seem to know more about these things than I do. But hey, low vocals in metal are too rare anyways!
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Xlxlx
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
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Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:52 pm 
 

Yeah, that's true, so I guess I can take advantage of being a baritone. Also, I recommend you to take a look at this place, as it's been quite a bit useful for me in the past few months.
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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
Posts: 4555
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:58 am 
 

Well, you can train your voice you know. There's a vocal instructor on youtube named RocktheStage~ who's a bass-baritone vocalist. He demonstrates how to sing high notes, how to sing without straining, ect.

As for me, I too wish I was a tenor with a brighter tone but hey, a baritone with 3 octaves as a starting range aint bad either eh. ;) Guess I'm a high baritone; my low register sounds pretty full, but I don't find it all that comfortable at times. Belting high notes is very fun to do; currently my highest is a F5 so it's quite something for a baritone who hasn't got singing lessons for a long time yet. The cool thing is that my high notes don't have that muscled kind of sound some baritones have. Both light notes and aggressive shrieking is very fun to do...I'd say experiment with your voice and see what you can get out of it.

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Xlxlx
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 5447
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:51 pm 
 

A fucking F5, Colin?! That's, like, James LaBrie territory right there. Damn..... I might as well take some classes, then.
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Necroticism174
Kite String Popper

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:46 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:39 pm 
 

Do you have any recordings Colin? It would be cool to hear what you can do!
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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
Posts: 4555
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:54 pm 
 

Thanks people :)

Also, no I don't have any recording...though I'm planning to get a better mic soon and eventually record shit. Yeah, the range is nice. The funny thing is that once this dude asked how long it took me to get to that range I simply responded ''no idea''. All I can remember was singing as high as possible, with no warmup/exercise or anything and hey, it worked. During one of my first singing lessons I asked wether it was ok to try Dream Theater's ''Learning to Live'' F5# note and my teacher said I'm less than a half from it, so yeah it's pretty nice. I think my lowest note is about a...E2? Not sure about this one though.

My ''gifted'' range is cool and it's rare when I'm not able to belt some because of a bad vocal day or whatever but there's still things to work on. Currently actually learning how to sing in high register which I'd love to do as well.

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Necroticism174
Kite String Popper

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:46 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:02 pm 
 

That's cool man, looking forward to it. I'm a Tenor so I can sing some really high notes, but there are some notes that are pretty hard to get to just off the bat without warming up. Like, I can't just belt some of the intense notes in Steelheart's she's gone.
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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
Posts: 4555
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:14 pm 
 

Yeah, warming up is important and so is having a good day. :lol:

Honesty, there were times when I'd belt fluent 5th octave notes with very little effort at al... (think of 0:45 at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqiZvlu1ST8) and everything came just naturally without warming up too much. Times after I would think Ok! Today I'm gonna do a loooong and good warm up! while my voice just wouldn't be in shape and either my high register wouldn't be much there, or it would, but my tone would be weak so what I've learnt is to never plan when to sing a lot...notice how your voice feels first; then deicde how long to warm up, what exercises to do, ect or it won't be worth it.

Also, if it hurts, stop. I'm having a hard time to restrain myself from going nuts at times, but it would be worth it to damage your voice because you're going over the top.

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Necroticism174
Kite String Popper

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:46 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:36 pm 
 

Yeah, I've hurt my voice quite a few times by just randomly belting shit for like an hour straight with no warm up. You know, when the metal fever gets you. You seem to really like James Labrie eh? You use him as and Dream Theater songs as examples a lot.
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They were a band who understood music needed more explosions.

http://www.last.fm/user/TheEndTimeRiff
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Xlxlx
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 5447
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:43 pm 
 

James LaBrie was an absolutely terrific singer back in the day (listen to Live at the Marquee if ya don't believe me), but then came that fucking food poisoning..... That, and the fact he refused to stop singing for a while in order to rest his vocal chords. That sealed his fate. But up to 1993, he was a monster behind the mic, and would be one of my favorite metal singers ever if not because of his deterioration.
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Necroticism174
Kite String Popper

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:46 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:51 pm 
 

The only DT album I like is Awake. But yeah, he was pretty good on that. Not in my top 5 though.
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lord_ghengis about Vomitory splitting up wrote:
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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
Posts: 4555
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:58 pm 
 

Necroticism174 wrote:
You seem to really like James Labrie eh? You use him as and Dream Theater songs as examples a lot.


Well, I can nail some of his notes that's more likely why I use DT examples. :p

Honesty, he was pretty badass, as XXL mentioned. Some of his early-to mid 90's performances live were insane; the rasp he added sounded really vicious and powerful. Not sure if I'll mention him as one of my favourtes as I only really like his belting basically. Anyway, singers I really get inspired from include Tony Martin, Ronnie James Dio, and David Defeis. These are probably my favourites. Currently I'm able to sing some of the easier VS songs; songs like ''House of Dust'', ''Immortal I Stand'' and ''Visions of Eden'' are fun to do; not too hard but not low either. I'm also able to pull some of David Defeis' bersek screams off. Really requires focus though. :lol:

Anyway, songs that I'd love to master include Virgin Steele's ''I Will Come For You'' (already working on this, goes pretty decent) and ''Child of Desolation''. Other stuff I've had in mind would be Dio/Tony Martin era Black Sabbath and some older (live) Dream Theater stuff. :)

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Necroticism174
Kite String Popper

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:46 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:53 pm 
 

Finally got my voice back after it was messed up for a while. Celebrated by singing Painkiller. The ''Evil's going undah deadly WHEEEEEEELLLSSSSS'' part is my favourite thing to belt. Really cool rising note.
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lord_ghengis about Vomitory splitting up wrote:
They were a band who understood music needed more explosions.

http://www.last.fm/user/TheEndTimeRiff
http://halberddoom.bandcamp.com/releases

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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
Posts: 4555
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:24 pm 
 

Practiced ''Innocence Faded'' by Dream Theater. Honesty, the NOT intending! note is easier to sing than the verses that come before it.

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Xanzotire
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:49 am
Posts: 117
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 7:11 pm 
 

Does anyone have any tips on making lower pitched growls sound more monstrous? I think I'm ok on higher pitched shrieks and such, but when I try to go low it's kind of breathy and I can still hear a lot of my natural speaking voice. It's really depressing when you go for the 'unmentionable horror from beyond' sound and end up with more of an 'angry bloke with a bad cold' sound.
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MalignantTyrant
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:27 pm
Posts: 1175
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:42 pm 
 

*sigh*
I still cannot yell like George Fisher. . . maybe I just can't? Been like a month since I posted here & still no progress.
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Necroticism174
Kite String Popper

Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:46 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:27 pm 
 

I don't see how that's a bad thing as his vocals are pretty shitty :p
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lord_ghengis about Vomitory splitting up wrote:
They were a band who understood music needed more explosions.

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http://halberddoom.bandcamp.com/releases

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MalignantTyrant
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:27 pm
Posts: 1175
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:46 pm 
 

matter of opinion. . . .
you may not like his growling but those 30 second long screams he does are pretty damn legit. I think he rivals Tagtgren when it comes to high pitched yelling.
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StellarGraves
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:16 pm
Posts: 180
Location: Israel
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:54 pm 
 

MalignantTyrant wrote:
*sigh*
I still cannot yell like George Fisher. . . maybe I just can't? Been like a month since I posted here & still no progress.

Practice endlessly..

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Glentxa
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:30 am
Posts: 328
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:07 am 
 

Hi.

I've just started singing in a crust punk band and I'm aiming for a rapid-fire cross between Joel Grind of Toxic Holocaust and Wattie of The Exploited, with the odd growl thrown in. We've had two rehearsals so far and the first time my throat hurt a bit the next day and today after last night I can hardly speak. I thought I was using my diaphragm but obviously not...
I take it the best course of action is to drink lots of water, don't shout too loud and make sure I tense my stomach muscles to push air up?

Cheers.
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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6484
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:27 pm 
 

Even using the diaphragm for raspy yelling will take away your voice. Symphony X vocalist Russel Allen, who is known for his raspy and very powerful voice, said it's better not to use any technique in particular to achieve raspy tone; it should come naturally (he also said something about growlers probably using diaphragm for their singing, but that he doesn't have any diaphragm technique other than what normal singing requires). I can sing like Darren White, with growly tone but with good control of pitch (so, melodic raspy singing), but having shouted like that on metal gigs I've lost my voice just as much. It doesn't hurt, but it's clearly harmful with too much volume..
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