From Obituary, I'd rather listen to World Demise than to the 2 first albums.
I think early Death is OK, if you skip most of the parts between the solos.
I find Destruction, Sodom, Kreator and Dark Angel boring and generic, and I cannot bear more than 2 songs.
Even Hell Awaits grows weary on me when "Necrophiliac" begins.
Am I really a metalhead?

On the other hand, I praise Reign in Blood as an all-time-classic, I worship the production and playing of Seven Churches, I bang my head to Morbid Visions and I enjoy a full listen of Welcome to Hell.
I really feel there is an abyss between black and death metal, which was ultimately crossed at the end of the 80's, when the legacy of thrash metal was to be shared.

What I cannot understand is how some metalheads can like both black, death and thrash metal (I mean the whole subgenres)? Is it due to lack of exigence, or bound to a kind of showing off attitude?

I don´t get your point,but i love thrash,like some death metal (albums like Cause of Death,Litany,Unquestionable Pressence and Retribution are rad) but not as much as thrash,and i dislike black metal for the most part,can´t stand it very much.



It´s just that they like different forms of metal,there is nothing odd.But i don´t think that a metalhead should like all genres,there are some that don´t like power metal,as i don´t like black,and that´s ok.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but I don't think ANYONE really enjoys entire subgenres or even all of the so-called 'classics' attached to those genres.

I like black metal, but I find most Norwegian-styled stuff boring as hell, and I can't stand symphonic/melodic BM at all.
I like death metal, but I hate modern tech-death and br00tal death, and I ignore the fact that melodic death even exists.
I like thrash, but the whole Bay Area scene is overrated.

Nobody said it's required to like EVERYTHING to listen to any specific subgenre, brah.

Why not? I don't give a flying fuck about Hell Awaits, that makes me a 'bad' or 'lacking' metalhead?

About the liking of subgenres, I like bands from almost every metal subgenre, cause every genre has different things to offer. I like the crushing and sorrowful pace of doom, the brutality and atmosphere of death, the frenzy feeling of some thrash, the darkness and diversity of black, the complexity of prog, etc. You can find many of those elements in other subgenres as well.

What I don't get is why some people listen just 1 subgenre (with the exception of heavy metal, since there're people who can't get past harsh vocals or too fast music).

thats totally right i love thrash metal but when it comes to experimentation and progressive stuff death and black metal are the real deal,amazing bands in every subgenre.

No, you are not a metalhead. Please leave or we will have to have you removed.

That's cohesive with my point of view, the division between thrash/death metalheads and black metalheads.




I do, as far as traditional black metal is concerned.




I listen mainly to black metal, because it's the subgenre which is closest to my artistic sensibility. The other extreme metal subgenres do not touch me, with the exception of some bands/albums/songs.
I wonder if it's a question of habit or prejudice.

Well they are all connected in a way. Thrash made death and black metal. You are very ignorant if you don't think that. Dagon of Inquisition talks about this.

Not liking certain genres has nothing to do with your metal credentials. You just don't like it. Whatever.

Seriously? So people who like more than one metal genre are posers?

Black, death and thrash metal all have common threads and styles, just in the same way that all bands within a sub genre do despite all being somewhat unique. I don't know what is so difficult to understand about that.

I understood everything in your post up until this point:



It doesn't seem to me that your likes and dislikes are based upon subgenres at all, but upon a band by band, album by album basis. This is actually as it should be. So what are you asking? BTW I think Hell Awaits is the closest thing to "extreme" metal that SLayer ever did....it also happens to be my favourite Slayer album, but the two facts are not exactly related.

For a variety of reasons I've moved from the early bands/albums/genres you discusses in the OP. I had always been seeking the heaviest music I could find - from Black Sabbath's Live Evil to Slayer's Hell Awaits and others such as Bonded By Blood and Seven Churches. I also liked Bathory quite a bit but never as much as Celtic Frost.

Today, I like Thrash less than back then in part because it's usually not as heavy as Death Metal or Brutal Death Metal. Bands like Hail Of Bullets and Deivos do it for me like Desctruction's Infernal Overkill did it for me when it came out.

However, I'm not really into Black Metal. Goatwhore is good and I recently saw them live and was very happy I did. That said, generally I don't listen to much Black Metal. Some bands that incorporate some Black Metal elements I like and some Thrash such as Solstice and Vektor I like (others, too), along with the old-school Thrash I've always liked (Sodom, Kreator, etc.). I just don't follow Black Metal much for any other reason than I like Death Metal and Thrash Metal better. Black Metal doesn't have the same aggression, heavy riffing, and brutal production that I find with the majority of DM bands. Vocals are an important factor, as well. Screamed singing and clean vocals are styles I'd rather avoid, mostly. Not liking Black Metal has nothing to do with 'attitude', 'being one of the cool kids' or whatever other bullshit. I like what I like and that happens to be very little of Black Metal. There does seem to be an air of pretension about (some?) Black Metal fans, but I really don't care.

In fact, I like a lot of 'unliked' bands around the general metal populace, such as Lamb Of God or Psycroptic, though less-so in recent years. I like a lot of Brutal Death Metal stuff, such as Abysmal Torment, Abominable Putridity, Abnormity, and 7 H. Target and listen to a lot of stuff like that, which is rarely discussion material around here. And, I don't much like some well-liked bands, such as Behemoth, for example.

It boils down to: I like what I like. I don't have to like anything for any reason or not like something for some reason. I like what I like.

You listen to a lot of metal so sure. There are no bands or albums that every metalhead must like to fit into that category. I have no idea why that fact would be difficult to grasp.

I never knew there some rules to liking music. I like a wide variety of stuff including thrash, power, death, brutal death, melodic death, just about any form of black, doom, progressive, traditional, and different combinations (e.g. blackened thrash etc.). I also like classical, jazz, rock and other genres. If a band is good then I will listen to them, who cares what genre they are.

I own no Death albums. I'm not into Obituary or old Morbid Angel. I listen to no thrash. What's the problem? I like all forms of death metal, so I'm a metalhead.

Not really. I can't think of a single Scandinavian 90's BM classic that I dislike. Of course I don't know all of them yet, but at least most of them.




I'll try to explain myself. Every subgenre has a limited lifespan, and represents a tendency chosen by some actors of a musical genre. For instance, death metal bands chose to emphasize low and high frequencies, technicity and brutality, while black metal bands chose to emphasize mid frequencies, atmosphere and gloominess. Of course, many bands borrowed elements from both subgenres, but you can still find albums that represent a subgenre in its purest form: De Mysteriis dom Sathanas for black metal, Leprosy for death metal and Reign in Blood for thrash metal, for example.
Assuming a subgenre is defined by an artistic direction, some bands choose to further the direction, until they come to a dead end and stop (because music is limited by human capacities), and then you can consider the subgenre as dead. So is thrash metal today, but you can still find new bands who play old-school thrash, called retro-thrash.
Other bands choose to stagnate or to go backwards, because they don't care about artistic evolution. Those who go backwards can also be called retro.
I consider that death metal took all the technical elements from thrash (speed, brutality, technicity...) and pushed them further, until the human limits. But thrash was a bastard and immature subgenre, so death metal ended born dead. Black metal kept some thrash elements, but grew deeper and deeper as it matured in the 90's. In the end of the 90's it also came to a dead end, but I think it's not a coincidence if most Scandinavian black metal bands had begun their musical career as death metal bands. They had left the sinking death metal ship to rejoin something more dynamic.




I love that album, but grow tired after 20 minutes of listening. I think Reign in Blood largely surpasses it in terms of production, songwriting and impact because it is shorter (though I could easily skip "Epidemic" and "Postmortem" without regret).

Your whole argument is based on opinion. I think I can speak for most of us when I say I don't believe OSDM, for example, is dead. Just look at the 'retro' bands posted in that old OSDM revival thread--they are bad because they haven't evolved? Yeah, well, y'know, that's just, like, your opinion, man

i'm fairly certain that every (sub-)genre that has ever existed in any meaningful capacity, is still being made by people today - aka. there are no "dead" genres

also, it's not like power metal and death metal (for example) are competing entities like ford and honda

It's not because Latin is still speaked in certain places (in the Vatican for example) that it's not a dead language.

My only requirement for music is that it be good. I don't care if it's funeral doom or prog or neothrash or tech/death or whatever. If an artist falls within the parameters of a genre or subgenre that I favor, but said artist sucks, then piss on 'em, I won't waste my time. Life's way too short.

You're right. Only quality matters.
But I am really reluctant to some genres, like jazz for instance, at least in my normal state of mind.

How do you define "classic"? An album you consider legendary?

"No, that other album isn't a classic even if some say it is, it's complete crap!"

An album which features all the characteristics of a subgenre at a certain time, thus becoming a reference for the future generation of listeners.




Me and a majority (or at least a representative number) of experts of the said subgenre.

Hmm.. no.

I'm into more 90s Norwegian and Swedish styles and the recent French stuff, but I don't like that stuff for the same reasons I like the Death(OSDM, Death/Doom, Nile) and Thrash(Bay area, Teutonic, Tech-Thrash) I like. My love for Venom obviously fits more in with the thrash stuff and my love of Bathory fits more with the Scandanavian stuff... Not to into the Finnish or Bestial/War stuff which is what most primarily Thrash/Death guys are into I find. I relate my BM more to my favourite Doom(Wounded Kings, Reverend Bizarre/Spirituis Mortis and Funeral Doom, I love all things Doom but in terms of what kind gets me most often) as I feel there's an evil, yet emotional(mostly gloomy and cold but) atmosphere those bands and substyles share.

So, you still have to like it for it to be considered a classic? So, what you're saying is that you can't think of a single album you like that you dislike? I feel the same way, man!

What a stupid thread.

i don't really like the first 3 bands either, but Dark Angel?! have you heard Leave Scars?!

Have you heard Pleasure to Kill???

Just listen to what you like, not what people say you should like.

Dark Angel is generic and boring. Pleasure to Kill is over-rated. 99.7% of black metal is worthless garbage. Who gives a shit?

I don't listen to music to please you, but to please myself.

I listen to black, thrash, power, progressive, folk, gothic, traditional, epic, doom, atmospheric, and death metal (yes, ALL 11 of those) just to show off how cool I am. Damn, who even needs an air conditioner, this bitch is gettin' frigid.

yeah man, definitely

why are you even posting on a metal forum?

Yes, I like 2 or 3 songs ("Pleasure to Kill", "Ripping Corpse"), but not more.

That was for dreadmeat.

Hear, hear. This has been a spectacularly pointless thread. And no one, anywhere, has gained anything from it.

Who cares? Your listening habits should be based on your own taste and opinion not other people's.

I gained the knowledge that some people, somewhere, find Dark Angel boring and generic.

At least two reviewers do so. Read the reviews of Darkness Descends.

When that album was released there wasn't much else out there that was as good. Comparing it to what's out there now is completely different. I'd be hard-pressed to find 5 or 10 albums better within the genre (or even in any genre, for me) at the time of Darkness Descends being released that could be considered 'better', and even that might be a stretch (5 or 10? more like 4 or 5!). Sure, it's not all that when comparing to the decades of options you have of listening to; bands that have emerged; and how music has developed since that time, but at the time it was one of the best albums out there.

Oh, and Pleasure To Kill is one of the best thrash albums ever made, IMO. I probably feel that way because I had it when it came out and it was at the top of the Thrash genre in existence at the time. If you didn't grow up on it, you probably don't like it as much. That part I think I can understand, but c'mon man. It's a classic if their ever was one and, IMO, Kreator's best album still.

1) Slayer - Reign in Blood
2) Sepultura - Morbid Visions
3) Celtic Frost - Emperor's Return
4) Possessed - Seven Churches
5) Sodom - In the Sign of Evil

Please note that I'm not a thrash metal metal expert, I'm only quoting albums that I already know within the subgenre here. You can add early Bulldözer and early Bathory in the field of black/thrash.
Not even speaking about the year 1987, when the extreme metal underground literally burst out.




Oh yes, nostalgy is an important factor. But most 1980's thrash classics have grown really old in terms of production, sound and playing. Such is not the case of Reign in Blood, which remains unmatched (and unmatchable in my opinion) until this day.

This is why I said that every subgenre has a limited lifespan.