Atheists *are* smarter than non-atheists. And democrats are the furthest left wing people allowed on TV, and by virtue of that are automatically the smartest people on TV. So him evincing that perspective isn't wrong, per se.

Just my perspective, of course...

Ah, please leave politics out of the TV thread, folks.

I'm not discussing whether or not he is right, I don't want this to get political, either... I was just saying that I've heard him and other atheists preach about how atheism is the way be, to the point of persecution. Being an atheist doesn't mean you have to shamelessly promote your beliefs. It makes you no better than the christians that you are mocking. I just don't get why religious views have to equal up to pissing contests.

Anyways... I hope Dexter gets wrapped up soon. The first couple seasons were good, then it got kind of bland, the latest season ended pretty strong.. I think now would be a good time to get the last season going then cash out.

I also heard House is on its last season.. I haven't watched it since season 4 though, so it doesn't really matter to me, it got old ages ago.

TIL there were Mortal Kombat and Total Recall tv series in the 90s.

Lately i've been watching Unsolved Mysteries and fucking loving every minute on it. Classic show. On a related note I managed to get the entire original Twilight Zone, as well as The Outer Limits, and will be working on finding a whole host more 70s/80s/90s horror anthology shows. Freddy's Nightmares etc. Any fans of Tales from the Crypt, and horror anthology/horror type shows? I love em.

Yeah this season of house is the shittiest thing ever.

No way, last episode with Park tripping balls and House's mother was hilarious awesomeness.

To be honest, I stopped watching it a few episodes ago cause it was going nowhere. Which is really disappointing, I've been a fan from the start.

Nah, season seven was worse. House being in a relationship just turned him into a pansy, and what's the point of watching House if he's not going to be a complete asshole to everyone?

Current season's actually pretty decent in my opinion, none of the team is too insufferable, I actually kind of like Adams and Park. At least House finally has some decent eye candy on his team (Adams). Seriously though, both the characters are pretty interesting, and Chase and Foreman have always been fun. No it doesn't stand up to say, season two, but I definitely like it so far.

I have never watched a House episode. Ever. I actively try to avoid hospital series. The mere idea of it has been ruined for me by Scrubs and (a single) greys anatomy episode.

Hospital shows are definitely the most played out thing ever. I'd probably nominate Green Wing as the only good one ever made. Children's Hospital has some great actors and stuff, but is a bit weird.

Has anyone seen Black Mirror? I just finished the first episode with the hostage crisis. This, from i have seen, crosses from tragedy to farce due to its extreme nature while outlining the dark undercurrent of our technological and cyberspatial world.

I got Black Mirror off a friend a month or two ago. I tried watching the first episode but just couldn't really get into it. It seemed a bit samey, and didn't really capture my attention much. I'll give it one more shot, hope i can get into it next time.

I've enjoyed every season of House up until this last one - however, I have enjoyed a few select episodes from this season, such as the one you mentioned and the one where Chase got stabbed and subsequently fucked a (future) nun.

He is a bully. I agree. But his panels are awesome, and he makes some good points too when he's not excessively bashing conservative and religious people.

What value is there in pretending that religion et/all isn't retarded? I don't watch Maher's show, but based on this info I'll now check it out since it's nice to see someone willing to get confrontational in the face of stupidity.

What's the point?

Is he going to convert religious people to rational thinking? No.

I think conservative/fundamentalist religion is intellectually offensive, but what's the point of going around smacking people in the face? It serves no constructive purpose. I will engage in civil debate if they want, because if they want then that might mean they're open to other ideas, but typically I avoid the subject altogether because of staunch, stubborn positioning. Maher goes overboard. He's preaching to the choir. The choir already gets it and the opposition is deaf; he's wasting his breath.

I'm a religious studies minor by the way.

Undermining paradigms of ignorance and religion-based rationale is great in my book, but when you go about it like a furiously pretentious douchebag you tend to undermine your own cause in the process.

By keeping opposition to religion constantly in the public mind it normalizes anti-religious sentiment. The more normal it is perceived to be, ultimately the more accepted it will become.

I understand completely, I was skeptical at first but I enjoyed House's antics so far. In fact I give zero shit about the actual "hospital/medical" drama and the patients, I just watch the show for House being House, he never fails to entertain me.

Opposition to religion != hostile bashing of religion. He doesn't measure himself, he doesn't make civil arguments. He's a fucking cartoon when it comes to his hatred of religion. Oh look at you, you can make fun of the fact that they believe in a talking snake. You're so sophisticated and your poignant criticism is going to change the world.

And besides, religion is a vast subject, and not all religion is bad. The underlying psychological principle behind religion is basically an emotional state. Scientists can be "religious" about the natural world, many are. Maher is against Christianity and other closed-minded organized religions, I understand that, but his methods are bullying and people who aren't dicks aren't going to side with him. And you shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater, to use a lame metaphor. I think Buddhism and Taoism are great religions that promote positive psychological and social things without being anti-intellect or science or reason or reality (parts of Hinduism as well).

Civil arguments are unnecessary and pointless. You said yourself, he's not going to make religious people "see the light" no matter what, and intelligent atheists already know, both instinctively and intellectually why religion is stupid. Thus, keeping the hostility up presents opposition to religion to religious people in a way they can fully comprehend, and being that they can't do anything about it, they'll learn to live with it. Later their learn to live with greater irreligious policy carried out by an emboldened, more thoroughly atheistic populace.

Bill Maher's practically a Bill O'Reilly for liberals. If I was looking for someone to represent my side of the religion debate I'd choose someone that didn't make themself look like a goddamn retard while doing it. Maher's overall agenda might be aimed more or less correctly, but as an ambassador for atheism he's fucking garbage.

Being overtly hostile to religious people simply because they are religious is obnoxious and childish. No, we should not tolerate religion in our legal system. That does not mean we have any sort of imperative to antagonize those who practice their religion in a reasonable, unobtrusive way.

I'm willing to bet 100,000,000,000,000 dollars that the comparison to O'Reily is vastly overblown, as are every single complaint I've ever heard about some notable atheist being overly hostile to religious people. I'm completely sure that he simply told things how they were (to whatever degree TV personalities can), cracked a few jokes, and didn't immediately accept the religious folks' framing of whatever issue was at hand. Same as it always is...

Also, hilarious that you've said that he's a comedian yet bust him for not being an absolutely serene ambassador of pure atheist stoicism.

EitherF, religious influence on our legal system flows from religious influence on our culture. To erase it's influence from the one we must erode it's influence on the other. Obviously I'm not saying you should get confrontational with random people or people you know, but online, on a TV talk show, and other places where the normal standards of maintaining polite discourse are more relaxed for the purposes of facilitating sensationalism and entertainment are excellent places to push the envelope in this regard and get the principles of atheism, secularism and anti-theism firmly planted in the minds of theists and atheists as normal, common and acceptable (and hopefully desirable).

John, why don't you actually just watch some Maher material and then come back to this. Basing your standpoint on sheer speculation isn't very productive.

My only real problem with Bill Maher is that he acts like a fucking dickhead. He presents an odious caricature of liberal thinking, just like Bill O'Reilly on the other side of the coin (or the bill...), filled with almost just as much arrogance and egotism. His efforts don't so much entrench the principles of atheism, secularism, and anti-theism in the common consciousness as normal and acceptable so much as simply correlate those principles with embarrassing people. People don't look at Bill Maher and say, "that's the voice of the mainstream," they say "that's Bill Maher doing his liberal shtick."

Anyways...

In relation to TV shows: I've been watching a bit of Malcolm In the Middle lately. I used to watch it occasionally when it first came out, it's still pretty funny for the most part. Hal is definitely my favorite character, all the outrageous situations he winds up in because of his obsessive behavior/personality/everything.

I love that show and Hal is definitely the reason for it. It's great to see Bryan Cranston finally get some recognition due to Breaking Bad.

Yeah, my cousin and I were talking about Malcolm In the Middle a few months ago and she referred to Bryan Cranston as a B-list actor. I laughed and said that she obviously hadn't seen Breaking Bad yet.

I used to watch that show a little when i was young and would come home for dinner - it was always on around then. I used to think it was watchable, probably would hate it now. Bryan Cranston was definitely good on it. Some of you may remember him as Dr. Tim Whatley on Seinfeld, prior to that role. He kills it in Breaking Bad i agree.

I"ve seen clips of Maher's show, both the monologue part and the roundtable part. I just don't see whatever it is you guys are seeing that makes him so bad. He's obviously looking to crack jokes which are derived from his world view and he is a bit dry, but that's it. Less satirical, but on the same axis as Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert.

Perhaps you guys could point me to some "worst of" clips?

Maher's an asshole, no doubt. While I didn't agree with Hitchens's position on Iran, I sure as hell loved his style on Maher's show.

That said, here's some X-Files bloopers. WARNING: Contagious laughter.

Er, that is what's at doubt, Dabbadoo, the whole premise of the discussion we've been having is me doubting he's an asshole.

Anyway, can't check that vid atm, but later tonight (if it is intended to be the evidence I was asking for).

Only because of his hostile, uncivil approach. NO ONE likes being attacked, and it causes people to raise their defenses and go "la la la la la la la."

I'm not saying civil debate will in all (or most, or even a lot of) cases be able to "convert" a religious person, but the likelihood is infinitely higher than telling them they're stupid, which is what Bill Maher does. I was a Christian until about age 15 or 16, and what did me over was a number of things, but a pretty big part of it was talking to atheists and other very smart people who acknowledged that I was smart too and tried to show me without any assholeish tendencies or intentions that what I believed didn't make sense. The people who came at me arms flailing? I fought back tooth and nail and neither of us got anywhere.

Watch his movie Religulous.

I've seen Religulous. It's okay, not very good. I'm trying to avoid weighing in on this discussion, but i kinda agree with both sides, but more with Johnny boy here. Bill Maher is a bit forward, and tactless at times though, but i think religious morons deserve all the abuse they get. They had their time, now it's our fucking time to persecute them. Far worse stuff has and is being done in their name, then a few rather blunt remarks by a TV panelist. They should take their fucking medicine, in all honesty. I have no compassion or feeling toward them.

You act like the religious people who persecuted nonreligious people are the same ones alive today. Do you also think white people should bend over and take it from black people because of that whole slavery thing?

I've been through my hostile-towards-religion phase. It was necessary, I guess, but nowadays I'm more interested in showing people they're wrong and changing minds than "winning" and making them feel inferior.

I don't act hostile or try to change anyone. I don't give a shit about converting them, they can waste their lives for all i care. I just think they're ridiculous. I never get involved in these discussions online, here or elsewhere.

That's really not true at all. Studies have come out indicating that the more people who hold inherently irrational views like religion are informed about the issues the harder they stick to their irrational views. The main reason why this is so seems to be the greater capacity to manipulate evidence to themselves (and others) that greater education and understanding in a general sense give them to apply to this specific instance where the particular issue is usually something they consider an integral part of their self image.

So being calm and reasoned and abiding by formal debate rules doesn't have any positive benefit, making fun of them is more entertaining, and it's more likely to work on low information viewers who are susceptible to appeals to things other than iron clad logic (I only said "no matter what" in reference to what you were saying, since I believe there are ways to lead people towards a more rational world view by means other than guidance of reason).

Just saw the new episode of Archer. What a great show. Jon Benjamin is one my favourite voice actors.

I honestly wonder why you don't like Metalocalypse. Whereas Tim and Eric Awesome Show Great Job! is instantly a love or hate mentality, Metalocalypse doesn't seem like a show to hate. I mean, the later episodes get too much into the whole "Adult Swim" mentality of being weird and awkward, but the first season? I find it hard to be a metalhead and not find it funny when the band accidentally summons a lake troll that destroys finland: "High school would be so cool with a big pal like him! He could've carried me to school!"

But hey, what works for some may not work for others. And Spongebob is the best kid's show ever, and I don't even really consider it a kid's show.

Metalocalypse was a good show when they stuck to the 15 minute format. I mean, the silly jokes, stereotypes, and accents are fun as hell, but too much of it can definitely hurt.

On a side note, I haven't watched TV in a good couple of months.