I don't think we can compare guns with drugs. Breivik could get the guns to do the killing, but how many shootings actually happened in Norway in the last couple of years? Versus the US? I think it speaks volumes. In Norway, you have to get guns the hard way, you have to really want them and have contacts. In the US, guns are everywhere, kids can take their dad's gun and do stupid things with it like it already happened on more than one occasions. And it's also known that having a gun doesn't make you safer, often people don't know how to react to a real threat. Not only that, but it is known that having more guns makes people using them more likely too. Yes it can save your life, but too often it's just an illusion of being safer, if anything it only makes it more dangerous as proved by the numerous shootings in the US. We can also talk of Japan where you basically can't get guns unless you're a Yakuza, and massacres are shortlived because of that. You can go far killing people with a knife, rather than a gun.

Drugs are not dangerous in themselves, it's not a weapon, it's something to make people feel better, so the market for drugs is much, much bigger. In that case, prohibiting drugs only perpetuate organized crime. But when guns are prohibited, only real criminals get them, the market gets much smaller. You're not going to deal with organized crime to get a weapon to defend yourself as a good citizen, would you?

Been saying this for quite a long time myself

Per capita, that's quite debateable. School shootings in the US are widely publicized but, not to sound callous, but they're an over-sensationalized drop in the bucket. They make for a good news story, like terrorism. Yes terrorists are bad, but that hardly means we should ban fertilizer, just because it could be made into a bomb. Anders Breivik killed way more people than pretty much every famous school shooting that's happened in the US combined. The thing is you can't wave a magic wand and make guns in the US go away; they're here. They're being smuggled into the US in large numbers constantly. Prohibiting them means you're just taking them away from law-abiding people, which isn't a good thing. It's already illegal to sell handguns to criminals. The number of people who have legally owned handguns in the US and committed crimes with them is miniscule.


Why is taking guns away from good citizens a good thing?

And why is it a bad thing to prohibit them? If anything a criminal is going to be more trigger happy towards a good citizen who has a weapon than one who has no weapon or doesn't show it, in general they are more trigger-happy against each other than some random dude. And like I said, people in general don't know how to react to a real threat, not everyone got army training. Even if legit weapons are minimal in gun-related crimes, they're still there and contribute. Guns is just an illusion of protection. It might help, but for all the good it can do, it does more wrong, and that's what is important. And it's not because weapons are quite present in the US that nothing can be done against it. A big action could cost a lot of money (fighting against smuggling counting here), but I think it would be helpful in the long run. The US gun-related death rate is 10.27 per 100 000 population, while Japan's is 0.07 (and I'd bet 95% of them are Yakuza's getting killed, or people dealing with them) - Wikipedia's numbers dating from a couple of years. It would require a lot of time for the situation to change, but attempting nothing seems defeatist to me.

Says who? This is all pure speculation on your part.


Except you totally missed the main point I made initially; simply comparing Japan's rate of gun violence to the US's and concluding that guns = bad is totally misleading. I'm sure the US has way higher knife-related violence than Japan, too. The gun violence is more a symptom of socioeconomic issues, and it's much, much more complicated than 'guns cause violence'. I think things like universal health care, social programs targeting the marginalized in society, ending the absurd war on drugs, and limiting the US's draconian prison system would be much more effective at combating gun violence. The fault lies way more with the bullshit 'sink-or-swim' mentality in the US coupled with an extremely harsh punishment system, which fosters this kind of extreme alienation and resentment in people, not guns being around in general.

I'm not saying guns cause violence, only that guns kill. And that guns are the most dangerous weapons used to kill. I'd feel way safer in a country where criminals kill with knives rather than guns. I'm not saying that restricting guns is the only solution against violent crimes either, as I agree with you that it's also a socioeconomic issue. It's just that restricting guns can only do more good than wrong. Japan's rate is not just lower, it's one of the lowest in the world, yet crimes are not completely absent either.

I'm all for Second Amendment rights but I do agree that guns are far too easy to get for the wrong people.

Off topic but is it immature/not adult of me to not want to attend a funeral because I don't like funerals? People would probably criticize me but I truly don't like going to funerals and seeing people sad.

I wouldn't be against much better gun control when it comes to handguns; handgun licenses especially really ought to be treated like driver's licenses, with a test you have to pass when it comes to proper safety, storage, use, etc.

In a very extreme situation where no one excepting the army and cops can use guns, the homicides and other crimes involving guns will decrease or the delinquents will use what they could get at hand (knives and stuff like that) which are by definition less mortal than a bullet in your head. You have some chance to defend yourself from a guy with a knife or a bat, but you don't stand much of a chance if someone is targetting you with a shotgun.

It's selfish but I think most honest people will admit to feeling the same way. Who the fuck actually WANTS to go to a funeral? Still, if it was for someone close enough that you feel obligated to be there, you probably should be there.

Adding even more red-tape and government hoop-jumping to buying firearms is appealing because its easy, but I thought they had steadily been doing that for years with no real results to show? It's the same problem that it's always been, and FSM laid it out already: How do you stop CRIMINALS from obtaining guns ILLEGALLY? There is no quick or easy solution to this problem. And I'd rather not see our government wage a "war on guns"...you know how our "war on" 's usually turn out...

I don't like funerals either, when I die it's in my will to throw a party instead because fuck standards.
ALSO My nephew is on his way to a full recovery, they're are still going to hold him a while but they say he is doing very well.

Just because its the 21st century doesn't mean the threat of militant oppression has miraculously disappeared. The government can eavesdrop on your online activity, see that you listen to Watain, and detain you for suspecting you're involved in a "Satanic cult". If the lines for individual rights aren't clearly defined, they will continue to be pushed back further and further and the complacent population will never stand up for themselves. So yes, I do believe the second amendment is every bit as relevant today as it was 300+ years ago. You truly are helpless without access to lethal weapons.

I have a question: it's true that in the US you can buy a gun even in a supermarket? if that's true, no wonder how easy people get guns.

Its true. Some Walmarts here sell guns.

Yeah, dude, I felt like there was so much hype over their demos (deserved hype, mind you) and then I didn't hear anything about them releasing a full length. I stumbled across a review of it on some blog and was so excited, it's pretty great.

Also, I only buy my guns from Safeway. Seems...safer?

Surely you're not dumb enough to believe all you do is walk up and say "One gun please!" and hand them the money. There are still checks and procedures you have to pass.

A person with convicted priors cannot walk in and easily purchase a weapon. These people are obtaining unregistered weapons with scratched off serials from the streets. That's where it becomes tricky to regulate/stop.

I live ten minutes from the outskirts of Detroit. I can go in there with $150 and get a handgun of some kind.

Why? it doesn't make sense to me. If you want to avoid killings, one thing that's fairly obvious is to put the guns as away as possible from the average Joe.

Here you have just a few stores which sell guns but to get one you need to get:

-permission from Police/Defense first where they make an interview to justify why in hell they will allow you to have one,
-To document your need of a gun - about your business and stuff like that
-To have a psychrist examination where the guy says you're able to manage and use a gun
-To have an address certificate given by the Police.

The permission last 1 year, then you have to do all over again every year.

How it's this subject in US laws?

So you'd rather be stabbed than shot?

And about Japan, it's worth noting that Japan is JAPAN. It's culture is so vastly different from america and much of the western world that it's rather unfair to compare them.

And yeah guns kill, so what? I could kill a man with a fucking ballpoint pen, should we make those illegal just because the average joe can fatally stab someone in the throat with one if he has the mind to? I'm of the opinion that if someone has already completely made up their mind to kill somebody, chances are they're gonna do it, whether you outlaw guns or not.

As someone who works at Wal-Mart, I can tell you right now that you can't just waltz into the store and expect to buy a gun, there's a lot of procedure to follow and it's fairly strict. It's not like there's shotguns just sitting on the shelf next to cordless drills or something.

But guns are MADE to kill, that's a huge difference.

Its different to kill a person with a knife then a gun. Anyone can point and pull a trigger. Also its not like people buy guns to solely kill people. Most people don't want to kill people because that is just something you can get locked up for/they don't ever want to but buy them just in case something happens. Its like an alarm system. You guys make people who own/buy guns look like bloodthirsty killers when its not true.

If someone breaks into your house why do people call the cops? Because they have guns, not because they have tazers or billyclubs. Its a sense of protection. In the wrong hands, guns are bad but so are a lot of things. People have the right to be armed and if you disagree you are a leftist pinko bastard.

Handguns are especially easy to get. I used to live in the bad side of town when I was in Seattle and on multiple occasions I have witnessed people purchasing them on street corners and the like.

I was wondering about those procedures, how do you manage that in US? I don't think it's like to take a pizza off a shelf, but it's still pretty weird to have guns in places where everyone attend/use all the time. I also wonder how much robbery are in those Walmarts and how much guns are taken from those stores in this way.

Walmarts are big as fuck, have security and have multiple cameras and are the backbone of many communities. People are not fucking with Walmart and stealing their guns.

The guns are locked up extremely tight, and usually at the very back of the store completely away from cash registers at the front. I highly doubt there have been (m)any raids on Wal-mart for people stealing guns, you'd have like a mile walk just to get in/out of the place. You can't purchase a handgun if you're under 21 (I believe). A purchase of ANY weapon gets you an instant background check run through the local police, and your information sent to the ATF for...some reason? I'm not going to pretend to be intimate with the ins and outs of the process but I will reiterate that PEOPLE BUYING WEAPONS LEGALLY IN STORES IS NOT THE SOURCE OF THE PROBLEM.

I'm not a leftlist or something, but I prefer that no one has the 'right' of having guns that every fucker can. I honestly think that the responsible/good people is the less in this world.

Nice to know, and that's what I expected. I also think the problem is not Walmart of the stablished commerce, there are deep social problems which requires many, many changes, investment, blood, sweat and time to fix.

Edit: here it's very, very rare to see a real gun, let alone in a supermarket or something like that. There are many delinquents that have guns (made-up or real ones, many brought in Peru, Bolivia and Brazil, others bought internally) and definitely there are killings with guns, but it's not something of everyday/moment to hear gunshots or stuff like that. Also, people here it's not used to the presence of guns as you may seem. Just different cultures/realities I guess.

I do consider myself somewhat a leftist, but pushing for more gun control is just an easy, ineffective, and potentially dangerous band-aid for a much bigger problem.

But there are much easier ways to do that then limit guns. As said before, its not the legal guns that are the issue, its the people who should be able to have guns that are getting them illegally.

There seems to be a pretty interesting international picture of what it's like here, as if we're still on some "cowboy shit" with everyone packing a six shooter on their hip. I can count the number of times I've heard gunfire in my day-to-day life on zero fingers. That being said, I also have never lived in the poverty stricken ghettos and Section 8 housing areas where this type of thing is more frequent. But even there its still a complete misnomer to say that its a daily thing.

The Wire and rap music are not real life.

For anyone who was an Iron Maiden fan in 2003, what the hell was your reaction when the Dance of Death album cover was revealed? I think there should already be a re-issue with different artwork.

Enough to convince me not to purchase it. I bought Killers instead.

I'm thinking back to 2003 and still believing that DoD looked incredibly dated even then. It looks like a Myst screenshot circa 1995.

Who played last? I'm glad you enjoyed the gig.

Maybe it's just the media problem who just is focused on showing the shit off your place... but no, no one is saying that the US = wild wild west or gangsta's paradise :lol; still the overall impression many people outside US has is that the violence level is not low by any means, especially compared with way smaller countries as mine (which is a factor of the less violent ratio).

I do know some very poor districts (for job issues) but still the level of violence it's not that shocking and frequent as it may seem to be there (notice that I use the word seem, I don't take it as a fact).

So I was just listening to the song "Demigod" by The Monolith Deathcult and the melody thats used in an Immortal Technique song and the song that Jay-z and Nas did together when their feud ended emerged as part of the song. Totally took me by surprise.

As for the gun issue, its I'm still not sure were I stand on this one. On one hand I think that people should be able to carry guns for protection, but there are people that I definitely do not want to own a gun, especially legally. As already mentioned, people who really want it will get it illegally regardless of law, and those people shouldn't take away the rights of people who are not criminals and only wan't it for protection. Were I live people are not allowed to have handguns while out in public, so I'm completely ignorant to the culture of a place where people frequently carry handguns in public.

I guess you've never been to a true Irish wake before, have you? Some funerals do include parties.

Pongpenis, if you really want an answer to the question about the funeral, ask yourself how much you care about the people who will be attending and how they're feeling. Funerals aren't for the deceased, obviously...they're for those left behind.

On the gun issue, I'm kind of in agreement with Johnny, but simultaneously recognise the danger and apparent impracticality of taking Americans' guns away from them. There's an important thing that people have to remember: Once you've given somebody toys/tools/apparently beneficial boons, you can't just go on a hundred years later and say, "oops, that was actually a mistake; we have to take these away from you now". Yes, walking in a town where any cranky old lady driver or pissy teen or fuming senile idiot might have a gun does not make me feel remotely safe. yes, I'd rather guns be prohibited. But, they won't be, and I suppose it's better that those who need to be protected have the means with which they can protect themselves, now that those means are indellibly entrenched within the society.

Well, I have lived in "the hood" and while gunshots are not an everyday thing they are more common than you play them out to be. Violence and crime are a daily thing where I was from. People would get mugged on 14th st near the bus station, and prostitution was rampant throughout the entire neighborhood. Not to mention how easy it is to get hard drugs such as Crystal Meth, and Heroin. On one occasion someone had pointed a pistol at me while I was attempting to cross the street.