I was inspired by this fascinating little article (as well as the comments below), on vinyl and CD myths refusing to die:
http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-blog ... use-to-die

This is a tired debate but I would like to see some real arguments put into play here for both sides.

Personally, I prefer the ease of convenience of the CD, as well as the fact that unlike vinyl the CD accurately represents the recording source it was mastered on. I have never really understood what was all this fascination with the vinyl format having "warmer" sound when really it is nothing more than surface noise (pops, crackles, hisses, etc.) which continues to increase the more it is played.

Vinyl seems to really be the "in" thing for many young hipsters who mostly (or in some cases, only) buy music on vinyl (regardless if an album already has seen itself on the CD format or the vinyl is just a reissue). So it's not just a case of nostalgia that old geezers try to live up to.

It's not that I'm saying which sounds better -- I'm just saying that digital, while currently in its infancy (as opposed to analog having already been developed

There is a myth of sorts that vinyl will "replace" the CD format. That's just bullshit. If anything, with the widespread accessibility of filesharing sites/torrents people will still buy bundles of blank CD-Rs for burning their precious albums for playing in the car and if sourced from the vinyl edition they will almost never touch the vinyl but instead play the copy they transferred to (because the more you play your vinyl the stylus digs deeper into your grooves, thus causing more "warmth" that non-technical vinyl "audiophiles" often point out as the butter of vinyl's sound quality).

Also, HOW MANY people in the world actually have a turntable? The Average Joe already has a nifty CD player that can get a good quality sound out of it from the start and buying a turntable means you will have to invest hundreds of dollars on maintaining equipment (especially styluses -- such tiny and fragile little things can cost you a fortune if you want the best brand).

And there are still people out there (like me) who buy official CDs (although I tend to stay away from anything that says "remastered" or is a recent reissue unless there is evidence to suggest that the CD was properly-mastered from its original master using state-of-the-art transferring technology). I would say that many of us just wish record labels would be liberal with the price tags and not charge us premium PER disc. That's just stupid.

And while I don't own a turntable, I HAVE listened to vinyl (on a decent Technics with large speakers -- can't remember exactly the brands and their series however), and I HAVE played the CD version of the same exact albums on that same stereo system. The verdict? There really was no difference; when I heard the vinyl it sounded like the CD except with some surface noise, and the CD in turn sounded like the vinyl.

If there is one thing I can appreciate about vinyl, it would be the fact that they (sometimes) have excellent display, and there is more to read on a single page as opposed to reading them off of a CD booklet. However, many LPs (mostly from the '80s) that I own offer vague information on the album such as the lineup, lyrics, and in most cases it's just a sleeve with a bulky record inside with nothing else included. And to add more insult to the injury, most of the CDs I own have much more information on them!

And one last thing, vinylholics:
Stop trying to downplay CD/digital by using the "loudness wars" as an example. There are CDs that were mastered quite decently and there are records that were mastered quite terribly. Just because the "loudness wars" happened to affect the CD by the later '90s doesn't mean that it's the format's fault!

So, debate and discuss. Don't just respond to the OP but also argue amongst each other. I'm just stating my position on this debate. Feel free to add to my argument if you'd like.

ALSO, I would like to bring up the subject of BD (Blu-ray) Audio. What do you guys think of it? I believe that if this format gets popular enough it'll most likely replace CDs (but not for the sake of most vinyl lovers) due to the fact that BDs can store much more data than even a couple DVDs combined, and also because they are more scratch-resistant. I really HOPE BD Audio succeeds because if it does it will be like having a direct copy of the master tape of your favorite Dio album (OK, just an example) at the palm of your hand, to be played on any convenient player suitable for BDs.

I'm no audiophile, I'm not technical at all, and I have no nostalgia and no illusions about quality, but I really do love my vinyl records. They look cool, feel cool, the art is big. I like the ritual of pulling the record out of its big sleeve and putting it on the turntable and flipping it half way through. Just enough work to keep me engaged. I think that when it comes down to it, it's stuff like this that keeps us vinyl lovers loyal to our platters, more than any tired talk about compression and surface noise and warmth vs harshness.

Also, a lot of my records were never pressed to cds, so lets not forget about that.

The bottom line is that we like 'em cause we like 'em, we're not hurting anyone so there is no need to be angry or to argue about which is the better format. Music is meant to be enjoyed, and I enjoy records on the occasion. (Also I like to think that when the nuclear apocalypse strikes I can still listen to all my records on a hand crank 33 1/3 grammophone. Take THAT digital!)

I find it hard to imagine that anyone could possibly hear the difference between a BD audio disc and a CD. It just seems awfully silly to me, there's so little if any benefit.

I think it can come down the the individual release and album. Some recordings simply sound better on a certain format.

Also i think CD skipping is far more abrasive than vinyl popping.

You could make the argument that it's far easier to keep CDs in pristine condition than vinyl.

CD's definitely have the advantage of not wearing out. When it comes to sound quality I guess it depends on the album.

I tell you guys what, i like both formats along each other. It depends on in which format i started to collect a certain bands discography. If i really like an album i even buy it on CD and vinyl, but then it is some kind of "all time favorite" for me.
So far so good, why limiting at one format, when we can have many cool ones all along?

By the way, Blue Ray audio is bullshit, as even master tapes are not that big.

Tell that to my CD's with scratches on them after a single play in a stereo and then are forever unplayable in my CD player (and lets factor in my previous laptops CD drive not working for a single CD or DVD either despite never using it), then tell that to the 7'' that was dropped unsleeved into a trash can, found a week later when taking out my trash and has little to no scratches that didn't already exist, on top of playing perfectly fine.

Also i think the maintenance cost of a turntable is a bit overrated. When i had a CD walkman, i would replace them once every month or two, at the tune of $15-30 depending on the make. My turntable which i bought years ago for $90 still plays every record perfectly fine. Lets add that i listen to records on my turntable between 2-10 hours in a day as an average. My records have not dropped in quality from playback (as many claim with vinyl degrading) despite having played most of the records in my collection tens to hundreds of times each. The condition physically and sound wise has remained the same. I don't take care of records like most "enthusiasts" do. Most polybags get thrown out, and i'm not anal retentive about the "ritual" of playing them where i'm afraid to touch the disc in fear its condition will drop from NM- to EX++ or whatever. I throw the damn thing on the platter, drop the needle down, and let the music do the rest. I do this for every record whether it was a $1 flea market copy of a beatles record with a beat to hell jacket, all the way up to my $50, $100+ "rarities" that most people would freak out if it ever left a sealable polybag in their underground vaults.

I wanted to hope this would be an intellectual discussion from OP, but when the second sentence read "hipster" i lost hope of this happening.

There is no difference today with vinyl and CD. Most albums are mastered digitally and for their CD versions, very few albums are truly analog anymore, much less mastered for the vinyl format. If we talk about records from the 60's with their stereo and mono versions then yeah there's a huge difference. And most 70's records are mastered for the vinyl format, so they definitely would sound better than the reissued versions that came on CD and were likely remastered at the time. However most albums in the past 20 years were mastered for CD's, or recorded digitally, so the audio signals would be the same. Any vinyl reissue that's come out is usually sourced from a remastered CD version, not the original master of the album itself.

My story with vinyl was meeting a couple close friends at the time. I had a turntable in my household since i was born. Some friends were kids who inherited their parents/uncles/whatever record collections when they were kids as well as their old turntable or bought one at a yard sale for a few bucks to play these albums. It was how they discovered bands like AC/DC, alice cooper, metallica, lynard skynard, guns n roses, black sabbath, iron maiden, etc. When they showed me their records, we ended up going into town and checking out record shops, i learned from them the albums i was buying on CD were much more expensive, and i could often find the same albums on vinyl for like 5 dollars or whatever for these bands i was paying $10-15 a piece for. Being a high school kid with no job or money, this made a lot more sense so i started buying them.

I got into punk later on, which many albums were only released on vinyl formats and CD to this day isn't widespread. Any punk record store has walls of vinyl covering the store and maybe a small rack in a corner for CD's. Can't say why, but i guess the format never stuck with the punk rock types. this further fueled my need for the vinyl format. Over time you just get used to buying the record and not paying much mind to CD. When i started driving, my friends all had tape decks in their cars, and eventually the last 3 or 4 cars i owned had tape decks (Even though i would have much rather had a CD player with my last car)...this has led for me to ignore the CD format since there was no convenience to add when i could play the records at home, and the tapes in my car. I usually limited CD purchases to stuff only on CD, compilation/discography stuff from punk bands who had a lot of 7'' releases (Nasum's grind finale, das oath, crossed out, etc type stuff) because CD's usually go unplayed. I have no working CD player other than my laptop at this point, but with downloading its really no different if i find a good rip, or better yet FLAC/WAV files over the standard issue mp3.

Vinyl is just another format. Its not in any way superior to a CD as many are led to believe. There's no sacred ritual behind playing them (this is just a mental thing for the kids who grew up on the CD player and learned about vinyl in their teen/adult years). They also are definitely not status symbols/collectors items like have been perceived for the last decade or so. Listen to the records, or listen to the CD's. I don't think anything different of someone with a lot of CD's, or a lot of records. I know guys with impressive CD collections, and i know people who have owned just about every heavy metal single/ep/and LP up to 1990 on vinyl editions (at the very least a specific genre, such as thrash, traditional/nwobhm/power, speed metal, etc). I have CD's that are rarer and more valuable than most LP's in my entire collection, and the number of vinyl records i own is in the 1000-2000 range, so there's a lot of hype about collecting vinyl that i don't buy into. Unless you're picking up KBD punk, 60's garage/psyche, 30's blues 78s, sealed beatle albums, NWOBHM singles, or US metal private press stuff, that's where the collecting is, not buying reissue burzum LP's or getting the entire back on black catalog for $25-30 a piece.

Viny is cool on a visual level. They look cool, feel cool and have big art. But on a user level, i prefer cds because of the ease of transportation, longevity and sound quality

If I had an infinite amount of money and patience I would buy everything on whatever format it was intended for. If I spot an old Judas Priest album on vinyl I'll probably pick it up since they don't sell for a ton of cash and I find a lot of that band's remasters lacking. I've even got a soft spot for early 90s cassette demos, if I see something from a band I love from that era under $20 I'll probably snag it up.

But people bitching about CD being inferior to vinyl while buying new albums that were recorded 100% digitally make no sense to me.

Iv seen a graph of the soundwave comparison of bothcd and record with vinyl being analog it reproduces the full curve of the soundwave and cd's looked more like a square wave chopped at the top not giving you the full frequency . Cd's are compressed 1's 0's binary data which is read and transfered back into music so although free of static and pops to some listeners this may trick them into thinking its better but really they are not getting the full spectrum . im no expert but i prefer the sound of a record and do find the seperation of instruments and vocals to be better and warmer even if the record may have the odd pop and click i find that to be part of its magic and also find the whole process of dropping the needle in the groove and watching it ride to be kind of a ritual hahahaha !! i have a pretty nice marantz cd player and some cds seem to have a good crisp and sonically powerful sound i would much rather play the record ...for convenience iv got a 64 gig ipod touch loaded with metal and love the fact i can find torrents of all kinds of rare stuff i would not be able to find on vinyl or afford either . alot of the time i find myself jacking the ipod into my stereo to listen to stuff iv just downloaded (these days its been a whole ass load of black metal) and i find an album i love i try and find it on vinyl ...plus ita always good to take in the car and have all that metal come along for the ride .. As far as sound quality of that its hit and miss sometimes get a great sounding download othertimes its total ass but its free so im too worried about the lesser quality . As far as Cd vs vinyl i prefer records anyday and to my ears they sound better tonme id rather have the full sound as close to the master tapes and take the pops and clicks and static rather than the a squeeky clean compressed cd but then again im not saying cds sound bad they sound great as well and alot better than mp3s and on a good stereo they all sound fine its justca matter of tase and how picky you are ... I love metal and when im listening to a good song i get sucked into the music and forget what format im listening to ... Hell when we were kids with a cheap ass ghetto blaster and an evil cassette tell me you were not having the time of your life rocking out to it ..i was and those were the days !

I'm big on nostalgia so I don't oppose collecting vinyls.
However, I for one cannot afford to always buy vinyls over CD's. Its purely a matter of price to me, even though a lot of them can be found relatively cheap.
Which is why I still buy and always will buy tapes--something about the sound quality feels very old school and draws me to them, and they're very affordable.
Other than that, CD's for their convenience.

Wow what kind of crazy stereo do you have that mangles cds like that? I've never had a cd get fucked up just from listening.

I've dropped a stack of cds while moving them, a few discs sent flying across the room. They ended up scratch-free thankfully. I find that CDs are honestly pretty durable things, it's just that people tend to be really careless with them for some reason.

Still, no media is impervious to damage, obviously, so you've made a fair point.

Vinyl is cooler than plastic. Bigger album artwork, better for displaying (I have my favorite vinyl albums posted on a few walls in my bedroom). The whole experience of vinyl is more rich and rewarding. I used to be an avid collector of the plastic but switched to vinyl a few years ago. I love bringing a record home and putting it on my turntable instead of popping a CD into a stereo or my laptop. Vinyl records generally have more resell value than CD versions. Basically, vinyl is more valuable.

However, CDs do have their upside, the most important being that it's much easier to get mp3s from a CD onto a computer than ripping them from a record. Also, you can't play vinyl records in the car.

Bottom line: it doesn't really matter, or it's whatever you prefer. I usually listen to all my music on my computer anyways. I don't buy physical formats as often as I used to. Most physical copies I buy, CD or vinyl, usually just sit around somewhere after I've taken it all in once or twice anyway.

I can find some rare stuff on vinyl cheaper then I can on CD and in better condition/first pressing/etc. I like both. I like cassettes too. In music you should explore all mediums.

Of course there are somethings you can't avoid. I'm listening to GISM as I write this and I will probably never get my hands on a real GISM record so downloading it is the only way I can listen to them. I also find CD's get scratched way easier then any of my vinyl. All of my vinyl I've had around 1-2 years and the only one that works terribly is this seven inch that I can find for 2 bucks and was used when I got it.

I like the sound of Vinyl better. I got a CD/Cassette/Turntable/Radio contraption that was cheap and it works fine and sounds nice. I haven't spent "hundreds".

Not this again. For starters, your auditory system is not sensitive enough to even begin to detect the differences between sine and square waves on a microsecond timescale. Also, "not getting the full spectrum"? The Red Book standard for CD audio handles frequencies from 20 Hz to 20 kHz just fine, and that's more than anyone needs in order to enjoy music as it's meant to be.

I wonder though, how many people here listen to the same music on both vinyls and CD in the same room/environment, on the same audio system using the same speakers?

Generally I prefer CDs, though lately I've been buying a lot of vinyl records to make my new turntable worthwhile. As I listen to my stuff on what would probably be regarded as an low/mid level sound system I wouldn't be able to tell the difference in sound quality anyway, beyond the occasional popping (or outright crackling and hissing on fucked up second hand records) on my vinyl when I neglect to wipe away a spot of dust. Vinyl records are nice and are more aesthetically pleasing of course, but from a technological standpoint and as far as durability goes I think CDs have them beat. The reason CDs can survive having a tonne of scratches is because of the precautionary measures built into the things: from memory the error correction they use adds one extra byte of redudancy for every three or four bytes of data and can correct quite a significant amount of what would otherwise be lost data. Vinyl obviously doesn't have this kind of protection so if you accidentally drop a record and scuff it up too badly you're rather screwed.

i have had this opportunity.

i have a friend (a vinyl fiend) who works at a small, high end audio store (brands such as b&w, nad, paradigm, rega are the ones ones i can recall) and was able to convince him to invite me in after hours for some blind listening. we compared older recordings originally recorded in the analog format and newer ones recorded digitally. if i remember correctly, the system - including the speakers - retailed for about $25,000.

anyway, the disc beat the vinyl every time for me (as much as my bud tried to convince me otherwise. i dont feel any warmth to be honest. i also feel metal benefits from the clarity of digital media.

what it really comes down to is 'want' - vinyl fiends want them to sound better than cds, so they make their mind believe it. same could be the other way around, but those characteristic 'pops' and 'clicks' just distract me to no end and even though he put on some tunes w/o me knowing which media it was, those vinyl characteristics were a dead give away.

I find that when i play vinyl it fills the room up more with sound than a CD will.

Some things you can't find on CD though. So in the end its a pointless stupid argument. When I listen to music I don't take "sound quality" into retrospect. The more lo-fi the better I believe.

Not to mention the fact that you aren't actually hearing those square waves by the time they actually hit your speakers. Those DAC circuits exist for a reason.

What someone said already - if its mastered digitally, which most, if not all, things are these days, it doesn't matter if its on vinyl or cd, it essentially sounds the same to the human ear, especially the "modern" human ear, damaged to shit from standing too close to speakers at gigs, and listening to music too loud in headphones.

/used to sit and approve masters all day, and hate life

I preferred vinyl, but not for the "superior audio quality". Until I had to move one day.

I fucking love when people go to this card. A little fact for you to chew on:

VINYL IS PLASTIC TOO.

Polyvinyl chloride is cooler than polycarbonate.

The short of it I like CDs. I'll buy vinyl when something isn't on cd. Sometimes I'll buy it on vinyl cause I really like the band/release that much or I find it at one hell of a cheap deal.

Nothing else matters that I need to discuss further.

The 'hipster' comment got to me the most, and If i could i would slap the OP in the face for that. You want a civilized discussion? Then be civilized.

I prefer vinyl to CDs. Why? It's cheaper.

CDs, tapes, and vinyl records all have their purpose. Well, except maybe tapes. Vinyl are way cool to have as collectors items and will typically come with a fold out poster. And of course, LPs have larger albm art than CDs. CDs on the other hand are very easy to transport as LPs are not, you can fit around twenty in your backpack and even keep your entire collection in your car... Unless your one of those compulsive buyers.

When it comes to sound quality that argument is a myth. By default, most, if not all albums are recorded in lossless format and unless your using a cheap record player you won't notice the difference. Deterioration of course exists more frequently among vinyl records and that can affect loss of sound quality.

It's not and you know it. It is cheaper when you buy used obvious stuff, but not for new albums and OOP/rare lps.

I agree, you can get a new CD for about $13, compared to a new LP for $20 and higher.

Well, duh. Just a few days ago I got Metal Church's second LP in very good condition (based on Discogs grading standards) and i paid 3.99 for it. As for new releases, yes it's more expensive (7-10 bucks more?) but people forget that vinyls have bigger artwork, so it's not a huge offset for what you are getting.

What am I getting at? I would have paid more to get the stuff I already have when buying CDs instead of vinyls and tapes. That's the main reason I dont buy CDs unless they are cheaper.

I prefer CDs by a little bit because they're easier to transport and you can play 'em in your car. There's nothing like some wicked colored vinyl though.

CASSETTES FOR ALL TIME. Also, huge vinyl collector here, have no used for CDs, think they suck. Nothing else to add.

Sorry, but I had to bring up the "hipster" thing on the OP. From my experience, it's pretty obvious that a lot of young people today ditch CDs and collect (only) vinyl because they want to be seen as "different" and "unique." Only good thing about vinyl is the big artwork (which you can hang on your walls or use as reference for reproducing the artwork itself).

But I didn't mean to say ALL young people who own vinyl records are "hipsters" because if they also give other formats a chance then it's all good. I'm just talking about those who buy vinyl and for the most part they don't even play their records but they get some download code for crappy .mp3 downloads. Fuck that. Give me CD, or better yet lossless audio such as .wav or better yet .flac files.

As far as the "ritual" thing goes, why can't CDs also be a part of the fun "ritual" as well?

You pick up the jewel case to check out the front art, open it, look at the back side of the booklet, take out the CD, check the bottom side for any flaws (in case there happens to be a noticeable scratch that may affect play -- apply a disc cleaner to it), press "Eject" on your CD player, carefully insert your CD (only touching the edges to avoid getting scratches/smudges), press the "Play" button, sit back with the jewel case in hand, take out the booklet as you listen (make sure to smell it before you take it out if it's in mint condition -- sometimes CD booklets smell oh-so good), read the lyrics and the liner notes, look at photos of the band inside, etc.

Then when you are done, return the booklet back into its respective jewel case, close the jewel case, walk up to your CD player, press "Eject" to get your CD out, take it out (again, holding only on the edges), open your jewel case, place the CD back in its respective place (keep so it aligned correctly so it doesn't lean on the left or the right too much), close the jewel case, place the album back in your shelf, next.

I feel just as close to the music when listening to a CD as I would to its vinyl counterpart.

Why is it so hard for vinyl-only fanatics to realize that there is a "magical" experience with just about any physical album? Yes, even cassettes have interesting things printed on their inlays and there is a nice feeling with holding a legitimate copy of an album you love -- be it CD, cassette, 8-track, vinyl, or even fucking reel-to-reel.

Also, since vinyl has "warmer" sound then if you had to choose would you buy a live video on DVD or VHS? I mean, isn't "warmth" the reason why analog is oh-so great and stuff?

Live films are already warm sounding really. With VHS, DVD, and Blu Ray i think it depends on your setup a lot.

What do people mean by "warm" anyway?

Hipsterism really ruins things for the normies, doesn't it? Vinyls, jazz, coffee, BMWs, Always Sunny... those thick-rimmed glasses-wearers really make me want to hate it all.

But, I really do like vinyls. I think getting them from albums first released from about the mid-80s and onwards is pointless because by then tapes and/or CDs were what the production had in mind, but there is a certain authenticity to listening to something pressed in '74 played on a turntable manufactured in '72. Recently I had the opportunity to visit an antique shop where the owner was playing an Alice Cooper record and it sounded fantastic - keep in mind I'm not even a fan - and there's something odd about a record's flaws in that it sounds like it's being recorded amateurishly, but the band is playing live right next door.

Having said that, if I'm listening to something made, say, last year, I'd rather listen to it on a top-of-the-range Bang & Olufsen... not that I'm an audiophile or anything, most of my music is in mp3 format played through an iPod, an AUX cable and factory Toyota Hiace speakers. I just play it so loud that I can't listen to myself sing along.

Personally, I just collect the vinyls I really want just for my own amusement; I don't even own a turntable, nor have the room for one. There's something to be said for them, and I don't think they're collectors' items just because of their age because I can't imagine tapes or CDs ever being that, so...

This is completely true. Many people seems to suffer a 'placebo' effect believing that modern albums released in vinyl positively sounds better than their cd counterparts. Still, I like the huge artwork and overall presentation.

I have vinyl, cds and tapes, everyone has its own charm.

About rituals, I still use a pencil to rewind some tapes.

Even when the CD and vinyl versions both have used the same (digital) master source, the vinyl could still sound better to some people for many more reasons than just wishful thinking or their imaginations getting the best of them. It could be the simple fact that the playback equipment is completely different (CD player vs turntable) and each system processes the sound in different ways. For one thing, more specifically, maybe the EQ curve that is built into the turntable's pre-amp stage adds a pleasing element to the final sound output.

Bought any pro pressed cassettes lately?