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Ribos
Radioactive Man

Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 10:10 pm
Posts: 3020
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:28 pm 
 

Quote:
"'Don't be so greedy': he is by no means greedy, man. If he was, he would have settled with whatever contract given him.
That's... kind of not how greed works. "Greedy" is putting the completion of the reunion up for ransom.

And again, if Bill was truly as dedicated to Black Sabbath as he and his son try to claim, one would think he'd have tried a hell of a lot harder to get in on the Heaven And Hell lineup. Or, you know, tried to get in ANY of the lineups post-'79.

I've seen this kind of talk before, and it invariably comes from people with inflated senses of importance who can't actually follow through on their tall words and are - consciously or not - afraid of having to step up to their claims. I've worked with such people in non-musical environments, and they are the worst people to have on a team, since they over-commit and under-achieve. It just makes everyone else's jobs that much harder, and brings down morale across the board. So yes, I'm still going with Bill needing to grow the hell up.
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:57 pm 
 

That doesn't change the fact that he's still part of the original lineup and still deserves the same deal as everyone else in the band. :nono: "Grow up" my ass, the one who needs to grow up is that egotistical cunt Sharon.
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Tezcat
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 10:39 am
Posts: 333
Location: Colombia
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:10 pm 
 

Morrigan wrote:
That doesn't change the fact that he's still part of the original lineup and still deserves the same deal as everyone else in the band. :nono: "Grow up" my ass, the one who needs to grow up is that egotistical cunt Sharon.

Plus, by what we have read from Mr. Ward so far, the impression that I get is that, perhaps, the terms in which the previous contract was written made him feel like a second-class citizen, compared to Iommi and Butler. Perhaps he was not being offered the same amount of money, or something else, who knows? Perhaps that bitch Sharon considers that Bill Ward's only value is that he is a founding member... andnothing more. What intrigues me is... why don't we have an official statement from the other members? Yeah, sure, Geezer and Tommi both have had their own careers and have recorded far mor estuff than Bill Ward and that would give them "more value" ergo, the terms of their contracts probably are better than the "unsignable" contract offered to Bill... in any case, that was happen when a bitch like that is in conrol... Remember back then when Sharon offered Anthrax a spot in Ozzfest only and only if they got the original line-up? I wonder what were the terms for Anthrax's contract back then... Remember her bitchiness back then with that Maiden incident? Fuckin' bitch...
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Xlxlx
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:48 pm 
 

You know, whenever Sharon's name is mentioned, I always get reminded of that Cannibal Corpse song; Meat Hook Sodomy. Yeah, a guy can dream.....

Spoiler: show
Disclaimer for those with a not so morbid sense of humour; my comment is a joke. Or is it? :evil:
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blastbeatshaman
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:52 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:14 am 
 

Vinny's working with ex-Pantera bassist Rex Brown in Kill Devil Hill, so I'm not sure how "available" he'd be for Sabbath.

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Erisgaroth
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:18 am
Posts: 1542
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:34 am 
 

A Reunion is a reunion with all the original members. I was thinking in Vinny too, and even Eric Singer, but he's busy with Kiss. Maybe Vinny is still available, but he was more the companion of Dio and i was hoping to see the reunion with all of the original members.

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Subrick
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Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:55 am 
 

I'm sure most of you have seen this page by now, but the 1,000,000 Black Sabbath Fans Say Yes to Bill Ward page is really picking up some steam.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/1000000-B ... 706?ref=ts

It's only been up for I think 3 or 4 days and it's already gotten almost 30,000 likes.
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Morrigan
Crone of War

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:20 pm 
 

Sharon's latest tweet implies that she's not responsible for what's happening with Bill. Colour me cautiously skeptical about that, it's hard to believe she had no impact on the matter...
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Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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TheNiceNightmare
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 12:56 pm 
 

"I don't call the shots about this in public, I tell my husband how to call the shots in public."
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Twisted_Psychology
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:30 pm 
 

Where's Bev Bevan when you need him?
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Element_man
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 1:55 pm 
 

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Razakel
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Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:36 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:44 pm 
 

Subrick wrote:
I'm sure most of you have seen this page by now, but the 1,000,000 Black Sabbath Fans Say Yes to Bill Ward page is really picking up some steam.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/1000000-B ... 706?ref=ts

It's only been up for I think 3 or 4 days and it's already gotten almost 30,000 likes.


Usually stuff like this comes off as stupid, but this seems pretty legit. Sabbath would have to be assholes to ignore a million fans simply asking for a more reasonable explanation than what we've been given. Disagreements over an unfair contract is basically the shittiest reason for a reunion to fall through.

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SleightOfVickonomy
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:54 am 
 

MasterKrispy02 wrote:
Now that this whole thing has had time to sink in, it's making me miss Dio all the much more... :(

Me too. I feel like tearing my hair out in anguish and weeping because we all know if RJD was alive, this year would have seen a new H&H album...that man was tireless. I mean, he managed to make an album just the year before he died. Kinda like Mark Reale, who made "Immortal Soul" even when he was battling his disease.

There would be a new H&H on the way :nono:

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Discorporeality
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:54 pm
Posts: 24
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:08 am 
 

You all need to know the truth about the reasons behind Bill Ward's firing.....

http://tyrannyoftradition.com/2012/02/09/i-fired-bill-ward/

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brandon1986
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 3:11 am
Posts: 108
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:49 am 
 

SleightOfVickonomy wrote:
MasterKrispy02 wrote:
Now that this whole thing has had time to sink in, it's making me miss Dio all the much more... :(

Me too. I feel like tearing my hair out in anguish and weeping because we all know if RJD was alive, this year would have seen a new H&H album...that man was tireless. I mean, he managed to make an album just the year before he died. Kinda like Mark Reale, who made "Immortal Soul" even when he was battling his disease.

There would be a new H&H on the way :nono:


i know and that sucks, if ronnie was still alive sabbath errr heaven and hell would have had another album out or coming out and another tour such a fucking shame

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jerk
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Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:43 am
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:24 am 
 

Well, colour me even less interested in this reunion now. Seems like Bill got out while he could. To be honest I'm not even sure anything's going to come of this reunion, because I've heard that Ozzy "Most Pussywhipped Man In Metal" "Haha Suckers, I'm Not Retiring After Two Albums Like I Said I Would" Osbourne is working on another album, which is exactly what stopped production on the new Sabbath album back in 2001, and if Tony's lymphoma progresses, they'll have to suspend everything. I'm not holding my breath on this one.

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Ilwhyan
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Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
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Location: Finland
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:04 am 
 

Discorporeality wrote:
You all need to know the truth about the reasons behind Bill Ward's firing.....

http://tyrannyoftradition.com/2012/02/09/i-fired-bill-ward/

That was rather inane.
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Razakel
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:39 pm 
 

Here's an interesting article: http://theobelisk.net/obelisk/2012/02/1 ... d-matters/

I especially thought this was a good point:

Quote:
Without Bill Ward in the songwriting process, they invariably won’t be getting the product they were promised.

And in that, Ward is not blameless. If he felt his contract untenable, he shouldn’t have taken the stage with the band in November and said he was on board for the reunion. However much you like these people or think they’re not out to screw you over — and however much they might not actually be — that’s just bad business, and a band that makes as much money as Black Sabbath does on a reunion tour is unavoidably a business. It’s naive to think otherwise.


That does seem to be a point that a lot of people, myself included, either choose to ignore or just don't understand. Bill Ward did make an obligation, of sorts, when he announced to Sabbath fans of the world that he would be partaking in the reunion. Granted, he obviously wasn't expecting a bullshit contract, but that was after the fact. It was pretty stupid on everybody's part to rush into things before the logistics had been straightened out and agreed upon.

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iAmDisturbed
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:58 am 
 

Well if they value him they should have given him a contract that was reasonable and fair to him.

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Zodijackyl
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Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:59 pm 
 

What could Ward be asking for that the band/their management refuse to accept?

The simplest answer would be an equal cut of the money. I don't think it's as simple as that. I don't think money is the primary issue, because even with a smaller cut, Ward would be making millions for doing what he loves.

Ward was an eager participant in the reunion up until they relocated the writing/recording to England. His statement said he is packed and ready, but mentions a lack of respect for his family. If he is going to temporarily relocate to England, I'm sure he'd like to bring his wife and anyone else in his family who is living with them. Ozzy's wife is certainly with them, as his manager too. Iommi's choice of location was England, since his illness forced the move there. His statement suggests that the contract is unacceptable to him because it doesn't provide for him temporarily relocating his family, like the other members have done. It's a reasonable request, but it could be quite expensive, and the band quickly decided that Ward was out, unrelated session drummer was in.

"My position is not greed-driven. I'm not holding out for a "big piece" of the action (money) ... I want a contract that shows some respect to me and my family"

Seems like he wants his family to be included with the relocation across the globe. He was involved in California, the family element is what really stands out wiht the band's relocation.

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Tezcat
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 10:39 am
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Location: Colombia
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:27 pm 
 

Zodijackyl wrote:
What could Ward be asking for that the band/their management refuse to accept?

The simplest answer would be an equal cut of the money. I don't think it's as simple as that. I don't think money is the primary issue, because even with a smaller cut, Ward would be making millions for doing what he loves.

Ward was an eager participant in the reunion up until they relocated the writing/recording to England. His statement said he is packed and ready, but mentions a lack of respect for his family. If he is going to temporarily relocate to England, I'm sure he'd like to bring his wife and anyone else in his family who is living with them. Ozzy's wife is certainly with them, as his manager too. Iommi's choice of location was England, since his illness forced the move there. His statement suggests that the contract is unacceptable to him because it doesn't provide for him temporarily relocating his family, like the other members have done. It's a reasonable request, but it could be quite expensive, and the band quickly decided that Ward was out, unrelated session drummer was in.

"My position is not greed-driven. I'm not holding out for a "big piece" of the action (money) ... I want a contract that shows some respect to me and my family"

Seems like he wants his family to be included with the relocation across the globe. He was involved in California, the family element is what really stands out wiht the band's relocation.

Interesting. Now this seems to be a reasonable explanation to the whole issue. Perhaps he wants travel expenses and a residence/place to stay/hotel/whatever to be paid for him and his family. I wonder if Geezer also receives this kind of treatment (for him and his family/companion/whatever) and Bill doesn't and that's why he mentions "respect for me and my family"...
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Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:01 pm 
 

Razakel wrote:
Here's an interesting article: http://theobelisk.net/obelisk/2012/02/1 ... d-matters/

I especially thought this was a good point:

Quote:
Without Bill Ward in the songwriting process, they invariably won’t be getting the product they were promised.

And in that, Ward is not blameless. If he felt his contract untenable, he shouldn’t have taken the stage with the band in November and said he was on board for the reunion. However much you like these people or think they’re not out to screw you over — and however much they might not actually be — that’s just bad business, and a band that makes as much money as Black Sabbath does on a reunion tour is unavoidably a business. It’s naive to think otherwise.


That does seem to be a point that a lot of people, myself included, either choose to ignore or just don't understand. Bill Ward did make an obligation, of sorts, when he announced to Sabbath fans of the world that he would be partaking in the reunion. Granted, he obviously wasn't expecting a bullshit contract, but that was after the fact. It was pretty stupid on everybody's part to rush into things before the logistics had been straightened out and agreed upon.


But if there was no contract, Ward can do whatever he wants (I.E., play with his fellows for a gig or two) without any obligation to anyone. A contract is binding though, and once that's drawn up, that's when the true business side of things has to be examined and a final decision has to be made. Bill opted out, for better or worse, and it's totally within his right to do so.
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Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:15 pm 
 

Abominatrix wrote:
But if there was no contract, Ward can do whatever he wants (I.E., play with his fellows for a gig or two) without any obligation to anyone. A contract is binding though, and once that's drawn up, that's when the true business side of things has to be examined and a final decision has to be made. Bill opted out, for better or worse, and it's totally within his right to do so.


Apparently he has been denied any further information following the move to England until he signs a contract. Management won't modify the contract.

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Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:24 pm 
 

You know what's most sad about this? It's a reflection of just how old and stodgy the guys have become. Of course they used to record albums all over the globe; moving back and forth never seemed to be an issue. Vol. 4 was recorded in California, Sabbath Bloody Sabbath in England, never Say Die in Toronto, Heaven and Hell in England again (I think), etc. Now it's just impossible for everybody to pick up their lives and start building something in an exciting new place. I don't exactly blame them but again, it's simply a depiction of just how ridiculous this whole thing has become. It's probably better for everybody if they just let some session guy play. I don't blame Bill for not wanting to be a part of this nonsense anymore, nor would I gbgrudge anyone who wants to see something approaching a Sabbath re-union, even if it only lasts for a little while and doesn't result in a record. I was never all that excited, personally...those four have not exactly shown a lot of joy and enthusiasm about playing together in recent years; there's no reason to suppose some magical contract will suddenly make it a-ok now.
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Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:10 pm 
 

Abominatrix wrote:
You know what's most sad about this? It's a reflection of just how old and stodgy the guys have become. Of course they used to record albums all over the globe; moving back and forth never seemed to be an issue. Vol. 4 was recorded in California, Sabbath Bloody Sabbath in England, never Say Die in Toronto, Heaven and Hell in England again (I think), etc. Now it's just impossible for everybody to pick up their lives and start building something in an exciting new place. I don't exactly blame them but again, it's simply a depiction of just how ridiculous this whole thing has become. It's probably better for everybody if they just let some session guy play. I don't blame Bill for not wanting to be a part of this nonsense anymore, nor would I gbgrudge anyone who wants to see something approaching a Sabbath re-union, even if it only lasts for a little while and doesn't result in a record. I was never all that excited, personally...those four have not exactly shown a lot of joy and enthusiasm about playing together in recent years; there's no reason to suppose some magical contract will suddenly make it a-ok now.


I agree. I am glad that Black Sabbath stopped making music in 1992, and I am similarly glad that Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer, and Anthrax joined them in passing the torch to a new generation of metal bands. There's no reason this illusion should be broken.

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Dux_Saxoniae
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:56 am
Posts: 102
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:14 pm 
 

Bill has posted a new statement: http://www.metalhammer.co.uk/news/black ... statement/

Quote:
“Dear Sabbath Fans,

I wanted to let you know where things are at, from my point of view, as of today, February 17, 2012. As my statement of February 2, 2012 indicated, I have not declined to participate in the Sabbath album and tour. At the earliest opportunity, I am prepared to go to the U.K. and record, and later tour with the band. Last week, we sent further communication to the attorney handling the negotiations to try to reach an agreement.

At this time we are waiting to hear back. I remain hopeful for a “signable” contract and a positive outcome. I want to thank everyone who has voiced and posted their opinions, thoughts, support and love through all media, including the newly constructed sites. I applaud your worldwide reaction in support of the original band. And speaking for myself, your intent and truth will always be respected.

While believing in your freedom for expression, keep in mind that Tony, Ozzy and Geezer are still my lifetime friends, and I cannot support comments with an objectifying or derogatory theme toward them or their various representatives. Many thanks to all of you. You are truly phenomenal.

Stay safe, stay strong.

–Bill Ward”

So, nothing really new in there - I assume he's trying to force their hand and give him a definitive reply. I like his insistence that the other guys are his 'lifetime friends', though. I take this statement as an olive branch, what do you guys think?

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Kveldulfr
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:29 pm 
 

Bill wants to do the tour and the album and he deserves an equal treat as a founding member. If Ward won't participate, I won't attend any gig of this fake Sabbath reunion. I already saw Heaven and Hell and I'm sure that no one will top that experience, unless Ward is there and Ozzy does a great job.
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Metantoine
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:53 pm 
 

http://consequenceofsound.net/2012/02/b ... our-dates/

Ozzy and friends :(
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Kveldulfr
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:57 pm 
 

IT FUCKING SUCKS!

Edit: So, this is almost Ozzmosis-era Ozzy. Fuck Ozzy.
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Dux_Saxoniae
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Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:56 am
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:01 pm 
 

Metantoine wrote:
http://consequenceofsound.net/2012/02/black-sabbath-cancels-reunion-tour-dates/

Ozzy and friends :(

That's a real shame. :(

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Morrigan
Crone of War

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:35 pm 
 

Quote:
Despite the news, Black Sabbath — currently sans Bill Ward — remain at work on their first studio album in 33 years.

:facepalm: Black Sabbath released an album in 1995, you cunts. You meant to write, "the original line-up of Black Sabbath — currently sans Bill Ward —". :nono:

Also, :ah-ha: @ "Ozzy and friends".
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you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
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WaywardSon
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:48 am
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:29 pm 
 

Zakk Wylde? What happened to Gus G? Did he get canned?

Morrigan wrote:
Quote:
Despite the news, Black Sabbath — currently sans Bill Ward — remain at work on their first studio album in 33 years.

:facepalm: Black Sabbath released an album in 1995 1994, you cunts. You meant to write, "the original line-up of Black Sabbath — currently sans Bill Ward —". :nono:


No idea what you're talking about. The last Sabbath album released (under that name) was the great Cross Purposes. What is this mysterious 1995 release you speak of? Some type of compilation? :oh shit:
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Lord_Jotun
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:45 pm 
 

This whole thing keeps getting more and more grotesque...
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Ilwhyan
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:45 pm 
 

Next Butler will refuse to play because it's not Black Sabbath with just him and Ozzy, and Trujillo will replace him.
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marktheviktor
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:45 pm 
 

Abominatrix wrote:
Heaven and Hell(recorded) in England again (I think)


Criterion Studios in Miami actually.

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Vlachos
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:00 pm 
 

Quote:
No idea what you're talking about. The last Sabbath album released (under that name) was the great Cross Purposes. What is this mysterious 1995 release you speak of? Some type of compilation? :oh shit:

Um... Forbidden...
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Morrigan
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:25 am 
 

Vlachos wrote:
Um... Forbidden...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xECUrlnXCqk

(I think...)
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Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
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Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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Subrick
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:18 pm 
 

This thing was going to fall apart sooner or later. Bill's departure was merely the catalyst for this whole reunion unraveling.
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Rocka_Rollas
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:08 am
Posts: 774
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:53 pm 
 

Dont care a fucking shit. Never cared about Black Sabbath at all.
I know they had a lot of influence of more modern metal, and I KNOW THAT...
But seruoyslt. They never reallt made a real metal album, more like metal songs that would compile into a metal albul. And a fucking awesome one upon that! But for every war pig and black sabbath theres some fucking blues jam nobody cares about....

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Subrick
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
Posts: 5716
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:00 pm 
 

Just ignore the above, gentlemen. Just your average village dipshit.
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