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Oxenkiller
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:42 am
Posts: 1313
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:04 pm 
 

I hope this doesnt ignite an ugly debate but if it does I apologize: the presidential race is underway here and I just read that Dave Mustaine has endorsed one of the more divisive and polarizing candidates in the race, according to this article:
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/mega ... 20697.html

Now this bothers me for a few reasons. First with all due respect to the man, he has the right to vote for whomever he wants to, as do most of us in the US with voting rights. And its not like he is the only respected musician with controversial views, we all could name several with far MORE extreme, controversial views than old Dave. But I guess what rubbed me wrong was Rick Santorum spoke here in our city last night, and a lot of the things he says are rather disturbing: He claims to be in favor of "liberty" but yet favors increasing government interference in people's intimate private lives (a key premise of Socialist, Islamic/theocratic and many other totalitarian societies) which gives the distinct impression he either a) doesnt know the meaning of "liberty" or b) really does NOT respect the idea. He wants to sell off all our public lands, which are our birthright- the places where we hunt, camp, hike, and enjoy; and this is a terrifying idea. To explain, What if, for example, Norways government did something like this, and Forestcorpse had to dodge "no tresspassing" signs everywhere he went to take his photos we all enjoy? Santorum also rejects modern science and distain for the environment, and is PROUD OF THAT! And like all but one of the Republican candidates, he supports military intervention in parts of the world in which the U.S has no buisness being in.

So, with Mustaine publicly throwing his support behind this candidate, I find it hard to maintain any respect for the man. I think that by endorsing extremist candidates, musicians risk creating as much backlash among fans as they would by releasing albums like, say (for example), "Risk." I might still listen to his albums but I feel uncomfortable about it, now.

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bassistneededlolnot
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:08 pm
Posts: 644
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:24 pm 
 

I find it strange that Mustaine would support him. I figured he would be in the Ron Paul-loving crowd :confused:

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TheOldOne
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:05 pm
Posts: 755
Location: Stalling at the present time
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:32 pm 
 

bassistneededlolnot wrote:
I find it strange that Mustaine would support him. I figured he would be in the Ron Paul-loving crowd :confused:


Dave Mustaine= Nutty christian, Rick Santorum= Nutty christian.

It's been my experience that nutty christians tend to support one another, so this really doesn't surprise me.

Apologies if I offend anyone.
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Oxenkiller
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:42 am
Posts: 1313
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:36 pm 
 

I guess I didn't realize how "nutty" Dave Mustaine's Christianity was.

There are plenty of mainstream Christians with moderate/centrist leaning views, even some with left-leaning views. However the more politicians are outspoken about their faith, the more they seem to cater to the theocratic, anti-liberty, right wing crowd. And interestingly, these politicians economic policies (social darwinism, cut social benefits, tax the poor but not the wealthy, etc) are contrary to the teachings of Jesus in the Bible, ironically.

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Ritual_Suicide
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:39 am
Posts: 379
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:45 pm 
 

If Jesus were alive today spreading the same message he did in the bible, people like Santorum (and apparently Dave Mustaine) would call him a communist.

...Which would not be too far from the truth actually.

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Unifying_Disorder
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:52 pm
Posts: 992
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:47 pm 
 

Oxenkiller wrote:
I guess I didn't realize how "nutty" Dave Mustaine's Christianity was.

There are plenty of mainstream Christians with moderate/centrist leaning views, even some with left-leaning views. However the more politicians are outspoken about their faith, the more they seem to cater to the theocratic, anti-liberty, right wing crowd. And interestingly, these politicians economic policies (social darwinism, cut social benefits, tax the poor but not the wealthy, etc) are contrary to the teachings of Jesus in the Bible, ironically.


I don't know any right-wingers who want to tax the poor but not the wealthy. Most of them want taxes lowered for everyone. Personally, I'm in favor of a flat tax that everyone pays.

I don't really like any of the candidates running. But I'll take any one of them over our current chief executive, that is, unless they're running as a communist, or a neo-Nazi.
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9712
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:51 pm 
 

Oxenkiller wrote:
I guess I didn't realize how "nutty" Dave Mustaine's Christianity was.

I take it you missed this thread, then. :D

(Dietary warning: the interview quoted in this thread may contain nuts.)
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PhilosophicalFrog
The Hypercube

Joined: Thu May 04, 2006 7:08 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:58 pm 
 

I think it's cool when musicians (fringe musicians in particular) support fringe politics. I mean, it's not the smartest, but there's a poetic artistic vibe in something like that.
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Twisted_Psychology
Veteran

Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 8:22 pm
Posts: 2984
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:18 pm 
 

Is Jon Schaffer still endorsing Ron Paul?
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John_Sunlight
President Satan

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:18 pm 
 

Everyone describes their philosophy in the language of liberty. Everyone. Every philosophy. Almost...
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marktheviktor
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:41 am
Posts: 6904
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:22 pm 
 

I don't care who these musicians vote/support for anymore than I care what the politicians' taste in music is.

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Crick
Despised by 17 Corners of the Universe

Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:11 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:31 pm 
 

Considering Gingrich, Romney AND Santorum all claim they'd fight to make porn illegal if they were elected, I start to think if I'd rather just keep Obama despite his shite track record. Not that they'd be likely to succeed considering the sheer amount of money the porn industry generates, but the mindset to even want to attempt an initiative like that turns me off more than even the SOPA/ACTA fiascos.
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americanholocaust
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:38 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:01 am 
 

They would never make porn illegal. It's protected as art, part of free speech. Not much they could do about it, other than attempting to bust porn studios for prostitution, which I am pretty sure they can get around that charge as well.
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Crick
Despised by 17 Corners of the Universe

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:03 am 
 

Im aware they'd never succeed. Again though, it's the mindset it takes to even want to do something like that that I would not get behind.
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DrFunkenstein
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:53 pm
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Location: Azerbaijan
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:49 am 
 

Quote:
I don't really like any of the candidates running. But I'll take any one of them over our current chief executive, that is, unless they're running as a communist, or a neo-Nazi

Really? You'd take Santorum over Obama?

Obviously you haven't heard some of the bullshit this guy's spewed over the years. I'm no Obama fan, but it looks like he's America's best chance in the coming years.

and that's a scary thought.
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americanholocaust
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:29 am 
 

Santorum is crazy. He blamed hurricane Katrina on God's wrath because women wanted equal pay in the work force. (paraphrasing, not exaggerating)
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Oxenkiller
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:42 am
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:48 am 
 

^Exactly. Under normal circumstances, i.e. in past decades, people like Santorum would be labeled a fringe candidate and would have simply been lauged out of existance. The fact that he has so much support is rather shocking (and a bit scary.) The whole problem is, the Republican party as been courting the extremists, and the lunatic fringe, over the past couple of election cycles. They have alienated all the moderate base. Heck, I used to BE a Republican, but like many, find Obama to be simply the "lesser of two evils" (though still an evil.)

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pbsisbad
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:39 pm
Posts: 451
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:03 am 
 

Oxenkiller wrote:
Heck, I used to BE a Republican, but like many, find Obama to be simply the "lesser of two evils" (though still an evil.)


You don't have to be a Democrat or Republican you know. I personally see them as too similar and too powerful. What we need to do is dissolve all the political parties, because this will continue to happen. George Washington said that political parties distract the government from it's duties.

I consider myself a Libertarian minarchist even though I don't vote and don't support parties. I would only vote Libertarian if they promised to dissolve themselves after they win the election.
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ralfikk123
Waffle

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:45 am 
 

Slacktivism, yeah!
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Dux_Saxoniae
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:56 am
Posts: 102
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:09 pm 
 

Ritual_Suicide wrote:
If Jesus were alive today spreading the same message he did in the bible, people like Santorum (and apparently Dave Mustaine) would call him a communist.

...Which would not be too far from the truth actually.

Yep. Good news to the poor, freedom for the prisoners, setting the oppressed free (Luke 4:16-22) - the Religious Right wouldn't be very fond of Jesus.

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pbsisbad
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:39 pm
Posts: 451
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:41 am 
 

ralfikk123 wrote:
Slacktivism, yeah!

Seems like the only thing I can do these days. :(
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ChurningtheMaelstrom
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:36 pm
Posts: 240
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:06 am 
 

I say C.C. Deville for president.
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Goatfangs
Wicker Mantis

Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:02 pm
Posts: 2214
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:17 am 
 

I like that the Republican primary is turning out into such a hard fought battle. I want whoever comes out of this to be scared and underfunded when he comes up against Obama, then falls flat on his face in November. None of the candidates are worthy to be President, I'd much rather four more years of Obama.
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DemonHellSpawn
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:06 am
Posts: 595
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:42 am 
 

americanholocaust wrote:
Santorum is crazy. He blamed hurricane Katrina on God's wrath because women wanted equal pay in the work force. (paraphrasing, not exaggerating)


Woah, source please.
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Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:46 pm 
 

Whoever it is that Ted Nugent votes for is the one who is gonna win!!!
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Errebuss
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:07 pm
Posts: 548
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:32 pm 
 

DemonHellSpawn wrote:
americanholocaust wrote:
Santorum is crazy. He blamed hurricane Katrina on God's wrath because women wanted equal pay in the work force. (paraphrasing, not exaggerating)


Woah, source please.


Yeah, I'm calling bullshit until either audio or video of this quote is actually posted. Text taken from a blog is not acceptable, since I've seen how often even senior members of the board seem to be unfamiliar with comedy/satire. *cough* Tyranny of Tradition *cough*

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Expedience
Veteran

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:22 am
Posts: 3756
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:45 pm 
 

I'm not american, but I'd like to see this Santorum guy win simply because it would be more entertaining. I miss reading about Bush's ridiculous antics and statements in the paper every day.

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Unifying_Disorder
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:52 pm
Posts: 992
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:01 pm 
 

I agree. I'd like to see a source. Even if he did say that, it could have been sarcastic. People do that sometimes, even politicians.

I like how Santorum seems to genuinely believe what he says. I think you can respect someone with integrity, especially internal integrity. I find that refreshing. On the other hand, no candidate is perfect. His so called "hawkish" stance against Iran concerns me a little bit. I don't think they should have "the bomb" either, but I think we should tread lightly. I definitely don't want another World war started over this.
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Ritual_Suicide
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:39 am
Posts: 379
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:18 pm 
 

http://www.youtube.com/user/SantorumExp ... ture=watch

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Errebuss
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:07 pm
Posts: 548
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:28 pm 
 

^^Yeah, some of those quotes were funny. At the same time, you could make a similar video from Romney, Gingrich, Obama, or Ron Paul.

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thomash
Metal Philosopher

Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 6:31 pm
Posts: 1855
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:14 pm 
 

Rick Santorum increasingly reminds me of Travis Marshall from Dexter. And, since the Republican party seems to actually be swinging in favor of Santorum right now, it seems that there's a chance that the Republican party may
Spoiler: show
actually be about to run a serial killer for president!!


DUN DUN DUNNNNN!

:o

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Krosstika
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:17 pm
Posts: 31
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:19 pm 
 

Here's some more icing on the cake: http://legacy.roadrunnerrecords.com/bla ... mID=169975

Dave Mustaine opposes gay marriage. Shocker.

I'm starting to believe he exists just to parody the right-wing Christian stereotype.

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OzzyApu
Metal freak

Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:11 am
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Location: Seattle, United States
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:33 pm 
 

Dave can believe what he wants to believe. There's no problem with that, and if you like his music but disagree with his viewpoints, then that shouldn't be grounds for not liking the music. It's not that extreme compared to people that don't agree with NS bands but continue to listen to their music (i.e. me loving Nokturnal Mortum but not agreeing with the band's views on race). It's the people that do hold anti-gay viewpoints that are in power and want to push that as law where the problem is.
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Animicantus
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:43 pm 
 

If Santorum wins, I will be ashamed to call myself American. He's retarded, and that's putting it nicely. I'm ashamed to say he's from my state. He's absolutely out of touch with most American people. The fact that we have a serious presidential candidate that believes science is evil and global warming is a liberal conspiracy (Source) is scary. The fact that he wants to make birth control illegal is absolutely disgusting (Source. I can't stand this man. Obama may not be phenomenal but holy shit, he looks like fucking George Washington compared to Rick Santorum. Fuck Rick Santorum.
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ModusOperandi
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 12:52 am
Posts: 629
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:18 pm 
 

OzzyApu wrote:
Dave can believe what he wants to believe. There's no problem with that, and if you like his music but disagree with his viewpoints, then that shouldn't be grounds for not liking the music.


If he continues to put out Ambien substitutes for albums it will be. How about this, Mustaine: Turn some of that misguided anger towards your music and write something inspired and interesting again. I can put aside your nonsensical worldview and xenophobia if you can rock like you used to instead of rehashing the Take No Prisoners modulation and other refried riffs over and over again. He's copied himself in recent albums more than Jeff Waters has in Annihilator, and that's quite a feat. It's his right to have his beliefs, and it's my right to tell him and everyone who thinks like him that it's damning to your memory as a person to be on the wrong side of history while the rest of us move forward and evolve. Does his stance surprise me? Not in the slightest. But for someone to be clamoring for a high-selling album or a meaningless award as he's done for years now instead of beating his peers with a quality output, it's not wise to potentially alienate a large portion of your fanbase so divisively.
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BlindTortureKill
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:57 am
Posts: 1219
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:15 pm 
 

ModusOperandi wrote:
OzzyApu wrote:
Dave can believe what he wants to believe. There's no problem with that, and if you like his music but disagree with his viewpoints, then that shouldn't be grounds for not liking the music.


If he continues to put out Ambien substitutes for albums it will be..


His first wrinkle, no doubt, gave him his very first philosophical thought, scaring him deeply and insuring his to-be infection with the midlife-crisis-born-again virus, to turn into a blubbering, impressionable, out-of-touch whino. (see also, Chuck Norris)

I'm absolutely positive, should he start doing crack again and grow back his balls, Megadeth's live shows and output would improve twicefold.

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Oxenkiller
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:42 am
Posts: 1313
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:02 pm 
 

There is something to be said for liking a band/musician for their music and disagreeing with their personal views. But as a fan, sometimes you WANT to be able to identify with the artist as a person, with what they stand for. When they spout off ignorant crap or support politicians who spout off ignorant crap, as a fan you find it much harder to identify with the person. Which hurts their standing from a fanbase perspective; if I can't identify with someone's extreme/controversial views, it is harder to get into their music.

Or, you might end up with the same argument people use for people like Varg Vikerness. Now, I think that Vikerness's music is for the most part, more interesting than Mustaine's, at least, moreso than anything Dave has written in the last 20 years or so. So I have less problem liking Burzum than Megadeth, even though I detest Vikerness AS A PERSON more than Mustaine (lets face it, Varg's views are certainly more controversial than Dave's!) If that makes sense. The combination of Dave's mediocre music and questionable viewpoints just kills it for me. I recently read his autobiography and really wanted to like Megadeth again, like I did when I was younger. But someone who subscribes to that set of views, not just "conservative" so much as aggressively moronic and counterproductive to modern society, then I just cant respect the guy. Now I have known plenty of people who make crappy music but seem to have their heads on straight when it comes to their world view. Whole different argument though.

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Vlachos
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:11 am
Posts: 1405
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:13 pm 
 

ModusOperandi wrote:
OzzyApu wrote:
Dave can believe what he wants to believe. There's no problem with that, and if you like his music but disagree with his viewpoints, then that shouldn't be grounds for not liking the music.


If he continues to put out Ambien substitutes for albums it will be.

Why do you only have like 100 posts? Great line.
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Earthcubed
Peregrinus sine aetate

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:44 am
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Location: Orocarni
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:48 pm 
 

"Musicians endorsing controversial political figure"


Controversial? Hardly. He is looked at as being very much in the mainstream of the social conservative/"compassionate conservative" wing of the Republican party, which is to say he is within the mainstream of the most important electoral element of said party. Oh, would that he was actually considered controversial. His stance on gays is completely cracked out, even by party line Republican standards. He doesn't just oppose gay marriage, he opposes gay sex---he has stated that he thinks sodomy laws should be reinstated. Which would have the practical effect of imprisoning about 18 million people for harmless activity taking place in the bedroom.


Just imagine a more eloquent Bush and that's pretty much what Santorum's ideal presidency is. So basically, he's a big-government liberal on fiscal issues and a bigoted zealot on social issues, with an unprincipled hawkish stance on foreign policy.
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Errebuss
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 10:07 pm
Posts: 548
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 12:21 am 
 

Krosstika wrote:
Here's some more icing on the cake: http://legacy.roadrunnerrecords.com/bla ... mID=169975

Dave Mustaine opposes gay marriage. Shocker.


Even "ultra-liberal" Californians voted against gay marriage. Ironically, NOTHING has been controversial in this entire thread, which I find extremely strange for a heavy metal forum where people listen to music about satanism, murder, cannibals, rape, etc.

Also, how is Rick Santorum being called some fringe candidate? He's not saying anything that about 50% of Americans don't also believe. Clearly, if your liberal, you won't like him or agree with him. But that doesn't make him some extremist.

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