Necros Christos. Musically, yes. Can't get past the vocals.

Metallica - James Hetfield.

Guy just can't sing these days. My dishwasher sounds better.

The vocals are one of my absolute favourite things about the band. Dark and monstrous sounding, but perfectly comprehensible delivery. On the other hand I wish they would speed things up a little more sometimes.

You're right. I didn't even come to realize how truly bad he was until I saw that new Metallica material was played in Drop C.


I'm not a great guitarist by any means, but the riff is a joke in terms of complexity. Bob Rock guiding them through the whole process is hilarious too. These guys are musicians, right?

^ I bet they acted that scene for the drama of it.

I dunno, after a long rehearsal even really simple riffs can prove tricky (possibly because people are thinking too much about them). Hardly seems like a fair way to judge a musician.

The "rasp" style of black metal vocals (think Abbath's or Shagrath's style) does nothing for me. I personally find it very annoying, and I tend to prefer when vocalists use exclusively high screams, like Varg Vikernes or V.I.T.R.I.O.L.

Both Lars and James ruin Metallica for me.
Glen's lyrics ruin Deicide.How many times can you have the same fuck god theme and keep it interesting.
The guy who did the clean vocals on the last Dimmu record.Vortex was 1000 times better.
Zakk Wylde ruins everything he touches for me.I can't stand his almost criminal over use of pinch harmonics.
Childern of Bodom-I would love that band if they lost the keyboard solos.

Arckanum's albums like Antikosmos and ÞÞÞÞÞÞÞÞÞÞÞ would've benefitted from the touch of some passionate screamer like Corvus or Hoath Torog. I'm not excessively keen on Arckanum's half-screamed, half shouted vocals.

Even though I like Megadeth, Dave Mustaine is not a good vocalist by any stretch of the imagination. It also doesn't help that he's only gotten worse with time.

For about three or four albums, apparently.

I'll reduce that to two, really.

I am. In fact stuff like this, and Aldrahn's performance on the first Dodheimsgard album, are among my favourite vocals in all of BM. Then again, it's hard for me to be objective about something like ÞÞÞÞÞÞÞÞÞÞÞ, which I consider to be some of the absolute best black metal to materialise in many many years (and I'm not one of those people who looks down his nose at the genre's modern purveyors exactly, though I don't go out of my way to hear much of it, admittedly)...

But you know, when we talk of extreme vocals, we enter a particularly interesting subjective territory, because although one can have poor technique and so on, especially in a live delivery, it's a lot more difficult to say anything about them other than "well, they sound cool"/"appropriate for what the band is playing", or, "they just don't sound adequate". It's not the same as a guitarist hitting bad notes, coming up with poor riffs, or even a more melodious singer having insufficient range or power. SOmetimes, as in the case with for example the first Adramalech album, a kind of non-aggressive but still growled vocal delivery just seems to be what is required.

On the other hand I think Shamattae (sp?) of Arckanum is quite passionate myself...

I didn't mean to imply Shamaatae wasn't at all passionate, though there are many vocalists who are more so. The emphasis is on screamer, and of course, passionate delivery is a necessity for music like Arckanum's.

I tend to like the kinds of vocalists who show technical skill in their craft, although my like towards them does not directly come from enjoyment of a technically challenging performance. They are inherently better sounding, as a rule. Sloppier styles have their place of course, but I generally find little enjoyment from those. Shamaatae is not half bad at all, of course, and previous albums have shown (or so I recall) his capability of delivering regular black metal screams. Still, his performances have never been up to par with the best, and I would've preferred to hear that best.

Zakk Wylde - Too many pinch harmonics!

It's better when he plays acoustic - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HG-nKIXMis&feature=fvst
The singing is a bit off though.

I tend to get irritated by clean singers who can't sing. I actually don't have as strong a reaction to bad screamers or growlers (unless they sound like -core vocalists, but some of that may be a very strong negative association), but bad singers really grate on my nerves. That's probably a major contributing factor in my selectivity with regard to power metal bands but it's not limited to that.

Hell, even though Black Sabbath is my favorite band of all time, I sometimes can't stomach their Ozzy-era stuff because Ozzy is just so unbelievably bad. I can't believe they released eight albums with that talentless hack. Brocas Helm also comes to mind; Bobbie Wright is a good guitarist but they need to get a different singer.

About Dream Theater; I can't really think of any member that would ''ruin'' them. I'm definitely not a big Petruci fan though: his riffs are decent at best and his solos rarely catch my attention. If anything, some of his are quite boring as hell to me. ''Under a Glass Moon'' features some cool energetic riffing, but once the solo kicks in I'm lost for a while. I agree that DT's debut features him at his best; some of the leads are pretty damn cool and not shredding for the sake of shredding (''A Fortune in Lies'', ''Aferlife'') while some of his riffs have some punch to them as well.

Did Hammett actually write this riff, or is he just the sucker performing it?

Well, it says "All songs written and composed by James Hetfield, Lars Ulrich, Kirk Hammett and Bob Rock", so he might have. But I'm doubtful - on the earlier albums, James wrote the riffs and Kirk just played the solos (from what I understand, wish I could find the source for that), and since St. Anger has no solos, I'm not sure exactly what Kirk played on that album. Either way, I don't mind simple riffs, but that goes a bit TOO far. Especially when it's drop C'd into oblivion and Kirk has trouble playing it at first.

Dark Fortress's vocalist after Azathoth left in '04. . . never was the same again
Azathoth was basically the German version of Shagrath.

I'm sorry, people, but Geddy Lee from Rush. It's probably from watching Beavis and Butthead, but I just can't seem to get into a Rush song once Geddy comes on with his weird shrieking vocals, and I'm fine with Jon Anderson. Like, the music is pretty good, but then vox...nope.

I have to agree with this, I love the music on the early albums but Ozzy's vocals are what put me off (I could never pinpoint what it was until I listened to a non-Ozzy Sabbath album (Headless Cross I think).

Marco of Nightwish, comes to mind I've only ever slightly liked one song he's sang on for them (Phantom of the Opera cover), I prefered Tuomas' clear vocals over his.

Kevin Talley from Daath. Simply, i can't stand that fag, is a total douchebag. Shame, because he plays well.

Holy shit, I could not possibly disagree more. Dax has a great voice and Acid Bath lyrics are some of the few in metal actually worth paying attention too.

Anyways... Never cared too much for Ben Falgoust's vocals in Goatwhore. Which is strange since I don't mind him in Soilent Green.

Obviously it's not the best way to gauge him as a musician, but it's funny to watch such an established guitarist get stuck on one of the simplest metal riffs I've ever heard, even more particularly so when it's played in Drop C.

Yeah! I can't stand Marco's vocals. Every time I hear him I turn the song off. I don't comprehend how people enjoy it.

Can't stand the crying on Gris' albums

Drop C has nothing to do with the particular issue Kirk is having with the riff, so stop emphasising the drop C-ness of it since it's not relevant. Drop tunings make power chords easier to play in rapid succession, yes, but Kirk's problem is obviously the rhythm and not the power chords.

satch didnt teach him triplets

Because he's one of the greatest metal singers? Love his voice.

Vinterriket songs such as this with terrible vocals: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnSLW-_3q6Q

He'd eventually improve on them, but this isn't listenable.

I have to say Klaus Meine, because his nasally voice sounds like a joke. The closest I've come to enjoying Scorpions is Taken by Force, Lovedrive and Blackout, but, despite some very good songs, I cannot get into this band, even after years and years of trying, and it's nothing other than the vocals that is putting me off.

Seriously, I'd compare Scorpions with a very good looking woman... who happens to have a penis.

Pleasure To Kill is a great album, but Michael Wulf's scattershot guitar solos are pretty damn annoying at times. They're even worse in Sodom's Obssessed By Cruelty though...they almost completely ruin that album, well, along with the nasty production.

Wulf did not play on Pleasure to Kill.

I second this. I don't get why people criticize him.

Sometimes I can kind of see how he would annoy people. But he's still one of the best singers out there. Just frigging amazing tone, great charisma, etc. Nobody else sounds like him.

Well, yeah, his timbre might sound a bit grating for some listeners, but besides that, I don't see any problem with his voice. Like you say; great tone, lots of personality, a fuckton of power and a decent range. An ideal metal singer, that is.

Hah I never realized Marco was criticized for his vocals. I thought between Tarot and the little bits in Nightwish that he had proven his medals. He's a fantastic singer and Nightwish might have been a better band if they had just utilized him fully from the get go.

You say that like timbre is a marginal characteristic of someone's singing voice.

Well, yeah, wrong word, but you know exactly what I meant with that.