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It'd be the best thing for Black Sabbath since the Heaven and Hell tour. Tony Martin may only be a bit 'worse' than Ronnie James Dio, but that's like comparing 23-carat gold to 24-carat gold. They are both awesome vocalists, and Tony Martin is criminally underrated. Ozzy Osbourne on the other hand, would be just spoiled butter. Criminally overrated spoiled butter.

So this reunion went with butter instead of gold. Pfft. I don't have high expectations for the new album with Ozzy on vocals, though I do hope it turns out good and has plenty of classic Iommi riffs.

Thanks for the support, Goatfangs. Looks like you're also one of those rare people (including me) that believe that the fact that some of the Tony Martin material (especially Headless Cross) is not adored by the masses is one of the biggest tragedies in all of metal. Which it is.

i would also like to get thrown into that group. headless cross/cross purposes/tyr/the shining are all criminally underrated as is tony martin as a vocalist.

Hear, hear! Although I haven't heard 'Headless Cross' yet, I can say that 'The Eternal Idol' is fucking brilliant, and Tony Martin is an outstanding singer. I'd be all for a Black Sabbath reunion with him at the helm.

I support all of the above. Tony Martin is an awesome vocalist, and it's amazing how little recognition his output with Sabbath gets in comparison to what it deserves.

It makes me happy to see there are a lot of Tony Martin fans on here. Great singer who put out some amazing Sabbath album.

Seems like we all obviously prefer Tony Martin's glorious "NIGHTWING FLIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIES AGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIN!!!" over Ozzy's current brainless droning. So yeah.

I'm with you guys about the Tony Martin appreciation and reunion plan.

I don't want to sound cynical but this comeback was dubious from the start, considering all the backpedaling it involved from multiple sides, and I'm actually surprised it took this loing for it to start falling apart. I remember several said they were placing their bets on Ward to bow out first, considering his precedents, and - presto! - in a couple of days Ward starts questioning his involvement, the others let the possibility of carrying on without him, and now we're staring at the "That's all folks!" screen already.

Whichever way you look at it, it's a shame to behold.

I would kill for a Tony Martin reunion, what a set of pipes. Tyr kicks my ass every time, and his other others were at least "great"

I know when Heaven & Hell first came into existence Dio and Iommi had originally wanted to get Vinnie Appice's older brother. Maybe he's still a possibility?

I disagree with the posts on this page. A Tony Martin reunion is all well and good and I'm certainly a fan of every era of Sabbath (except for Seventh Star, yuck), but all I want to see is the original legendary lineup in person. I've brought this up before: I don't care if they don't sound great, I don't care how old they are and I don't care if the new album is a dud, these are the guys who released Black Sabbath 42 years ago. That's the appeal for me, and anything more is a bonus.

I missed out on seeing Heaven & Hell and now the opportunity's gone. It might be the same now since Bill Ward says he feels that he's not being treated fairly (which I can and should accept, nobody knows the details). His exclusion from the performances might be of the least importance compared to the other three, but it still would be a conspicuous omission. I'll take what I can get at this point.

I agree. If they sounded good it would be a bonus, but it would still have been great either way. It's a real shame, and while we can't cast judgment on either party from the outside I can imagine Bill being made to feel like he's the band's least valuable member.

Honestly, I can't see how Bill Ward matters in the band. He's not like some drum guru that no one can copy, and as far as I know he doesn't contribute very much, if at all, to the songwriting. Now if Geezer, Ozzy or Iommi were to quit, that'd be shitty.

All of this. As much as Tony Martin is good and some of his albums are, it's still quite inferior to any classic Sabbath. The original lineup is fucking legendary, that's all I care for honestly.

I don't know if Bill Ward is playing the bitch or anything, but it'd be understandable for him to get his contribution and importance downplayed. There's a lot of money in, Ozzy (or Sharon) so I was a bit naive to think it would happen so "easily" (as I'm sure it wasn't all that easy before the announcement). Still, I find Ozzy's contribution overblown comparatively to Bill or even the whole band. Ozzy didn't even write his lyrics, but it doesn't mean he wasn't important, they all were. Even if Bill sucks now (he doesn't seem in the best of shapes), I still want to see and hear the one who abused his kit on the classic Sabbath stuff, he was part of the sound. Just listen to the first albums again and check the drumming, he was totally awesome!

And personally, even if Ozzy is obviously the less talented of Sabbath's singers, he's still my favourite for aesthetical reasons. I don't get why he's so bashed in reunion discussions.

No one sounded like him back in the day. Okay, it's not the drums that drives a song, but still. And Ozzy sure doesn't contribute to anything except his voice in itself, and I wouldn't be surprised some would imitate him better in his early days than Ozzy himself now. It was Geezer who wrote the lyrics, that's one of the reasons they were happy to get Dio, because he wrote his own lyrics.

I still can't get my head around the fact that people would voluntarily want to go and see this reunion for what I can only refer to as "nostalgic" reasons. Without wanting to get into a shit-slinging argument over it, because I do understand those reasons, it just seems to me that turning up to see four old blokes desperately trying to play those songs can only be disappointing. Sure, Geezer and Tony (illness depending) can certainly still play, but Ozzy/Ward are pretty much a liability live, and have been since the last reunion (10+ years ago??). I don't get it, I must admit. Heaven and Hell was composed of musicians still close to the top of their game: that made sense.

Bill Wards jazzy drumming style is not something I have ever heard copied successfully and is a tremendous part of the early Sabbath sound. I would go so far as to say that the records would be kind of boring with a straight forward rock drummer.

But nowadays I would be extremely surprised if Black Sabbath can't find someone who can copy his style completely.

It wouldn't be for me, and I don't think they're at the point where their blood sugar drastically drops from playing an instrument or singing... okay, I'm not completely sold on Ward, but it is supposed to be a reunion.

I'll put it this way: I think of Sabbath how most people think of The Beatles. Dio is Lennon, Ozzy and Tony are tied for McCartney (my personal favourite, by the way), Geezer is Harrison without a head full of pudding (and alive) and Bill Ward is Ringo except he can play the drums and sing. Lennon's dead, but anyone who's a fan of The Beatles would gladly watch Paul under any circumstances.


Ozzy's the most important member of the band from a mainstream perspective, still sounds like himself even if people think it's not good, is charismatic and has a great stage presence. I've seen and heard Ozzy fuck up royally live in the '70s due to his dyslexia, and it still ruled.


I definitely agree with this. It didn't matter at all that they weren't the most important part of Sabbath's legacy because ALL of the material was great and they sounded great. I would've seen either version for different reasons, though. That's all.


Because they're all cunts, Johnny. Cunts.

If you care about this shit you're definitely not living in 2012. Black Sabbath is a thing of the past. It will NEVER be the real Black Sabbath again. No matter who is in the "band"

He's pretty good, but have you guys heard live stuff from around then? He often ends up sounding disturbingly like Bonn Jovi. I don't know, I think he does the really dark, moody stuff pretty well but the more upbeat songs don't work at all.

I don't really remember this.....

So he's officially out.

http://musicfeeds.com.au/news/black-sab ... -the-boot/

How does that cunt Sharon have the power to do this really?

I called her "Satan" for a reason.

So Bill Ward acts like a fifteen year-old throwing a temper tantrum, and Sharon is the bad guy in this? Look, I don't like the bitch any more than any of you, but if Bill hadn't gotten hung up on the money (of which he would have earned PLENTY, I'm sure) and instead jumped on the one promising career opportunity he's had in the last decade, none of this would have been a problem.

I'm actually a little disappointed that they aren't pulling in Vinny Appice (if that article is to be believed), since it's a little unfair to have had him along only because of Dio and then drop him first chance they get, but I guess Ozzy's drummer will be fine.

Dude, Bill Ward is a multimillionaire. It's about respect, not money. He didn't act like a 15-year-old at all, I thought his message regarding the contract was actually very classy and quite dignified. He didn't name names and didn't get angry at all, merely said that he didn't feel the contract he was handed was respectful and didn't feel it met his needs, but if the produced a contract that did, he'd sign it.

Ward was (apparently) not getting the same treatment as the rest of the members, something very inappropiate considering that he's A FREAKING FOUNDING MEMBER OF THE BAND. He has all the rights to complain. Damn, I'd even say he has more of a right to complain about ANYTHING than Ozzy himself.

Everything is going according to plan. Now give it a couple of months and Tony Iommi will be replaced by Zakk Wylde, and we'll be all set.

Edit: Oh, and if anyone complains ever again, we'll have their parts on the old albums re-recorded by the new line-up. And I'll sue every last one of you "fans" who disagree.

Love you all. The Osbournes (c).

He only wrote the majority of the lyrics for the classic era. Oh, and did a fair job on drums to boot.

I don't think Ward will be in, and even if Sharon ends up as having been behind it all, this is such a line of bullshit from that last link:


Really? The remaining three who are obstensibly their own bosses are sitting around, and then Sharon walks in and says, "Bill's fired" and promptly leaves. That's what we're led to believe. Why would Tony and Geezer agree to put up with her shit in the first place? I think some websites are just trying to capitalize on a story which hasn't advanced much since Ward's Facebook status.

haha, only zakk wylde was already replaced a couple of years ago!

i'm all for the idea of getting tony martin back in. ozzy's dead but he won't lie down. saw him live with his solo band a few years back and it was dismal. no need to sully their name by rubbing it through the dirt with his shot voice and his wife's management.

I think this whole thing has less to do with Bill Ward returning to play on the record/tour than it does about Ozzy's wife wanting a bigger slice of the pie (i.e. money). She's always contended that money's important to them. Even Ozzy's hinted at Sharon's "buying habits" in different interviews he's given. I'm glad Bill isn't willing to just close his eyes and sign something he's not comfortable with, but it does suck if he won't be able to participate in the reunion album and tour, because the man, for better or worse, is a monster behind the drums. My hope is that something is amended so he can sign on and make the Sabbath reunion a true one.

Geezer wrote the lyrics, not Bill.

And now we are at the predictable conclusion of this story. Obviously Sharon Osbourne is the person putting together this tour and since she controls Ozzy, she controls the reunion and everything related to it. Honestly, whoever they replaced Ward with is probably plenty good. Usually they don't put people who suck in Ozzy's band, and instead hire super competent session musician types. But c'mon, this was never going to result in some sort of new classic record.

Not with Ozzy 'singing' (read: Ozzy's corpse's autotuned moaning), no.

Now that this whole thing has had time to sink in, it's making me miss Dio all the much more...

"Black Sabbath" on those records already sounds dangerously close to Bon Jovi.

The most recent chapter in this soap opera can be read here:
http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbe ... mID=169439

That was pretty interesting, if predictable. It actually got me pretty excited:



Fuckin' eh. I do feel sorry for Bill, of course, but Iommi and Geezer have always been my favourite members and as long as its them up there jamming with any sort of good singer/Ozzy Osbourne then, to me, it's Black Sabbath. I don't really care about the original line up reuniting in the present day, I just want Black Sabbath to be active and touring and making music.

I totally understand Ward's son's frustration, but he basically came off as a butthurt crybaby in that article. Then again, that's how I'd probably come off if I was Ward's son right now since this whole thing looks like a glaring injustice. I'm also a bit conflicted about the whole situation and don't really know where I stand. I have only the deepest respect for Bill Ward for having the balls not to sign a contract that he feels compromises his dignity as a musician, but at the same time, the band is going to carry on with or without him. When Sabbath drop their new album and tour the world, if I was Ward I don't know what else I'd feel other than painful regret. I guess it's just a damned shame they don't seem to be able to come to some sort of compromise. I just wish they'd talk it through like normal human beings and I also wish Sharon Osbourne kept her fucking nose out of things.

Now let's get to the part that really pisses me off. So they've got Tommy Clufetos from Ozzy's band to 'temporarily' replace Ward? Now that, my friends, is fucking retarded. Not only is this guy old enough to be any of the members' son, but he has zero history with Black Sabbath and hasn't been involved in any good music. What happened to Appice? What the fuck happened to Appice? I bet this is your fault, Sharon, isn't it? It seems useless to remain optimistic about Ward's situation since it seems to just keep going from bad to worse, so I'm just going to sit back for now and see how things unfold.

Didn't Mike Bordin fill in for Bill Ward for a large chunk of dates the last time they did a reunion?

Sharon must be thinking something like "mwa-ha-ha, I got him by the balls... if he doesn't submit to my termns, he will regret this for the rest of his sorry life and we ... I mean, I, will launch a campaign so the fans think he was the one who fucked it all up... If he doesn't bow down to my will and my lawyers, he'll die of sadness, regret and moral pain. I'll make him look like a decorative figure... because that's what he is for me... ANY drummer can replace him, mwa-ha-ha."