Is there a difference in how profound the trips are between shrooms and acid? I was talking to a friend last night who said that shrooms literally changes you permanently but for the better, and I'm not so sure if acid does the same thing.

It's all subjective. I personally find shrooms to be more existentially throttling but there is no cut and dry answer.

I find acid to be more powerful than shrooms. It also left a much bigger print in my thinking process. If either of them changed me at all, it'd be lsd.

What kind of mushrooms did you try? Psilocybe cubensis? Those are relatively weak in my experience, there are much more powerful species out there. As LSD vs. shrooms, I view them as two sides of the same coin.

I've done shrooms multiple time, and I have really no idea what species they were to be honest. Like any kind of recreational drug, they all had varying results. One time I took a quarter and an eighth and tripped for a day and a half. Another time I took an eighth and didn't feel much more than a stomach ache and slight dizziness.

I've done acid a couple times, and it always seems to be more intense, and I feel like I leave the expierence with something special. I am not the kind of person that sees full on hallucinations. I wish I did, but in my experience with LSD and mushrooms, I usually only get mild visuals, tunnel vision, changes in depth perception, certain surfaces seem to bend slightly. But I have never seen purple elephants or a chair turn into a thousand snakes or anything like that. I am starting to believe it is so placebo that I just don't have it in me.

I know I meantioned it in the freeforall... but it fits here.

A friend who used to play bass in a few of my bands some times ago overdosed and died Xmas eve. He only casually used pills, casually used one Opana that night and that was it.

One? How strong was it? They range from 5 to 50 mg extended release, neither capable of causing an overdose.

No idea all I know he was drinking at the time. Either way he is dead.

Fucking around with pills can be really dangerous. I've never done them EVER for that reason. I have seen oxy and opanas ruin the community I live in, and that is enough of a deterance to keep me clean from them. But, I am sorry for your loss, my friend. My heart goes out to you, his friends and his family. It is a horrible thing to lose someone to something like that, especially if it was recreational, and just one pill. Sorry again, bro.

I've been smoking cannabinoids daily for around a year now(usually just in the evening before I go to bed), because I'm a rather small guy, I only take 2-3 puffs off a bowl at a time (it's super easy for me to get panic attacks from bud), I'd consider that to be "responsible" drug use since I don't burn through a whole gram in 2 nights, it just helps me calm down and put my depression outta my mind for a couple hours. Never tried any psychedelics or anything along those lines, I've heard alotta crazy stories about things people'll do on acid... Even though I doubt I'd ever try em, DMT has really piqued my interest lately, it's apparently like a life changing drug, and releases the same chemical that your brain releases right before you die.

I sometimes take xanax for anxiety and oxy whenever I'm feeling really shitty and upset about something. It hasn't gotten out of hand as I only take them to deal with problems. I've been doing xanax recently because of how stressed out I've been over finding a job, and the amount of pressure my parents put on me. Its really helpful in controlling my nerves and helps me relax over a variety of things.

Appreciate the words. the worst part is he got it from his mother... as in she gave it to him as a xmas party favor since she is a junkie as well. The first signs of an od was apparent ...had trouble breathing, couldn't swallow.... yet no one noticed and he went to bed and that was it. The drummer who was there told me that some days after.

So that's 3 drug related deaths of people I knew last year. All pill/painkiller related.

Dude, that's an incredibly irresponsible thing to say. Snorting 50 mg of opana is like snorting 200 mg of oxycodone. Easily enough to kill someone with no tolerance to opiates, or even a low tolerance. Even just eating the opana is like eating 100 mg of oxycodone, again a possibly dangerous dose if the person isn't tolerant. Throw another depressant like a benzo or alcohol into the mix and you have a recipe for disaster.

AFAIK, Opana tops out at 40 mg. It's besides the point though, as 160 or 80 mg of oxycodone could still be dangerous to certain individuals. There are plans to release a 50 mg extended release pill.

I find it interesting when this topic of conversation starts up. I drink, and have done a few of the more widely available psychadelics, and can easily say that in whole they have been positive experiences for me, and I enjoy them all thoroughly. I love my tequila, and I love my friend the mushroom on occasion, and salvia was... interesting... the one time i had supply.

But in a perfect world I wish all of the above were illegal, banned, or didn't exist.

Hugely hypocritical, I know, but my main reason behind it is that I guess i generally don't trust everyone else to use the drug responsibly. It's definitely an arrogant statement, I apologize. Nahsil mentions that he trusts himself to drive mid-trip. I am not inside his head, and I don't know what effect his trip is having on his depth perception, or his ability to drive in a straight line. It would make me uncomfortable if someone pointed out that the guy in the lane next to me had taken some acid before hitting the roads. I think that being in control of a high speed vehicle should not be something you do while stoned simply I don't know you, and I don't trust you to be a safe driver.

I think this can extend to booze easily, and it's generally a good idea that "under the influence" driving laws are unsafe. But say you legalize psychs, but obviously keep the 'under the influence' laws. There is always going to be that guy who gets fucked and hops behind the wheel. Same old story you've heard through the news, someone gets killed, except now the driver was stoned, goes to jail, everyone shakes their head and moves on. I think that the risk outweighs the reward here, and I would gladly give a lifetime of drinking and getting high to keep a loved one alive. If you can save someone's life with the nonexistence of these 'life enhancing drugs' which aren't exactly necessary for function, then why not?



But this isn't a perfect world, and clearly more realistic solutions need to be put into place. I think in the imperfect world we live in, legalization of the relatively more harmless drugs would be a more efficient method of reducing total suffering (speaking of total increasedutility, I suppose). This kind of thing isn't exactly a novel idea, but if licensing and rudimentary monitoring were implemented, i think we would see an overall increase in quality of product, price, and with careful oversight, more careful use. Prohibition era crime rates skyrocketed, and i think that it would be worth looking into legalization of the less 'destructive' drugs (meaning less harmful to the person using them, and those around them).



FYI, My evidence here is completely anecdotal, and I have little experience with less common drugs. I had a hard time trying to get what I meant in this post, but my TL;DR is: I still think that in a perfect world, booze and drugs wouldn't exist, as the 'total happiness' is negative, regardless of those who are responsible with their intake, simply because of the general stupidity of humanity.

Whoa wait, where did I say that?

I've only ever driven like 12 or 13 hours after taking some acid, when I had 0 visuals and wasn't really tripping anymore.

There was one time where my gf drove on 4-aco-dmt (not during the peak), but there were 3 people in the car and we were all focusing on helping her drive and we were sober enough to do it. I wouldn't drive if I was actually tripping and getting nutty visuals and stuff. In this case, I was stuck out at a lake with no food and it had gotten really awkward because a friend that was tripping with my gf and I had a crush on me. First time I ever realized she had a crush on me was when I was tripping on acid, as an interesting side note. She told my gf a while later.

Sorry, my mistake, I mis-paraphrased your post here: link

In a "perfect" world, wouldn't people avoid driving under the influence regardless of the circumstances, and plan accordingly?

That's awful, man. She understood the danger and gave it to him anyway. If you want to do any form of substance, then that is your decision, but for a parent to solicit that kind of behavior, especially one that has been there, that is just fucked up..

Snorting obviously isn't responsible use. Opiates are absorbed at a much higher rate nasally than orally or sublingually, and are not intended to be taken up the nose. If they were, they would not be sold at such a high dose. And again, taking these things with benzos and alcohol is just not responsible.

If you're not following the instructions for proper administration on the label, then what do you expect? You can't blame the drug. Do you blame the car manufacturer if you crash your car while drunk and controlling the steering wheel with your teeth?

But it's responsible to take medication that wasn't prescribed to you? People snort their pills all the time, and they don't OD unless they think, 'Oh hey I can do this whole pill because rando on the internet said no single Opana (oxymorphone) pill is capable of causing an overdose'.* It's also nice of you to ignore the fact that 50 mg of oxymorphone oral is still equivalent to 100 mg of oxycodone oral (possibly more with incomplete cross tolerance), and that is too much oxycodone for an opiate naive person. Not to mention that different people have different natural thresholds. Two opiate naive people could be given the same dose of a drug and one might have a serious overdose while the other just gets noddy for a few hours. No one is saying that what this young man did was responsible. I just wanted to point out, for the good of anyone reading this thread who may not know a lot about drugs, 50 mg of Opana (and even less) CAN kill you.

You are skirting the issue, trying to act as if you said something other than what you said. You did not mention the "responsibility" factor until it helped you save face. People do mix benzos and opiates a lot**, in fact it is not unheard of for them to be prescribed to the same patient by the same doctor, at the same time. Please, don't make any more statements regarding the potential dangers of any drug until you do a little more research. If you had said something along the lines of, "neither capable of causing an overdose, when used responsibly and as instructed by a licensed physician" then there would be less to discuss. However, that's not what you said.

*Obviously there are multiple reasons for an overdose to occur. Most can be attributed to ignorance, conscious intent, or, indeed, irresponsibility. Then there are the unlucky few who are given a product that is not what it was sold as, victims of prohibition.
**These individuals typically have very large tolerances to both. Mixing depressants is DANGEROUS and one of the easiest ways to achieve respiratory failure.

Um, what? Why must I point out all the stupid things that people can do with pills when talking about the pill itself in relation to its normal pharmacological effect on the body? Would I also be wrong to say 'digital watches are safe' when they can suffocate someone who attempts to strap one around their own neck? Or do I need to provide a footnote listing all the stupid things that should not be done with digital watches in order to exclude them from my original statement?

I could have deleted that portion of my post and my point wouldn't have changed at all. I probably should have. I couldn't let your intellectual dishonesty go unacknowledged, unfortunately.

This thread is clearly about the illicit use of substances for recreational purposes. I'm done replying to you until you actually have something of substance to say, instead of desperately avoiding admitting that you were wrong.

But that seems to be the only point we disagree on. Why the hostility? I fully agree that illicit use of Opana can kill.

Can you cite any deaths from 50mg Opana alone? I'm genuinely interested.

That kidn of things are probably more connected to schizophrenia, wake dreaming and overall fuck-up of the brain than moderate dose of LSD. I assume you'd have to take it often, lots at a time, for a long time, to achieve such a state of fucked-upness.

When you say it puts depression out of your mind for some time, does that mean you become motivated, calm-tempered and active when high? Unless it does, it seems rather pointless to me. But to each their own.

The DMT thing about releasing the same chemical before you die is a myth, as far as I know there's no actual proof. Still a pretty awesome drug from what I've heard.

Also, a lot of the "crazy things people do on psychs" are either myths themselves, or extreme cases, folks who have mental illnesses or whatever. I was really surprised my first time with acid, expecting something ultra intense along the lines of its attached stigma, but it's not at all what a lot of people think.

Damn... You beat me to posting that link. That is a great documentary. From what I've heard about it, it's more of an out of body experience than a hallucinogenic "high".
And regarding the using drugs for depression thing, i don't usually smoke if I know i'll have to get up and do something soon (like later on in the evening when I'm about to go to bed...like now) because I obviously don't get motivated or energized after a hitter or two, it also doubles as a sleep aid since my depression often keeps me up at night, seems like a much safer alternative than some anti depressant goofenthol medication that may or may not make my dick fall off.

Yeah DMT would be interesting, but everyone I talk to says the only kind in the area is the kind you shoot up. Which I didn't know existed, but I am not really cool with for some reason..

You can do anything with DMT that gets it into your bloodstream in sufficient amounts. I'm not sure there's a kind you can only shoot up and not smoke, insufflate, or ingest (with an MAOI). Just be really careful with dosage. I'm not sure anyone has ever actually OD'd on DMT, but you could still have a trip that's way too intense. If you're really interested though, making your own is the way to go.

Making your own??? Do tell.

I'm familiar with Rick's book/documentary on DMT. From what I understand though, his idea is basically conjecture, not reality, and there's not much support for it.

Google it.

Drugs are fucking lame. I know too many junkies. Sucks to see one of them die and come back to life and then continue to be a piece of shit while really nice and awesome people don't get second chances like that.

I'm not straightedge in anyway but its not worth it. Seeing people get addicted to benzos and opiates is terrible. A lot of people that live near a town close by are fucking zombies cause they are all hooked on oxy.

Yeah, fuck those disenfranchised, uneducated losers society spits on, who get pressured into taking addictive and/or adulterated substances that nearly kill them, yet against all odds they manage to climb back to sobriety--forsaking a life of blissful perfection for a cold, dull reality. Those guys suck, and should deffo not be given any accolades for the herculean task they accomplished.

Which addicts are getting pressured into addiction? Most I have come across ended up in that hole of their own will and/or ignorance. Honestly, I see more people being pressured into trying alcohol or cannabis then something like opiates and uppers. Now that I think about it, I see more junkies encouraging people to not go down that path then the reverse.

Definitely agree with you there. The needles and the danger factor keep most people away. My friend still to this day apologizes for shooting me up for the first time w/ H. I tell him not to sweat it and that I had planned on experiencing it one day anyways. There will always be the meek/submissive types and then there will always be the morons who have to try everything for themselves despite common sense.

You should be able to take whatever drugs you like in any amount.

It is not taking drugs that is wrong; it is what some people do while using them. So sure, drink 666 bottles of beer...just have a sober friend drive you home (or hospital). Also, remember and consider the health effects, because most of these illicit drugs are terrible for your health.

Honestly alcohol is probably one of the worst drugs for your body (in addition to being neurotoxic). I'd say it's definitely worse than opiates as far as physical deterioration goes. Meth has it beat, as does maybe very heavy cocaine use. What makes most of these drugs dangerous (except for meth that shit is just terrible for you regardless of how you slice it) is the fact that they are illegal and completely unregulated. Most opiates ODs that aren't a result of combining depressants happen when someone gets dope that is way more potent than what they're use to, and let's face it--most junkies aren't going to test their shit before they bang a bag or two. And some of the shit they get cut with...shoe polish, ugh. Roughly 70% of the coke siezed by the DEA has a veterinary dewormer in it, that's water soluble so it can also be in crack, you can't tell it's there with traditional methods, and it can cause fucked up immune system problems.

I know that alcohol is terrible for you, but you should be allowed to use any and all drugs in any portion. However, I would advise against it.

I am so fucking sick of the double standard of alcohol when compared to other drugs.