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Louie CK
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:29 am
Posts: 59
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:13 am 
 

Thoughts on the vh1 new series Metal Evolution?

It just seems like another false bs special they had to drag into a series for money and where they only talk about like 5 bands max from like 2 genres without even touching folk/orchestral/gothic etc; Just thrash, some death metal like CC but only talk to corpsegrinder, and then they'll do another Gorgoroth interview for the chruch burnings because they'll never put that to rest, and doom like black sabbath.

Oh shit, and when they get to 'modern metal' they'll start calling bands like slapnuts and teenangst sevenfold the torch holders of metal

I even saw him on that metal show saying there were going to be episodes for most subgenres of metal like 'grunge, thrash, hair metal, nu metal...'

So, if you haven't seen it yet then base your opinion on the above...

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Zelkiiro
Pounding the world with a fish of steel

Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:30 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:17 am 
 

I don't think he's even aware folk/symphonic/gothic metal exists.
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aaq
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2007 8:32 am
Posts: 113
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:40 pm 
 

Zelkiiro wrote:
I don't think he's even aware folk/symphonic/gothic metal exists.

Lucky him.

Complaining about this is pretty stupid though. Vh1 hired Sam Dunne to make a series about the bands and genres Vh1 cares about. If you don't like those bands you really shouldn't be watching Vh1.

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Zerberus
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:29 pm
Posts: 1343
Location: Silkeborg, Denmark
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:05 pm 
 

VH1 sucks anyway. Most TV shows don't care for underground genres so they stick to the well-known ones, it's common fact.
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Adept128
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:36 pm
Posts: 270
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:18 pm 
 

I have seen the first two episodes, and I think that it is a great improvement over Metal: A Headbanger's Journey. As opposed to AHJ, it has a focus on the musical progression instead of the culture. The first episode is a great analysis of the outside influences on metal, from classical (along with a cool/cheesy interview with Yngwie Malmsteen), to blues, to the development of distorted guitar in 50s-60s rock.

It does make several missteps in the second episode, covering early American "heavy metal" with distinctly non-metal artists such as Alice Cooper, KISS, and even Ted Nugent, without explicitly stating that none of them were metal (many of the interviews and narraration seemed to refer to it as hard rock though).

It's still a well-made show and Sam Dunn seems to have put a lot of work into it, so I'm at least curious how the rest of the show will hold up.


p.s. Zelkiiro, my guess is he'll probably cover folk/symphonic etc. in the power metal episode.

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Crimson III
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:03 am
Posts: 17
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:22 pm 
 

Were any metal fans into his films? Being a big fan of metal bands from rare and small countries, I thought Global Metal was a travesty.

At least M:AHO was a decent primer for beginners.

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John_Sunlight
President Satan

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
Posts: 4687
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:25 pm 
 

aaq is right, it's not fair to judge Dunn's knowledge and understanding of metal based on this show, because TV has a requisite shittiness quotient he has to meet to be allowed on TV, however, you can judge him for working on a TV show in the first place...
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Louie CK
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:29 am
Posts: 59
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:32 pm 
 

Adept128 wrote:
I have seen the first two episodes, and I think that it is a great improvement over Metal: A Headbanger's Journey. As opposed to AHJ, it has a focus on the musical progression instead of the culture. The first episode is a great analysis of the outside influences on metal, from classical (along with a cool/cheesy interview with Yngwie Malmsteen), to blues, to the development of distorted guitar in 50s-60s rock.

It does make several missteps in the second episode, covering early American "heavy metal" with distinctly non-metal artists such as Alice Cooper, KISS, and even Ted Nugent, without explicitly stating that none of them were metal (many of the interviews and narraration seemed to refer to it as hard rock though).

It's still a well-made show and Sam Dunn seems to have put a lot of work into it, so I'm at least curious how the rest of the show will hold up.


p.s. Zelkiiro, my guess is he'll probably cover folk/symphonic etc. in the power metal episode.


basically this (emphasis on the last part but not the p.s.) and I am looking for to the power metal episode aswell

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ENKC
Veteran

Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:28 pm
Posts: 2717
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:41 pm 
 

Louie CK wrote:
So, if you haven't seen it yet then base your opinion on the above...

Did you type this sentence with a straight face?

I'll base my opinion on seeing the show, if I ever have cause to. Not a fan of Sam Dunn.
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veryevildead
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:39 pm
Posts: 29
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:53 pm 
 

Still have to check it out. Some of the comments are making me not want to rush.

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Aurone
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:17 pm
Posts: 1343
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:55 pm 
 

I tend to notice Sam Dunn and his documentaries on Metal tend to get hated on at MA for not showing Metal the way people here think it should be shown, so I don't think this mini-series will get much love. Persionally, I love his work so I'll keep watching.

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Louie CK
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:29 am
Posts: 59
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:03 pm 
 

ENKC wrote:
Louie CK wrote:
So, if you haven't seen it yet then base your opinion on the above...

Did you type this sentence with a straight face?

I'll base my opinion on seeing the show, if I ever have cause to. Not a fan of Sam Dunn.


well I was watching MLP: FiM and laughing histarically

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SharpAndSlender
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:49 am
Posts: 2260
Location: Bradenton, Florida
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:35 pm 
 

I suffered through two terrible documentaries by Dunn- I don't think I'm going to roll the dice again with a TV series.
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absurder21
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 5:51 pm
Posts: 673
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 5:50 pm 
 

Here's how I know how good this show is going to be... : http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/gen ... metal.html

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thenamelessdead
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:39 pm
Posts: 72
Location: Plymouth, UK
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:07 pm 
 

absurder21 wrote:
Here's how I know how good this show is going to be... : http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/gen ... metal.html

Oh dear. Nu-metal didn't test metal's boundaries, it tested its patience. I can understand having to mention the genre for completeness, if only to hold it up as a musical low-point, but to attempt to justify it isn't necessary. The primary legacy of nu-metal has been to create a false reference-point for people who know nothing about metal because it dominated popular 'alternative' music in the 90's. It had and has nothing to offer musically.

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MortalScum
Metalhead

Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:13 pm
Posts: 1590
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:38 pm 
 

aaq wrote:
Complaining about this is pretty stupid though. Vh1 hired Sam Dunne to make a series about the bands and genres Vh1 cares about. If you don't like those bands you really shouldn't be watching Vh1.


Exactly!

Besides I don't really understand why people complain about movies like this being a bunch of stuff they already know, why did you expect to learn anything in the first place?
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DemonHellSpawn
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:06 am
Posts: 595
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:41 pm 
 

I don't even know who Sam Dunn is.
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Louie CK
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:29 am
Posts: 59
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:58 pm 
 

MortalScum wrote:
aaq wrote:
Complaining about this is pretty stupid though. Vh1 hired Sam Dunne to make a series about the bands and genres Vh1 cares about. If you don't like those bands you really shouldn't be watching Vh1.


Exactly!

Besides I don't really understand why people complain about movies like this being a bunch of stuff they already know, why did you expect to learn anything in the first place?


Most everything I watch on vh1 is for luls and I think most anyone who knows what they're watching on vh1, especially when it comes to metal or music in general, does it for the same reason

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Burnyoursins
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:59 am
Posts: 953
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:02 pm 
 

Everything I do in life is for the lul. Because why waste your time with anything worthwhile? I've seen this show, and honestly, it's exactly what I expected it to be. Mainstream. Does the same shit he's always done, there's nothing different to be seen here. Hell, the show is more about the blues than it is about metal. Which is fantastic, except it's a show about metal, and the connection to blues only goes so far.
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The_Beast_in_Black wrote:
SleightOfVickonomy wrote:
...no one still knows what it's supposed to be about.

Well, I reckon there's a pretty good chance it'll be about gory tits.

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Louie CK
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:29 am
Posts: 59
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:48 pm 
 

lmfao there wasn't 1 part of that post I didn't like

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Deathwish77
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:47 pm
Posts: 144
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:57 am 
 

DemonHellSpawn wrote:
I don't even know who Sam Dunn is.

He's the geek that listed Sodom under death metal on his metal genre chart. :durr:
That's all you need to know about Dunn's knowledge of metal.

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The_Beast_in_Black
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:34 am
Posts: 7741
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:45 am 
 

Aurone wrote:
I tend to notice Sam Dunn and his documentaries on Metal tend to get hated on at MA for not showing Metal the way people here think it should be shown...

Clearly an objection to Cradle of Filth being called "Norwegian black metal" is just, like, MA's opinion, man.
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Tezcat
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 10:39 am
Posts: 333
Location: Colombia
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:47 am 
 

Deathwish77 wrote:
DemonHellSpawn wrote:
I don't even know who Sam Dunn is.

He's the geek that listed Sodom under death metal on his metal genre chart. :durr:
That's all you need to know about Dunn's knowledge of metal.

A little off-topic but the whole Sodom-in-Death Metal reminded me something I wanted to ask...

A friend of mine -a guitar player- told me once that while Slayer's Reign in Blood was considered one of the best Thrash Metal albums ever recorded, most of the riffs were vbasically Death Metal. I don't know shit about music theory or guitar playing, so I wanted to ask you guys: How "deathmetallish" are the riffs in Reign In Blood?
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ObservationSlave
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:27 pm
Posts: 390
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:38 pm 
 

Don't expect any in depth metal show on cable TV, because quite frankly, they cannot do it. In order for this show to be played on VH1 classic, they have to focus a lot more on the more popular bands. I would be happy that the show is around, because it is at least getting metal further out there.

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Pratl1971
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:21 am
Posts: 179
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:06 pm 
 

I take umbrage with some of his genres and the bands therein (Venom was NWOBHM, just a fact), but he comes off as more of a fringe player from the 90's with some knowledge of the movement. That said, as a VH-1 puppet he'll jump through hoops like they all do and play/showcase only what's publicly viable as opposed to the underbelly of the music as a whole. It's a tutorial at its basest form, nothing really more.
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OneSizeFitzpatrick
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:56 pm
Posts: 774
Location: A smoldering ruin with wi-fi, Chechnya
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:27 pm 
 

personally I really liked both documentaries he did (also, his band Burn To black was pretty good too, sorta death/thrash oriented). Dunno how you can say he didn't cover bands from countries that are considered "non-metal". they had interviews with people from Iran, where it's illegal to... well, do ANYTHING (except beat the shit outta chicks) let alone play in a blasphemous heavy metal and disgrace allah. The segment in Israel and China were probably my favorite though, there's alot of really talented bands from both countries (check out Ritual Day from China, one of the best black metal bands i've heard in a while). Not sure whether I'll watch this series or not. I had some problems with the genre categorization in his first movie, that list of founding bands list was pretty fucked up in some parts, not too mention adding grunge in there is totally false metal.
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Ozenrol
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 11:17 pm
Posts: 476
Location: Mesa, AZ
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:53 pm 
 

Dunn's a believer in the "brotherhood of metal",that every fan of every subgenre is united as a family beneath the banner of metal. It's a silly, adolescent idea, but obviously one of the main reasons why he's drawn to metal as made obvious in his first documentary (I haven't seen the second, but given the title and what little I've heard of it, I'm willing to bet it's more of the same).

It's just a backwards philosophy, with people listening to music simply because they feel obligated to in order to feel some sort of acceptance.

He's way too idealistic, his love for metal gets in the way of providing an accurate and informative picture of metal and the genre overall.

Plus he doesn't know dick about most extreme metal, probably because he feels alienated, which is ironic given the fashion in which he touts his educational background.

In short, I'll watch the show for the lol factor.

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p0wnn00b
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:40 pm
Posts: 914
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:03 pm 
 

OneSizeFitzpatrick wrote:
...not to mention adding grunge in there is totally false metal.

That's funny because Soundgarden, Alice in Chains and the Melvins are listed here on MA.

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OneRodeToAsaBay
The Doll With the Hideous Spirit

Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:49 pm
Posts: 2085
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 3:43 pm 
 

ObservationSlave wrote:
I would be happy that the show is around, because it is at least getting metal further out there.
I don't see that as a particularly good thing.

Looks like Sam Dunn is still another sad 30something who never dug deeper than Fisherprice's My First Metal Band(TM).

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John_Sunlight
President Satan

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
Posts: 4687
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 3:45 pm 
 

As a kid he was into Autopsy. He's more of a underground bands on big labels kind of guy. The guy who also listens to the other, non-underground things coming from the same marketers.
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Tezcat
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 10:39 am
Posts: 333
Location: Colombia
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:28 pm 
 

OneRodeToAsaBay wrote:
ObservationSlave wrote:
I would be happy that the show is around, because it is at least getting metal further out there.
I don't see that as a particularly good thing.

Why not? Please elaborate on the subject...
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Pratl1971
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 12:21 am
Posts: 179
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:43 pm 
 

Tezcat wrote:
Why not? Please elaborate on the subject...

Why should we want assholes, posers, wimps and fad-jumpers in our movement? We've been underground, and successfully I might add, for nearly 40-years. I personally don't want any douchebag idiot fadsters in my vicinity. We put our time in and helped this thing grow...fuck the fringe people.
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Aurone
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 3:17 pm
Posts: 1343
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:17 pm 
 

Pratl1971 wrote:
Tezcat wrote:
Why not? Please elaborate on the subject...

Why should we want assholes, posers, wimps and fad-jumpers in our movement? We've been underground, and successfully I might add, for nearly 40-years. I personally don't want any douchebag idiot fadsters in my vicinity. We put our time in and helped this thing grow...fuck the fringe people.


Spreading wide spread word has has its uses. I started off with Metallica, Rob Zombie and Slipknot and have gradually made my way deep into the underground music. Even members of the most underground of bands with the most die hard of fans will most likely say they got into Metal thanks to Iron Maiden, Slayer, Pantera, Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, all commerical bands which apply to Metal and non metal fan alike. The posers might come along, but they'll only go in so far.

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Tezcat
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 10:39 am
Posts: 333
Location: Colombia
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:37 pm 
 

Yeah... mainstream bands are and always have been "opening gates" for many people. Back in the 80's I was introduced into Meta via bon Jovi, then Maiden and Metallica, then Slayer and Destruction and then I got a hold of the underground, and well... 20 years later, here I am...

@Pratl1971: Wimps, posers and fad-junpers always come and eventually go away after two or three years. Water seeks its own loevel. Those who stand the heat, stay. Those who are just because its cool, eventually disappear. Being into the underground for almost 20 years give gives you this feeling of "well, all these kids are just a bunch of posers, few will stand the test of time, then we will see who stays and who doesn't"... don't you think?
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RottingWays
Metalhead

Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 10:14 pm
Posts: 649
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:02 pm 
 

I have been watching the show for the simple fact that it's one of the only metal related shows on television. Yeah we have That Metal Show but I really don't like any of the hosts on that show. My only gripe with Metal Evolution is that the first few episodes are like the beginning of every other metal documentary that I have seen. Of course everyone who likes metal knows the origins of it and the bands that started it all. What really needs to be shown is all of the underground bands and genres that most people don't know about. I'm pretty sure that there isn't a power metal documentary out there, we need something like that.
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Louie CK
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:29 am
Posts: 59
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:54 pm 
 

Pratl1971 wrote:
Tezcat wrote:
Why not? Please elaborate on the subject...

Why should we want assholes, posers, wimps and fad-jumpers in our movement? We've been underground, and successfully I might add, for nearly 40-years. I personally don't want any douchebag idiot fadsters in my vicinity. We put our time in and helped this thing grow...fuck the fringe people.


This^

--BUT--

If they're going to do a show on the evolution of metal they should do it right; that's really the whole point of this thread.

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Louie CK
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:29 am
Posts: 59
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:00 pm 
 

RottingWays wrote:
I have been watching the show for the simple fact that it's one of the only metal related shows on television. Yeah we have That Metal Show but I really don't like any of the hosts on that show. My only gripe with Metal Evolution is that the first few episodes are like the beginning of every other metal documentary that I have seen. Of course everyone who likes metal knows the origins of it and the bands that started it all. What really needs to be shown is all of the underground bands and genres that most people don't know about. I'm pretty sure that there isn't a power metal documentary out there, we need something like that.


The guys on tms rarely focus on any metal other than traditional metal or thrash, as far as I've seen and the one guy with the blonde hair is always wearing some terrible t shirt like shadows fall or five finger death derp

Also, I'm fairly certain that metal evolution is going to do a power metal episode but with bands like Iron Maiden and Dio or something like that idk for sure though

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Metallic Shock
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:01 pm
Posts: 407
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:12 pm 
 

Actually they are doing a power metal episode, that apparently interviews Timo Tolkki. So, apparently they are dealing with actual power metal which surprises me. I'll probably tune in to that episode but none of the others.

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I Am the Law
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2003 1:46 pm
Posts: 523
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:31 pm 
 

I saw it on the TV guide the other day but didn't bother to watch it. It sounds like what I expected; stuff catered to entry-level metal fans. Not that there is anything wrong with that. Everyone gets their start somewhere. It just doesn't interest me in the least.

And yeah, anyone that attempts to legitimize nu metal bands is pretty much invalidated right there.

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VampireKiller
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:21 pm
Posts: 196
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:43 pm 
 

[quote="OneSizeFitzpatrick"] (check out Ritual Day from China, one of the best black metal bands i've heard in a while). [quote]

Seems I'm not the only who discovered the greatness of Ritual Day through that documentary :metal:

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