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Alhadis
Madder Max

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:35 am
Posts: 3620
Location: Melbourne, Australia
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:47 am 
 

Thai:

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Karn_Kluay/125828

Shit's fucked, bro.
_________________
J_Ason wrote:
grinder12345 wrote:
And you says that metal is about the riffs, that is bollocks, cause then black and death bands wouldn't get accepted, cause the play termolo-riffs.

they payl termolo! not real riff!

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sofeshue
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:38 am
Posts: 254
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:27 pm 
 

I feel tired removing the countless mojibakes in the album/song titles. Originally, I thought that mojibakes happen primarily in Far Eastern languages (Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc.) and Cyrillic, but it is actually widespread, affecting languages such as Polish, Czech, Vietnamese, Scandinavian, and even German, Spanish, Portugese, French. Simply put, nearly every language that uses diacritics is affected. And English may be the only language without diacritics.

I have gone through every band from China and Taiwan, so there should be no mojibakes affecting Chinese language. I also repaired a lot of Cyrillic mojibakes, but there are still some that I cannot find information for.

In the following, I will list how deformed words typically look like. For example, the Polish letter ł (l slash) is typically deformed into ³ (3 in the superscript). If one searches *³* in song titles (or album titles), he will get a list of song titles with ³ in it. (NOTE, one should add stars * before and after ³, otherwise he would find nothing).
Image

Letters after deformation: (some symbols may require copy and paste, as they are not easily generated with the keyboard.)
â á å à è ò ð î ÷ó ò ø ñ ü þ (These occur in Cyrillic a lot, but many other languages use them as regular letters, so one should be very careful so to distinguish if they are deformed letters or not.)
Ô Ã Å Ď Ë Š Ń ° ¥ ¹ ² ³ ¢ ç — (long dash) ¶ ‡ ¬ £
¸ „ (affecting Thai) ™ (what the hell is this?) µ § ‰
½ ¼ ¾ ® ± (affecting Polish) ª (in the superscript) ¤ ¦ ¿ ¡ (inverted ? and !, which are also regular marks in Spanish)
ê (affecting Polish, the correct letter should be ę)


Last edited by sofeshue on Mon Nov 07, 2011 3:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Evenfiel
Heavy Metal Hunter

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 9:50 am
Posts: 6144
Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:25 pm 
 

Do you know which mojibakes tend to appear in Portuguese/French?

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sofeshue
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:38 am
Posts: 254
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:48 pm 
 

Evenfiel wrote:
Do you know which mojibakes tend to appear in Portuguese/French?

I did not pay much attention to these two languages. I only have some impression that there are indeed mojibakes occurring in French/Portuguese.

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Alhadis
Madder Max

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:35 am
Posts: 3620
Location: Melbourne, Australia
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:57 am 
 

sofeshue wrote:
I did not pay much attention to these two languages. I only have some impression that there are indeed mojibakes occurring in French/Portuguese.

To my memory, there aren't that many French characters that aren't included in the standard Windows: Western codeblock (Windows-1252). You can see which characters are included by opening Character Map, checking "Advanced View", and navigating to "Windows: Western" in the "Character Set" dropdown list. Anything that isn't there is likely to be mojibaked (this is just an estimated guess; don't quote me on it).

This would all be so much easier if I simply knew the character encoding that was used to encode the v1 database... :ugh:
_________________
J_Ason wrote:
grinder12345 wrote:
And you says that metal is about the riffs, that is bollocks, cause then black and death bands wouldn't get accepted, cause the play termolo-riffs.

they payl termolo! not real riff!

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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 6010
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:10 am 
 

Some mojibakes I found, I fixed a portion of the search results (primarily German and Hungarian ones), but not all:
ü ü
ß ÃŸ
ä ä
ö ö
á á
é é
ó ó

http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/An ... VIA/159001
http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Ab ... n_00/55700
Cyrillic (Ukranian).

http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Au ... can/181737
http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Ex ... .../234408
Cyrillic (Russian).
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Junge.

Last.fm | Collection

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SwarteHeap
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:52 am
Posts: 410
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:09 pm 
 

I'm not sure either how the "mojibakes" came to be in the first place either, because they're all from different encodings. The Cyrillic ones are usually Windows-1251 (a Cyrillic encoding), which I guess has something to do with the browser settings of Russian users, and perhaps the lack of explicit encoding tags in the HTML. I don't have a clue what those Thai ones were; they didn't seem to be any of the Thai encodings that Notepad++ supports. The ones Azmodes just posted are actually UTF-8 rendered as ASCII, which is pretty strange.

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Alhadis
Madder Max

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:35 am
Posts: 3620
Location: Melbourne, Australia
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:23 pm 
 

Quote:
I don't have a clue what those Thai ones were; they didn't seem to be any of the Thai encodings that Notepad++ supports.

You DO realise that Thai is a multibyte alphabet, and the mangled characters would've been broken apart before being misencoded, right...?

Without knowing the encoding of the old database, I can only second SwarteHeap's theory that it depends on the browser's own character set.
_________________
J_Ason wrote:
grinder12345 wrote:
And you says that metal is about the riffs, that is bollocks, cause then black and death bands wouldn't get accepted, cause the play termolo-riffs.

they payl termolo! not real riff!

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SwarteHeap
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:52 am
Posts: 410
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:48 pm 
 

So are the UTF-8 mojibakes in Azmodes's post, but Notepad++ can fix those.

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Alhadis
Madder Max

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:35 am
Posts: 3620
Location: Melbourne, Australia
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:53 pm 
 

SwarteHeap wrote:
So are the UTF-8 mojibakes in Azmodes's post, but Notepad++ can fix those.

Okay, perhaps I should've said "Plane-1" Unicode characters. :p Characters that require more than two bytes to store.
_________________
J_Ason wrote:
grinder12345 wrote:
And you says that metal is about the riffs, that is bollocks, cause then black and death bands wouldn't get accepted, cause the play termolo-riffs.

they payl termolo! not real riff!

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Fulgurius
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:51 am
Posts: 1068
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:56 pm 
 

Azmodes wrote:

Actually, those first two links are Russian as well. Someboby already fixed them.

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oneyoudontknow
Cum insantientibus furere necesse est.

Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 6:25 pm
Posts: 5344
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:09 pm 
 

Location:
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Interceptor/31381
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Crossbreed/54568
_________________

I write for these magazines:
http://swirlsofnoise.com/
http://againstmagazine.com/

Analysis of band names:
http://www.metal-archives.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=103987

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Alhadis
Madder Max

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:35 am
Posts: 3620
Location: Melbourne, Australia
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:32 pm 
 

Fixed.
_________________
J_Ason wrote:
grinder12345 wrote:
And you says that metal is about the riffs, that is bollocks, cause then black and death bands wouldn't get accepted, cause the play termolo-riffs.

they payl termolo! not real riff!

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Fulgurius
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:51 am
Posts: 1068
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:16 pm 
 

http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/He ... ceht/27381
Someone with the knowledge of Polish please fix the titles of Hegemoon side.

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sofeshue
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:38 am
Posts: 254
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:59 pm 
 

Fulgurius wrote:
http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Hegemoon_-_Runes_of_Dianceht/Hegemoon_-_Runes_of_Dianceht/27381
Someone with the knowledge of Polish please fix the titles of Hegemoon side.


Fixed. Discogs is trustworthy.

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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 6010
Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:18 pm 
 

http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Pi ... emo/183848
Lithuanian.
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Junge.

Last.fm | Collection

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Alhadis
Madder Max

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:35 am
Posts: 3620
Location: Melbourne, Australia
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:56 am 
 

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Saber_Tiger/8428

Additional notes.
_________________
J_Ason wrote:
grinder12345 wrote:
And you says that metal is about the riffs, that is bollocks, cause then black and death bands wouldn't get accepted, cause the play termolo-riffs.

they payl termolo! not real riff!

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MetalCuresHeadaches
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:35 pm
Posts: 611
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:38 pm 
 

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/%D0 ... %8C/126292

So, through their MySpace and Google Translate, I've come across their full line-up (past and present). Now, I plan to add it, but should I add it in their native Ukranian, s it's listed on their MS profile page, or should the names be listed in the English translation?
_________________
One part the Führer, one part the Pope

inhumanist wrote:
"Fuck you, little Omar. Your school got reduced to rubble by an IDF missile, but Allah still gives you hope you say? Well that's just because you've never played Grand Theft Auto you little shit."

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Alhadis
Madder Max

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:35 am
Posts: 3620
Location: Melbourne, Australia
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:39 pm 
 

I'd leave the Romanised names in the artist alias, and add the Cyrillic names in the "Real Name" field.
_________________
J_Ason wrote:
grinder12345 wrote:
And you says that metal is about the riffs, that is bollocks, cause then black and death bands wouldn't get accepted, cause the play termolo-riffs.

they payl termolo! not real riff!

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MetalCuresHeadaches
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:35 pm
Posts: 611
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:14 pm 
 

I fixed the pages of the members that were already listed, and added the bassist who was a part of the group for all of one practice on their first day as a band. Also went ahead and added the Cryllic spelling of the band's city.
_________________
One part the Führer, one part the Pope

inhumanist wrote:
"Fuck you, little Omar. Your school got reduced to rubble by an IDF missile, but Allah still gives you hope you say? Well that's just because you've never played Grand Theft Auto you little shit."

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Evenfiel
Heavy Metal Hunter

Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 9:50 am
Posts: 6144
Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:38 pm 
 

MetalCuresHeadaches wrote:
I fixed the pages of the members that were already listed, and added the bassist who was a part of the group for all of one practice on their first day as a band. Also went ahead and added the Cryllic spelling of the band's city.

You should always use Romanised city names, just like we use it for countries.

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MetalCuresHeadaches
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:35 pm
Posts: 611
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:11 am 
 

Oh. My bad.

The lyrics listed for http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Ra ... nnet/31194 are all kinds of broken.
_________________
One part the Führer, one part the Pope

inhumanist wrote:
"Fuck you, little Omar. Your school got reduced to rubble by an IDF missile, but Allah still gives you hope you say? Well that's just because you've never played Grand Theft Auto you little shit."

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Alhadis
Madder Max

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:35 am
Posts: 3620
Location: Melbourne, Australia
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:12 am 
 

MetalCuresHeadaches wrote:
The lyrics listed for http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Ra ... nnet/31194 are all kinds of broken.

Not anymore, mate. ;-) Fixed.
_________________
J_Ason wrote:
grinder12345 wrote:
And you says that metal is about the riffs, that is bollocks, cause then black and death bands wouldn't get accepted, cause the play termolo-riffs.

they payl termolo! not real riff!

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MetalCuresHeadaches
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:35 pm
Posts: 611
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:45 am 
 

http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/%C ... rio/323339

Now, both of the Greek bands in this split have Cyrillic names, but the album was named under transliterations. Since we support international characters now, would it be a good idea to rename the split from "Epithanatios Roghos / Poreia Sto Perithorio" to "Επιθανάτιος Ρόγχος / Πορεία Στο Περιθώριο"?
_________________
One part the Führer, one part the Pope

inhumanist wrote:
"Fuck you, little Omar. Your school got reduced to rubble by an IDF missile, but Allah still gives you hope you say? Well that's just because you've never played Grand Theft Auto you little shit."

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Fulgurius
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:51 am
Posts: 1068
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:52 am 
 

MetalCuresHeadaches wrote:
http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/%CE%95%CF%80%CE%B9%CE%B8%CE%B1%CE%BD%CE%AC%CF%84%CE%B9%CE%BF%CF%82_%CE%A1%CF%8C%CE%B3%CF%87%CE%BF%CF%82/Epithanatios_Roghos_-_Poreia_Sto_Perithorio/323339

Now, both of the Greek bands in this split have Cyrillic names, but the album was named under transliterations. Since we support international characters now, would it be a good idea to rename the split from "Epithanatios Roghos / Poreia Sto Perithorio" to "Επιθανάτιος Ρόγχος / Πορεία Στο Περιθώριο"?

Man, Greeks aren't using Cyrillic alphabet, they have Greek alphabet.

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MetalCuresHeadaches
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:35 pm
Posts: 611
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:25 pm 
 

Fulgurius wrote:
Man, Greeks aren't using Cyrillic alphabet, they have Greek alphabet.


Ha. Well, it's all foreign to me. I just know it needs to be fixed.
_________________
One part the Führer, one part the Pope

inhumanist wrote:
"Fuck you, little Omar. Your school got reduced to rubble by an IDF missile, but Allah still gives you hope you say? Well that's just because you've never played Grand Theft Auto you little shit."

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MetalCuresHeadaches
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:35 pm
Posts: 611
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:10 am 
 

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Ole ... gma/104276 - The name on their MySpace, and the logo, is ΟΛΕΘΡΙΟ ΡΗΓΜΑ

As well, their album names need fixing. I'll correct track names and the like if someone here will just take care of the titles (only a veteran, so I can't change them):
http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Ol ... ros/274858 - ΡΗΓΜΑ ΟΛΕΘΡΙΟ
http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Ol ... nts/205113 - Πολέμησε Για Τους Αθώους
http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Ol ... %29/168311 - Μ.Γ.Δ.
http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Ol ... %29/217074 - Σκοτώστε Τα Παιδιά, Φονιάδες!
http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Ol ... ias/168307 - Ο Τρόμος Της


Unrelated to the above, but needs to be fixed:
http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Aa ... nd./293103 Track 4 is broken
_________________
One part the Führer, one part the Pope

inhumanist wrote:
"Fuck you, little Omar. Your school got reduced to rubble by an IDF missile, but Allah still gives you hope you say? Well that's just because you've never played Grand Theft Auto you little shit."

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Alhadis
Madder Max

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:35 am
Posts: 3620
Location: Melbourne, Australia
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:43 am 
 

Done. :) Ordinarily, I would've been tempted to change the base of the band's name, but after having the issue of small caps and Greek accents brought up, I wouldn't trust the judgement of anybody but a Greek.

The last one, "Ο Τρόμος Της" was actually supposed to be "Ο Τρομος Της Εξουσιας", BTW. ;-)

Quote:
Unrelated to the above, but needs to be fixed:
http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Aa ... nd./293103 Track 4 is broken

Yeah, erh... will need to look into that one. :oh shit: Don't have much experience with Greek mojibake.
_________________
J_Ason wrote:
grinder12345 wrote:
And you says that metal is about the riffs, that is bollocks, cause then black and death bands wouldn't get accepted, cause the play termolo-riffs.

they payl termolo! not real riff!

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MalignantThrone
Vanished in the Cosmic Futility

Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 1:24 am
Posts: 2785
Location: A step closer to home
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:59 am 
 

MetalCuresHeadaches wrote:
Unrelated to the above, but needs to be fixed:
http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Aa ... nd./293103 Track 4 is broken

Lyrics to that particular song are mojibaked the fuck out as well.
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Guitarpro77889 wrote:
which ones are mainstream cuz i will stop listening to them

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Alhadis
Madder Max

Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:35 am
Posts: 3620
Location: Melbourne, Australia
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:26 am 
 

MalignantThrone wrote:
Lyrics to that particular song are mojibaked the fuck out as well.

Both fixed.
Image
_________________
J_Ason wrote:
grinder12345 wrote:
And you says that metal is about the riffs, that is bollocks, cause then black and death bands wouldn't get accepted, cause the play termolo-riffs.

they payl termolo! not real riff!

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MetalCuresHeadaches
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:35 pm
Posts: 611
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:58 am 
 

Alhadis wrote:
The last one, "Ο Τρόμος Της" was actually supposed to be "Ο Τρομος Της Εξουσιας", BTW. ;-)


Of course it is. Stupid Discogs... :nono:

I'd like to finish off that album, but I can't change the track titles. Discogs is the only site I've found with the listing in Greek, and they have 10 tracks on the album while we have 9. And I don't want to just throw the extra track in there without knowning it's right.
_________________
One part the Führer, one part the Pope

inhumanist wrote:
"Fuck you, little Omar. Your school got reduced to rubble by an IDF missile, but Allah still gives you hope you say? Well that's just because you've never played Grand Theft Auto you little shit."

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MetalCuresHeadaches
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:35 pm
Posts: 611
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:33 pm 
 

http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Aft ... ofi/122706

So their logo clearly show that their name is written in Greek, and our page is listed in a translation. Problem is, I can't find anything about them online that doesn't either link to or mirror our page. Anyone here good with Greek?

I was able to find the correct typing for http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Ana ... 3540327370. It should be ΑΝΑΣΑ ΣΤΑΧΤΗ (not sure if Greek etters like that can be written in lowercase or not)
_________________
One part the Führer, one part the Pope

inhumanist wrote:
"Fuck you, little Omar. Your school got reduced to rubble by an IDF missile, but Allah still gives you hope you say? Well that's just because you've never played Grand Theft Auto you little shit."

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Fulgurius
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:51 am
Posts: 1068
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:13 pm 
 

MetalCuresHeadaches wrote:
http://www.metal-archives.com/bands/Aftokatastrofi/122706

So their logo clearly show that their name is written in Greek, and our page is listed in a translation. Problem is, I can't find anything about them online that doesn't either link to or mirror our page. Anyone here good with Greek?

Either the band name is wrong, or it's not their logo, but it doesn't transliterates to Aftokatastrofi at all.
That Greek text reads "ξεχασμένη προφητεία", which is the translation of their demo title "Forgotten Prophecy". Someone has just cropped that image from the cover. I've deleted the logo.

EDIT: I'm a bit confused, as this myspace page http://www.myspace.com/aftokatastrofi says that the band was called Aftokatastrofi, but I've found this facebook page:
http://www.facebook.com/FORGOTTEN.PROPHECY?sk=info
it says the band was called Ξεχασμένη προφητεία/Forgotten Prophecy and released only one split LP, but it has the same picture in the album:
Image
Also see here:
http://noisy-subculture.blogspot.com/20 ... phecy.html

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Fulgurius
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:51 am
Posts: 1068
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:10 pm 
 

http://www.myspace.com/loonytunesrecords/blog/368946280
on the release the band was obviously called Ξεχασμένη προφητεία/Forgotten Prophecy, so I've renamed the page and added correct tracklisting. No idea what's with that myspace fan page, no other source mentions the band under the name "Aftokatastrofi".
Somebody may add the pictures from facebook page.

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MetalCuresHeadaches
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:35 pm
Posts: 611
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:27 pm 
 

Thanks for that. I'll go ahead and add the logo and and band pic.
_________________
One part the Führer, one part the Pope

inhumanist wrote:
"Fuck you, little Omar. Your school got reduced to rubble by an IDF missile, but Allah still gives you hope you say? Well that's just because you've never played Grand Theft Auto you little shit."

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PiotrB
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 8:48 am
Posts: 1887
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:00 am 
 

Copy/paste :
http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Na ... osa/203850
http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Na ... olun/67290

Missing one track. you can check tracklist on cover :
http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Reanimator/5_Жутких_Историй_На_Тему_Смерти/216950

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sofeshue
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:38 am
Posts: 254
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:36 am 
 

PiotrB wrote:
Copy/paste :
Missing one track. you can check tracklist on cover :
http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Reanimator/5_Жутких_Историй_На_Тему_Смерти/216950

Fixed.

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Zaveugan
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:12 am
Posts: 93
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:56 am 
 

PiotrB wrote:

Fixed.

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sofeshue
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 2:38 am
Posts: 254
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:20 pm 
 

A strange bug. After I modified the deformed tracklist of http://www.metal-archives.com/albums/Tr ... 8F!/226419, then I searched *÷* for the deformed song titles that contains the symbol ÷, in the search result, I still get this album. It seems that the historical record has not been completely erased.

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9712
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:33 pm 
 

Hmm, seems like it's a problem with the indexing again... I'll check it out.
_________________
Markeri, in 2013 wrote:
you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
Extreme_violence wrote:
Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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