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worlddementia
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:40 pm
Posts: 189
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:08 am 
 

Actually for brutal death/Demilich style gutterals, there's a way to do it without mic cupping or pitchbending shenanigans. I just learned how to do it the other day. It's all about opening up your throat with your head tilted down. You start out with a sort of "EEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" sound with your mouth and throat, then you just try deepening it, and eventually you get this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_at_3Ge ... re=related

I'm really not that great explaining it, it's difficult to. But I'm sure they have videos everywhere if you just look for them, for anyone who doesn't have anyone to teach them already.
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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6356
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:50 pm 
 

Kudos to you for replicating Antti Boman; he's definitely one of the hardest to imitate. The vocals sounded rather good, the music not so... Shitty laptop speakers might be faulty here, but I couldn't really even hear the riffs...
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garthmargengi
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:16 am
Posts: 481
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:10 pm 
 

It's not so difficult to get that sound; thing is you should forget everything you know about growling, since that's not how it's done. Just like world said, you have to pin your head down, open your throat and mouth as if you were yawning, lift your tongue (sort of in a u form, touching the palate) a pull the throaty sound; what's real hard is making if fit with the music, and what's impossible is trying to get a good diction or some power (it's nowhere near the volume of a proper growl, at least not for me).

Nicely done by the way, worlddementia, didn't like the music though.
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Misty_Lake
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:46 pm
Posts: 271
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:34 pm 
 

What should I do for ear training? I feel pretty bad about failing aural skills in college because now I don't think I will ever be as good :/ The class is mostly sight singing with the solfeg and there was this ear training program called MacGamut that I just had no motivation to do because I can't sit at my comp for 3-4 hours doing it when I have other assignments to do, and a life.

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WindInTheTrees
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:54 am
Posts: 34
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:00 pm 
 

How the hell can I mangle my vocals to get the effect that Count Grishnackh has on the track "War"? I suppose to be specific, how would one go about getting his powerful delivery...a specific breathing pattern or what?
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Avgudadyrkning
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:15 pm
Posts: 48
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:02 pm 
 

I'm pretty good at doing silencer vocals... But i don't do music. That's just my natural vocals.
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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6356
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:35 pm 
 

Avgudadyrkning wrote:
I'm pretty good at doing silencer vocals... But i don't do music. That's just my natural vocals.

Silencer vocals as in Nattramn's inane screeching?
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Avgudadyrkning
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 7:15 pm
Posts: 48
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 7:02 pm 
 

Ilwhyan wrote:
Avgudadyrkning wrote:
I'm pretty good at doing silencer vocals... But i don't do music. That's just my natural vocals.

Silencer vocals as in Nattramn's inane screeching?

Yes.
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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6356
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:08 am 
 

Good thing you don't do music then.
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hagelmand
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:21 pm
Posts: 104
Location: Venezuela
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:16 pm 
 

So, lately I've been listening to lots of stoner/sludge metal, The Sword, Red Fang, Kyuss, Electric Wizard, etc, and wondering how to exactly do those kinds of vocals, or if there's effects used in the process?

Reference to the kind of vocals I mean.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuRKRFjm-HA

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GothicRedneck14
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:29 am
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:42 am 
 

I've been doing clean vocals for awhile. It's been a hobby, but, I've been trying to get better a little bit at a time on my own. I recently did a vocal cover of Walls by Redemption, which can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/user/THEmikereyn ... VZOHFbnRsc

Any tips are much appreciated. I never expect to be all that great, but, I'd definitely like to get better.

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Det_Morkettall
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:02 am
Posts: 610
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:48 am 
 

Can anyone tell me how to make my thrash vocals more forceful and grittier? In my thread someone mentioned using my diaphragm more, but I don't think I quite know how. What are some specific breathing patterns?

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Misty_Lake
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:46 pm
Posts: 271
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:19 pm 
 

Whats the difference between classical singing techniques and non-classical singing techniques?

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MrDisgrace
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 3:11 pm
Posts: 34
Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:28 pm 
 

Det_Morkettall wrote:
Can anyone tell me how to make my thrash vocals more forceful and grittier? In my thread someone mentioned using my diaphragm more, but I don't think I quite know how. What are some specific breathing patterns?


When people mention the diaphragm thing, it means that you should apply strength to/push the air and out of your stomach, as opposed to your chest or throat.
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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
Posts: 4521
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:23 pm 
 

Misty_Lake wrote:
Whats the difference between classical singing techniques and non-classical singing techniques?


Don't know much about it, though my vocal teacher told me that in classical you'll get taught to sing without using much air, something that can definitely influence your singing performence.

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syx
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 6:18 pm
Posts: 380
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:26 am 
 

I am wanting to learn how to make my death metal vocals more guttural and harsh, usually I use a grunting method, in reviews I'm often likened to Glen Benton (which is an honour as I love his voice) but I want to get more of a gurgling 'growl' sound into it any idea?

I am fine for the high shrieks, medium black metal vocals and spoken word, main thing I need to work on for the band is the deep vocals and my pronunciation. I think for screams that is the most difficult bit learning to pronounce words properely.

One thing I will say to anyone serious about fronting a band, learn how to use your microphone. Since I've learned how to use a microphone properely I have found I can do a lot more with my voice. Really helps to mess around with cupping, angles etc, see what works for your own vocals. It's all very well trying to sound like your favourite singers but learn what YOU can do.

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garthmargengi
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:16 am
Posts: 481
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 6:52 am 
 

I actually have a pretty orthodox point of view on that sense, I keep the mic straight, about 15 or 20cm from my mouth and that's it, don't mind if other people do it, but regarding myself, I like not to depend on the microphone to get down my vocal style.
I do use effects after the recording though, such as reverb or echo, but most of the time I like to keep the sound of my singing as "natural" as possible.

Thing with reaching low growls, is that you're sorta limited by your vocal register, if your voice ain't deep or you can't go very low while speaking clean, chances are you wont be able to push it further while growling.
But go a few posts back and read what worlddementia wrote about making demilichesque vocals, that might be of help.
Pitchshifting down the vocals will add a gurgly sound if you don't mind editing them, though you'll need an equalizer also to get rid of the metallic sound you get if you shift them way too low.
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syx
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 6:18 pm
Posts: 380
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:58 am 
 

Cheers mate, yeah I am going to try and learn some proper technique for my low vocals, I tend to use a grunting method as I said instead of an actualy growl. Thanks for you advice though mate!!

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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6356
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:33 am 
 

I figured out a technique to shallowly imitate Dan Greening's voice. It allows huge power (ever seen him sing live? he sounds like a fucking lion roaring) and high versatility that depends on your air use and mouth shape etc. To my shame I have been unable to reach the lowness of his vocals, and mine sound, well, rather ridiculous. Mid-pitched guttural growls really suck. The screamed stuff, the kind that Greening used a lot, does sound cool though. The vocals will of course sound completely different when there's music in the background. We shall see.
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IdiotFlesh
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:05 am
Posts: 1015
Location: New Hampshire
PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:43 am 
 

GothicRedneck14 wrote:
I've been doing clean vocals for awhile. It's been a hobby, but, I've been trying to get better a little bit at a time on my own. I recently did a vocal cover of Walls by Redemption, which can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/user/THEmikereyn ... VZOHFbnRsc

Any tips are much appreciated. I never expect to be all that great, but, I'd definitely like to get better.


I would try something more in your range for starters. Pay careful attention to how you enunciate words when you sing, experiment with different vowel shapes and stick with the ones that sound the best to you. Right now you pronounce each word just like you would in a casual conversation, but they should be altered just a little to fit the style of the singing. Try to find a sweet spot on each note that you sing. A problem I hear in a lot of new singers is that they slide between notes too often, and don't give each note enough time. One of the hardest things about music is being patient, with rhythm especially, but people overlook the patience that it takes to sing a good melody. If I were you, I would warm up by simply singing some notes and holding them out for a while. Experiment with your resonance and your vowel shapes and figure out what feels best to you.

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thomash
Metal Philosopher

Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 6:31 pm
Posts: 1855
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:23 pm 
 

GothicRedneck14 wrote:
I've been doing clean vocals for awhile. It's been a hobby, but, I've been trying to get better a little bit at a time on my own. I recently did a vocal cover of Walls by Redemption, which can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/user/THEmikereyn ... VZOHFbnRsc

Any tips are much appreciated. I never expect to be all that great, but, I'd definitely like to get better.

You need to learn to sing from your diaphragm. You've obviously never had any formal training but your ear for pitch doesn't seem terrible; you're too low on that song but, at least, you're consistent. However, you could really use some training or just research on proper technique. What you're doing in that video is more speaking than singing.

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Solibelus
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:22 am
Posts: 8
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:46 am 
 

Uploaded a couple more covers. I'd be glad to get some directions for improvement.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SolidusObelus
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Last edited by Solibelus on Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Solibelus
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:22 am
Posts: 8
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:49 am 
 

*accidental double post* :(
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Stormalv
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 4:09 pm
Posts: 720
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:16 pm 
 

I think it's a myth that you can't do deep growls unless you have a deep voice!! Both a friend of mine and I have light voices, but we can growl fairly deep. What is important to remember is that there are MANY ways to growl!

One guy once said that there are 2 ways to growl, guttural and throaty, while I don't think it's just these two, there are many others, I think he's onto something, these are the most common ways to growl. If you use the throaty technique, you can do deep, long growls like in funeral doom metal, it doesn't hurt at all and it doesn't need a lot of air. But as far as powerful screaming-like growls, you probably have to have a deep voice to get it to sound deep.
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Xlxlx
May contain traces of nuts

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 5301
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 6:51 pm 
 

Solibelus wrote:
Uploaded a couple more covers. I'd be glad to get some directions for improvement.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SolidusObelus

Just listened to your cover. You sort of remind me of a more intelligible and slightly less deep Craig Pillard. Which is a VERY good thing.

I wish I could upload some vocal covers, but I have no recording equipment :(
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Poe Ohlin
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:20 pm
Posts: 132
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 7:25 pm 
 

I'm attempting to get my black metal band up and going. I will be doing the vocals and I like to say I sound like a combo of Dead, Marilyn Manson, and Edsel Dope. The band is called Hollow (yeah I know it's kinda a pussy name).

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Solibelus
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:22 am
Posts: 8
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:23 pm 
 

Xlxlx wrote:
Solibelus wrote:
Uploaded a couple more covers. I'd be glad to get some directions for improvement.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SolidusObelus

Just listened to your cover. You sort of remind me of a more intelligible and slightly less deep Craig Pillard. Which is a VERY good thing.

I wish I could upload some vocal covers, but I have no recording equipment :(


Thanks, glad to hear that :p
Anything you think I should work on though?

BTW you don't much equipment to record. :S
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Xlxlx
May contain traces of nuts

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pm
Posts: 5301
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 1:57 pm 
 

Solibelus wrote:
Me about Solibelus' vocal cover wrote:
Just listened to your cover. You sort of remind me of a more intelligible and slightly less deep Craig Pillard. Which is a VERY good thing.

I wish I could upload some vocal covers, but I have no recording equipment :(


Thanks, glad to hear that :p
Anything you think I should work on though?

BTW you don't much equipment to record. :S

Not much really. You don't sound cracky nor lack volume (problems that many an extreme vocalist seems to deal with), so no problems in those regards. Maybe a little more variety would be nice, but that's just me.

Really? Then I'll see if I can record something...
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Solibelus
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:22 am
Posts: 8
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 4:49 pm 
 

Yeah, I mean, you can go and get a USB condenser mic (say Samson C03U) today for like 150$. I heard guys say the quality is OK.
Personally I'm using some shitty microphone I built myself and it kinda works :P
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_MachineGodMessiah_
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:00 am
Posts: 23
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:02 am 
 

I'm a practicing vocalist and I have to say I'm pretty good at my own accent I developed through my death growls. Originally I did it in the vein of Joe Duplantier and some general death metal groups, but then I tried a different way to growl and ended up sounding like Glenn Benton and George "Corpsegrinder" Fisher.

Which segues perfectly into my next point. I'm sort of stuck indecisively between two different approaches to growling. My original and first tries at growling were more of a forced, tightened and angry-sounding sigh that was relatively low in volume but with that I could produce a good range of different accents and tones to my death growl. And then I took a leaf out of my brother's book (who is an idiot, plays drums to garage/jam-band-style ultra-generic metalcore and can't growl for shit but I still took that as inspiration) and tried growling with my full voice, of which I can produce a wayyyy louder, slightly more gravelly voice at higher notes and pull off a pretty good mid-range black metal growl and shriek.

After watching Melissa Cross a little and getting a sort of gist of screaming/growling, I'm pretty certain that my latter approach to growling is what is known as the "worst" way to growl, and the former way is the best (at a lack of volume). I haven't really done the extensive warm-ups shown in her instructional DVDs but I do sing cleanly (quite well actually cos I'm involved in musicals in theatre) and I explore very Mike Patton-esque experimental gibberish vocal accents, which I actually take a lot of inspiration from as far as my clean singing goes. But anyway I'm just wondering if what I'm concerned about with the optimal/healthiest growling technique is correct on a generalised basis and if doing at least some structured vocal warmups helps a great deal. Because when I try both techniques (the latter before the former) I can't growl well and end up sighing forcibly and without any gurgling/phlegm in my throat. So yeah, I just want to know that and if it comes down to one's own throat before I make some demos and send them out to any local bands etc.

But as far as helping others with vocals go, really it comes down to personal experience and what feels to be the "safest" way of performing harsh vocals for you i.e. what doesn't damage your vocal cords. And DON'T TRY TO EMULATE OTHER VOCALISTS STYLES. In my experience (as both an actor and vocalist), for one thing it's completely unoriginal and sounds boring and same-y after a while (a lot of metalcore ends up like this) and for another it doesn't help you develop your own style at all because all you're probably doing is just mimicking your "inspiration's" style and not performing at your best or damaging your vocal cords in doing so. Use your own voice and your own accent; trust me it sounds much better and feels better on your throat :)

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colin040
Metal freak

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 6:00 pm
Posts: 4521
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:01 am 
 

Been working more on my vocals a little more. Sang something of Fates Warning's ''Still Remains'' which my vocal coacher liked. Currently just experimenting some with my head voice while singing along to some Dream Theater stuff. So far ''pull me Under'' goes OK I think.

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Poe Ohlin
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2011 5:20 pm
Posts: 132
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:06 pm 
 

I've been practicing lately to try and sing some songs in Norwegian. It helps me learn a language, and it sounds wicked when signing black metal.

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sea
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:36 pm
Posts: 29
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:37 pm 
 

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10680698/Music/Rupture.mp3

Quick attempt at recording and mixing death/doom style vocals. Thoughts?

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truvelocity
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:01 am
Posts: 308
Location: Egypt
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:01 pm 
 

Great Russell Allen interview about singing and he doesn't advocate lemons!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sz13cLKt ... re=related

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Solibelus
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:22 am
Posts: 8
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:27 pm 
 

SearanoX wrote:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10680698/Music/Rupture.mp3

Quick attempt at recording and mixing death/doom style vocals. Thoughts?


Nice stuff dude! Some echo would add a nice dimension to the track, but it's fine without it as well.
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Commandaunt
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:31 am
Posts: 485
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:16 pm 
 

I'm a pretty decent death metal vocalist, but I find that I can't really do the deep gurgling shit like Dying fetus, devourment or mortician. My style is mostly stuff like bolt thrower, disastrous murmer, baphomet, etc. Stuff that doesn't take too much technique but just deep sorta windy vocals. Any tips on getting the gurgling sorta stuff?

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Solibelus
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:22 am
Posts: 8
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:23 am 
 

Commandaunt wrote:
I'm a pretty decent death metal vocalist, but I find that I can't really do the deep gurgling shit like Dying fetus, devourment or mortician. My style is mostly stuff like bolt thrower, disastrous murmer, baphomet, etc. Stuff that doesn't take too much technique but just deep sorta windy vocals. Any tips on getting the gurgling sorta stuff?


I think that pushing less with the diaphragm, rolling the tongue back and closing the lips more should help in most cases...
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Metallic Shock
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:01 pm
Posts: 405
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:54 am 
 

Does anybody have any suggestions on how to hit lower notes? I've got a pretty low speaking voice, but for some reason I can't go any lower than E2. Is there any method on going lower comfortably?

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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6356
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:16 am 
 

Metallic Shock wrote:
Does anybody have any suggestions on how to hit lower notes? I've got a pretty low speaking voice, but for some reason I can't go any lower than E2. Is there any method on going lower comfortably?

E2 is quite low man. It's one of the lowest notes opera bass singers sing.

The basic things: make sure you warm up adequately, drink warm water or tea and never cold, and keep your vocal chords hydrated (many singers say there's no such thing as too much water). If you drink coffee or alcohol beforehand, begin your water drinking early enough before starting to warm up, since alcohol and caffeine are diuretic and can lead to dehydration of the vocal chords. Drink your first glass of warm water half and hour before practice and another fifteen minutes before, or so, and keep drinking as you practice.

If you want to bass profondo like a motherfucker, join an orthodox monastery and practice singing with the monks.

It's possible to emit lower notes than normal using vocal fry, but it sounds like grumbling unless you master it. Not worth it really.
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Metallic Shock
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:01 pm
Posts: 405
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:18 pm 
 

Yeah I know it is fairly low, but then you hear guys like Peter Steele going into the first octave and I'm thinking "how do you do that?". My natural speaking voice isn't as low as his or other bass/low baritones so maybe I'll just have to make do with what I already have. Though I do appreciate the advice. Don't really drink much caffeine or alcohol though.

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