You make your own? I've never tried that.

hmm, I'm kind of afraid of "ruining" my kidneys. read somewhere that too much of protein supplements are not very
healthy for your inner organs, esp. the kidneys.... Is that wrong?

As for the fod you and others mentioned - chocolate milk, yoghurt and cottage cheese are all "milk protein" right and as such not resorbed so fast as wanted after training. Another wrong thing?

I eat quite a lot of yoghurt, curd etc. but thought there's better stuff to eat directly after training.

Not to be rude, but "low-fat buttermilk" is one of the stupidest food concepts I've heard in LONG time. Honestly, if you want to avoid all supplements, then eat a good, hearty meal 2-3 hours before your workout, and eat a good, hearty meal not too long after your workout. Don't worry about it more than that, honestly. All these studies that get nutrition down to a perfect science, eating a "fast-digesting carb" and "fast-digesting protein" within the half-hour "optimal feeding window" after a workout... These studies are intended to be applied to professional athletes. I'm not saying it's wrong, but it's a lot simpler for us normal folks. Eat healthy and exercise properly and you'll get good results.

That said, I urge you to stop thinking in terms of protein, as if it's more important than all the other nutrients. Fat is hugely important; vitamins, minerals, and water are hugely important; carbohydrates can generally be a bit of an after-thought for most people as long as they're taking in adequate veggies.

Long story short, if you're looking to get lean: eat reasonably high-protein (from foods that consist mostly of protein or protein and fat: meat and fish and eggs), moderate-fat (from the aforementioned fatty meats and fish and eggs, and eating mostly fat-containing foods: nuts, seeds, olives/olive oil, avocados, coconuts, coconut oil, etc etc), and low-carbs (no bread or bread products like pasta, no grains like quinoa and oatmeal, no starchy veggies like sweet potato and carrots - in other words, lots of "above ground" veggies like broccoli, celery, cauliflower, cucumber, mushroom, etc etc). To put on size, ignore the no starch rule (which boosts your caloric intake and allows you to put on mass faster).

As for the kidneys thing... Protein is protein (yes, there are different types, but let's keep it simple). Take in too much of anything and you can worry about the load placed on the body, but AGAIN, these studies are referring to pro athletes who might be taking in 300-400+ grams of protein per day. You really don't need to worry about it. I have one or two scoops of whey per day, in a respective amount of protein shakes. It's convenient. But I respect you not wanting to use supplements - just understand that means you need to prepare a lot of food to take in enough to get the results you want, and it's quite the time commitment.

Here's an article, chances are pretty slim.

I eat relatively often, you gotta. Drink protein in the morning, along with a bowl of oatmeal, then normally black bean or turkey burgers for lunch then a decent dinner of whatever. I'm up to 5 or 6 miles a day running, I box three times a week and I lift. I'm not a power lifter by any meanns though, I do a lot of "fighter lifting", which is basically decent amount of weights for a hell of a lot of reps. I have a curling bar with about 70 pounds on it and end up doing about 6 or 7 sets of ten for curls, benches, squats, dead lifts. I ride my bike all around Cleveland too, and for some reason my legs are way more jacked than my upper body in terms of weights, I can leg press like a mother fucker.

Hello,longtime lurker first time poster.
I am fairly into fitness,but my main method of training is
rather unusual compared to most peoples.
I scale the 50-foot mast on my schooner,hands only.

Milk has 15-20% BCAA which is the same stuff in whey. I normally drink 500 mL of non-fat milk after lifting, and it works OK as far as I can tell. I also add either a banana or some Nesquik for sugars and minerals.

I dont drink milk,clogs up my lungs

Badass.

My mom bought a shakeweight and after a week she decided it was stupid and gave it to me. She's prone to stupid impulse buys like that. It's actually not too bad, I've been using it and my stamina while drumming is increasing nicely

yes, you are probably right and your post as well as Gelseth's linked article made me think about it in a bit different way than before.
Overall I'm quite confident with my overall shape and it's just my arms that don't seem to benefit from the training like nearly all other
parts.
Atm I think I consume about 120grams protein a day (round about) and maybe a whey drink after training or in the morning could be the
little extra push needed (when thinking about that possibly 160-170 grams would be needed with my weight at 85 kilo).

Will think about it a bit more and maybe a least give it a try. The fear that it will be harmful seems a bit unwarranted... We'll see.

If your arms aren't developing at the same pace as everything else, there are two things I'd suggest looking at. First, I'd make your sure your form is perfect. Chest up, tummy in, elbows at the sides and all that. If you know your form is bang on, I'd make sure that you're able to communicate with those muscles as well as possible. Practice flexing your arms for a few minutes everyday, so that, among other things, you can isolate them without movement of the elbow/arm, and you're as in touch with the right as with the left.

Uhh... How come? If you weren't aware of it, it's called buttermilk because it is the milk leftovers from churning butter, not because of fat content or because it has butter in it.



Also, no starch in carrots, actually.

In that vital/health center where I train we are kind of supervised by the instructors. Not in a "normal gym" style where you are shown how to exercise and that's all. because we all there were sent from our doctors/health insurances they really take a very close look to each exercise every time and as such we are conctantly corrected. So I think my form is good. However I will try flexing my arms more often. Maybe that and trying out one dose of whey everyday will bring some results.

When I was a teenager I studied up on exercise and used to read bodybuilding mags, so I know how to work each group of muscles without instruction. There's no need to pay out the arse to join a gym - you can workout at home and target whatever muscles you want.

sure you can (I did so before, too) but as I was sent there by my doc for spinal exercises and reha sports, the health insurance (a fine thing we have in germany) pays for it, making me just pay a few euros by myself. In addition to the spinal courses I can later train supervised on the machines and weights...

Of course whey and milk have similar BCAAs, whey is made from milk.

But - The biological value/bioavailibility of milk is lower than that of whey. Whey isolate is the best option (it costs the most), but it is absorbed by your body extremely fast. Whey concentrate has a lower bv but it also has a lower price (still absorbed much faster than regular milk).

Postworkout carbs should come from a glucose based source. Glucose replenishes muscle glycogen much more efficiently than fructose and lactose based sources. In fact, those sources can easily be converted into fat, especially if liver glycogen is already full.

My recommendation to most people is this:

Get a decent whey protein blend (it will have both isolate and concentrate in it). Use two scoops IMMEDIATELY postworkout (40-50 grams of protein total).

For carbs, add in 50-100 grams maltodextrin and/or dextrose (corn sugar) to your shake. You can get either of those at any home brewing supply store for extremely cheap (5-10 pounds for around $10). Ideally you should use half dextrose and half maltodextrin in your mix, for a total of around 50-100 grams of carbohydrates.

This is extremely cheap to do compared to ANY other postworkout option. Mixes of whey plus maltodextrin/dextrose cost 4 to 5 times as much as it costs to make on your own.

MacMoney: I get my buttermilk (rarely - once or twice a year) from my farmer, and there are little bits of butter floating around in it. It's amazing stuff, but definitely not low-fat (not that I see an issue with that). But perhaps there are other buttermilks I'm not aware of that have been skimmed or something. As for carrots, yes, it's true that they technically contain a negligible amount of starch, but it's really just a technicality. We can call them a "root vegetable" if you prefer - it doesn't change the fact that they are still best avoided by someone aiming to shed body fat, and I think it's easiest to lump them in the high-starch category as a way to remember (even though they don't contain starch, per se).

tronics: This is really far from the truth. Without a gym, or a reasonable investment in a home gym, it's just not possible to train the legs and the back optimally. (Most people need a lot more weight to hit the legs with, and the back needs pulling movements - tough to do without dumbbells, barbells, chin up bar, cables, etc etc.)

MeltedFace: While everything you said is true; in my opinion, it's still better to stick with real food. Taking in dextrose or waxy maize and whey isolate after every workout gets boring fast, and having a banana coconut almond shake or a berry walnut yogurt shake or something is so much more fun, allows for experimentation, and for 99% of people will work just as well as what you've suggested. (The 1% being pro athletes and bodybuilders who train all day and need that kind of literally optimal recovery.)

No way!


OK, so can you tell me the incremental difference of BV between say 80% WPC and 90% WPI and how it translates inside your body?


Your liver glycogen won't be full... but let's say it is, are you saying that glucose cannot be as readily converted to fatty acids?

I don't think there's anything wrong with purchasing whey (as long as the blend is non-proprietary and the stuff is made in a cGMP facility).
But pure glucose? Is that even necessary? There's plenty of simple sugars in fruits. They're not expensive, and no, they won't make you fat. In fact, they'll even hydrate you, give you minerals, and make you feel full.

My own recommendation: don't worry about calories, BV, or any sort of equations for that matter. Keep your mind clear; eat good, clean whole foods, drink lots and lots of water, supplement with whey if you need to, and you'll be in top shape in less than a year. I promise.

Agree 100%.

The difference is that immediately postworkout, your body is going to utilize more of the Isolate than it is of the Concentrate. It's not to say that Concentrate is ineffective, it's that Isolate is more effective.



I said that glucose is much more efficient at replenishing muscle glycogen than other carbohydrates are. Let's say liver glycogen is full and muscle glycogen is not. It will take less glucose to fully replenish muscle glycogen than other carbohydrate sources.



No it's not necessary. It's not even necessary to purchase whey to get results. It's about achieving results faster than normal.



I'm not arguing with that, but you can achieve results even faster if you do a few simple things with supplementation.

I explained everything in detail because people always want to know why they are doing something. I could have just as easily put it like this:

Take 40-50 grams of Whey protein immediately postworkout.
Mix with 50-100 grams of maltodextrin/dextrose. You can buy this stuff for cheap at any home brewing supply store.

That's pretty simple to follow.

Does anyone has any good excersizes for building out the back of your shoulders? The back of my delts need some serious build up. Also, I use dumbells for shrugs, but I'm at the point now where I need bigger dumbells than my gym has to offer. I usually do 3 sets of 10, and I'm not quite sure what to do. I don't want to stay at the same weight(110lbs) for ever.

You didn't answer my question. How much more difference does it make at the end of the week? An extra milligram of muscle? And does that even justify the extra 30$ cost you pay for isolates?


Fair enough, but then most carb sources we eat are already abundant in glucose and disaccharides (glucose+glucose/fructose/galactose) which can be digested in less than an hour. This is of course in contrast to BCAAs which are usually scarce in the same sources (which is why I think getting whey makes more sense).

I run 6 times a week. I do some pushups and stuff. Lifting weights if for douche bags. jk

I don't know why but that's sounds really fucking delicious right about now

For rear delts, the best exercises are rows and pulls; but you have to make sure you're initiating the movement with the shoulders, and that you're adducting the shoulder blades with each pull. You can also use old bodybuilding staples, like bent-over dumbbell lateral raises and reverse flys. For good, strong, functional rear delts though, nothing better than some good old rows (whether dumbbell, barbell, cable, etc) done perfectly.

For shrugs, I guess the obvious answer would be to start using a barbell instead of dumbbells. Also, think about using some different exercises that will develop your traps, such as cleans.

Thanks for the tips, but I have no idea what a clean is

7 miles around the lake today, excellent run in the 40 degree weather.

@swayze and tronics

What would you recommend as home alternatives for cable (tricep) push downs, skull crushers?

Anyone else into powerlifting? I'm hoping to hit a 500 lb raw squat next week.

^ That's a hell of a squat. My ankles and knees are a bit fucked up, so squatting is really tough for me. That's quite impressive!

Anyone else get this?

I started a weight training class this semester in school and we run every other day. I've been running 1.5k (0.9 miles, I think) in under ten minutes, which is good, but I usually get mad cramps in my side (in particular, the last rib on the right side gets rather sore, and the space between my neck and collarbone [you'll find a vein if you press down and feel around] starts to pain. This always happens when doing running, and its only during running that this happens.

I guess what I'm wondering is does anyone know if this is normal or not? Anyone else get it? How do I deal with this if it isn't normal?

Maybe you're getting a stitch? I get those on occasion, but not all the time.

As for the pain in your neck, I'm not too sure. Maybe tell someone about that.

Yea, you just described a stitch. The prevention section is concise and should help you understand better.

Neck pain could be a number of things. But in context to your situation, I imagine that this site explains exactly what you're experiencing.

just back from my saturday swimming session (luckily the swimbath is right around the corner). 1500 metres of breast- and back swimming (changing every
two rows of 50metres) and afterwards doing pull-up on the highboard*s ladder.

I want to do pull ups at home but don't know where to put a pull-up bar as the door frames in our appaartement are all of a wooden
struccture and I'm afraid it wont hold that good if I hang down with my weight... any one experience with pull up bars etc.?

Neat exercise for triceps: Lay down on a bench, holding a dumbbell in each hand. Raise your arms toward the ceiling. Let the dumbbells slowly and precisely come down towards your face, while keeping your upper arms (above the elbow) completely still at a 90 degree angle. Raise dumbbells back up to the starting position. I don't know the specific name for this exercise, but what I do know is that I've been doing these and my triceps have been growing very fast and getting stronger even faster. I've been using 50's for now, next time I'll be using 55's for sure.

I've started weight training in school this year. I never lifted before so I was a noob. At first I barely maxed 25lb (45lb bar, 25lb both sides, 95lb) but now I can almost hit almost a plate, which is a quarter way into the school year.

I also plan on hitting two plates on squats soon.

Skull crushers

For shoulders and traps, barbell rows are really neat too.

Thanks, sounds like skull crushers. I didn't want to join a gym just to do cables when I can do everything else at home.

Uuuhgz, been unable to lift for like 4 days now. Goddamn work/strep throat.