http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LpB1E4E ... r_embedded

I just saw this video and feel I need to get it out there. I know they also make parts for other companies, but this company is a total disgrace. Other guitar companies are probably this way too, and only the musicians themselves can help change that.

Good luck with that. You're basically limiting yourself to MIA or MIJ instruments. Not that thats a bad thing, as these are superior, but your wallet might hate you.

That's quite a selfish response. So, you would be fine with buying cheap guitars even if the workers were being exploited almost to the point of slavery? That's unfortunate.

well, some of us don't have very big wallets, but that doesn't mean we stand for forced labor. truth is, if this is the only supply meeting the demand then we're fucked (and i mean "only" metaphorically). either buy it or find another passion.

I heard Cort was also responsible for making Jacksons.
Japanese, American or European-made guitars are rare and expensive. The best thing you could do is to list them in this topic. For example, I know Lag Arkanes are made in France.

Cort makes low end guitars for number of companies. Just after seeing the video i checked up to see if Cort also made stuff for Dean, since i use a couple of their cheaper basses. So far, Dean is in the clear.

Cort’s main production focus is not on Cort-brand guitars, but rather on contract work for numerous other companies. Generally, large companies contract Cort to build lower-priced guitars that have that company’s brand on them. Ibanez, Parkwood, ESP, Schecter, G&L Tribute series line of guitars are among the most well-known brands that Cort produces.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cort_Guitars

South Korea isn't some third world country. If they don't like the working conditions, they can get another job. If they CAN'T get another job, then they should be glad to have one at all, or relocate where there are more jobs.

It’s nice to be privileged, isn’t it?

fuck that shit. i love schecter and ibanez. i boycott nothing

Many, many things are manufactured overseas in "sweatshop" conditions. It's never going to change because then companies would lose out on their sweet, sweet profits. I think it sucks that people are working in those conditions. People deserve to be paid a living wage that is reasonable (rather than making them work for next to nothing.)

The sad truth is that boycotting all companies that indulge in such practices is difficult.Yes, you CAN do it. but most of the products in the "big box" retail shops are packed full of "sweatshop" goods and that is where the majority of consumers shop.

Hey man, I'm not "privileged" at all. My family and I struggle to get by as it is. But, seeing as I am one of the few here that is against human slavery, I am not going to buy Cort guitars or anything they make. So Korean workers should live and work in absolutely horrible conditions with horrible pay just so you can buy cheap guitars. It truly sickens me that instead of spending a few hundred dollars more on a guitar you would be perfectly happy with encouraging people to work like serfs. I cannot comprehend someone being that selfish.

I'm not saying this is just Cort guitars, but this is just unethical. No one should be exploited like that for the sake of the consumer. In hindsight, maybe a boycott would not be the best course of action, because that would just cause the plants to shut down and put more people out of work, but something should be done.

"On July 12, 2007 a Cort worker set himself on fire in protest, and on October 15, 2008 workers conducted a 30-day hunger strike and sit-in occupation on a 40 meter electricity tower."

So that's okay as long as you get your cheap axe? Come on people. Are you really that evil?

One of the complaints in the video was that they worked in a factory with no windows. That is nowhere near horrible. In part 2 (I think, might've been part 3) one of them said that they were berated for running in the factory. Safety issue, not horrible. Argue with the language or the way it was handled, not just that you got yelled at. In the same video a worker claimed that if they fell and dropped a guitar the company was more concerned with the guitar. That's a bit mean spirited, but again, not necessarily horrible.

These guys clearly do have legitimate complaints with the way the whole thing was handled by Cort, including the apparently bogus bankruptcy closing of the factory, but it seems to me that they could have done a far, far better job of presenting their case in the videos.

Nah man, I was responding to mattp’s bootstraps ‘get a new job or be thankful for the one you have’ attitude.

Unfortunately this is how capitalism works. No one likes it, but its the ugly truth. If a boycott cannot be used, one must target the consumers and show the injustice, and unfortunately, things like this don't really pull on peoples heartstrings very much. I hope something gets done.

Oh sorry about that then man.

I'm actually on another level of selfishness -- those MIK Cort-ish guitars feel and sound like shit to me, so I won't buy them. Has nothing to do with worker conditions, which are relative anyway... I'm sure there are subsistence farmers in India or mercenary children in Africa who would love to work in a guitar factory.



I've worked my ass off in a first world nation to get marketable skills and a decent job. There is no real reason these people can't do the same.

See, that’s exactly my point. You can’t comprehend that in a first world country there are still lots of people getting the shit end of the stick. This isn’t just a matter of people needing to work harder, that’s ignorant. Economic exploitation of the poor and uneducated is a very real thing, and many people simply do not have the choices or opportunities that you or I had.

Assuming you’re American, you shouldn’t have to look far to see what I’m talking about.

I know that musicians are the primary target consumers for this discussion but I can't help but feel that some other sub-forum would be more appropriate.

Bonged, as for this being inherent in capitalism, that assumes some fantasy form of capitalism where there are no government regulations on labor. Such a system does not now exist and never existed, regulation is a perfectly fine way to ensure certain standards in all sorts of fields. Its not like commercially successful countries operate like some sort of economic Somalia. I do see what you mean though. I guess one could call certain worker's rights "socialist" though neither capitalism nor socialism really apply perfectly to what happens in reality.

Given that we live in a world were sovereign nations exercise the control over their citizens, there is often little people can do to rectify injustice in other countries. Boycotting one particular brand in the grand scheme of things will do little to make it so people with less rights somehow have more rights. I am reminded of an anectdote where textile sweapshop was shut down in some poor country and a lot of the worked ended up as prostitutes instead. My point is, the problem is structural and any boycotting effort is going to be futile in fixing that kind of problem. While I see where people are coming from, buying from sweatshops etc. are a fact of life so long as democratic/developed societies trade with poorer ones.

So say thay only musicians can change this is a real stretch. Unfortunate as it may be, I am sure some local labor union would be much more likely than a small group of boycotting consumers from an internet forum. Maybe contacting the video uploader to organize something would be more effective if anyone wanted to take on a cause.

Wow so many people here are just ridiculous.

Good thing I play a Carvin.

If you want to boycott items that are made in poor labor conditions, you will probably need to turn over more than half the items you own.

That doesn't mean I'm for these kinds of labor practices, but someone's youtube video on Cort guitars is just one drop in the bucket.

This right here. Go and make a list of items you own that are made in China/Indonesia, then go do a research about the working conditions of those who manufacture it, and then come back with that hippie "how evil are you" BS. Seriously.

I'd hate to see a cow slaughtered, but I still like them burgers. Just saying.

I have already said this. But the fact that these people are still working in terrible conditions, something does need to change.

Until we have robot slaves who do all work for all humanity, there will ALWAYS be people working in terrible conditions simply because these terrible conditions are relative to the comfortable conditions we have. The 'terrible' conditions you complain about are better than what a lot of people have to deal with now, and are far better than what conditions would be like for the majority of people back in the middle ages. In the future, people will decry the terrible working conditions of office workers -- the sitting causes obesity, the keyboards cause arthritis, and the paramagnetic electroviewer causes eye strain.

People choose to work in sweatshop conditions because, ultimately, it is preferable to them than the alternative (ie, subsistence farming, starving, prostitution, etc.) Companies benefit because they get to hire cheap labor, the people benefit because they actually have a job and are strengthening their local economy, and the consumers benefit because they get cheaper products. If you make their working conditions the same as in the US, the companies will see no advantage in opening facilities in the poorer nations, further retarding their economic development. This would provide more manufacturing jobs in the US, but prices of goods would skyrocket, and the overall effect would be negative for the people who would benefit from the jobs in the first place (poor, unskilled people).

The fact of the matter is that life is hard. We have it easy in the first world. There has been hundreds of years of economic, scientific, and cultural development to make life less shitty. There is still a lot of work left to do, of course. But we're further along than the third world countries, who, for a multitude of reasons, haven't developed as much. Their choice is between hard labor and death. In time, things will be better for them. Boycotting their alternative to death certainly won't help.

So the fact that these people absolutely have to work in these conditions makes it okay for people like us to not give a shit? I hear what you're saying, but I'm sorry I cannot agree. I don't think that people should have to make the decision between hard labor or death. We're not savages.

There is really no fair way to construe mattp's last post as saying that because bad things exist in the world it is fine that they exist.

Ugh, you're an idiot with 0 reading/world comprehension.

As for this specific example, read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_South_Korea South Korea has a great economy. These people don't HAVE to work for Cort. They can get an education and work elsewhere. Or just flat out work elsewhere. In Korea you can make a living off of Starcraft for fuck's sake.

As for the people who are actually suffering? You don't think that "people should have to make the decision between hard labor or death." Well, they do. People have had to make that decision from the dawn of time until now, and probably will for a long time yet. There will always be hard labor that needs to be done, and hard labor will continue to be the first few rungs of the ladder that allow people to climb out of the darkness of an undeveloped world. Until we get those robot slaves anyway.

You buy stuff like that every day without even thinking about it. Most products, or parts of them are made in China today (I realize that Cort is from South Korea though, just think about the working conditions in China which must be a lot worse). Everything from electronics to sneakers. What makes this any different?

So I'm an idiot because I don't agree with you? Isn't that an intelligent viewpoint? Just stop, you're making an ass of yourself.

I know that there has to be hard labor in this world, but making guitars, toys, or whatever the fuck else the world wants is not hard labor. I never said it was. I'm saying that the conditions and shifts these people have to work are preposterous. Have you ever thought about the fact that having a good economy is not the same as having a large quantity of jobs available? A lot of these people have to work in horrid conditions and I'm sorry, but that's wrong. And it's wrong for you not to care. I'm not saying it's only in Korea or only with guitar companies, quite the contrary, but regardless of where the factories are or what they're making people shouldn't have to go a week without being able to change their masks.

I have already said this. You can't buy anything anymore that isn't made in a sweatshop, and this is no different at all. I'm just trying to use something close to home to bring awareness of this problem to light to the people of metal-archives, but apparently some people don't care what happens to others as long as they can pay a little less for stuff.

We all get exploited in one way or another, some more and some less. In the end, for some people it's not just a job, it's a matter of survival.

Goddammit! This is exactly my point! Read people.

What I'm trying to say is I understand that there has to be hard labor in the world, but it's the conditions in which people do this labor that I'm against.

You're basically asking for people to be good. Won't work.

Besides, telling the people here to boycott won't do a thing. You need to speak to artists with considerably greater influence, power, and contacts... Although chances are they're already more familiar with the problem than you are.

Want to help? Start a small donation fund and get these workers some decent lawyers to make their case against the company.

Any ideas how I would go about doing that?

Don't know for sure, never tried it. I suspect you're going to have to start a website/facebook awareness page with articles & videos on the issue, and a donation account, then promote it like you'd promote your band: spam the link everywhere, on every music/musician/guitar forums out there.

Once you gather the support and the money for the workers, someone else can advise them on how to proceed with the legal action stuff. I suppose the goal is to get Cort to improve work conditions and workers' treatment, in addition to rectifying their salaries and/or paying compensations to everyone who got assfucked working in their factories.

Lots of work, but I honestly don't see any other way to make an impact on the matter.

Short intervention: I read massive free-market capitalist propaganda in mattp's posts, but it's just utter bullshit that could be quite easily countered both from an economic and political point of view.

The great capitalist lie: "development" (i.e. Westernizaion of the whole world) implies rising standard of living.

Unless you provide historical proof that lower classes were more exploited in the Middle Ages than today, stop spreading that lie please.

Besides, I don't think that life expectancy is rising... Quite the contrary, in fact. But I'm getting off topic.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with your point of view here, but to raise a question that I feel digs to the heart of the matter: Who, exactly, would be raising that standard of living?

The company certainly will not: historically speaking, corporations almost never improve working conditions on their own behalf. The free market certainly will not: even if the boycott proposed is initially successful, all those Ibanez, Fender, etc. Companies already have contracts with Cort. The boycott has to be widespread enough to significantly hurt guitar sales across the board, AND it has to do so long enough to force those companies to terminate their contracts. One or two quarters isn't going to be enough. This means you're relying on the South Korean government to do what the US did during the early 20th century, which is to step in and make it a law to maintain better working conditions. They won't want to on the basis on the economic fallout that would occur, but the government is the one body with enough power to make that change.

Hate to break it, but a boycott against one company will not make the government change its policies. I recommend a different course of action.

That's pretty bad. If I buy another instrument I'll definitely look into where the parts come from.

But guys...these are economically depressed countries. It's not like Cort came in and took away all the nice high-paying IT/engineering jobs. For these guys it's a choice between working for Cort and working somewhere even crappier.

What?