If Korn went in the direction of their demo do you think the would have been a solid rock band? And would have released decent music that is listenable for more then a few seconds ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8SM0izGPdg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjriBwaUhKs

If they actually would make decent music..

First off, I would greatly encourage any dissenters of Korn (which include myself!) to check these tracks out. "Blind" is really metal, all the way through, with meaty production, chunky riffs, some interesting funk moments and occasional dissonance. It's way, way heavier than the original, and the riffs are actually quite good throughout. Johnathon Davis's voice is still terrible, even though he shows a lot of passion. He just doesn't cut it. "Alive Neidermeyer's Mind" or whatever the fuck that second track is named, is not as stellar, but still plenty metal. Lots of chunky palm muting, some nice pedal effects, even a bit of feedback. If they had thrown in a bit of solo work, gotten a different singer and focused on less miserably angst-ridden lyrics, Korn could have easily been the kings of funk/alternative metal.

inb4 Korn gets accepted on the Archives

But really, this is pretty good. I still prefer their nu-metal, though, from what I've heard of it. This is really good, though - it's like 90s-style groove metal.

I really don't find any of this substantially different from Korn's style on their first couple albums. They're not substantially different apart from Davis' vocals being brought out more extensively. I think your perceptions might be getting colored by the dirtier production.

In my opinion these demos were more focused metal and didn't over exaggerated the hip hop influence as the first and second album and i didn't know if you meant by saying the first few meaning up to FTL but that album was a piece of shit that only got mainstream attention hence TRL and is beaten by these demos by miles

I don't know, I thought the first two albums they did weren't as overtly hip-hop influenced as Follow The Leader and after. Apart from the obvious nods to hip-hop like the cover track on Life Is Peachy I always considered them to be doing a pretty straightforward variety of metal-derived rock music. A lot of Rage Against The Machine influence is what I hear combined with a more metallic sense of heaviness.

Too late.

If you're actually interested in hearing the beginnings of Korn, listen to L.A.P.D., which was essentially Korn before they found Jonathan Davis. It's really corny stuff, though. (No pun intended.)

Weird. I don't think they're quite metal enough to go in the archives though. It's more like metal goes in and out of their music at times, but they're not a metal band. I remember checking the archives a few times and not seeing them in there, I guess this is recent!

Still sounds worthless to me. A little different, but still awful.

not too recent.

The band was added in as some kind of april fools prank a couple years back and then quickly removed, thankfully.

And, the question: If Korn went in the direction of their demo do you think the would have been a solid rock band? And would have released decent music that is listenable for more then a few seconds ? My answer: No, and no. In my humble opinion that band represents everything that went wrong with heavy rock and mainstream "metal" in the last fifteen years. And while to those of us who know better, Korn will never truely be a metal band, sadly to the legions of mainstream fifteen year old mallcore kids, that is the only kind of "metal" they know.

just to balance out the prevailing opinion in the thread, korn is an alright band, though i haven't explored their music much past Life Is Peachy. their debut is one of my favorite rock albums.

Bands like Korn serve a purpose though. By having a band like Korn in the mainstream, it helps expose kids to this kind of music, and hopefully they delve deeper into metal through the gateway provided by a band like Korn or Slipknot. Hell, I got into metal with Slipknot, and I'm still a fan of their music.

Well I'm a fan of most of Korn's work as is, so it doesn't really bother me how they have turned out. But all bands have the potential to be something that appeals to other people.

we don't need a watered down 'heavy' band in the mainstream to get fans, if people are truly interested in this music they will find it somehow. fuck that 'purpose', we all could do without it

I think we could all do without A Sense of Purpose, but I'm not sure about the purpose itself.

I once read somewhere that Korn (specifically Jonny D) were influenced by Mr. Bungle, to the point where they used a chord Trey Spruance used in a couple Bungle tracks as the basis of their riff-writing or something like that. I feel like that very mild Mr. Bungle influence is about the only interesting thing the band has ever had going for them. Jonathan Davis is no Mike Patton in either voice or writing.

I only like Issues.

Korn blows. End of story.

well korn can't be "watered down" because they never even set out to be a metal band.

Some songs from their debut were listenable - as a rock songs anyway. The vocals have been awful ever since.

I think a good share of current metal listeners were exposed to it via Korn, Slipknot, Soulfly, Deftones and so on; some of them explored the genre for more extreme music, some others didn't pass the metallica/pantera stage or are mainly listening metalcore, so nu metal is kinda useful.

Never really like Korn, but without bands like Disturbed or SOAD, I never would have became a metal fan. I don't listen to them now (not out of any type of retroactive hatred, they just don't interest me anymore), but they certainly helped and I'm grateful for that. I don't think eliminating them would do anything to help either. For some reason, I doubt there are people debating whether they should spend their money on a Korn T-shirt or a Slough Feg album.

Sharp and Slender is correct, except I'd go further and say that this isn't really any dirtier sounding than their first album..in fact ROss Robertson or whatever his name is gave them a much more gritty, live sound that suited the band far better. If the band had kept the production style and belaboured approach of "Blind" in this demo version (which I hadn't heard before today), they would have been just another band of nobodys clogging up the bargain bins. There's a bit more palm muting in this version. So what...that hardly makes it more metal; in fact this version is worse because the groove is nonexistent, stilted, too slow...Yes, I bought Korn's debut in 1994 and enjoyed it for a time; it was one of the first heavy records I owned and "Blind" was one of the highlights. I can't believe anybody would think this version is better. is that even the same drummer? He sounds like he's playing with lead hands!

The production on Korn's self-titled is extremely weird. I've always been up in the air as to whether I like it or not. It has an oddly intimate feel, but also sort of... boxy? Everything sounds like it's made of wood. The drum production in particular always catches me off guard with that overly hot snare. Very perplexing stuff. Still like that album a lot, simply as a heavy, metal-influenced rock album. It conveys a different sort of anger and aggression than metal does- not better, not worse, just different, and it's a nice change of pace sometimes.

I'm sure im not alone here in having bought a korn cd as one of my first ever cd purchases. Hearing Freak on a Leash on the radio for the first time really got me interested in heavier stuff and I loved the video. People forget how original what they were doing was due to all the copycats but they really had something cool going on for a while. They've been pretty much pure shit since the rather great Untouchables album but everything before that (save Issues which is kind of weak) is pretty damn heavy and awesome. I remember Life is Peachy being quite jarringly heavy to my ears after the more mainstream "Follow the Leader" and I would have to give the band credit for easing me into extreme music.
PS the guitar tone on those demos is pretty fucking metal I dont care what nobody thinks.

The blind song just sounded like a worse version of the album version, with alot more annoying parts that got cut out for the album version. It did not seem better to me at all or more metal, just a less good version of it.

................

I've only ever heard the version of Blind that appeared on the debut. It was a pretty good song but I think Issues is Korn's best album easily.

Ross Robinson had a very raw production value and their first album was heavy and really straight forward dare i say garage rock, LIP kinda had a better production more clean but songs like Wicked with that deballed singer from deftones rapping

pure shit

I really didn't think that demo sounded any better than the studio album that followed it. The song "Alive" was re-recorded for the Take A Look In The Mirror album and sounds a lot better than this version.

Indeed, I've always noticed that too. Their first album is truly odd, and its sense of despair and anger is pretty genuine, maybe because it deals with more mundane, "real world" subjects like parental abuse, being picked on, instead of fantasy. It's an odd album. There are some bad songs, and some good songs too. My favorite would be "Shoots and Ladders".

I wonder why some people get so defensive when Korn is being discussed. Is it because they are associated with metal by those who don't know metal?

I think people get defensive because Korn is associated with metal, yet they don't have solos, Davis's singing is pathetic and winy, the riffing is often overly repetitive and full of douche grooves, there is a rather obnoxious use of dissonant intervals (especially the minor second), the lyrics are melodramatic and miserable, the hip-hop elements are lame, and there is too much focus on the slap bass, which is really just there to sound cool rather than add anything useful.

I never have considered Korn a metal band, but what many people on here don't get is that metal music is not synonymous with the word "good". There are horrible metal bands and there are amazing rock bands which I find Korn to be. I think hating on Korn is wrong considering how much they have done in their entire career. I find them an amazing band in many aspects, but them currently just jumping a bandwagon and going for with a collaboration with Skrillex is pretty fucking lame... let's just pretend that bit didn't happen.

what would be the significance of calling it metal?

there's plenty of pussy metal, so it's not like calling them rock is somehow an insult/lower status.

who is it that wishes to consider them metal, and why?

Let these venerable threads die in peace, please.