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Nightgaunt
I'll Swallow Your Soul

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 9:50 pm
Posts: 6240
PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:02 pm 
 

Uruk-Hai was submitted by a senior staffer. Bearing this fact in mind, I have not personally seen a definitively-presented case to prove that it does not qualify for the Archive in some way--normally, there is simply the assertion that it is not metal and not a side-project, and should be removed; a mere assertion countered in some capacity by the mere fact that it was added by a staffer (presumably a person who knows the rules and had personal knowledge or good reason to believe that the band qualified). This is the first occasion on which I have personally been presented with the more specific claim that it (Uruk-Hai) predates this Hugin fellow's involvement in any metal band. Without doing some active in-depth research, and assuming the Archive's chronology is correct, this assertion is not definitively proven by the information the Archive contains. Hrossharsgrani, supposedly a band with variously metal and ambient stylings, and one which Hugin is the core member of, was reportedly formed in 1998, with various demos and a debut release in 1999. Uruk-Hai reportedly was formed in 1999, with a split in 2001 and a compilation and proper debut release in 2003 (so there is a period of early overlap in the two bands' activities). Thus, the case may or may not hold water (note that as it far predates the additional distribution requirement, this is not imminently relevant, nor is it necessarily relevant that Hrossharsgrani may not have begun as a metal band). It is certainly possible that more depth of information may bear out the case for removal (I personally have no real knowledge of these groups and can certainly conceive of this as a possibility), but it would not be appropriate for one of us to remove it in the absence of a more complete case, any more than it would be appropriate to add a band with a borderline genre tag based solely on the word of the submitter that it is metal. Perhaps such a case has been presented in the past (and thus could conceivably be presented again), but for my part, I have only ever seen simpler assertions, many of them steeped in emotion.

Before you begin to indulge your pet persecution complex again, Viral, consider Morrigan's position (or the source of her displeasure). You made what you have openly admitted to have been an assumption, but you initially stated it as a stone cold fact, with an air of the sardonic to boot. This is clearly the source of her objection in this particular case, and I don't believe you are simple enough to be genuinely oblivious of or unable to understand this (few people would be). Ditto the idea that someone might be insulted by your pretending such obliviousness in defense of getting ahead of yourself for a moment (e.g. "I'm completely blameless, it was a 'legitimate claim'"). Do I see a "sorry, please calm down, I was misinformed?" No. Only excuses, and appeals to your woebegone status as a favored punching bag. Ever heard the term "self-fulfilling prophecy?" If not, you might do well to familiarize yourself with it.

As for Jesu, I've personally always been of a mind to nuke the shit out of them, based on what I'd heard. But it is a very famous band, and one purportedly metal for a fraction of its career (its degree of fame suggests that it must have been examined by at least some significant portion of the staff, which is why I will not blame Viral and others entirely for assuming it must have been an officially adjudicated case). It is, again, something that will require more procedural review. One of these days, perhaps I'll find myself able to be fucked to do it.
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Nightgaunt
I'll Swallow Your Soul

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 9:50 pm
Posts: 6240
PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:07 pm 
 

Thank you, UndeadIdiot. Minutiae of that sort are exactly the reason why it is not meet to act on assertions alone, even if said assertions are chronically leveled.
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droneriot
RETIRED

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
Posts: 5241
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:10 pm 
 

I'm quite aware of that release, it's been mentioned in a previous discussion about the project. Note that if anyone in the staff (or anyone else on this site) had ever heard that release, it's likely it'd have track lengths entered. Anyone can claim that any non-metal band has a metal release, if no one's ever heard that one it makes no difference.

And of course the submission predates that release by six years.

Also, on the subject of being submitted by a staff member, what difference does it make? In april '04 MMisantropo was very new to the staff anyway, had he submitted the band just a few months earlier it would suddenly be a whole different case? The rules were interpreted far less strictly back in those days and a lot of stuff got through that had to be deleted later on, alot of stuff that was submitted by users of all ranks. Times change, and given the evidence I doubt MMisantropo would have submitted that same project today, or in 2008, or even in 2006.
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Halloween
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 10:23 am
Posts: 540
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:30 pm 
 

I just brought it up in case of it actually being metal. It would be a shame to have to re-add all of the information to that page if it were to be deleted and it is actually metal.

There is a track from it on this myspace. I know it doesn't prove all the tracks are, but it adds more validity to the claim of the notes..

http://www.myspace.com/runensteinrecords

Edit: I found Northhammer and Die Gemeinschaft. They are metal as well. A lot of these tracks come from the older releases. Maybe the band was added due to that.

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Nightgaunt
I'll Swallow Your Soul

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 9:50 pm
Posts: 6240
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:04 am 
 

The point is that the mere fact of the possibility of an untoward addition cannot/should not in itself be taken as sufficient reason to remove a band, excepting those rare cases which are absolutely cut-and-dry (even my brief examination of this case shows that it is not one of those). In cases where there is both evidence that a submission may be viable (e.g. this was added by a mod / formation dates suggest the possibility that it could be parsed as a side-project / apparently it has a release which could be metal) and evidence that it may not be ( e.g. due to its early submission it was subject to less stringent standards / it may not be able to be parsed as a side-project), a case that is stronger than these sorts of basic assertions of possibility will usually be necessary to enable rapid removal of the band. I have not yet seen such a case presented concerning this particular band, though again, I grant the possibility that one could be made.
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uglur
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:42 pm
Posts: 173
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:19 am 
 

on the side-project issue:
Uruk Hai was formed after hugin recorded with hrossharsgrani the demo named "uruk-hai" but because the sound was more ambient than the hrossharsgrani stuff he thought it does not fit to this project.
therefor he started uruk-hai as a side project for the more ambient releases, first demo "in durins hall" is nothing else than a re-recorded version of the "uruk hai" demo from hrossharsgrani.
recently the newer uruk-hai material is developing more into metal/ambient than pure ambient

about angband:
i listened to the whole angband release. there are some entirely metal-tracks as back in the fields, northhammer...
but also a lot of metal/ambient songs on it.

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droneriot
RETIRED

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
Posts: 5241
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:35 am 
 

uglur wrote:
about angband:
i listened to the whole angband release. there are some entirely metal-tracks as back in the fields, northhammer...
but also a lot of metal/ambient songs on it.

A moderator would have to hear it to determine whether it is predominantly metal or not. Even if it is a side-project, I do not see any release through a label with worldwide distribution.
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droneriot
RETIRED

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
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Location: Germany
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:51 am 
 

Morrigan wrote:
droneriot wrote:
The most infamous example is probably Uruk-Hai (Aut),

So (in)famous that I've once again never heard of them either. Go figure.

The infamy of this and other such projects is confined to this thread and its predecessor. Perhaps you should look at it more often, because as I explained it is pretty much the main source of any false rumours regarding suspected owner exceptions.
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MMisantropo
Magnificient Degluter of Yummy Ants

Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 10:52 pm
Posts: 2739
Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:50 pm 
 

I had no idea it was me you were talking about till I read my nickname. If you'd asked me five minutes ago, I'd have answered that I'd never heard of this Uruk-Hai band.

I don't listen to ambient side-projects at all. Sometimes moderators submit bands in order to fix split albums, because of a user report, or for moving an album wrongly added to an homonymous band... Again, I have no idea what was the case here. And yes, the rules were way less strict and less clear/understood six years ago. Feel free to reevaluate this band's presence in the archives.

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droneriot
RETIRED

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
Posts: 5241
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:05 pm 
 

Please merge:

Samhain (Aut): http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=17159
Samhayn: http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=64196


(edit) Merci, mes amis.
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Halloween
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 10:23 am
Posts: 540
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:59 pm 
 

Why was this added? http://metal-archives.com/band.php?id=3540310329

Sorry UndeadIdiot, Encyclopaedia Metallum was forced to reject your submission for the band Atra (Australia), for the following reason:

Unfortunately the name change is not significant enough, sorry.

If you would like to object to this rejection, please do so (politely!) in the appropriate thread in the suggestions and complaints forum. Do not e-mail moderators directly about this.

Sincerely,
Encyclopaedia Metallum

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Sleazer777
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:06 pm
Posts: 45
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:38 pm 
 

UndeadIdiot wrote:
Why was this added? http://metal-archives.com/band.php?id=3540310329

Sorry UndeadIdiot, Encyclopaedia Metallum was forced to reject your submission for the band Atra (Australia), for the following reason:

Unfortunately the name change is not significant enough, sorry.

If you would like to object to this rejection, please do so (politely!) in the appropriate thread in the suggestions and complaints forum. Do not e-mail moderators directly about this.

Sincerely,
Encyclopaedia Metallum


Because this band is added by METAL LORD aka PhantomOTO(And these guys with biger rank can't go wrong ;) ).You're just small fish here.

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Witcher
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 am
Posts: 6077
Location: Czech Republic
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 1:18 am 
 

The two pages should be merged.

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Sleazer777
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:06 pm
Posts: 45
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:01 am 
 

I have one question here.For example I checked bands submited by Lord_Sauron.Here's the list :

Quote:

November 24th, 2007

Severance (Ita) Heavy Metal/Hard Rock from Italy added at 13:15
Steve Minelli Heavy Metal from Italy added at 13:12
Rife (Ita) Hard Rock/Heavy Metal from Italy added at 13:06
Powerage (Ita) Heavy Metal from Italy added at 13:03
New Age (Ita) Hard Rock/Heavy Metal from Italy added at 12:59
Madhouse (Ita) Thrash Metal with Funk influences from Italy added at 12:57
Motor Sound Spartak Heavy Metal from Italy added at 12:56
Megahertz (Ita) Heavy Metal from Italy added at 12:55
Mob Rules (Ita) Heavy Metal from Italy added at 12:53
Meserschmitt Heavy Metal from Italy added at 12:51
Metal Force (Ita) Heavy Metal from Italy added at 12:49
Lochness (Ita) Heavy Metal/Hard Rock from Italy added at 12:48
Live Hard Rock/Heavy Metal from Italy added at 12:46
Liars Heavy Metal from Italy added at 12:46
Hell Bastards Heavy Metal from Italy added at 12:43
Infire Heavy Metal from Italy added at 12:43
Interceptor (Ita) Heavy Metal from Italy added at 12:43
High Speed Steel Heavy Metal from Italy added at 12:40
Hensel & Grendel Heavy Metal from Italy added at 12:38
Heavyside Heavy Metal from Italy added at 12:35
Graveless (Ita) Heavy Metal from Italy added at 12:32
Elektradrive Heavy Metal/Hard Rock (until 1987), Melodic Hard Rock/AOR (later) from Italy added at 12:27
Deadyn Heavy Metal from Italy added at 12:26
Disaster (Ita) Thrash Metal from Italy added at 12:24
Def Killer Heavy Metal from Italy added at 12:20
Dark Queen Heavy Metal from Italy added at 12:19
Capricorn (Ita) Traditional Metal from Italy added at 12:19
Crazy Band (Ita) Traditional Metal from Italy added at 12:19
Darkwish Traditional Metal from Italy added at 12:19
Circus Nebula Traditional Heavy Metal from Italy added at 12:13
Crom (ita) Heavy Metal from Italy added at 12:12
Corroded (Ita) Thrash Metal from Italy added at 12:10
Bloody Axe Traditional Metal from Italy added at 12:09
Brewery Traditional Metal from Italy added at 12:09
Battlefield (Ita) Heavy Metal from Italy added at 12:03
Brainstorm (Ita) Heavy Metal from Italy added at 12:02
Atrox (Ita) Thrash Metal from Italy added at 11:58
Black Head (Ita) Traditional Heavy Metal from Italy added at 11:57
Black Deal Thrash Metal from Italy added at 11:56
Ascia Thrash Metal from Italy added at 11:55
Angel Dust (Ita) Heavy Metal from Italy added at 11:36
Arlem Traditional Heavy Metal from Italy added at 11:36
Another D.K. Thrash Metal from Italy added at 11:35
Alverman Traditional Heavy Metal from Italy added at 11:34
Angelkillers Heavy Metal from Italy
Wart Hog Traditional Metal from Italy added at 16:20
S.O.S. (Ita) Heavy Metal from Italy added at 06:14
Urban Fight Heavy Metal from Italy added at 05:26
S.H.A.D.E. Heavy Metal from Italy added at 05:24





The Main Problem with these bands just one source :

http://www.strillostrano.com/bands/metal80/atoz.htm

And There's no samples nothing more just Genre named.Also I checked all bands since they're subbmited back in 2007 and I think that 3 years time is quite enough to get some info about these bands (Demo Info/Tracklist/Photos/Line Ups),but as I see most of bands profiles (90%) contains info like : Released Demo And Thats it.Is that fair to leave all these bands in Metal-Archives?

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GraveWish
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 7:49 am
Posts: 950
Location: France
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:46 am 
 

Hello, the band Vinterkrig (Swe) should be removed since the demo never got released.
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Goatfangs
Wicker Mantis

Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:02 pm
Posts: 2210
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:16 pm 
 

GraveWish wrote:
Hello, the band Vinterkrig (Swe) should be removed since the demo never got released.


If it was never released how is it available on the internet?

A theoretical question, but since the demo is from 1997, I doubt it was distributed on a format that was not physical. Perhaps it wasn't released officially?
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ksevile
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:12 pm
Posts: 1390
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:21 pm 
 

Maybe released or leaked later without the band's permission?

Fan Myspace wrote:
It is time to leak what has been hidden.
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droneriot
RETIRED

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:17 pm
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Location: Germany
PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:06 pm 
 

Another candidate for insignificant name change merging:

Purtenance: http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=9283

...and their earlier name...

Purtenance Avulsion: http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=83689
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TheGrimWombat
Nelson Wannabe

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:06 am
Posts: 1414
PostPosted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 6:57 am 
 

Insignificant name change merging:

Chris Falco's Demon Angels
http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=14779

Demon Angels
http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=78019
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droneriot
RETIRED

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Location: Germany
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:30 am 
 

Speckmann: http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=57298

Does not have any material of its own, both releases are compilations of bands Speckmann played in.
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BlackFlag
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 2:30 pm
Posts: 220
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:56 am 
 

I think these two pages should be merged as one:
http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=75099
http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=11342

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ralfman
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 12:45 pm
Posts: 908
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:02 am 
 

Dysphoric

Humm... 7 copies?! shouldn't it have at least 10?
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todesengel_hell
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:21 pm
Posts: 188
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:23 pm 
 

I think these two pages should be merged

Black Dawn
http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=3520

The True Black Dawn
http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=3411
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Last edited by todesengel_hell on Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Halloween
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 10:23 am
Posts: 540
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:23 pm 
 

Should these two bands be merged?

Deep Sorrow:
http://metal-archives.com/band.php?id=97799

To Deeper Sorrow:
http://metal-archives.com/band.php?id=94226

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GraveWish
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 7:49 am
Posts: 950
Location: France
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:48 pm 
 

Goatfangs wrote:
GraveWish wrote:
Hello, the band Vinterkrig (Swe) should be removed since the demo never got released.


If it was never released how is it available on the internet?

A theoretical question, but since the demo is from 1997, I doubt it was distributed on a format that was not physical. Perhaps it wasn't released officially?


It's available for download on the internet the band split-up and never released the demo this is also mentioned on the fans myspace page
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dust666
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:46 pm
Posts: 683
Location: Romania
PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:29 am 
 

After the merging of Rhapsody and Rhapsody of fire, shouldn't these be merged?

Dalriada:
http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=91866

Echo of Dalriada:
http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=24513

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2ndsicness
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:26 am
Posts: 253
Location: Denmark
PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:48 pm 
 

ralfman wrote:
Dysphoric

Humm... 7 copies?! shouldn't it have at least 10?


There are 10 copies, hand-numbered.

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Oblarg
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:59 pm
Posts: 2371
Location: The second sea
PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 3:50 pm 
 

C.P.R. has several problems. Firstly, they're listed as jazz/rock/fusion, which isn't exactly metal.

A worse problem, however, is that C.P.R. is not a band, per se - it's simply the name under which Randy Coven released his third solo album (to quote his myspace, "Randy recorded two more solo CDs 'Sammy Says Ouch' and 'C.P.R'"). So, if C.P.R. is to stay, it really should be renamed Randy Coven and his other solo albums should be added (Funk Me Tender, Sammy Says Ouch, Witch Way), which are pretty much stylistically identical.

Edit: Forgot the link. http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=3876

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todesengel_hell
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:21 pm
Posts: 188
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:16 pm 
 

Another good merging candidate

Symphony (Pol)
http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=113327
Symphony of Despair
http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=71746
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TheGrimWombat
Nelson Wannabe

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:06 am
Posts: 1414
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:32 am 
 

http://www.myspace.com/ophelia-official

Ophelia (Kor): http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=3540310902

Really? Come on...they don't even call themselves metal. They might be signed to Jusin Productions, but that doesn't qualify them.
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Drowned
Tenebrous Apparition

Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:57 pm
Posts: 751
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:20 am 
 

While the sample(s) up on MySpace are borderline, the user who made the submission provided downloads of full songs and after listening to them I decided to accept the band. Most of the stuff I heard sounded like old Theater of Tragedy.

If you've listened to the entire album and still don't believe that they belong here, perhaps you could share it (by way of report or post it here) and we will reevaluate it.

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Witcher
Metal freak

Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 am
Posts: 6077
Location: Czech Republic
PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:20 pm 
 

http://www.nmmusic.com/history/durtieblonde/index.html
Deleted Durtie Blonde/Queen Bitch - glam, even self-defined as "not heavy metal"

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TheGrimWombat
Nelson Wannabe

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:06 am
Posts: 1414
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:53 am 
 

Drowned wrote:
While the sample(s) up on MySpace are borderline, the user who made the submission provided downloads of full songs and after listening to them I decided to accept the band. Most of the stuff I heard sounded like old Theater of Tragedy.

If you've listened to the entire album and still don't believe that they belong here, perhaps you could share it (by way of report or post it here) and we will reevaluate it.


http://darkport.blogspot.com/2010/07/op ... ntasy.html Still don't think it's predominantly metal.
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Drowned
Tenebrous Apparition

Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:57 pm
Posts: 751
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:24 am 
 

Thanks for the link. I've listened to the whole album now and I'm inclined to agree with you. Too many of the songs are acoustic/darkwave/filler.

Ophelia (Kor) deleted.

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TheGrimWombat
Nelson Wannabe

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:06 am
Posts: 1414
PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:33 pm 
 

Yeah, sorry if my tone when I made my complaint was a bit harsh, I was just really surprised to see them here.

Thanks! Good work.
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BlackMetalGirl
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2003 9:10 am
Posts: 213
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:11 am 
 

Hi Drowned,

I think (but I'm not sure) that this band you've added: http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=3540310851 it is, actually, Ethereal, the pre-Lacuna Coil band, just mispelled. The location (Milan), the genre and the year of their only release let me think so!!!

Bye,
Erika

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Drowned
Tenebrous Apparition

Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:57 pm
Posts: 751
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:02 pm 
 

Hmm, you may be correct, Erika. I got the info from here:

http://web.archive.org/web/200104182158 ... Metal.html

Do you know if the Ethereal promo was actually available to the public? According to an early archived biography from Lacuna Coil's official site, the tape was only sent out to labels in Europe. If that's the case then I will remove the band.

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kimiwind
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:45 am
Posts: 482
Location: Japan
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:51 pm 
 

http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=3540311109
The band should be removed, release date until 12 August.
Both Myspace and label confirm that.
http://www.violentjourneyrecords.com/

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BlackMetalGirl
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2003 9:10 am
Posts: 213
Location: Italy
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:22 pm 
 

Drowned wrote:
Hmm, you may be correct, Erika. I got the info from here:

http://web.archive.org/web/200104182158 ... Metal.html

Do you know if the Ethereal promo was actually available to the public? According to an early archived biography from Lacuna Coil's official site, the tape was only sent out to labels in Europe. If that's the case then I will remove the band.


Hi, honestly I don't know if their demo released as Ethereal was distributed to the public, but honestly their official biography says the this Promo was ALSO sent to many labels, not ONLY sent to many labels. In my opinion is a slighy but important difference!

Bye!!!

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Drowned
Tenebrous Apparition

Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:57 pm
Posts: 751
PostPosted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:05 pm 
 

I've removed Etereal. The promo will remain on Lacuna Coil's page for now.

Thanks for your help.

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