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Evenfiel
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 9:50 am
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Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 5:05 pm 
 

Post updated for v2.

List of bands with alternate names:
http://v2.metal-archives.com/todo/alt-spelling

After years of misuse of the "Alternate spelling" field, we ended up with a lot of useless information that only clutters the search results. Due to the huge work to clean that up, I'm starting a task force to clean that field. If you're already a veteran and feel like helping out, just join in.

About the "Alternate spelling" field (Or AS):

01. What it is?
It's a hidden field used only to refine your search results.

02. What it isn't?
A field to add the band's previous and future names.

03. What should I add?
Just think "Will this information help someone to find this band more easily?". If your answer is yes, then you should add it. Please keep on reading to understand how exactly the AS field can help you to find a band.

04. Examples on how it should be used:
-The band Stormtroopers of Death is commonly known as S.O.D, so some people might search for S.O.D. instead of the band's official name. Add S.O.D. as an AS.

-The band D.R.I. is also known as Dirty Rotten Imbeciles, so you should add it as an AS.

-Band X just changed their name to Y, but they still didn't release anything under the new name, hence the band Y don't have a MA page. Y can be added as an AS until they have their own page.

04. Examples of what I shouldn't do:
-The band Slayer began as Dragonslayer, but never recorded under that name. That sort of information should be in the additional notes, not as an AS, because nobody who's searching for a band called Dragonslayer is looking for Slayer, and vice-versa.

-After the band Death Angel broke up, some members recorded under the name The Organization, while others under Swarm. Adding both names as an AS for Death Angel will not help me to find any of those bands, hence I should not do it. Furthermore, I should not add Death Angel as an AS of either The Organization or Swarm.

05. What about accents?
-They don't make any difference.

-I can find the band Motörhead without using the umlaut. Likewise, can also find the band Genocídio without using the acute accent. In both cases, I don't need to add anything as an AS.

06. What about lower and upper cases?
They don't make any difference.

07. What about bands with a dot (.) in their name?
-This is where it gets tricky. If the band name already contains periods, it is not necessary to add the version without periods in the AS field, because during the indexing, both the versions (with periods, and with periods stripped out) of the name will be indexed. However, the opposite is not true: if the band name does NOT have periods in the name, but could be potentially searched for with periods, the version with periods should be added.

Examples:
- I can find D.R.I if I search for DRI, because "D.R.I." is what is entered in the actual band name field. So there is no need to enter "DRI" in the AS field.
- However, I cannot find RDX if I search for R.D.X.. Therefore, I should enter "R.D.X." in the AS field, because it's not unreasonable that someone would search for "R.D.X.".
- I can find the band A.Death.Experience by searching for "A Death Experience" or "adeathexperience". I can also find the band ...and Here I Lie by just searching for and Here I Lie. No AS needed here.
- For a case like Stormtroopers of Death, if I enter "S.O.D." in the AS, I will be able to find the band by searching both SOD and S.O.D., so I don't need to enter the two versions of the acronym. However, if I only enter "SOD", searching for S.O.D. will not return any match. So when entering an acronym, I should always enter the version of the acronym that contains periods.

08. What about bands with apostrophes?
-You should add the version with or without an apostrophe as an AS.
-I can't find Autumn's End by searching for Autumns End unless I enter "Autumns End" as AS. Likewise, I cannot find Sanitys Dawn by searching for Sanity's Dawn unless "Sanity's Dawn" has been entered.

09. What about American vs International English for band names that might be entered differently?

-You can add it as an AS. Foe example, Demonise for Demonize and The Organisation for The Organization.

10. What about all those bands with acronyms as an AS?
Most of them are useless and should be removed. While it's true that some bands, especially more famous ones like Children of Bodom, Cradle of Filth and Stormtroopers of Death, are also known by an acronym, like CoB, CoF or SOD, that is not the case with the majority of bands that have composed names.

As a rule of thumb, unless you are sure that a band is known by an acronym, particularly when spoken out loud (nobody ever says "did you hear the latest cee-oh-eff [CoF]?", but they might say, "did you hear the latest ess-oh-dee [SoD]?"), you can remove it if the band does not use an acronym in their logo.


Last edited by Evenfiel on Tue May 08, 2012 10:05 pm, edited 9 times in total.
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EntilZha
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Joined: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:22 pm
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 6:23 pm 
 

I've already removed the ones for German bands that have a former name in them a while ago, never got around to doing it for other countries. I'm doing it by country because in the advanced search you can't search for the "changed name" status by itself, only if you combine it with a second search criterium.
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ralfman
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Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 12:45 pm
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 6:27 pm 
 

Humm... interesting, i´ve already came up with some of those situations before but didn't pay much attention.

I guess i'll keep an eye for that field on future updates.
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Evenfiel
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 9:50 am
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 6:37 pm 
 

Just search for "a" and you'll have 52k bands as a result. At least 1/5 of them have something in the ANS field.

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EntilZha
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 6:42 pm 
 

Good idea. Time for some free points.
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kimiwind
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Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:45 am
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Location: Japan
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 6:46 pm 
 

Very interesting.
Thanks for clarifying this issue.
I have some bands in mind, ill fix them up!

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Halloween
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 10:23 am
Posts: 532
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 7:02 pm 
 

Shouldn't it be noted to check if the band is like Rhapsody/Rhapsody of Fire before deleting?

And if the name in the field isn't in the additional notes to check if it is a former name on the band's website/myspace/whatever before deleting and adding it to the additional information it if it is?


Last edited by Halloween on Tue May 18, 2010 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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EntilZha
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 7:06 pm 
 

I always look before I delete anything.
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Halloween
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 7:08 pm 
 

I was meaning it to the lazy people just out for points (I haven't seen any yet, just trying to foresee issues).

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ksevile
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Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 11:12 pm
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 7:23 pm 
 

It's OK to remove translations of band names, correct? I haven't done any yet, just to be on the safe side.

Example: http://metal-archives.com/band.php?id=6941

See the ANS field.
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kimiwind
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Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:45 am
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 7:36 pm 
 

ksevile wrote:
It's OK to remove translations of band names, correct? I haven't done any yet, just to be on the safe side.

Example: http://metal-archives.com/band.php?id=6941

See the ANS field.

I believe it must be deleted. I think the translation of the foreigen names must be only on additional notes.
In the other hand it might even confuse, if another band got the same translated name "for exp".

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Evenfiel
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 9:50 am
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 4:21 am 
 

ksevile wrote:
It's OK to remove translations of band names, correct? I haven't done any yet, just to be on the safe side.

Example: http://metal-archives.com/band.php?id=6941

See the ANS field.

Yes, you can delete any translations and add them to the additional notes.

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destruccion
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Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:55 pm
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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 10:42 am 
 

About bands with no roman alphabet names, i.e. Russian, Chinese, etc bands, is it valid to fill this field with their original language?
I have done it before with some Chinese and Taiwanese bands, specially because people from this countries sometimes doesn't even know the english name of the bands, so they wouldn't search for Chthonic, but for 閃靈, and so on.

Is it valid to add the band's name in the band's original language in the ANS field?

This is about an specific band: if all the Russian bands have their names in roman alphabet, why Kursk (from Finland) is still called Kypck?

Thanks

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Fulgurius
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Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:51 am
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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 10:59 am 
 

destruccion wrote:
This is about an specific band: if all the Russian bands have their names in roman alphabet, why Kursk (from Finland) is still called Kypck?

They write their name as KYPCK (with latin characters), and not Курск or Kursk:
http://kypck-doom.com/

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Evenfiel
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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 4:31 pm 
 

destruccion wrote:
About bands with no roman alphabet names, i.e. Russian, Chinese, etc bands, is it valid to fill this field with their original language?
I have done it before with some Chinese and Taiwanese bands, specially because people from this countries sometimes doesn't even know the english name of the bands, so they wouldn't search for Chthonic, but for 閃靈, and so on.

Is it valid to add the band's name in the band's original language in the ANS field?

Sure, you can do that.

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destruccion
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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2010 11:26 pm 
 

Thanks to both for your reply

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todesengel_hell
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:17 pm 
 

What about proper spellings of purposely misspelled band names?
ex: Kataklysm as Catalclysm, White Wizzard as White Wizard, Kult ov Azazel as Cult of Azazel, etc.

Or the "u instead of v" spellings of "kvlt" bandnames?
ex: Kvntvr as Kuntur, Panzerkvlt as Panzerkult, etc.
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Evenfiel
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 7:08 am 
 

I'd say no for both cases.

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todesengel_hell
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Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:21 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 6:24 pm 
 

Evenfiel wrote:
I'd say no for both cases.


Thank you.

I'd like to also note a shortcoming of the MA search function for other people planning on helping to clean up ANS fields. Due to the way the search function was programmed, certain bands whose logos look like this will have to have an ANS added while other won't.

In cases such as Job for a Cowboy where the logo appears to have no spaces, but the band is listed on MA with spaces in between each word, an ANS with no spaces will have to be added.
examples:
Job for a Cowboy ANS: Jobforacowboy
Broken Glazz ANS: Brokenglazz
Gore Fagor ANS: GoreFagor

However, bands whose name already have no spaces such as Angelcorpse or 13Rituals will not have to have an ANS added to account for their name with spaces due to the fact that the search function returns results for a query with or without any spaces that the user initially typed into the search field.
more examples:
Goreobscenity
DragonForce
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Evenfiel
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 7:49 pm 
 

Don't spend your energy adding those alternative names. I'll check if the search can be tweaked to return results in such cases.

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todesengel_hell
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Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 1:21 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 3:00 am 
 

Evenfiel wrote:
Don't spend your energy adding those alternative names. I'll check if the search can be tweaked to return results in such cases.


Okay, that would make efforts a lot easier.
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destruccion
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Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:55 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 3:02 am 
 

todesengel_hell wrote:
Evenfiel wrote:
Don't spend your energy adding those alternative names. I'll check if the search can be tweaked to return results in such cases.


Okay, that would make efforts a lot easier.

It's already working! cool! :thumbsup:

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todesengel_hell
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:16 pm 
 

destruccion wrote:
todesengel_hell wrote:
Evenfiel wrote:
Don't spend your energy adding those alternative names. I'll check if the search can be tweaked to return results in such cases.


Okay, that would make efforts a lot easier.

It's already working! cool! :thumbsup:


Are you sure you are trying the right thing? I just tried searching "miseryindex" and got no results. It doesn't seem to have been changed at all yet.
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destruccion
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 12:11 am 
 

todesengel_hell wrote:
destruccion wrote:
todesengel_hell wrote:
Evenfiel wrote:
Don't spend your energy adding those alternative names. I'll check if the search can be tweaked to return results in such cases.


Okay, that would make efforts a lot easier.

It's already working! cool! :thumbsup:


Are you sure you are trying the right thing? I just tried searching "miseryindex" and got no results. It doesn't seem to have been changed at all yet.

Well, I thought your request was the other way around (like "Over Kill" for example) :uh oh:

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Evenfiel
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 12:24 pm 
 

Hellblazer's answer:
Quote:
As for the search stuff, I'd rather not add the possibility to search for stuff like "jobforacowboy" right now due to performance concerns. The search in V2 will run on a completely different system that should allow me to do that without problem. Ironically, the reverse (searching for "angel corpse" and finding Angelcorpse) might not work as well as on the current version though... but I'll see what I can do about it.

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todesengel_hell
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:23 pm 
 

Evenfiel wrote:
Hellblazer's answer:
Quote:
As for the search stuff, I'd rather not add the possibility to search for stuff like "jobforacowboy" right now due to performance concerns. The search in V2 will run on a completely different system that should allow me to do that without problem. Ironically, the reverse (searching for "angel corpse" and finding Angelcorpse) might not work as well as on the current version though... but I'll see what I can do about it.


Does this mean that I should remove any "compressed" names from ANS fields?
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Evenfiel
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:30 pm 
 

If you want to, though I wouldn't consider it top priority.

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todesengel_hell
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:37 pm 
 

Would it be possible to ask Hellblazer to compile a list of all bands with something in their ANS fields if it isn't too much of a bother?
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todesengel_hell
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:28 pm 
 

In the unique case of A Canorous Quintet, is the band's name considered an insignificant name/spelling change from their previous name A Canorous Quartet similar to the case of Rhapsody and Rhapsody of Fire, or is this considered a completely separate incarnation which would have its own page if they made any releases under their original name. It is a somewhat significant choice as there were members that left the band previous to their name change to A Canorous Quintet. It also decides whether or not the original name is listed in the ANS field.

P.S. I guess I'll take that as a no to my previous request. :lol:
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OzzyApu
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:39 pm 
 

They were named A Canorous Quartet before? Might want to put that in the additional notes, as I've never heard that.
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todesengel_hell
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:30 pm 
 

OzzyApu wrote:
They were named A Canorous Quartet before? Might want to put that in the additional notes, as I've never heard that.


http://www.myspace.com/canorousquintet

yep. first line in the bio
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OzzyApu
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:35 pm 
 

Huh, never noticed that before - even after reviewing three of their releases; or maybe I forgot, whatever.

Anyway, glad that you put it in their MA page bios (I was too lazy to wait for the confirmation / look myself).
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Evenfiel
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:20 pm 
 

Thye have never released anything under that name, so it obviously shouldn't have its own page.

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OzzyApu
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:57 pm 
 

I know that, I just wanted it mention on that page regarding the band because it was necessary information that was never put there before.
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gomorro wrote:
Yesterday was the birthday of school pal and I met the chick of my sigh (I've talked about here before, the she-wolf I use to be inlove with)... Maaan she was using a mini-skirt too damn insane... Dude you could saw her entire soul every time she sit...

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todesengel_hell
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:31 am 
 

Evenfiel wrote:
Thye have never released anything under that name, so it obviously shouldn't have its own page.


No, no. That part was evident to me. The part that I was asking about was whether it should be considered an insignificant name change, therefore all band members from both names would be listed and the ANS field would have "A Canorous Quartet" in it; or is that name considered a completely separate band (which would have its own page if material had been released under the name) and the name would be merely listed in the additional notes without the pre-Quintet band members listed?
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todesengel_hell
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:46 pm 
 

Gate of Darkness / Gate from Darkness

insignificant name change or separate band page needed?

http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=44469
http://www.metal-archives.com/release.php?id=90049
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OzzyApu
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:57 pm 
 

That's a pretty insignificant change. Rhapsody of Fire was more significant, but even that was still merged with Rhapsody for one page.
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todesengel_hell
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:23 pm 
 

OzzyApu wrote:
That's a pretty insignificant change. Rhapsody of Fire was more significant, but even that was still merged with Rhapsody for one page.


That was the way I was looking at it too so I'm leaving Gate from Darkness in its ANS field. I'm guessing that the same goes for A Canorous Quintet/Quartet, so I've modified the ANS and former members fields to refect this.
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Evenfiel
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:19 am 
 

todesengel_hell wrote:
OzzyApu wrote:
That's a pretty insignificant change. Rhapsody of Fire was more significant, but even that was still merged with Rhapsody for one page.


That was the way I was looking at it too so I'm leaving Gate from Darkness in its ANS field. I'm guessing that the same goes for A Canorous Quintet/Quartet, so I've modified the ANS and former members fields to refect this.

Why exactly do you want to add A Canorous Quartet as an ANS? They have never released anything under that name.

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todesengel_hell
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:00 pm 
 

Evenfiel wrote:
Why exactly do you want to add A Canorous Quartet as an ANS? They have never released anything under that name.


Merely for consistency. I have been putting the alternate/former name of bands with an insignificant name change (ex: Krimpartûrr Bürzum'Shi-Hai to Krimparturr) in the ANS field just because they seem to be relevant. I understand that this is somewhat of a special case due to the fact that the band never released anything under this name. There were however a couple members that left the band before they changed their name. It really does not matter to me if the name is in the ANS for them or not. I was moreso trying to ask for future reference.
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