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ProjectileZombies
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:05 am
Posts: 30
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 9:39 pm 
 

If I had to choose one album, the one black album superior to all others I have heard, it would be Ulver's Nattens Madrigal. This is so because of the riffs, the harmonies, the absurdly fast drumming that doesn't get shown off because it's drowned in the sickest black metal guitar tone ever. The bass, playing a bass part of it's own instead of following the guitars completely, the structure of the music being intelligent, of being incredibly hateful, beautiful and unique. It is the best black album in my eyes.

Of course, I havn't heard every black metal album. So I wanted to ask all of you if you like Nattens Madrigal like I do, but have heard something that tops it. It's never been topped for me, so if anyone has something better, I wanna know.

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BloodandDope
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 10:07 pm 
 

1. No

2. Every black metal band I like
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ProjectileZombies
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:05 am
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 10:14 pm 
 

I fail to see how it isn't obvious. It is such a captivating and brilliant black metal album. And I havn't heard a black metal band use riffs so beautiful and perfect ever before. At least actually recommend an album you think out does it.

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Geshy
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 10:21 pm 
 

Before this post gets locked, I just wanna say, Dimmu Borgir obviously isn't that great but Vredesbyrd is a beautiful song.
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BloodandDope
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 10:22 pm 
 

ProjectileZombies wrote:
I fail to see how it isn't obvious. It is such a captivating and brilliant black metal album. And I havn't heard a black metal band use riffs so beautiful and perfect ever before. At least actually recommend an album you think out does it.



Deathcrush
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Visionary
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Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 3:57 pm
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 10:22 pm 
 

ProjectileZombies wrote:
I fail to see how it isn't obvious. It is such a captivating and brilliant black metal album. And I havn't heard a black metal band use riffs so beautiful and perfect ever before. At least actually recommend an album you think out does it.


You expect everyone who likes black metal to have the same taste as you?

If you are looking for recommendations then I suggest you use that forum and also to ask for something similar to a particular sound, instead of just asking something general, like 'what is the best black metal album?'
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taleskiss on Kiss wrote:
They influenced MOST of the metal bands of our days, and they are not part of this site? This is unacceptable!!!
I would like to know why is that???
Because they are not considered metal? This is not fare!!!

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OlioTheSmall
Handsome (marsupial) Beast

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 10:26 pm 
 

I've been getting into Nattens Madrigal a bit, as of late. It is indeed a fine album. There is a brilliant balance between the raw aspects of the music and the beautiful ones.

If you are looking to discuss classic black metal releases, then the best bm album, in my eyes, is Mayhem's De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas. That album is so dark and it emits such a potent sense of evil; not to mention it's grand gothic feel. It's a very clean and clear album, unlike much classic black metal, but this clarity serves to focus the album's intense darkness. Atilla does a great job on vocals, providing the album with much of it's grand feel. Every riff is top notch and Hellhammer drums with monstrous endurance. There are very good reasons for why that album is considered classic.

Although, if you're looking for recommendations, you asking in the wrong area of the forum and going about it in the wrong way. You should request a specific sound (perhaps you should ask for albums that sound like Nattens Madrigal). What you've asked for is completely subjective and you have probably already heard of most of the albums that will get mentioned in this thread.

Edit: Yeah, what Visionary said.
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ProjectileZombies
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 7:05 am
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 10:31 pm 
 

Ah, ok then. I'm not really asking for stuff that sounds like it, just albums people think are even better, so I thought this forum would do.

Deathcrush, in my opinion, is pretty shit. Bad drum intro thing, very simply riffing and musicianship, not very outstanding drumming, band run time, and boring to me.

De Mysteriis, very good. I enjoy much about that album. To me, the music is not as complex and expressionist as Nattens Madrigal.

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CrushedRevelation
Devil's right hand

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:47 am
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 10:33 pm 
 

I'm going to go out on a limb and say you haven't heard a lot of Black Metal then? Furthermore, I'm personally not looking for beauty in my Black Metal. I do however like that album, but even before (and indeed after) that albums' release there were (much) better around.

Under A Funeral Moon for example, is an album I would put far above Nattens Madrigal, for it's cold, hateful atmosphere, sharp, yet obscure lyrics and brilliant variation within song structures while still giving meaningful nods to the inspirators of this masterpiece.
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ProjectileZombies
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 10:40 pm 
 

Under a Funeral Moon works on a much lower level of musical integrity when compared to Ulver's Nattens Madrigal. Fenriz and Nocturno really lack the mind of creators, they're confined more of minds of old school minimilism and traditionalism. Performing their favorite trend.

I've listened to a lot of black metal, by the way.

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BloodandDope
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Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:50 pm
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 10:48 pm 
 

ProjectileZombies wrote:
Deathcrush, in my opinion, is pretty shit. Bad drum intro thing, very simply riffing and musicianship, not very outstanding drumming, band run time, and boring to me.



Then you are neither gr1m nor necro. Be gone with you.
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Under_Starmere
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 11:05 pm 
 

Nattens Madrigal is a great piece of work; it's got a wonderful balance of the bestial to the noble, and the melodic and harmonic structures are fantastically composed. Simple but incredibly effective, with a special "legendary" feel to it, to my ears.

Try looking into Taake's Nattestid Ser Porten Vid. It's got a similar feel to it, but with extra complexity, a bit more moonlit darkness, and quite a few more twists in style. Great stuff.

Then for something entirely different, there's always Blut Aus Nord's Memoria Vetusta I. A total masterpiece of vision, riffcraft, atmosphere, and epic yet deathly beauty. If anyone has anything to top THIS...

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jugchord07
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Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:58 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 11:11 pm 
 

ProjectileZombies wrote:
If I had to choose one album, the one black album superior to all others I have heard, it would be Ulver's Nattens Madrigal. This is so because of the riffs, the harmonies, the absurdly fast drumming that doesn't get shown off because it's drowned in the sickest black metal guitar tone ever. The bass, playing a bass part of it's own instead of following the guitars completely, the structure of the music being intelligent, of being incredibly hateful, beautiful and unique. It is the best black album in my eyes.

Of course, I havn't heard every black metal album. So I wanted to ask all of you if you like Nattens Madrigal like I do, but have heard something that tops it. It's never been topped for me, so if anyone has something better, I wanna know.


It's my favorite black metal record as well! Most people will disagree though, I've never found anyone else that feels the same way about that album that I do.

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CrushedRevelation
Devil's right hand

Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:47 am
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 11:15 pm 
 

ProjectileZombies wrote:
Under a Funeral Moon works on a much lower level of musical integrity when compared to Ulver's Nattens Madrigal. Fenriz and Nocturno really lack the mind of creators, they're confined more of minds of old school minimilism and traditionalism. Performing their favorite trend.



:lol::lol::lol:

Opinions are like assholes as they say, everyone has one. All well and good, but again it's only your opinion, oh and incidently, do you think it a coincidence that Nattens Madrigal and Trasilvanian Hunger are of VERY similar aesthetics? Ulver may have out done them with the melodic undertones, but the similarities remain. Lack the mind of creators eh....that's a new one.

ProjectileZombies wrote:
I've listened to a lot of black metal, by the way.


And yet you are still struggling to find something to top this? With an opinion like yours, it will be very hard for you to see otherwise though...

:lol:
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Nolan_B
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 11:16 pm 
 

Saying that Nattens Madrigal is better than Pure Holocaust, De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas, Hvis Lyset Tar Oss, In the Nightside Eclipse, Thousand Swords, Far Away from the Sun, and Vikingligr Veldi is absurd. In fact, Absurd's demos are better than that overrated pile.


Last edited by Nolan_B on Tue May 18, 2010 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Visionary
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 11:16 pm 
 

Under_Starmere I only have heard Ultima Thule from Blut Aus Nord before A Mystical Beast of Rebellion and later material and it is my favorite black metal album. Very otherwordly with a cold, extremely desolate and oddly sad vibe to it that gives it a feeling of beauty. I often listen to it and close my eyes and forget everything around me as the atmosphere is so dense and engaging.

How does Memoria Vetestuta I compare as I have been meaning to check it out?
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taleskiss on Kiss wrote:
They influenced MOST of the metal bands of our days, and they are not part of this site? This is unacceptable!!!
I would like to know why is that???
Because they are not considered metal? This is not fare!!!

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Under_Starmere
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 11:37 pm 
 

Visionary wrote:
Under_Starmere I only have heard Ultima Thule from Blut Aus Nord before A Mystical Beast of Rebellion and later material and it is my favorite black metal album. Very otherwordly with a cold, extremely desolate and oddly sad vibe to it that gives it a feeling of beauty. I often listen to it and close my eyes and forget everything around me as the atmosphere is so dense and engaging.

How does Memoria Vetestuta I compare as I have been meaning to check it out?


I don't think disliking it would even be possible, if you enjoy Ultima Thulée. Ultima Thulée is certainly a masterpiece and MVI arguably even moreso. They're aesthetically quite similar but very compositionally different.... So mostly you're looking at the exact same production style, but with compositions that are denser overall and absolutely packed with epic, vision-inducing riffs, with less emphasis on ambience generated from keyboards. While Ultima Thulée has a wandering, dreamlike, airy atmosphere, MVI feels more earth-bound, fiery...yet still captures that immaculate and otherworldly coldness than all the BAN material has in spades. It's a truly magical work, and one of the most inspiring pieces of art I've ever encountered. Plus you even get lyrics for it...a rare treat in Vindsval's catalogue. I give it my highest recommendation.

Make sure to check out The Eye and Children of Maani, if you haven't gotten around to that yet. Totally excellent additions to every man's Vindsval library.

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Visionary
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 11:53 pm 
 

Under_Starmere wrote:
Visionary wrote:
Under_Starmere I only have heard Ultima Thule from Blut Aus Nord before A Mystical Beast of Rebellion and later material and it is my favorite black metal album. Very otherwordly with a cold, extremely desolate and oddly sad vibe to it that gives it a feeling of beauty. I often listen to it and close my eyes and forget everything around me as the atmosphere is so dense and engaging.

How does Memoria Vetestuta I compare as I have been meaning to check it out?


I don't think disliking it would even be possible, if you enjoy Ultima Thulée. Ultima Thulée is certainly a masterpiece and MVI arguably even moreso. They're aesthetically quite similar but very compositionally different.... So mostly you're looking at the exact same production style, but with compositions that are denser overall and absolutely packed with epic, vision-inducing riffs, with less emphasis on ambience generated from keyboards. While Ultima Thulée has a wandering, dreamlike, airy atmosphere, MVI feels more earth-bound, fiery...yet still captures that immaculate and otherworldly coldness than all the BAN material has in spades. It's a truly magical work, and one of the most inspiring pieces of art I've ever encountered. Plus you even get lyrics for it...a rare treat in Vindsval's catalogue. I give it my highest recommendation.

Make sure to check out The Eye and Children of Maani, if you haven't gotten around to that yet. Totally excellent additions to every man's Vindsval library.


Thanks very much. I'm very intrigued to check this out now.
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taleskiss on Kiss wrote:
They influenced MOST of the metal bands of our days, and they are not part of this site? This is unacceptable!!!
I would like to know why is that???
Because they are not considered metal? This is not fare!!!

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Under_Starmere
Abhorrent Fish-Man

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:00 pm
Posts: 4130
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 11:56 pm 
 

Visionary wrote:
Under_Starmere wrote:
Visionary wrote:
Under_Starmere I only have heard Ultima Thule from Blut Aus Nord before A Mystical Beast of Rebellion and later material and it is my favorite black metal album. Very otherwordly with a cold, extremely desolate and oddly sad vibe to it that gives it a feeling of beauty. I often listen to it and close my eyes and forget everything around me as the atmosphere is so dense and engaging.

How does Memoria Vetestuta I compare as I have been meaning to check it out?


I don't think disliking it would even be possible, if you enjoy Ultima Thulée. Ultima Thulée is certainly a masterpiece and MVI arguably even moreso. They're aesthetically quite similar but very compositionally different.... So mostly you're looking at the exact same production style, but with compositions that are denser overall and absolutely packed with epic, vision-inducing riffs, with less emphasis on ambience generated from keyboards. While Ultima Thulée has a wandering, dreamlike, airy atmosphere, MVI feels more earth-bound, fiery...yet still captures that immaculate and otherworldly coldness than all the BAN material has in spades. It's a truly magical work, and one of the most inspiring pieces of art I've ever encountered. Plus you even get lyrics for it...a rare treat in Vindsval's catalogue. I give it my highest recommendation.

Make sure to check out The Eye and Children of Maani, if you haven't gotten around to that yet. Totally excellent additions to every man's Vindsval library.


Thanks very much. I'm very intrigued to check this out now.


You'll thank yourself later, trust me. Reading back over what I wrote, it doesn't even come close to describing how majestic that album is and how many emotions it holds.

Now I'm listening to Vlad; pretty good stuff even back then, hehe.

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Tormentor312
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 1:38 am 
 

chainsaw gutsfuck is the best song name ever, but deathcrush itself is more history than quality. although i love the title track and the aformentioned, its not the be all end all.

my fav BM album is probably pure holocaust, if there is one definitive album, itd probably be under the sign of the black mark.


also lol @ demon burger.
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pressingtoplead13
Metal newbie

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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 1:42 am 
 

I think Behexen is far and above the best black metal band. All of their releases are great in their own way, I personally prefer By the Blessing of Satan and From the Devil's Chalice to the rest of their work but every album is great, I even loved My Soul for His Glory which didn't seem to be as popular. By The Blessing of Satan is one nasty album, the buzzsaw guitar sound is just crushing, their songwriting is top notch, and the energy is raw and aggressive, in my eyes it's the closest thing to a perfect album. From the Devil's Chalice is like it's retarded sibling. The album is far more simple and has more of a trance like feel as it's far more repetitive ( think Transylvanian Hunger song structures). At first listen, with the over saturated sound and static in the background it sounds like one of the ugliest albums you'll hear but after a few listens you really start to see the beauty of it, the guitar has much more higher pitched melodies as opposed to the crushing sound brought forth by By The Blessing of Satan. After these two albums Ulver will be just an afterthought.

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gazeovice
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 2:03 am 
 

pressingtoplead13 wrote:
I think Behexen is far and above the best black metal band. All of their releases are great in their own way, I personally prefer By the Blessing of Satan and From the Devil's Chalice to the rest of their work but every album is great, I even loved My Soul for His Glory which didn't seem to be as popular. By The Blessing of Satan is one nasty album, the buzzsaw guitar sound is just crushing, their songwriting is top notch, and the energy is raw and aggressive, in my eyes it's the closest thing to a perfect album. From the Devil's Chalice is like it's retarded sibling. The album is far more simple and has more of a trance like feel as it's far more repetitive ( think Transylvanian Hunger song structures). At first listen, with the over saturated sound and static in the background it sounds like one of the ugliest albums you'll hear but after a few listens you really start to see the beauty of it, the guitar has much more higher pitched melodies as opposed to the crushing sound brought forth by By The Blessing of Satan. After these two albums Ulver will be just an afterthought.


Behexen is one of my favorite black metal bands, however, I would be hard pressed to find any black metal album that touches Transilvanian Hunger or De mysteriis dom Sathanas. I'm aware that these albums are widely cited; yet the atmosphere present on both albums is incredibly dark.. Everytime I hear the opening riffs of "Pagan fears" and "Skald ov satans sol", I cannot help but feel those droning riffs inch their way into my ears.
As for the Blut Aus Nord mentions I also agree, I can't find any real fault in Memoria Vestusa, and The Work which transforms god is another personal favorite album.

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Winterkald
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 3:36 am 
 

Darkthrone - A Blaze in the Northern Sky tops pretty much every BM album :) .
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Expedience
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 3:56 am 
 

Nolan_B wrote:
Saying that Nattens Madrigal is better than Pure Holocaust, De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas, Hvis Lyset Tar Oss, In the Nightside Eclipse, Thousand Swords, Far Away from the Sun, and Vikingligr Veldi is absurd. In fact, Absurd's demos are better than that overrated pile.


I would say any release by any of those bands whose albums you mentioned would top Nattens Madrigal. With the possible exception of later Enslaved. Just my humble opinion.

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t1337Dude
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 3:56 am 
 

I've always considered Ulver's Nattens Madrigal to be mediocre. Can't really come close to anything done by Bathory, Darkthrone, or Burzum.

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VRR
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 6:16 am 
 

Going on broader "aesthetic" appeal only, the closest BM to Nattens (whilst also being better, in my opinion...) are Dark Medieval Times and Fran Marder. They both balance/transistion from raw to melodic in a more creative way than the 'drag & drop' production job on Ulver's record. I still like Nattens Madrigal, but I get very bored listening to the whole thing in one go.

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Wilytank
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 8:37 am 
 

Let's go away from Norway for a second so I can bring up Sabbat. They stick with the first wave sound to ultimately prove that it still works. To me, they are the best black metal band.
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Abominatrix
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 9:03 am 
 

Yeah, that Ulver album is great and to be honest it's the only disc of theirs I still spin regularly.

Don't know if I would say the guitar tone is that great but it's certainly fitting and sounds good in the context of the album. I like the little ..very organic sounding noise interludes and some of the riffing in tracks like "WOlf and Devil" has a near-death metal quality to it. Nevertheless, the melodic quality of the album cannot be denied and I think many people who talk about it can't get past the guitar sound and blasting drums to hear what is really going on.

Edit: Might I suggest that, instead of making this thread into a boring "nooo, this is the best black metal album eeever" travesty, we just discuss this Ulver album here?
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Crypt666
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 9:12 am 
 

For me it was not good enough but I understand it appeals to people who need their music a little bit less strong and complicated. I'd pick an early Marduk, Bathory or Immortal record. Those were the greatest BM bands ever lived (shame they all sold out so hard).

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failsafeman
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 9:28 am 
 

Abominatrix wrote:
Edit: Might I suggest that, instead of making this thread into a boring "nooo, this is the best black metal album eeever" travesty, we just discuss this Ulver album here?

Agreed. I have changed the thread title.

Keep this civil, guys, don't get personal. This has been a pretty good discussion so far.
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Abominatrix
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 9:30 am 
 

Crypt666 wrote:
For me it was not good enough but I understand it appeals to people who need their music a little bit less strong and complicated. I'd pick an early Marduk, Bathory or Immortal record. Those were the greatest BM bands ever lived (shame they all sold out so hard).


What exactly do you mean by "strong and complicated"? Are we talking musicianship, emotional depth, song structures...I don't really see how that Ulver album loses out in any of those categories, though I'll certainly agree that Bathory released more worthwhile material, and those other two bands were quite good for a little while as well.
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Lord_Jotun
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 11:13 am 
 

Nolan_B wrote:
In fact, Absurd's demos are better than that overrated pile.


Now, now, let's not get carried away here ;)
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Catachthonian
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 12:14 pm 
 

Every single riff on "Nattens Madrigal" is perfect, as is everything else, thus making it a perfect album.

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Abominatrix
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 12:21 pm 
 

Catachthonian wrote:
Every single riff on "Nattens Madrigal" is perfect, as is everything else, thus making it a perfect album.


haha...you always manage to surprise me. I saw that you had made the last post in this thread and I fully expected to see you trash the hell out of the record. Now that I think on it though, I couldn't exactly say why this was the case. :lol:
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Catachthonian
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 12:31 pm 
 

Abominatrix wrote:
haha...you always manage to surprise me. I saw that you had made the last post in this thread and I fully expected to see you trash the hell out of the record. Now that I think on it though, I couldn't exactly say why this was the case. :lol:

Eh, the production makes it sound like a harsh noise/power electronics album at low volume, and considering I've been on a HN/PE wave since the summer/autumn of 2009...

Besides, I just love how the melodies are entwined with the sheer brutality and rawness of the sound and riffs.

P.S. Still, that comment of yours confused the hell out of me.

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Abominatrix
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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 12:37 pm 
 

Catachthonian wrote:
Abominatrix wrote:
haha...you always manage to surprise me. I saw that you had made the last post in this thread and I fully expected to see you trash the hell out of the record. Now that I think on it though, I couldn't exactly say why this was the case. :lol:

Eh, the production makes it sound like a harsh noise/power electronics album at low volume, and considering I've been on a HN/PE wave since the summer/autumn of 2009...

Besides, I just love how the melodies are entwined with the sheer brutality and rawness of the sound and riffs.

It sounds like a metal band playing with cheap amps to me, but I sort of get what you're saying, and certainly agree about the complex intertwining melodies and the rawness of the sound...there really aren't too many albums like that and I'm definitely glad the thing wasn't produced at Abyss Studios, which is where many Scandinavian bands of the time simply loved to go.

haha, no need for confusion...I just tried to anticipate your reaction to the thread and failed.
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Catachthonian
Metal freak

Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:12 am
Posts: 4663
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 12:54 pm 
 

Cheap amps? Not necessarily a bad thing. Instrument-wise, composition and songwriting matter more than equipment and production. Vocal-wise, it should be tolerable lest it mars the music beyond mending. *cough*Inquisition*cough*

I hardly ever listen to metal nowadays, anyway.

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kampfplatz666
Sturmbannführer Borat

Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:17 pm
Posts: 509
Location: Vatican City
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 1:03 pm 
 

Good album, maybe very good; but not THE best BM album out there (if exists just one alone).
A great conceptual work is there, exploring the theme of the wolf, so as musicianship (some difficult riffs here and there) and honest BM values as the nekro production and the well achieved dark atmosphere.
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Abominatrix
Harbinger of Metal

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:15 pm
Posts: 10120
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 1:10 pm 
 

Catachthonian wrote:
Cheap amps? Not necessarily a bad thing. Instrument-wise, composition and songwriting matter more than equipment and production. Vocal-wise, it should be tolerable lest it mars the music beyond mending. *cough*Inquisition*cough*


Of course I know it's not a bad thing...I was remarking on the way the album sounds...I've definitely heard many harsher sounding metal records; the guitar tone just reminds me of my friend's little Peavy and the drums are this sort of barely audible thunkathunkathunka...it's a cool effect but I"m not sure how much it sounds like power-electronics.
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To shoon that tread the lost aeons:
To the sound that bids you to die.

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failsafeman
Digital Dictator

Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:45 am
Posts: 9513
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 1:14 pm 
 

Catachthonian wrote:
I hardly ever listen to metal nowadays, anyway.

Fag.
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Seriously, why ban me??????? That topic had nothing wrong with it! Theres something wrong with you i can tell you! You're immoral banning of my account! Anyways, i'm creating my own metal arcives.

http://extrememetalencyclopedia.webs.com/

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