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Under_Starmere
Abhorrent Fish-Man

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:00 pm
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 9:13 pm 
 

While reading cyan_angel's review of Sear Bliss "Glory and Perdition," I came across this passage, which struck me as odd:

...as I disapprove the ‘Worship Satan’ type of metal, I equally despise the gratuitous violence and gore-drenched lyrics of the dreaded ‘unblack’ accident.

Unblack metal's not anything I've ever looked into (for possibly obvious reasons) but this seemed strange to me, so I looked into a few bands' lyrics and none of them seemed sadistic, or even close to it. Is there some sort of neo-Inquisitional/witch-skinning trend running through the unblack scene?

Kind of makes me curious to look into some unblack bands and see what they're like.

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absurder21
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 9:27 pm 
 

Mayhems had some early lyrics which were gore orientated but I always thought Unblack metal thinking was merely christian black metal.

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Under_Starmere
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 9:32 pm 
 

Right, it's not exactly what you'd expect. Which is sort of ironic, given Christian history. I'm also assuming that most unblack bands are of a more Protestant bent than Catholic, which only makes the gore connection even more out of place.


Last edited by Under_Starmere on Sat May 15, 2010 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Inkshooter
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:55 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 9:33 pm 
 

Yes, unblack metal is Christian black metal. Most of these bands use themes and lyrics from Revelations, which is EXTREMELY violent, gory, and sadistic. I'm guessing this guy just doesn't approve of violence in music, which is pretty much unavoidable in metal.

And if you're looking for good unblack stuff, try

Antestor (Kinda like Dissection, but more melodic)
Crimson Moonlight (Death/black, probably the best Christian band out there.)
Evroklidon (A more agressive Burzum-esque band)

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TheNiceNightmare
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Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 5:11 pm
Posts: 2992
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 9:33 pm 
 

Well, alot of "unblack" metal bands have lyrics that are essentially your typical "mutilate Jesus" lyrics where Jesus is replaced with Satan. "Crush the skull of the goat" and stuff like that.

Or something.
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gazeovice
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 9:36 pm 
 

Lyrically, the genre is a travesty, but if the band can steer away from their message and make decent music I really don't care.

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Under_Starmere
Abhorrent Fish-Man

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:00 pm
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 9:43 pm 
 

Inkshooter wrote:
Yes, unblack metal is Christian black metal. Most of these bands use themes and lyrics from Revelations, which is EXTREMELY violent, gory, and sadistic. I'm guessing this guy just doesn't approve of violence in music, which is pretty much unavoidable in metal.


Revelations, eh? Makes sense. ...I wonder how many thousands more years it'll take for people to actually stop referencing Revelations.

I guess I wasn't exactly aware Revelations was that full of sadistic gore, specifically, so much as just apocalyptic visionary crazytalk. So much to read, so little time.

TheNiceNightmare wrote:
Well, alot of "unblack" metal bands have lyrics that are essentially your typical "mutilate Jesus" lyrics where Jesus is replaced with Satan. "Crush the skull of the goat" and stuff like that.

Or something.


Ah, okay. Blasting the clarion horn for the New Worldwide Crusade from the bedroom studio. :)

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Under_Starmere
Abhorrent Fish-Man

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:00 pm
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 9:48 pm 
 

gazeovice wrote:
Lyrically, the genre is a travesty, but if the band can steer away from their message and make decent music I really don't care.


So... Christian instrumental metal. ...We're Christian, believe us. No, we're serious. Just listen to the double-bass, it's all triple-hits.

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Inkshooter
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:55 pm
Posts: 363
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 9:58 pm 
 

Under_Starmere wrote:
Inkshooter wrote:
Yes, unblack metal is Christian black metal. Most of these bands use themes and lyrics from Revelations, which is EXTREMELY violent, gory, and sadistic. I'm guessing this guy just doesn't approve of violence in music, which is pretty much unavoidable in metal.


Revelations, eh? Makes sense. ...I wonder how many thousands more years it'll take for people to actually stop referencing Revelations.

I guess I wasn't exactly aware Revelations was that full of sadistic gore, specifically, so much as just apocalyptic visionary crazytalk. So much to read, so little time.

TheNiceNightmare wrote:
Well, alot of "unblack" metal bands have lyrics that are essentially your typical "mutilate Jesus" lyrics where Jesus is replaced with Satan. "Crush the skull of the goat" and stuff like that.

Or something.


Ah, okay. Blasting the clarion horn for the New Worldwide Crusade from the bedroom studio. :)



Are you just flaming Christianity, or is there some meaningful point you're trying to get across?

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hells_unicorn
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Posts: 2253
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PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 10:44 pm 
 

Under_Starmere wrote:
Right, it's not exactly what you'd expect. Which is sort of ironic, given Christian history. I'm also assuming that most unblack bands are of a more Protestant bent than Catholic, which only makes the gore connection even more out of place.


Not necessarily. Look into the history of the "Siege of Munster", where both Lutheran and Catholic armies collaborated in destroying an theocratic government that was established by a bunch of really fanatical apocalyptic Anabaptists. Most of the magisterial reformers such as the Anglicans and the Reformed Presbyterians (Calvinists) were not pacifists, although they weren't big on the whole concept of crusading and invading other countries by force of arms in order to spread the gospels.

On-topic - Frost Like Ashes did a pretty violent song a few years back about an abortion doctor getting murdered, while also giving fairly graphic descriptions of a late term abortion with a table saw. Unblack Metal, in spite of its ideological disconnect with most metal listeners, does tend to have lyrics that fit the musical aesthetic.
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Thorr
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:01 pm
Posts: 267
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 12:37 am 
 

TheNiceNightmare wrote:
Well, alot of "unblack" metal bands have lyrics that are essentially your typical "mutilate Jesus" lyrics where Jesus is replaced with Satan. "Crush the skull of the goat" and stuff like that.

Or something.


Yeah, that's Horde. Another band that has similar lyrics would be Frost Like Ashes.

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Foxx
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Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:59 am
Posts: 856
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 12:54 am 
 

Under_Starmere wrote:
Unblack metal's not anything I've ever looked into (for possibly obvious reasons) but this seemed strange to me, so I looked into a few bands' lyrics and none of them seemed sadistic, or even close to it. Is there some sort of neo-Inquisitional/witch-skinning trend running through the unblack scene?

Kind of makes me curious to look into some unblack bands and see what they're like.


As someone who has an odd fascination with stuff like this, I've noticed that a lot of unblack bands nowadays draw influence from SDBM and for that reason a lot of them aren't going to have gratuitous gore and violence in their lyrics. Bands like Erasmus and Horrific Majesty seem to more explore themes like disconnect from God, spirituality and suicide rather than straightforward anti-Satanism. I think even the earlier bands like Azbuk and Horde leant more towards "put on the armour of God and defeat evil" style lyrics than gore and sadism, though Horde did have a few songs that were atypically gory (they read more like Mortification lyrics though).

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Under_Starmere
Abhorrent Fish-Man

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 5:00 pm
Posts: 4419
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 12:54 am 
 

Inkshooter wrote:
Are you just flaming Christianity, or is there some meaningful point you're trying to get across?


Was I flaming Christianity?

Edit: In answer to your question, no I wasn't, and no, there isn't. Just collecting information here and replying to some feedback.

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Whackooyzero
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 1:02 am 
 

I personally think it's ridiculous to think singing about satan is okay but singing about god isn't and vice versa. For me it's about the music. As to whether it's violent or not, well it can be but I haven't personally come across that much.
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Geshy
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 1:39 am 
 

When Trouble came out, their record label called them "white metal" since they had a Christian theme but played heavy dark music.

Satan is a Christian character. As far as I'm concerned singing about Satan qualifies as Christian music. Just, perverse Christian music.
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AngelofDeath777
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:16 pm
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 3:05 am 
 

There are Unblack bands who are simply an inversion of the satanic black metal scene. Also, the bible has plenty of violence in it to work off of. Old Testament and Revelations especially. Besides which, violence and death are a part of life, as we all know. So I don't know why it would be out of place for a Christian band to focus on those aspects of our existence. They would be more misguided if they completely avoided the subject. IMO.

I played in an Unblack band, and was the main lyricist. and I did my best to stay away from lyrics like those, and focus more on my view of the world through a christian perspective. I didn't want to be a "Crush Satan" band, nor did I just want to be a Blackened church worship band. Many of those bands tend to be generic and thrive off of the built in audience.

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circleofdestruction
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 3:07 am 
 

Geshy wrote:
Satan is a Christian character. As far as I'm concerned singing about Satan qualifies as Christian music. Just, perverse Christian music.

Erm, no, not necessarily. Singing about Orcs or dragons doesn't mean you actually worship orcs or dragons or hobbits, or believe in them at all. Likewise, having lyrics that reference Satan doesn't make you a devil-worshipper, or mean that you believe in god or the devil.

On the other hand, it is pretty safe to assume people who make unblack metal are actually christians.
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Winterkald
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 6:13 am 
 

I'm pretty sure that unblack metal has nothing to do with black metal whatsoever and it sure as hell has no place in the scene. I guess Slechtvalk is another good exemple of an 'unblack metal band'. Do NOT support!!!
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Whackooyzero
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 6:27 am 
 

Winterkald wrote:
I'm pretty sure that unblack metal has nothing to do with black metal whatsoever and it sure as hell has no place in the scene. I guess Slechtvalk is another good exemple of an 'unblack metal band'. Do NOT support!!!


And why should we not support them? Because it has nothing to do with black metal? Because it has christian lyrics?
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Winterkald
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 7:02 am 
 

Whackooyzero wrote:

Because it has christian lyrics?


Because of this ;) .
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Witcher
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 7:13 am 
 

Winterkald wrote:
Whackooyzero wrote:

Because it has christian lyrics?


Because of this ;) .


Indeed, black metal is the only metal genre, that is defined also by the lyrics.

Besides of that, I like some christian metal bands, regardless of their message, but they are mostly from the power/traditional metal area.

Christian black metal is basically an oxymoron, since besides the lyrics, the music was intended to sound evil and what would be "considered" diabolical in the eyes of christians.
If christians are playing this, the they either are not able to understand the roots and genesis of the genre, or they are not real christians, because they play music that goes directly against their faith.

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BaloroftheEvilEye
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 7:36 am 
 

circleofdestruction wrote:
Geshy wrote:
Satan is a Christian character. As far as I'm concerned singing about Satan qualifies as Christian music. Just, perverse Christian music.

Erm, no, not necessarily. Singing about Orcs or dragons doesn't mean you actually worship orcs or dragons or hobbits, or believe in them at all. Likewise, having lyrics that reference Satan doesn't make you a devil-worshipper, or mean that you believe in god or the devil.

On the other hand, it is pretty safe to assume people who make unblack metal are actually christians.


Most bands don't actually believe in or worship Satan, it's mostly just an image. Dissection and Therion have some occult beliefs but I don't know if they involve Satan.

Quote:
Indeed, black metal is the only metal genre, that is defined also by the lyrics.


What? No it isn't. Not every black metal band sings about the occult or butchering Christ. Lyrics don't define a genre, man.

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Sleepwalk
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Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 3:19 pm
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 9:02 am 
 

Witcher wrote:
If christians are playing this, the they either are not able to understand the roots and genesis of the genre, or they are not real christians, because they play music that goes directly against their faith.


Even if the music sounds "evil" or shocking to Christians, it doesn't go against Christianity, unless the lyrics are clearly anti-Christian.

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Cyrax666
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 9:07 am 
 

I always saw unblack metal as simply Christian black metal. From what I have also seen with unblack metal is they don't tend to do the complete opposite of satanic black metal and pose in graveyards, holding Christian crosses. A lot of these bands are quite silent about their message so if you can look past Christan undertones of the genre, it isn't too bad.
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Witcher
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 9:15 am 
 

BaloroftheEvilEye wrote:
circleofdestruction wrote:
Geshy wrote:
Satan is a Christian character. As far as I'm concerned singing about Satan qualifies as Christian music. Just, perverse Christian music.

Erm, no, not necessarily. Singing about Orcs or dragons doesn't mean you actually worship orcs or dragons or hobbits, or believe in them at all. Likewise, having lyrics that reference Satan doesn't make you a devil-worshipper, or mean that you believe in god or the devil.

On the other hand, it is pretty safe to assume people who make unblack metal are actually christians.


Most bands don't actually believe in or worship Satan, it's mostly just an image. Dissection and Therion have some occult beliefs but I don't know if they involve Satan.

Quote:
Indeed, black metal is the only metal genre, that is defined also by the lyrics.


What? No it isn't. Not every black metal band sings about the occult or butchering Christ. Lyrics don't define a genre, man.

In this case, they do. Why do you think it was called "black metal"?

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Witcher
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 9:17 am 
 

Sleepwalk wrote:
Witcher wrote:
If christians are playing this, the they either are not able to understand the roots and genesis of the genre, or they are not real christians, because they play music that goes directly against their faith.


Even if the music sounds "evil" or shocking to Christians, it doesn't go against Christianity, unless the lyrics are clearly anti-Christian.



It does go, in the same style as a blasphemous painting or book does.

The intention of the original creators of the sound was clear.


Last edited by Witcher on Sun May 16, 2010 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Witcher
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 9:18 am 
 

Cyrax666 wrote:
I always saw unblack metal as simply Christian black metal. From what I have also seen with unblack metal is they don't tend to do the complete opposite of satanic black metal and pose in graveyards, holding Christian crosses. A lot of these bands are quite silent about their message so if you can look past Christan undertones of the genre, it isn't too bad.

The more ridiculous it is - why do they need to wear corpse paint and mime evil poses of satanic black metal bands?

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elf48687789
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 9:33 am 
 

because most people don't have enough imagination to try anything really original.

What is the idea behind most of the bands? Are they trying to scare people into becoming Christian?

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Foxx
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:59 am
Posts: 856
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 9:35 am 
 

They're likely just making music they like that they feel doesn't offend their Christian values or whatever as most secular black metal bands would offend them.


Last edited by Foxx on Sun May 16, 2010 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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enghell666
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Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 3:10 pm
Posts: 425
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 9:43 am 
 

Whackooyzero wrote:
Winterkald wrote:
I'm pretty sure that unblack metal has nothing to do with black metal whatsoever and it sure as hell has no place in the scene. I guess Slechtvalk is another good exemple of an 'unblack metal band'. Do NOT support!!!


And why should we not support them? Because it has nothing to do with black metal? Because it has christian lyrics?


Yes, because it is pro-christianity and has christian lyrics. christianity has absolutely no place in metal and no place in modern society what so ever, so do NOT support!
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caspian
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 9:45 am 
 

Witcher wrote:
It does go, in the same style as a blasphemous painting or book does.

The intention of the original creators of the sound was clear.


Well, I think it depends. Black Metal is relatively versatile. A christian version of DMDS is gonna fail, but black metal of the Filosofem and, say, Bergtatt would fit pretty well, I reckon, especially if the lyrical subject is done well.

For the most part though I agree, ripping off BM aesthetics and just putting the crosses the right way up is stupid and completely counter productive.
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Winterkald
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 10:16 am 
 

enghell666 wrote:
Whackooyzero wrote:
Winterkald wrote:
I'm pretty sure that unblack metal has nothing to do with black metal whatsoever and it sure as hell has no place in the scene. I guess Slechtvalk is another good exemple of an 'unblack metal band'. Do NOT support!!!


And why should we not support them? Because it has nothing to do with black metal? Because it has christian lyrics?


Yes, because it is pro-christianity and has christian lyrics. christianity has absolutely no place in metal and no place in modern society what so ever, so do NOT support!


My point exactly :) .
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Ina_Dingir_Xul
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 10:43 am 
 

For me, unblack metal is just black metal with Christian lyrics. I judge lyrics based on how well they are wrote, not what subject they cover. So looking at the lyrics of a few bands, I find them pretty okay. Christianity is shit, yeah, but if they can make good music with some intelligent lyrics (apart from just saying "repent" a million times), I will support the band.

Early Crimson Moonlight (Eternal Emperor EP especially) was pretty good. Slechtvalk is not too bad either. Then there are bands like Frost Like Ashes, Winter's Dawn, Ceremonial Sacred and Horde.

Then there are the Christian death metal bands...

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BaloroftheEvilEye
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Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:42 am
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Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 10:44 am 
 

Witcher wrote:
BaloroftheEvilEye wrote:
circleofdestruction wrote:
Geshy wrote:
Satan is a Christian character. As far as I'm concerned singing about Satan qualifies as Christian music. Just, perverse Christian music.

Erm, no, not necessarily. Singing about Orcs or dragons doesn't mean you actually worship orcs or dragons or hobbits, or believe in them at all. Likewise, having lyrics that reference Satan doesn't make you a devil-worshipper, or mean that you believe in god or the devil.

On the other hand, it is pretty safe to assume people who make unblack metal are actually christians.


Most bands don't actually believe in or worship Satan, it's mostly just an image. Dissection and Therion have some occult beliefs but I don't know if they involve Satan.

Quote:
Indeed, black metal is the only metal genre, that is defined also by the lyrics.


What? No it isn't. Not every black metal band sings about the occult or butchering Christ. Lyrics don't define a genre, man.

In this case, they do. Why do you think it was called "black metal"?



What are you on? Even second wave veterans say it's about the music. Black metal just means that -dark, sinister metal. That's like saying NSBM bands aren't black metal.

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Winterkald
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Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 11:03 am 
 

BaloroftheEvilEye wrote:
Witcher wrote:
BaloroftheEvilEye wrote:
circleofdestruction wrote:
Geshy wrote:
Satan is a Christian character. As far as I'm concerned singing about Satan qualifies as Christian music. Just, perverse Christian music.

Erm, no, not necessarily. Singing about Orcs or dragons doesn't mean you actually worship orcs or dragons or hobbits, or believe in them at all. Likewise, having lyrics that reference Satan doesn't make you a devil-worshipper, or mean that you believe in god or the devil.

On the other hand, it is pretty safe to assume people who make unblack metal are actually christians.


Most bands don't actually believe in or worship Satan, it's mostly just an image. Dissection and Therion have some occult beliefs but I don't know if they involve Satan.

Quote:
Indeed, black metal is the only metal genre, that is defined also by the lyrics.


What? No it isn't. Not every black metal band sings about the occult or butchering Christ. Lyrics don't define a genre, man.

In this case, they do. Why do you think it was called "black metal"?



What are you on? Even second wave veterans say it's about the music. Black metal just means that -dark, sinister metal. That's like saying NSBM bands aren't black metal.


But the thing with NSBM is that national socialism is also a war against Christianity. And with that in mind NSBM surely is BM. If you have to approve with this or to tolerate it, yes or no, is completely up to you.

And yes, most black metal fanatics, including second wave veterans, will admit that it is for the biggest part just about the music. However, I'm pretty sure that also the same people who say this can agree that Christians have no place in black metal. Because they simply don't. Black metal is supposed be inhuman, intolerant. Music for individuals. Christianity doesn't really fit into this picture.
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Witcher
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Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 8:27 am
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 11:09 am 
 

BaloroftheEvilEye wrote:
Witcher wrote:
BaloroftheEvilEye wrote:
circleofdestruction wrote:
Geshy wrote:
Satan is a Christian character. As far as I'm concerned singing about Satan qualifies as Christian music. Just, perverse Christian music.

Erm, no, not necessarily. Singing about Orcs or dragons doesn't mean you actually worship orcs or dragons or hobbits, or believe in them at all. Likewise, having lyrics that reference Satan doesn't make you a devil-worshipper, or mean that you believe in god or the devil.

On the other hand, it is pretty safe to assume people who make unblack metal are actually christians.


Most bands don't actually believe in or worship Satan, it's mostly just an image. Dissection and Therion have some occult beliefs but I don't know if they involve Satan.

Quote:
Indeed, black metal is the only metal genre, that is defined also by the lyrics.


What? No it isn't. Not every black metal band sings about the occult or butchering Christ. Lyrics don't define a genre, man.

In this case, they do. Why do you think it was called "black metal"?



What are you on? Even second wave veterans say it's about the music. Black metal just means that -dark, sinister metal. That's like saying NSBM bands aren't black metal.

Do your lesson on metal history. The name was taken from Venom's album of the same name. It was named so because of the satanic, evil and occult lyrics .
It is both about the music as about the lyrics.


Last edited by Witcher on Sun May 16, 2010 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 11:19 am 
 

Whackooyzero wrote:
Winterkald wrote:
I'm pretty sure that unblack metal has nothing to do with black metal whatsoever and it sure as hell has no place in the scene. I guess Slechtvalk is another good exemple of an 'unblack metal band'. Do NOT support!!!


And why should we not support them? Because it has nothing to do with black metal? Because it has christian lyrics?


Because it's fundamentally idiotic in every way. Like previously said, black metal is an anti-christian form of music at its very core. Having people playing this music and singing about some god, some kind of christian mythology...is so silly and so opposite what the genre is about that it's almost like if a power metal band made music with lyrics about why power metal is stupid and sucks. It is like a direct slap in the face to everything that the genre was about.
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Jormungandr_Sorvali
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 11:38 am 
 

I assume the quote in OP's comment was a compliment seeing as Sear Bliss have good lyrical themes. Glory and Perdition is a lot about the cosmos, and that sort of stuff.

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JoniSod
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 1:02 pm 
 

I don't think there's anything wrong with Unblack Metal, but I don't listen to it. Usually I don't give a damn about lyrics so I can listen to any kind of music if the music is good. In fact I've heard some good Christian Metal songs, but I've never heard any Unblack Metal... I think I should try to listen to it some day.
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gazeovice
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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 1:08 pm 
 

[quote="Foxx"]They're likely just making music they like that they feel doesn't offend their Christian values or whatever as most secular black metal bands would offend them.[/quote]

It's quite the opposite really, or at least that's the impression, I had in speaking to some bands. Sometimes I wonder if they are as rabidly fanatic in preaching Christianity, in some sort of bizarre mirrored paradigm of black metal. Suffice to say that is when they lose all credibility.

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