Encyclopaedia Metallum: The Metal Archives

Message board

* FAQ    * Search   * Register   * Login 



This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  
Author Message Previous topic | Next topic
Leperous
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:37 pm
Posts: 98
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:15 pm 
 

I am really drawing a blank here. Like, what is the difference between death metal and brutal death metal? I mean, i hear people say "That's brutal!" to death metal, but that doesn't make it brutal death metal.

I would have to say that it is death metal with rapid tempo changes, possibly breakdowns, distorted guitar and bass, and deep, guttural vocals. I don't even know if this is right and I like brutal death metal...

Any help?
_________________
NightmareLake wrote:
Poika wrote:
well he hasnt been vocalizing for like 16 years what can you expect..
He didn't talk for 16 years?! WOW!

Top
 Profile  
Adriankat
Veteran

Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:54 pm
Posts: 2650
Location: San Jose, California
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:19 pm 
 

All death metal is brutal by definition, but when someone mentions the subgenre brutal death metal, they're referring to the Suffocation-style bands.
_________________
Vomit is just fun leaving the body.
Let's be friends on Steam|Last.FM|Instagram!

Top
 Profile  
NightmareLake
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:06 pm
Posts: 263
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:22 pm 
 

It's usually a reference to shit bands.

Top
 Profile  
AbbaSinNation1
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:04 pm
Posts: 450
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:29 pm 
 

Usually it means VERY percussive.Lots of serious palm muting, not just some open note drone, but like power chords as well.Usually like 3 billion tempo changes too Vocals are more guttural as well usually.Basically, Suffocation.

Top
 Profile  
lord_ghengis
Metal freak

Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:31 pm
Posts: 5373
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:32 pm 
 

Agreed, percussive is probably the most important term in defining it.
_________________
Naamath wrote:
No comments, no words need it, no BM, no compromise, only grains in her face.

Top
 Profile  
BaloroftheEvilEye
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:42 am
Posts: 1623
Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:33 pm 
 

I'd imagine it has non-stop blastbeats.

Top
 Profile  
AbbaSinNation1
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:04 pm
Posts: 450
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:34 pm 
 

BaloroftheEvilEye wrote:
I'd imagine it has non-stop blastbeats.


Not always, mostly yes but a lot of non brutal shit is non stop blasting.

Top
 Profile  
Leperous
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:37 pm
Posts: 98
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:39 pm 
 

AbbaSinNation1 wrote:
BaloroftheEvilEye wrote:
I'd imagine it has non-stop blastbeats.


Not always, mostly yes but a lot of non brutal shit is non stop blasting.


Yeah like Hour of Penance and Origin... Good God I cannot stand stuff like that. Its hard to tell the tracks apart since its JUST blast beats.
_________________
NightmareLake wrote:
Poika wrote:
well he hasnt been vocalizing for like 16 years what can you expect..
He didn't talk for 16 years?! WOW!

Top
 Profile  
Tormentor312
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:11 pm
Posts: 512
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:41 pm 
 

[quote="Adriankat"]All death metal is brutal by definition

except... that.. entire genre called... melodic death metal... its like power metal with growls :P
_________________
Last.FM

Top
 Profile  
BaloroftheEvilEye
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:42 am
Posts: 1623
Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 8:54 pm 
 

Tormentor312 wrote:
except... that.. entire genre called... melodic death metal... its like power metal with growls :P


No, it's not. I mean, yeah there's bands like CoB and Kalmah, but are you telling me Hypocrisy, Godgory or Carcass' Heartwork is power metal? Melodeath is pretty varied (while admittedly being swamped in Gothenburg style melodeath).

Top
 Profile  
Tormentor312
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:11 pm
Posts: 512
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:08 pm 
 

of course i was exaggerating. there are exceptions to everything. if anything those bands you mentioned are the exceptions that prove the rule.

Melodeath has become trendy, most bands sound extremely cheesy / silly to me, and really do sound like power metal with growls for me.

never was a fan of Carcass TBH but hypocrisy is great.

I only wish the sound Dissection pretty much started and perfected had not been bastardized by so many bands
_________________
Last.FM

Top
 Profile  
AbbaSinNation1
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:04 pm
Posts: 450
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:16 pm 
 

Tormentor312 wrote:
Adriankat wrote:
All death metal is brutal by definition

except... that.. entire genre called... melodic death metal... its like power metal with growls :P


That's a stereotype because of bands like In Flames and COB. A lot of melodic death metal doesn't sound like power metal.And most melodic black metal doesn't.

Top
 Profile  
BaloroftheEvilEye
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:42 am
Posts: 1623
Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:27 pm 
 

Tormentor312 wrote:
of course i was exaggerating. there are exceptions to everything. if anything those bands you mentioned are the exceptions that prove the rule.

Melodeath has become trendy, most bands sound extremely cheesy / silly to me, and really do sound like power metal with growls for me.

never was a fan of Carcass TBH but hypocrisy is great.

I only wish the sound Dissection pretty much started and perfected had not been bastardized by so many bands


But they aren't exceptions. There's just a bunch of clones so people think it's the norm. There's still bands like Desultory, Be'lakor and Amon Amarth.

Top
 Profile  
PeachPit
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:52 pm
Posts: 519
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:31 pm 
 

Tormentor312 wrote:
I only wish the sound Dissection pretty much started and perfected had not been bastardized by so many bands


Check out Cipher System for some great Dissection-esque melodeath, if you haven't already.

There are a ton of great melodeath bands beneath the surface!

Top
 Profile  
IdiotFlesh
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:05 am
Posts: 1015
Location: New Hampshire
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:56 pm 
 

Really deep breebree stuff with lyrics about shit eating and fast guitar.

Top
 Profile  
DunnRiffHorror_EHSB
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:47 pm
Posts: 489
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:05 pm 
 

When I think of "Brutal Death Metal", I think of faster, chunky DM with lots of palm muting, blasts, gurgles/growls, and a good amount of technical prowess. Huge sonic walls of insanity. A sound more akin to grindcore than standard sludgy, groovy DM such as Autopsy and Impetigo.

So, yeah, it's very percussive and fast.
_________________
demisetheflesh wrote:
nothing but wank and chugs.

Top
 Profile  
sabbathfan4993
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:51 am
Posts: 221
Location: Champaign, Illinois
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:25 pm 
 

BaloroftheEvilEye wrote:
Tormentor312 wrote:
of course i was exaggerating. there are exceptions to everything. if anything those bands you mentioned are the exceptions that prove the rule.

Melodeath has become trendy, most bands sound extremely cheesy / silly to me, and really do sound like power metal with growls for me.

never was a fan of Carcass TBH but hypocrisy is great.

I only wish the sound Dissection pretty much started and perfected had not been bastardized by so many bands


But they aren't exceptions. There's just a bunch of clones so people think it's the norm. There's still bands like Desultory, Be'lakor and Amon Amarth.


I really wouldn't call desultory melodeath, theyre just pretty straightforward swedish death

Top
 Profile  
MetalHeadNorm
Metalhead

Joined: Sun May 17, 2009 10:57 pm
Posts: 881
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:31 pm 
 

I think the point of Brutal Death Metal is just to be faster with more blast beats than normal Death Metal. I dunno, I actually think it's a useless categorization. When I track my collection, I label both brutal death metal and normal death metal as just "Death Metal." However, I do label Melodic Death Metal as that, and I label the more progressive / spacey DM bands as Technical Death Metal bands like Augury, Atheist, Cynic and the like.
_________________
BloodSacrificeShaman wrote:
BastardHead wrote:
We oughta change your title to "Flash! The Fastest Man on the Board!"


What do you mean by that? How quickly I reply?

Top
 Profile  
Zero_Nowhere
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:11 pm
Posts: 513
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:40 pm 
 

If that's your definition of brutal death, it's no wonder you consider it to be a useless categorisation.

Top
 Profile  
SharpAndSlender
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:49 am
Posts: 2260
Location: Bradenton, Florida
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:33 am 
 

An easy analogy - death metal:brutal death :: doom/death:funeral doom

Essentially it just takes the most obvious and clear elements of the genre and overdrives them dramatically.
_________________
Trial By Ordeal:
http://trialbyordeal666.blogspot.com/

Twitter:
http://www.twitter.com/noktorn01

Lepernicus wrote:
Every record that dipshit sold took away money that could have went to a far more deserving band such as Immolation.

Top
 Profile  
kimiwind
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:45 am
Posts: 482
Location: Japan
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:15 am 
 

Most brutal death metal songs are shorter than the usual death metal!! and also the lyrical themes are quite approching to the grind themes and style.
_________________
Regards, Kimiwind1184

Top
 Profile  
SatanicPotato
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:52 pm
Posts: 1621
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:28 am 
 

i thought brutal death metal also tended to have higher pitched vocals sometimes(pig squeals)

Top
 Profile  
andersbang
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:28 am
Posts: 672
Location: Denmark
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:46 am 
 

What about bands like Nile or Hate Eternal or Origin? They are considered brutal death (at least here on MA, and I think of them that way too), though they don't have a lot of stuff in common with what many people call brutal death nowadays (ie slam).
_________________
That god lives in silence who has scoured the following land with salt and ash.
ralfikk123 wrote:
Music is like a blowjob. Just shut up and enjoy it. However metal is the blowjob given by a hot model.

Top
 Profile  
BaloroftheEvilEye
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:42 am
Posts: 1623
Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:50 am 
 

andersbang wrote:
What about bands like Nile or Hate Eternal or Origin? They are considered brutal death (at least here on MA, and I think of them that way too), though they don't have a lot of stuff in common with what many people call brutal death nowadays (ie slam).

What IS slam? I keep hearing about it, but I have no idea what seperates it from regular death metal.

Top
 Profile  
rawsewage
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:29 pm
Posts: 298
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:57 am 
 

slam is more based off hardcore where as they are more about the breakdown instead of the technicality of brutal death metal.

Top
 Profile  
Rottenrectum
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:41 pm
Posts: 2245
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:04 am 
 

BaloroftheEvilEye wrote:
andersbang wrote:
What about bands like Nile or Hate Eternal or Origin? They are considered brutal death (at least here on MA, and I think of them that way too), though they don't have a lot of stuff in common with what many people call brutal death nowadays (ie slam).

What IS slam? I keep hearing about it, but I have no idea what seperates it from regular death metal.

Listen to the first album by Devourment. That is slam. Slams are a kind of heavy and groovy riffing.
Like people have said, brutal death metal is a more percussive and thick kind of death metal, often a lot faster too. It doesn't have to be more "brutal" than regular death metal, a lot of brutal death bands are about as brutal as a power metal band, and everyone defines "brutality" in music differently. Hour Of Penance is what I think as the textbook definition of brutal death metal. It's faster, more technical, heavier and more intensive than your average Florida death.
_________________
DEATH JÄVLA METAL

darkdead wrote:
I have still quarrelling the musician.

Top
 Profile  
tomcat_ha
Veteran

Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
Posts: 2653
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:37 pm 
 

I dont consider brutal death more intense most of the time. Infact i know just 1 brutal death band that id call actually more intense than standard death and that would be Fornjotr.

Top
 Profile  
witchammer
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:45 pm
Posts: 44
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:28 pm 
 

BaloroftheEvilEye wrote:
andersbang wrote:
What about bands like Nile or Hate Eternal or Origin? They are considered brutal death (at least here on MA, and I think of them that way too), though they don't have a lot of stuff in common with what many people call brutal death nowadays (ie slam).

What IS slam? I keep hearing about it, but I have no idea what seperates it from regular death metal.

It's kind of an older sibling to deathcore. Bands like Dying Fetus and Skinless are good examples of slam bands. It's a more mosh-friendly simplistic form of death metal.

*EDIT
Simplistic is a bad word, straight-ahead is better. In other words, you won't really hear too much experimentation in slam.


Last edited by witchammer on Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
Leperous
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:37 pm
Posts: 98
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:29 pm 
 

Rottenrectum wrote:
BaloroftheEvilEye wrote:
andersbang wrote:
What about bands like Nile or Hate Eternal or Origin? They are considered brutal death (at least here on MA, and I think of them that way too), though they don't have a lot of stuff in common with what many people call brutal death nowadays (ie slam).

What IS slam? I keep hearing about it, but I have no idea what seperates it from regular death metal.

Listen to the first album by Devourment. That is slam. Slams are a kind of heavy and groovy riffing.
Like people have said, brutal death metal is a more percussive and thick kind of death metal, often a lot faster too. It doesn't have to be more "brutal" than regular death metal, a lot of brutal death bands are about as brutal as a power metal band, and everyone defines "brutality" in music differently. Hour Of Penance is what I think as the textbook definition of brutal death metal. It's faster, more technical, heavier and more intensive than your average Florida death.


You hit it pretty head on until I read Hour of Penance. I hate them and cannot stand them at all. Skinless is my textbook band of brutal death metal, even though they aren't as big, they have a good combination of groove, technicality and that percussive tone that bdm bands have, but that is just me.
_________________
NightmareLake wrote:
Poika wrote:
well he hasnt been vocalizing for like 16 years what can you expect..
He didn't talk for 16 years?! WOW!

Top
 Profile  
Zero_Nowhere
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:11 pm
Posts: 513
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:51 pm 
 

I'd be more inclined to cite Suffocation (Effigy of the Forgotten primarily) as the blueprint for brutal death - and all its offshoots.

Top
 Profile  
ricktard
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:58 am
Posts: 19
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:51 pm 
 

witchammer wrote:
Bands like Dying Fetus and Skinless are good examples of slam bands.


Either you're wrong, or I am a slam loving pansy. I hope ( and think) it's the first option.

Top
 Profile  
lord_ghengis
Metal freak

Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:31 pm
Posts: 5373
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:01 pm 
 

Dying Fetus are pretty slam from what I've heard, but I've only heard some of their newer stuff. Never heard Skinless, don't plan to since I dislike slam quite a lot.
_________________
Naamath wrote:
No comments, no words need it, no BM, no compromise, only grains in her face.

Top
 Profile  
gazeovice
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2009 12:53 pm
Posts: 555
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:14 pm 
 

lord_ghengis wrote:
Dying Fetus are pretty slam from what I've heard, but I've only heard some of their newer stuff. Never heard Skinless, don't plan to since I dislike slam quite a lot.


I don't know if they are slam themselves, though, I think they were pivotal in creating it. I've always considered them more hardcore influenced death metal, if you've only heard their newer stuff check out "Destroy the Opposition".

Top
 Profile  
Zero_Nowhere
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:11 pm
Posts: 513
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:38 pm 
 

ricktard wrote:
witchammer wrote:
Bands like Dying Fetus and Skinless are good examples of slam bands.


Either you're wrong, or I am a slam loving pansy. I hope ( and think) it's the first option.


They're not quite slam, but they're good examples of what would lead to slam. The emphasis on groove and breakdowns, the more gutteral vocals, the NYHC influence and the overall sludgier, more percussive approach to DM. Everything that would define slam was there, it just wasn't as compressed or focused.

Course, even Devourment never took things to the extent that modern slam does. So you could probably make a case for lumping them in with early slam bands based on similarity, the same way that some harsher death/thrash bands get lumped in with 'pure' DM.

Top
 Profile  
Devourgasm138
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2009 4:59 am
Posts: 330
Location: Pakistan
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 2:55 am 
 

witchammer wrote:
Bands like Dying Fetus and Skinless are good examples of slam bands.


You are so very wrong mate. Dying Fetus has more hardcore elements in their music and Skinless is a standard brutal death metal band. So you can't really cite them as slam bands. If it wasn't for Devourment's debut, there wouldn't even be Slam, at least not as we know it now. Almost all slam bands are influenced by Devourment. Some other bands who had their role in development of this sub-genre are Eternal Suffering, Internal Bleeding and Repudilation. But most people don't know about them as they didn't get as much attention as Devourment did. And why people can't differentiate between slam and deathcore is beyond me.

Top
 Profile  
lord_ghengis
Metal freak

Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:31 pm
Posts: 5373
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:35 am 
 

People can't differenciate between brutal death and deathcore? Sure, they're both full of breakdowns, but the breakdown style is extremely different.
_________________
Naamath wrote:
No comments, no words need it, no BM, no compromise, only grains in her face.

Top
 Profile  
SharpAndSlender
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:49 am
Posts: 2260
Location: Bradenton, Florida
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:38 am 
 

To say that slam is substantially influenced by hardcore is something of a misnomer in my opinion: the 'slam' breakdown is extremely different in structure and sound from a hardcore breakdown. It's more an extension and dramatization of grooving NYDM. While there were older bands that performed a similar style (Internal Bleeding, Dying Fetus, etc.) those are more of a 'proto slam' and don't feature the sort of focus that defines the genre as it stands. As Devourgasm said, everyone gives the most credit to Devourment, but that's for a reason: yeah, you could suggest that there are bands which created the slam archetype before Devourment did, but no single band did as much to codify the genre and influence others as they did.
_________________
Trial By Ordeal:
http://trialbyordeal666.blogspot.com/

Twitter:
http://www.twitter.com/noktorn01

Lepernicus wrote:
Every record that dipshit sold took away money that could have went to a far more deserving band such as Immolation.

Top
 Profile  
Rottenrectum
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:41 pm
Posts: 2245
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:15 am 
 

I have never heard a single slam riff in Dying Fetus or Skinless. Jason Keysers other band Mucopus is pretty slammy though. The first slam riff was written by Suffocation, in the song Liege Of Inveracity, it starts around 2.50 and goes on for about 20 s.
_________________
DEATH JÄVLA METAL

darkdead wrote:
I have still quarrelling the musician.

Top
 Profile  
DrSharK
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:25 pm
Posts: 498
Location: Denmark
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:32 am 
 

lord_ghengis wrote:
People can't differenciate between brutal death and deathcore? Sure, they're both full of breakdowns, but the breakdown style is extremely different.


Not to mention Deathcore is melodic, which slam death certainly isn't.

Top
 Profile  
Zero_Nowhere
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:11 pm
Posts: 513
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:07 pm 
 

SharpAndSlender wrote:
To say that slam is substantially influenced by hardcore is something of a misnomer in my opinion: the 'slam' breakdown is extremely different in structure and sound from a hardcore breakdown. It's more an extension and dramatization of grooving NYDM.


They're significantly different from the modern metalcore/deathcore single note staccato chugs but not all that far removed from the rolling groove-based breakdowns used in early metalcore and tough-guy Hardcore. Which isn't that surprising really. The NYHC scene had an influence on NYDM in general but a march larger influence on the proto-slam bands like DF and Internal Bleeding


Last edited by Zero_Nowhere on Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies. Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Artillery90, DarkWolfXV, Exigence, Expedience, Google [Bot], MawBTS and 21 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

Back to the Encyclopaedia Metallum


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group