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MaDTransilvanian
Caravan Beyond Redemption

Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:56 pm
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Location: Romania
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:45 am 
 

OzzyApu wrote:
FierceBlackandWicked already did a WASP overview on the first page.


Yeah he did and it's quite good but I figured you'd be able to inject a bit more... detail, since it is a bit brief. Still, this thread isn't going anywhere anytime soon, I hope.
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CrushedRevelation
Devil's right hand

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:13 am 
 

I'm glad to see that it is still creating discussion.

I have been toying with the idea of doing this band for a while now so here goes.

Primordial

Variations in quality

This is a group that should need no introduction to those into Metal, as they burst onto the (then fledgling) second wave Black Metal scene back in 1995 with their interesting and somewhat unique debut album Imrama, and have been with us ever since. The album was a breath of fresh air at the time, due to the individual slant they cast into the scene, filled with traditional elements woven throughout the album, and a strong identity all of their own with clearly enough talent to capitalize upon that.

Since that auspicious entrance into the eyes of the world, there has been numerous albums - all having a special feel and tone all of their own. Each album has not been a repeat of what came before, but rather an extension of it, like a forest covering new ground over time. This ability to change their sound without compromising their identity has been the hallmark of Primordial over their extensive life span. Which, in turn gives them a fantastic variation in quality, some albums may seem similar (not uncomfortably so) but are not the same, making each record an enjoyable journey.

Arrival or departure of various important band members

The core of Primordial has always consisted of Ciáran MacUiliam(guitar), Naihmass Nemtheanga(vocals/lyrics) and Pól "Paul" MacAmlaigh(bass), with Ciáran handling all the song writing. They have only had two members leave, losing both their original guitarist (apart form Ciáran, who has been with the band from the beginning) and drummer. This has not affected them in any way, as the newcomers have handled their respective duties formidably.

Association with various labels

Primordial have been associated with four labels for their full-length records. The debut was released on Cacophonous, who were rather prolific in both releases and signing of bands in the early nineties, then onto Misanthropy then Hammerheart and finally, with the last two albums Metal Blade.

Metal Blade was probably a good move, as their reputation for quality music, and popularity grew, allowing greater worldwide distribution and exposure.

Variations in genre

The intriguing gem that stood out from the undergound that was their debut, could be quite simply labeled Black Metal, at least musically, as it bore customary traits of the genre, their lyrics, however, dealt more with pagan/heathen themes instead of the usual Satanic iconography. While this was not uncommon, they deftly wove these themes with imagery from their homeland of Ireland, again setting them apart from the then typical Norwegian groups of the second wave.

The sophomore album A Journey's End, took on a different angle, having a more introspective theme, coupled with harsh bitterness, and stepped away a little from Black Metal stylistically, yet still being linked to the genre. The following albums, which saw the birth of one of their greatest bodies of work in the Spirit The Earth Aflame album, and Storm Before Calm, were advancing towards a more measured, epic approach, but at the same time reverting (slightly) back to Black Metal in a musical sense.

It was not until both The Gathering Wilderness and To The Nameless Dead were released that there is an almost complete shedding of Black metal influences altogether. Both of these albums contained powerful and emotive, almost personal themes of tragedy, loss, bitterness and indignant anger. These two albums are harder to label in a particular genre, beyond the fact that they're awesome, as they both have an earthy, epic, organic feel. Just good heavy metal.

Exposure

The debut record was a fairly obscure sounding one at it's release (for the time), as it sounded almost like no-one else, giving them a vital foothold within the ever expanding scene - helping to carve out a well founded fan base. During the course of the years, their popularity (obviously) increased due to the superior song craft the band wields. This can mainly be attributed to Ciáran's instantly recognizable and emotive guitar playing along side Nemtheanga's powerful, inspiring lyrics and vocal work. Their excellent live shows further cemented them as a force to be reckoned with (although I myself have yet to see them).

Lyrical themes/concepts

Lyrically, Nemtheanga is within the scale of great writers. Not only are his lyrics powerful as they are at times personal, his style is also inspirational, igniting long dead fires within to rouse your pagan/heathen spirit and pride. For example:

Spirit The Earth Aflame

"Beneath the Bronze sky
a Horizon in Flame
The Oceans Boil
The Earth heaves
...and seethes
there is a new Sun rising
that has not Risen for
Thousands of years

Prophets have Written
Songs have been Sung
We have Awoken
A New Age has begun
Spirit The Earth Aflame

...And so it starts...
the beginning of a new turn in the cycle..."


This spoken word piece is a fantastic, stirring way to open an album. Instantly pulling you in, commanding attention. Tragedy is another major theme within Primordial's lyrics, accompanied by haunting music, compounding and complimenting the theme.

The greatest compliment I can give this stunning band, is the fact that during their evolution, as a group, is the ability to make every album they make seem natural - never forced or contrived. And they follow their own path putting every ounce of themselves into what they do, and it shows in the records. Primordial is the only band I can think of that are both brave and talented enough to pick up the legacy and mantle that Bathory has left us with. And more power to them.
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Last edited by CrushedRevelation on Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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MaDTransilvanian
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:19 pm 
 

CrushedRevelation wrote:

It was not until both The Gathering Wilderness and To The Nameless Dead were released that there is an almost complete shedding of Black metal influences altogether. Both of these albums contained powerful and emotive, almost personal themes of tragedy, loss, bitterness and indignant anger. These two albums are harder to label in a particular genre, beyond the fact that they're awesome, as they both have an earthy, epic, organic feel. Just good heavy metal.


This is basically the only era of Primordial that I can comment on, not having heard the earlier albums (or even The Gathering Wilderness in its entirety, actually). I'd call it a form of heavy metal with a strong atmosphere very similar to that of pagan metal but, as you said, dissociated from the standard black metal approach to what we loosely call pagan metal. New Primordial just feels like it's that.

Also, good comparison with Bathory near the end. It never occurred to me but it's deadly accurate. Damn, I need to get this band's other albums.
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CrushedRevelation
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:59 pm 
 

MaDTransilvanian wrote:
Also, good comparison with Bathory near the end. It never occurred to me but it's deadly accurate. Damn, I need to get this band's other albums.


Thanks. It's a theory I have held for a while, and one I firmly believe.

I also cannot recommend strongly enough to you to acquire their earlier records, simply because the back catalogue has some amazing music within.
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theheinouskilling667
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:14 am 
 

Bezerko wrote:
Nope, sorry to burst your bubble but The Apostasy is absolute shit, and Evangelion isn't much better.


Yeah, nope.

I'M ON MY WAY, DESTINATION HELL!

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MaDTransilvanian
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:48 pm 
 

theheinouskilling667 wrote:
I'M ON MY WAY, DESTINATION HELL!


What are you talking about, exactly?
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Bezerko
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:32 am 
 

Wiggercore Behemoth, no doubt.

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MaDTransilvanian
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:19 pm 
 

Bezerko wrote:
Wiggercore Behemoth, no doubt.


That's the thing, Behemoth, for all their current blandness, shitty computer-generated image and career stagnation, have little in common with deathcore. At least from a musical point of view.
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MaDTransilvanian
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:40 pm 
 

Subterranean_voice wrote:
In Flames

1) Raw sound turned into a very polished sound
2) Early session vocalists proved to be favourites among many fans. This was due to the first "official" vocalist changing his style, straying from the roots of the Gothenburg Sound


How did Mikael Stanne (whose vocals are very close to what they'd be on early Dark Tranquillity and would just evolve from there on) any different from most MDM vocalists of the time, chief amongst them being Anders Fridén? His performance on Skydancer is quite close to Mikael's on Lunar Strain.
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Razakel
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:57 am 
 

MaDTransilvanian wrote:
Bezerko wrote:
Wiggercore Behemoth, no doubt.


That's the thing, Behemoth, for all their current blandness, shitty computer-generated image and career stagnation, have little in common with deathcore. At least from a musical point of view.


I won't accept this with regard to Demigod. I think that's exceptional for modern death metal.

@CrushedRevelation: Grea Primordial write up, I certainly learned a few things. Could you pick a favourite Primordial album? I used to say To The Nameless Dead, but lately I've leaning more towards The Gathering Wilderness.

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CrushedRevelation
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:05 am 
 

Razakel wrote:
@CrushedRevelation: Grea Primordial write up, I certainly learned a few things. Could you pick a favourite Primordial album? I used to say To The Nameless Dead, but lately I've leaning more towards The Gathering Wilderness.


Thanks.

I can name you my favourite album, which would be Spirit The Earth Aflame (the Burning Season ep is also worth mentioning - it's stellar). But, having said that The Gathering Wilderness come very close. Tracks like Gods To The Godless, The Soul Must Sleep and Glorious Dawn are simply amazing (all from STEA), stirring metal anthems.
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Hemispheres
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:21 am 
 

The FYE about 25 minutes from where I live is selling like 4 or 5 different Primordial albums for like 3.99 to 4.99. From what I remember by album covers they are selling that best of Dark Romanticism, Storm before calm, a journey's end and I believe spirit of earth aflame. To the nameless dead which I have is like regular price and the gathering wilderness is like regular price.

Worth picking up some of those cheaper ones?
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CrushedRevelation
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:33 am 
 

Definitely. Hell, buy them all. Like I said in my write up, each album has it's own personality and charm, and don't disappoint with the amount of sheer passion involved.
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MaDTransilvanian
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:34 am 
 

Hemispheres wrote:
The FYE about 25 minutes from where I live is selling like 4 or 5 different Primordial albums for like 3.99 to 4.99. From what I remember by album covers they are selling that best of Dark Romanticism, Storm before calm, a journey's end and I believe spirit of earth aflame. To the nameless dead which I have is like regular price and the gathering wilderness is like regular price.

Worth picking up some of those cheaper ones?


Holy Fuck... I'd pay 3-4 times that for Primordial albums... Where the hell do you live?? Stores in Canada are money-grabbing whores who usually don't let ANYTHING off for less than 19.99.
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Razakel
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:33 pm 
 

Hemispheres wrote:
The FYE about 25 minutes from where I live is selling like 4 or 5 different Primordial albums for like 3.99 to 4.99. From what I remember by album covers they are selling that best of Dark Romanticism, Storm before calm, a journey's end and I believe spirit of earth aflame. To the nameless dead which I have is like regular price and the gathering wilderness is like regular price.

Worth picking up some of those cheaper ones?


Yeah, you'd have to be a fool not to. All Primordial albums are worth owning.

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Sokaris
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:12 pm 
 

Razakel wrote:
Hemispheres wrote:
The FYE about 25 minutes from where I live is selling like 4 or 5 different Primordial albums for like 3.99 to 4.99. From what I remember by album covers they are selling that best of Dark Romanticism, Storm before calm, a journey's end and I believe spirit of earth aflame. To the nameless dead which I have is like regular price and the gathering wilderness is like regular price.

Worth picking up some of those cheaper ones?


Yeah, you'd have to be a fool not to. All Primordial albums are worth owning.


I own four Primordial albums and combined I know I paid about $25 for them. I got three from FYE (weird, eh?) that someone traded in, although they were sealed. The other one I got from Open Grave before that guy started ripping people off.
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MaDTransilvanian
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:06 am 
 

Sokaris wrote:
I own four Primordial albums and combined I know I paid about $25 for them. I got three from FYE (weird, eh?) that someone traded in, although they were sealed. The other one I got from Open Grave before that guy started ripping people off.


Damn you, I have one Primordial album and I had to pay like 18$ for it. Who the hell trades in Primordial albums anyway, that's like a crime against music. Anyway, count yourself lucky that you have them, the extremely low price is just twisting the knife for me... :P
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MaDTransilvanian
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:59 pm 
 

Let's see how trying to analyze a lesser known band works out. I'll do Siebenbürgen, the gothic/black metal band from Sweden.

I guess I can divide their career into three phases of different length. First of all there’s the (1) early material, corresponding to the Loreia album and the various preceding demos and the live album preceding it, none of which I have. Now this is the band playing a sort of black metal but it’s rather bizarre. They try to integrate the gothic elements of their future career into the album, primarily through the use of female vocals. These are used in the most gratingly annoying way possible. They’re extremely cheesy when they appear (they make all Nightwish vocals seem godly all the time by comparison) and pretty much ruin the album, which would otherwise be decent if somewhat unremarkable black metal.

Following this sad beginning is the (2) normal black metal phase, where the band pretty much loses the amateurish gothic overtones of the previous phase in favour of a much more straightforward take on black metal. This phase’s only manifestation is the Grimjaur album. It’s still influenced by that classic gothic sound and atmosphere when compared to the usual, “pure” black metal but the influence is subtle and appropriate, not overambitious, cheesy and generally excessive like it used to be. Overall this is a great phase (and album).

Finally, and I might be a bit wrong about this, not having heard their reunion album, the rest of their career can safely be called the (3) gothic black metal phase. It begins with the third album, Delictum, a masterpiece of a gothic/BM hybrid, and continues on with the two following albums (and the last one I assume, but can’t be sure on that yet). Female gothic metal vocals reappear in full here, but this time they’re used tastefully, to give the songs atmosphere, not to fag them up. The quality here is very high and relatively constant throughout, despite the massively negative reviews of Plagues by thy Angel on the site (I plan on contributing to correct that eventually). Majesties Infernal, Storms, As of Sin, Plagued by the Angel (song), The Roses Bleed at Night, As Legions Rise, A Crimson Coronation and Remnants of Ruin are just some of the awesome tracks on these three albums, and this entire phase is definitely something deserving of attention.
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MaDTransilvanian
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:08 pm 
 

I have to say, this thread is good practice for the upcoming reviews I plan to hit, those of multiple-album box sets by bands such as Summoning, Old Man's Child and Samael.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:32 pm 
 

Edguy/Tobias Sammet's Work

Tobias Sammet is a man who used to fall into the whole category of 'guilty pleasure/ear-candy/easy-listening' metal along with bands like Hammerfall, mid-period Stratovarius and 90s Helloween when Deris first arrived, but with every new release he grows and defies that stereotype with middle fingers raised. His work is oft-unappreciated it seems, by people who don't seem to understand anything about musical progress and how one person might, uh, actually get tired of playing one style of music and move onto another one. Now, okay, it's a bit harsh to say that these people are foolish or anything, as I can understand preferences for a style, but every year I start to hear exactly how much Tobias has grown in his songwriting and every year I miss the 'power metal' days less and less. The man is going places.

EARLY PERIOD - HEAVY/POWER METAL
Albums: Savage Poetry, Kingdom of Madness, Vain Glory Opera

This was the early 90s, surprising because Edguy got here with an album before Rhapsody and HammerFall and Sonata Arctica and the whole rest of the gang did. They played a very traditional, riffy style of music, except with an added reliance on gang choruses and harmonizing vocals and all of that. They were always a tad more muscular than their contemporaries and it made for an interesting sound, even when the songwriting was kind of juvenile at times. With each album Tobias' vocals got better and the songs got more elaborate, until...

MIDDLE PERIOD - PURE POWER METAL
Albums: Theater of Salvation, Mandrake, The Metal Opera 1 and 2

Now, here he started to really get a taste for the theatrical and the overblown. On Theater of Salvation he introduced a host of majestic choirs and a new, sleek production job, as well as some real epic songs like the jaw-dropping title track and "Land of the Miracle," which had never been seen on an Edguy album before. It wasn't a great album, with too many songs that just didn't stack up to the better ones, but it was good, and set the stage for future releases. Mandrake streamlined that sound and tightened up the loose ends, making Edguy's best album up until that point, with big hooks and heavy guitars galore. It was a great mixture of 90s Helloween and a pinch of Stratovarius here and there.

Avantasia, his notorious side project, busted out two albums bookending Mandrake, the Metal Operas, which are very, very well received worldwide. Featuring multiple vocalists of esteemed calibre, the albums were flawed by simplistic songwriting and too many forgettable tracks and interludes, although a few moments of glory like...well, like "The Glory of Rome," "Sign of the Cross" and "Reach Out for the Light" remained. It seemed like Tobias had over-reached himself here, creating an ambitious concept that he just wasn't mature enough to tackle yet.

LATE PERIOD - HEAVY METAL/HARD ROCK PERIOD
Albums: Hellfire Club, Rocket Ride, Tinnitus Sanctus, The Wicked Trilogy of Avantasia

I struggled with exactly how to classify these, as the newest Avantasia albums jump all over the map, and can't just be classified as "Heavy Metal/Hard Rock"...but alas.

Hellfire Club and Rocket Ride showed the band sounding more comfortable and fun-loving than ever before. Tobias seemed to be going through a phase of really goofy shit, as we got a ton of stuff like "Lavatory Love Machine," "Superheroes," "Rise of the Morning Glory," etc. amongst the more serious work like "The Piper Never Dies" and "Under the Moon." I enjoyed the humorous stuff well enough, but it really didn't show his full potential as a songwriter...but then, why not have a little fun? You only live once, right? Both albums were creative and fun, offering a variety of songwriting modes and a ton of energy.

The Scarecrow was a new kind of beast entirely, with people labeling it a sell out, calling it commercial and light and all of that...but really, what is selling out about this? It's an honest work, and although I can see some problems with it now that I didn't see in 2008, like some songs just not cooking as hard as they could have, it's still a really good album, and the variety between songs really works.

Tinnitus Sanctus is...okay, I'm going to draw a lot of polarizing opinions here, but it's the best Edguy album to date; still is. It isn't perfect, but I just can't see any of the other ones the same way anymore. It just kicks ass. The songwriting is tight and memorable, the hooks gloriously constructed and the whole thing just really, really enjoyable. It showed that Edguy were still a serious band and that they still had a ton of creative fire left over. What will they do next? Hell, I don't even think Tobias knows.

Angel of Babylon and The Wicked Symphony are both very good albums on their own, and together they make for a hell of a lot of great songs. I have to say The Wicked Symphony is a better album overall, but I really like Angel of Babylon, too. I like the more fragmented storytelling bites, I like the energy...eh, just wait for my full review.
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Sokaris
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:09 pm 
 

MaDTransilvanian wrote:
Let's see how trying to analyze a lesser known band works out. I'll do Siebenbürgen, the gothic/black metal band from Sweden.


Ahh, I love this band, they don't get nearly enough attention. I realized recently what I find most interesting is that they seem to integrate a lot of almost pure speed metal elements (from Plagued be Thy Angel on up) into their sound.
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MaDTransilvanian
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:19 pm 
 

Sokaris wrote:
MaDTransilvanian wrote:
Let's see how trying to analyze a lesser known band works out. I'll do Siebenbürgen, the gothic/black metal band from Sweden.


Ahh, I love this band, they don't get nearly enough attention. I realized recently what I find most interesting is that they seem to integrate a lot of almost pure speed metal elements (from Plagued be Thy Angel on up) into their sound.


I never really thought of it that way (the speed metal influence). Now that I think of it, that period (from PbtA onward) is a bit different in terms of sound when compared to Delictum and the previous albums. Interesting realization. Either way, I need to review Plagued by thy Angel, it deserves way more than the bashing it gets right now.
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Visionary
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:38 pm 
 

Whackooyzero wrote:
How is Savatage power metal at all? When I hear Sirens, I hear raw, dirty, awesome speed metal, nothing power at all. And Hall Of The Mountain King is basically the same but a bit more varied. Seriously what is power metal about their sound?


USPM is quite different from what a lot of power metal sounds like today such as Dark Moor and Sonata Arctica. USPM is clsoely related to thrash and speed and there can be numerous overlaps. I have only heard Hall of the Mountain King but I find it comfortably fits under USPM.
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Oxenkiller
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:16 am 
 

One band who have always facinated me are the UK's ONSLAUGHT.

Each of their first three records sounds completely different- if you count their demos you might think it was four different bands!

So we begin with:

Onslaught 1983-1984: DISCHARGE-INFLUENCED HARDCORE PUNK.
Cool as heck, if you like D-beat crust/hardcore that is. ..With the looks and image to match. Several DIY releases but no official record deal. Then Paul Mahoney joins, they get a record deal, and that leads us to:

Onslaught 1984-1985: VENOM-INFLUENCED DEATH METAL. They issue an LP that still retains some of their earlier punk influences (e.g. "Thermonuclear Devastation"; "Skullcrusher") but with a definate campy/Venom-ous satanic image and lyrical themes. That hollow, distorted guitar sound just kicks ass, giving them a raw, blackened, dirty, and aggressive feel.

Onslaught 1986-1987. SLAYER-INFLUENCED THRASH METAL.
LP number two. Still an indie band but with a much thrashier sound, and ditching all vestiges of their previous punk past. Sy Keeler is on vocals, Mahoney switches to playing bass, and while the music is more polished sounding than before it is still very powerful and aggressive, albiet in a pure heavy metal fashion. This is their best album, in my opinion. Onslaught peaks at this point.

Onslaught 1988-1991. TECHNICAL THRASH. Ah yes, that coveted Major Label Deal. Aint it a shame how many bands have reached for that brass ring only to fall off the horse once they grab it. First they switch singers, which was not entirely the band's own idea either. That guy from Grim Reaper is a good vocalist but...not really right for this band. Then they switch music, going for a more technical, convoluted sound similar to what Metallica did on "And Justice For All." The music is tighter than ever, the songs are way more complex, but it has lost most of its previous aggression. In other words, it is less catchy and has lost most of the qualities which made the band popular originally. Plenty of thrash bands tried this, sacrificing catchiness and aggressiveness at the altar of technicality. To continue the timeline, the album gets some good reviews here and there but the fans are apathetic, the thrash scene in general starts to evolve towards death and black metal (rendering bands like this to the "out of style" bin) and the record label eventually gives up on them. Around 1991 the band throws in the towel as well.

Onslaught 1992-2005: WORKING BORING ASS DEAD END JOBS AND RAISING KIDS (or whatever it is bands do after they split up.)

Onslaught 2006-date: CASHING IN ON THE PAST. You see, I have somewhat of a jaded, cynical attitude towards classic era thrash metal bands that reform out of the blue like this. Sometimes they can recapture some of the magic and energy of their old days, other times it is kind of hit and miss. So, Onslaught reunites, issues a new album in 2006, and goes on tour, and, well, the album is okay. It's listenable. Totally different from the old stuff, I can definitely detect some of the dreaded "Nu-metal" influences in it, but it is still a bona fide thrash LP. While the cynical part of me often feels that bands just do this for the money, I would honestly rather believe it is a love of the music and a genuine (though not always successful) attempt to rekindle their passion for metal.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:40 pm 
 

I'll do one of my favourite bands, Tristania. There is a lot that can be mentioned, considering how they continually develop their sound.

Widow's Weeds/ Beyond the Veil era:

Two albums which very possibly influenced gothic metal to what it is today, more or less. Certainly many bands try to mimick the sound from this era. The music isn't so complicated, but, sounds great. Vibeke uses her shining operatic voice, but is practically secondary to Morten's growls.

World of Glass era:

Previous departure of Morten Veland. He wanted to keep the same sound, but the other members wanted to expand, so he was kicked out. His absence certainly shows, but not in a bad way. The album continues on the gothic sound, but with more industrial (quite a few) and black metal (just a bit) elements. Guest vocals done by Ronny Thorsen. Osten Bergoy joins as full time member soon after.

Ashes era:

Kjetil Ingebrethsen joins band as harsh vocalist. He does a good job. Not much range, but he compliments the sound nicely. In this album there is a decrease in female vocals and keyboards. Easily Tristania's darkest sounding album. Yet it is still beautiful in it's own way. It's odd how some powerful tracks like 'Libre' and 'The Wretched' are on the same album as softer ones like 'Shadowman' and 'Cure.' Nonetheless they fit well together. Possibly my favourite era by Tristania.

Illumination era:

Kjetil Ingebrethsen leaves band before this CD. Guest harsh vocals are provided by Vorph from Samael, but they only feature in three tracks. For the first time since Beyond the Veil, Tristania experiment with two guitarists, the new guitarist being Svein Terje Solvang. The sound here is pretty damn unique. I can't think of a simple name for it. It seems to incorporate gothic metal with mellow rock, but it sounds like nothing that I have ever heard before, and it's still a great sound.

Current era, new album to be released soon:

Drastic changes in the band line-up. Rune Osterhus (bass) leaves. Svein Terje Solvang (guitar) leaves. Most importantly, Vibeke Stene (vocals) leaves. Their replacements, in order are: Ole Vistnes, Gyri S. Losnegaard, and Mariangela Demurtas. Anders Høyvik Hidle (also guitars) take sover the harsh vocal duty. The new singer especially caused a lot of commotion amongst the fan base. However in my opinion, while Vibeke Stene will be strongly missed, Tristania are about been about developing their sound, and with Mariangela, who is a very good singer) they can do so further.

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Oxenkiller
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:40 pm 
 

I would love to see someone do this with Napalm Death. (I dont have the time right now, nor am I as familiar with their really new stuff, plus I just did one for another band, etc.)

The reason is, that band is unique in that not only has their style shifted dramatically since thier inception, but the entire line-up has been overturned, not once but twice! By the end of 1987, not one original founding member was left in the band, but by 1995 not one member of that 1987 lineup was still in the band. This has always intrigued me about Napalm Death- especially how the later versions of the group were able to continue using the name.

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Folkemon_
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:56 pm 
 

Pyogenesis, i really love their old stuff, great melodic death/doom, anyway heres their evolution from my perspective

we got the demo's Ode to the Churning Seas of Nar-Matarum, Rise of the Unholy and Sacrificious Profanity which are pure death metal

then theres the Ignis Creatio EP which is mostly doom/death with some melodic and gothic influences

then we have Waves of Erotasia EP which is kind of a continuation but getting a bit poppier, still not poppy though

then heres where it changes a bit, their first LP Sweet X-Rated Nothings, which mixed their melodic death/doom/gothic influences with romantic pop influences, most of the lyrics being about relationships and stuff, very poppy but still quite heavy and sometimes brutal album

then we get a major shift on "Twinaleblood", this albums like a mix of grunge, hard rock and some pop punk, cool thing is that theres still some death/doom influences, some growls and some doom riffs here and there

then a REALLY major shift on everything after that, totally dropping all metal influene from their music and turning dance/pop rock/pop music

then their last album sounds like a Blink 182 album
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2ndComing
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:07 pm 
 

Oxenkiller wrote:
The reason is, that band is unique in that not only has their style shifted dramatically since thier inception, but the entire line-up has been overturned, not once but twice! By the end of 1987, not one original founding member was left in the band, but by 1995 not one member of that 1987 lineup was still in the band. This has always intrigued me about Napalm Death- especially how the later versions of the group were able to continue using the name.


I find it humorous that, after the whirlwind of changes in the 80s, the biggest post-80s line-up change was Jesse Pintado leaving after a 16 year stint. They've an unusually stable line-up all things considered for the past 20 years.
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MaDTransilvanian
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:31 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
MIDDLE PERIOD - PURE POWER METAL
Albums: Theater of Salvation, Mandrake, The Metal Opera 1 and 2

Now, here he started to really get a taste for the theatrical and the overblown. On Theater of Salvation he introduced a host of majestic choirs and a new, sleek production job, as well as some real epic songs like the jaw-dropping title track and "Land of the Miracle," which had never been seen on an Edguy album before. It wasn't a great album, with too many songs that just didn't stack up to the better ones, but it was good, and set the stage for future releases. Mandrake streamlined that sound and tightened up the loose ends, making Edguy's best album up until that point, with big hooks and heavy guitars galore. It was a great mixture of 90s Helloween and a pinch of Stratovarius here and there.

Avantasia, his notorious side project, busted out two albums bookending Mandrake, the Metal Operas, which are very, very well received worldwide. Featuring multiple vocalists of esteemed calibre, the albums were flawed by simplistic songwriting and too many forgettable tracks and interludes, although a few moments of glory like...well, like "The Glory of Rome," "Sign of the Cross" and "Reach Out for the Light" remained. It seemed like Tobias had over-reached himself here, creating an ambitious concept that he just wasn't mature enough to tackle yet.


The only full album I have from this period is Theater of Salvation and I have to say I agree with your take on it. I'd probably consider it a bit higher in my book given my personal attachement to it (first Edguy album first PM album, all that) but yeah it's imperfect and a "sign of a more mature future in this direction" type album. The random tracks I've heard from the other releases from this period tend to confirm that idea as well.

Empyreal wrote:
LATE PERIOD - HEAVY METAL/HARD ROCK PERIOD
Albums: Hellfire Club, Rocket Ride, Tinnitus Sanctus, The Wicked Trilogy of Avantasia

I struggled with exactly how to classify these, as the newest Avantasia albums jump all over the map, and can't just be classified as "Heavy Metal/Hard Rock"...but alas.

Hellfire Club and Rocket Ride showed the band sounding more comfortable and fun-loving than ever before. Tobias seemed to be going through a phase of really goofy shit, as we got a ton of stuff like "Lavatory Love Machine," "Superheroes," "Rise of the Morning Glory," etc. amongst the more serious work like "The Piper Never Dies" and "Under the Moon." I enjoyed the humorous stuff well enough, but it really didn't show his full potential as a songwriter...but then, why not have a little fun? You only live once, right? Both albums were creative and fun, offering a variety of songwriting modes and a ton of energy.

The Scarecrow was a new kind of beast entirely, with people labeling it a sell out, calling it commercial and light and all of that...but really, what is selling out about this? It's an honest work, and although I can see some problems with it now that I didn't see in 2008, like some songs just not cooking as hard as they could have, it's still a really good album, and the variety between songs really works.

Tinnitus Sanctus is...okay, I'm going to draw a lot of polarizing opinions here, but it's the best Edguy album to date; still is. It isn't perfect, but I just can't see any of the other ones the same way anymore. It just kicks ass. The songwriting is tight and memorable, the hooks gloriously constructed and the whole thing just really, really enjoyable. It showed that Edguy were still a serious band and that they still had a ton of creative fire left over. What will they do next? Hell, I don't even think Tobias knows.

Angel of Babylon and The Wicked Symphony are both very good albums on their own, and together they make for a hell of a lot of great songs. I have to say The Wicked Symphony is a better album overall, but I really like Angel of Babylon, too. I like the more fragmented storytelling bites, I like the energy...eh, just wait for my full review.


I like this era a lot too. I might not love Tinnitus Sanctus quite as much (I absolutely fell for Ministry of Saints when I first heard it, as well as a couple other songs, but they kind of seemed more boring as time went on. Superheroes (EP) is just amazigly fun.
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MaDTransilvanian
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:55 pm 
 

Oxenkiller wrote:
I would love to see someone do this with Napalm Death. (I dont have the time right now, nor am I as familiar with their really new stuff, plus I just did one for another band, etc.)


That Onslaught text was very good. Don't worry about not having the time now, this thread is (hopefully) not going anywhere anytime soon.
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Whackooyzero
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:43 pm 
 

Visionary wrote:
Whackooyzero wrote:
How is Savatage power metal at all? When I hear Sirens, I hear raw, dirty, awesome speed metal, nothing power at all. And Hall Of The Mountain King is basically the same but a bit more varied. Seriously what is power metal about their sound?


USPM is quite different from what a lot of power metal sounds like today such as Dark Moor and Sonata Arctica. USPM is clsoely related to thrash and speed and there can be numerous overlaps. I have only heard Hall of the Mountain King but I find it comfortably fits under USPM.


I know that. I'm not one of those people who thinks Euro power is the only power. I just honestly don't hear much USPM in Savatage's sound at any point.

And Empyreal, you know I really wasn't expecting you to go for Tinnitus Sanctus as the best Edguy album but I can kind of see what you're saying. It is pretty well composed, but I don't it just sounds overdone to me. The sound just doesn't seem particularly confident and from my point of view Mandrake is still the reigning king of Edguy albums followed probably by VGO. The new Avantasia albums are great, but it's hard to say if they are better then the Metal Operas IMO, even though they are more consistent I don't know if the overall highlights are as good(but there really are a lot of amazing tracks on there, Runaway Train, Death Is Just A Feeling, Stargazers, and States Of matter are my favorites at the moment).
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MaDTransilvanian
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:33 pm 
 

Whackooyzero wrote:
It is pretty well composed, but I don't it just sounds overdone to me. The sound just doesn't seem particularly confident and from my point of view Mandrake is still the reigning king of Edguy albums followed probably by VGO.


TS still beats Rocket Ride (which had some fun stuff but the consistency factor was an all-time low). I should get around to getting other early and mid-era albums apart from my Theater of Salvation. It's just that Edguy is never the band I think of when I feel the need and/or opportunity to buy some more music.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:28 pm 
 

Rocket Ride was just kind of sloppy. I still find it a lot of fun and the creativity is there in full; the band was just having more fun than usual. It's not their best album but it can get addictive if you play it in the right mood. In fact I feel like listening to it now. God dammit.

And I hear the most confidence in TS than in any other Edguy album. These songs will be classics with the band's fans once a few years pass. They have a very distinctive, cool feel to them, are memorable as fuck and also short enough to contain themes and motifs that stick in your head right before the next song introduces different ones. It takes what was good about older Edguy and distills it, makes it more mature and fun.

New Avantasias are awesome. The title track on Angel of Babylon initially sold me on them, and it still holds up as pretty much my favorite song on both, although both albums do different things so well that it's hard to tell. The Wicked Symphony is actually really dark and depressing if you follow the lyrical storyline.
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MaDTransilvanian
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:57 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Rocket Ride was just kind of sloppy. I still find it a lot of fun and the creativity is there in full; the band was just having more fun than usual. It's not their best album but it can get addictive if you play it in the right mood. In fact I feel like listening to it now. God dammit.

And I hear the most confidence in TS than in any other Edguy album. These songs will be classics with the band's fans once a few years pass. They have a very distinctive, cool feel to them, are memorable as fuck and also short enough to contain themes and motifs that stick in your head right before the next song introduces different ones. It takes what was good about older Edguy and distills it, makes it more mature and fun.

New Avantasias are awesome. The title track on Angel of Babylon initially sold me on them, and it still holds up as pretty much my favorite song on both, although both albums do different things so well that it's hard to tell. The Wicked Symphony is actually really dark and depressing if you follow the lyrical storyline.


This whole conversation makes me wanna get back into Edguy. It's sort of been an on-off affair for the last 4-5 years or so, I never really understood why. I should get some Avantasia albums, but the one I heard (The Scarecrow) mixed some incredibly fun and well-written songs with some boring shitty stuff. It's kind of discouraging.
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:59 pm 
 

I never found anything in The Scarecrow outright shitty, although age has revealed a few songs that could have been more exciting. I still think it deserves a good rating due to the variety on display and how well it all connects together though.
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LegendMaker
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:39 pm 
 

@Empyreal: No mention of 'The Savage Poetry' in your Edguy overview?! I consider it the highest point of their whole career, and it's so very different from 'Savage Poetry' that I think it deserves mention on its own. Just my two cents (well, I strongly disagree with several of your points, but it's more our personal preferences differing than anything else).

@MaDTransilvanian: I've been meaning to ask you this eversince this thread started, and I guess you sort of answered with your comment on the W.A.S.P. overview, but still:

Is it okay for you if someone submits another overview of a band's that's already been done in this thread?

Provided it's sufficiently different or more complete, of course. For instance, Whackooyzero's overview of Helloween's career isn't outright bad or false, but it's really short and I feel it doesn't address some crucial aspects of their evolution. I guess if someone just strongly disagrees with an overview on some accounts, it'd be best to either comment on it, or even just let it go. I have a very different opinion of Edguy's evolution in terms of songwriting quality than Empyreal's, but I don't feel it'd be very interesting to do a counter-overview, since he got the rest right overall. Anyways, let me know what you think/prefer.

Also, nice thread, people!
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Empyreal
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:43 pm 
 

I probably should have put it in there, but I figured just listing its original version would be enough. It's a good album, like the other early Edguy albums, but not my favorite. Solid all around though.
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Whackooyzero
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:59 pm 
 

It's hard to say whether The Savage Poetry should be listed seperately then Savage Poetry. Yeah it is quite different but the songs are the same. I mean, would you count DB's rerecording of Stormblast as a seperate album? I guess you could but it's kind of like a greatest hits to me.

Anyways, off to edit the Helloween post. Just not really detailed enough.
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MaDTransilvanian
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:59 pm 
 

LegendMaker wrote:
@MaDTransilvanian: I've been meaning to ask you this eversince this thread started, and I guess you sort of answered with your comment on the W.A.S.P. overview, but still:

Is it okay for you if someone submits another overview of a band's that's already been done in this thread?

Provided it's sufficiently different or more complete, of course. For instance, Whackooyzero's overview of Helloween's career isn't outright bad or false, but it's really short and I feel it doesn't address some crucial aspects of their evolution. I guess if someone just strongly disagrees with an overview on some accounts, it'd be best to either comment on it, or even just let it go. I have a very different opinion of Edguy's evolution in terms of songwriting quality than Empyreal's, but I don't feel it'd be very interesting to do a counter-overview, since he got the rest right overall. Anyways, let me know what you think/prefer.

Also, nice thread, people!


Yeah, if you feel like doing another one of a band that's already been mentioned, go right ahead. Making a more profound/detailed overview is certainly a very good thing and making one because you disagree with somebody else's on the same band, well, this is metal discussion, of course it's encouraged :). So yeah, go right ahead and write about any band you feel like.
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LegendMaker
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:00 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
I probably should have put it in there, but I figured just listing its original version would be enough. It's a good album, like the other early Edguy albums, but not my favorite. Solid all around though.

That's the thing, to me the re-recorded version is their best album, while I'd rate the original version much lower than at least three other albums of theirs (four if I count the re-recorded version itself). The original had the same brilliant songs on it, but it was little more than a demo, with very poor musicianship, arrangements and production values, which really wasted that potential. The remake has the best of both worlds: some of their best compositions, only with top-notch arrangements, tweaks, hooks, musicianship and production this time around. I actually wish they gave the same treatment to 'Kingdom of Disguise' too.

Just to be clear, you did listen to both versions, right? It seems a little odd that you still consider it the same album after doing so. They're strikingly different.
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