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DeathFog
Temporally-Displaced Fossil

Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 9:20 am
Posts: 2022
Location: Estonia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:44 pm 
 

Has anyone used L1/2/3 and their variations by Waves ? What are some tips, recommendations ?
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rexxz
Retired

Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:45 pm
Posts: 8769
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:15 pm 
 

You mean the Ultra Maximizer plugs? I have them all. They function the same as high end brick wall limiters, used to get maximum loudness from your tracks. They can be used to good effect but be careful to not kill your dynamics.

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DeathFog
Temporally-Displaced Fossil

Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 9:20 am
Posts: 2022
Location: Estonia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:46 pm 
 

Yes I do mean Ultramaximizer . Is the effect of this plugin in some way similar to compressor ?
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rexxz
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:54 pm 
 

Pretty much yes, it is a dynamics effect. Though these "maximizers", "analog warmers", "enhancers", etc. are all essentially the same thing. They are high performance (good quality) limiters built with one thing in mind; to get the most loudness out of your track. They can be useful if you don't abuse them. I'd avoid running it too hot in any circumstance.

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unclevladistav
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:33 pm
Posts: 1317
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:25 pm 
 

I believe this is a mixing question, so I'll ask here. I'm looking for a particular effect- reverb I think. It was used heavily on DOOM: VS' "Aeturnum Vale". The effect I'm thinking of was consistently applied to spoken/clean vocals, giving them a hollow, empty sort of sound. Anyone know what this is/where I can find it?

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rexxz
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:46 pm 
 

Sounds like reverb. I haven't heard the album in question but from your description I am certain.

There are very, very many types of reverb plugins and hardware units... tons of free ones too. Almost any DAW you use will have them built in, too.

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unclevladistav
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:33 pm
Posts: 1317
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:57 pm 
 

Thanks, at least now I'm more sure of exactly what I'm looking for.

Here is a song in which it is used, around 1:30, then again at 2:00.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC_GEyb7DgY

thanks!

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rexxz
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:32 pm 
 

Yeah, that's some heavy verb and EQ going on there.

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Menschenfeindlic
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:05 am
Posts: 256
Location: Syria
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:59 am 
 

so just to be clear...if I have "muddy" guitar track ... then it just needs some equalization to make it clear?
and when should I use compression with guitar tracks?

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Ross_Diablos
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:32 am
Posts: 16
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:58 am 
 

Great post, thanks for the tips! Especially the tips on eqing in the first post.

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geetarguy
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:04 pm
Posts: 8
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:16 am 
 

Menschenfeindlic wrote:
so just to be clear...if I have "muddy" guitar track ... then it just needs some equalization to make it clear?
and when should I use compression with guitar tracks?


I'm new here, but I do some AE work, both for my band as well as others.

I'd hesitate to say that simple EQ tweaks can make a bad guitar tone sound good, it's all dependant on so many factors.

Also, I'd be hard pressed to outright recommend compressing guitar tracks as a means to "fix" them.

If you are playing high gain metal as it is, that high gain tone is already compressed coming out of the amp, actually probably way more than you'd use in mixing. Sometimes parallel compression can help bring life to dull guitar tracks, but even then it's not an "always the case" scenario.

IMO, all of the tips on here are subjective and open to interpretation. There are some general rules of thumb I suppose, but each AE will have their own way to achieve the same goal.

Good luck!

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rexxz
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:44 pm 
 

Ross_Diablos wrote:
Great post, thanks for the tips! Especially the tips on eqing in the first post.


np ;)

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rexxz
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:46 pm 
 

geetarguy wrote:
IMO, all of the tips on here are subjective and open to interpretation. There are some general rules of thumb I suppose, but each AE will have their own way to achieve the same goal.

Good luck!


Not quite all of them are subjective, there are lots of fundamentals such as gain staging and transient masking that really need to have some attention paid to get right.

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Menschenfeindlic
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:05 am
Posts: 256
Location: Syria
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:36 pm 
 

@ geetarguy
thanx alot man....
I just was messing around to get used to recording because i want to record some stuff with my band in the near future..
so I was recording guitar tracks with my computer and then modify them with Adobe Audition(I think it's good program)...
and since guitar is mid range instrument ,i should focus on increasing them if the sound is muddy?? correct me if I'm wrong

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Masked_Jackal
Metalhead

Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 9:06 am
Posts: 647
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:17 pm 
 

Menschenfeindlic wrote:
@ geetarguy
thanx alot man....
I just was messing around to get used to recording because i want to record some stuff with my band in the near future..
so I was recording guitar tracks with my computer and then modify them with Adobe Audition(I think it's good program)...
and since guitar is mid range instrument ,i should focus on increasing them if the sound is muddy?? correct me if I'm wrong
"Muddiness" usually refers to the mids/low-mids on the frequency spectrum. If anything you want to lower that area to clear it up and make the guitar more coherent-sounding. Read the part of the first post on Equalization that talks about Subtractive EQing.

A good analogy for subtractive EQing:

Lets say you are a sculptor with a huge block of stone that you want to turn into something, like a dude blowing some other dude or whatever the hell art you see in museums now.

To make this sculpture would you add more stone to the block? No, you would crack away at the block to form the final product.

This is the same deal with EQing. You don't want to add volume to something when you EQ it, you want to cut out the parts that sound bad.

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rexxz
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:29 pm 
 

Masked_Jackal wrote:
This is the same deal with EQing. You don't want to add volume to something when you EQ it, you want to cut out the parts that sound bad.



Nah, that's not really a hard and fast rule but usually this is the case when you're trying to improve upon the clarity of the mix. Tonal shaping is a very important thing for an engineer/producer to understand, and we do this with a variety of tools. You'd want to use additive equalization just as much as your subtractive.

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Masked_Jackal
Metalhead

Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 9:06 am
Posts: 647
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:37 pm 
 

rexxz wrote:
Masked_Jackal wrote:
This is the same deal with EQing. You don't want to add volume to something when you EQ it, you want to cut out the parts that sound bad.



Nah, that's not really a hard and fast rule but usually this is the case when you're trying to improve upon the clarity of the mix. Tonal shaping is a very important thing for an engineer/producer to understand, and we do this with a variety of tools. You'd want to use additive equalization just as much as your subtractive.
Gah, you're right, that did come off a bit like "You should only do it this way"-type thing.

Usually when I have a muddy guitar I'll use a parametric EQ to cut out any weirdness going on and occasionally drop a Hi-pass on it then use a different EQ to give it color, if needed.

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geetarguy
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:04 pm
Posts: 8
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:42 am 
 

Personally, I think EQ can be a great thing, but if the source material (i.e. what was actually recorded) is poor, there's only so much "turd polishing" you can do.

Also, what you may consider mud, others may not, so without hearing what the tone sounds like, it's tough to recommend any techniques to fit.

That said, what I think is usually the problem areas in guitar tracks, and a mix in general is the low mids, say 180-300Hz area (someone else already mentioned this as well).

What I do sometimes (and I learned this from dudes like Andy Sneap) is to use a multi-band compressor to tighten up the low mids....So, you are not EQ'ing per se, but compressing just that low mid area.

if you're not familiar with multiband compression, all it is is a compressor that only compresses certain frequencies. Most are divided into 4 or 5 bands and each band compresses only the frequencies within that band. So, you could set it up to compress only the stuff between 180 and 300Hz, as an example.

Doing this, IMO, can help keep the weight and thickness of the tone intact, but allows a bit more tightness to be achieved.

Also, the 400Hz area is the area that provides definition to the guitar tone, so a slight boost there with a narrow Q can define the tone a bit.

As always, YMMV.

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mrmot
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:47 pm
Posts: 56
Location: Bosnia and Herzegovina
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:07 pm 
 

does anyone use Kristal?

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Menschenfeindlic
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:05 am
Posts: 256
Location: Syria
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:15 am 
 

another question :D ..
I'm having trouble making the final mix sound fit together...
i can't make the guitar and other instruments(drums and synthesis in my case) sound like one song that has an atmosphere...
I tried some EQ(ing) ...it sounded better but not what I'm looking for
so any tips??
____
edit :
forget about this,it appeared that the guitars were recorded poorly.
a new record solved the problem.


Last edited by Menschenfeindlic on Thu May 07, 2009 7:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Alcohol
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:26 am
Posts: 17
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2009 11:55 am 
 

Hi guys.
Can anyone rate my production? (Not the song, but the actual production).

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=CR3P1SB4

thanks. i noticed that it sounded like it was saturated in a weird chorus or flange effect, but then noticed that when i listened to the faceless straight after same deal, so could be my headphones.

but yeah, mix comments = nice plz thx <3

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Alsandair
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:00 pm
Posts: 568
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 3:15 pm 
 

Good stuff guys. Thanks for posting all this.

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Menschenfeindlic
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:05 am
Posts: 256
Location: Syria
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 7:36 am 
 

@Alcohol
good quality,is this home recording?
and about the production here is what i think:
-the drums is too powerful (personally,it cause a headache for me,but it's a matter of taste )
-the rhythm guitar in the second part is DEAD,I can only hear bass from it,maybe rise the treble a bit.
-the melodic guitar part is also dead,it lacks definition.
so maybe you just need to rise the guitars volume and lower the drums a bite.
hope this helped you.

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Alsandair
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:00 pm
Posts: 568
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 12:27 am 
 

The thing I am still struggling the most with is getting a good bass drum sound. Granted I am using a cheap CAD bass drum mic. I have applied filters and whatnot, but can't quite seem to get that punch that you hear in most metal records, it's more muffled.

Any other tips for tinkering with the bass drum?

Thanks.

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Menschenfeindlic
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:05 am
Posts: 256
Location: Syria
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 9:39 am 
 

I've never dealt with real drums,but it shouldn't be so different from beatcraft.
first make sure you're drums are tuned.
and the rest is done by using eq and maybe compressor.
if the sound is muffled, try to reduce the mids
and add some boost in 60~80hz(some times in 120hz)
to get the kick sound boost 6~8khz
reduce 1-2 kHz to add the punch
the eq is much experimental thing,but maybe this will give idea what to do
check the mic position it has great effect on the sound

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Alsandair
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:00 pm
Posts: 568
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 9:46 am 
 

Cool. Thanks for the tips!

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mattp
Veteran

Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 9:57 pm
Posts: 2910
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 12:31 am 
 

Alsandair wrote:
The thing I am still struggling the most with is getting a good bass drum sound. Granted I am using a cheap CAD bass drum mic. I have applied filters and whatnot, but can't quite seem to get that punch that you hear in most metal records, it's more muffled.

Any other tips for tinkering with the bass drum?

Thanks.


Just replace it with a good sample, that's what 90% of metal albums do.
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Alsandair
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Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 2:00 pm
Posts: 568
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:26 pm 
 

But that would compromise my morals... I'm partially kidding, and I have a decent enough sound now I think. I suppose if I become desperate I'll consider sampling.

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JoshShark
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:50 am
Posts: 6
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:08 am 
 

Great post! I'm a pretty much an amateur at this stuff, but every thing that was mentioned (minus the chart about the curve) I understood perfectly!

Thanks so much! I was always having trouble with muddiness and the master track being too quiet.

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HaZarD96
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:12 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:38 pm 
 

Hi All !

I perform my steps in mixing recording & performing some metal music by myself & my band - also i`m searching for some solutions in this problem i`ve got right now

I`m not contented with mix that i obtain by myself

Can someone recommend me a teacher i can learn remotely ( i am at PC & working at Steinberg Nuendo 3 ( Cubase )) & some REAL good sound engineers which work directly with metal bands & have enough ready examples & mixed bands. Job of - mixing, re-amp tracking, mastering the material ( as a payable job for them ) also remotely?

Best Regards
HaZarD96

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mattp
Veteran

Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 9:57 pm
Posts: 2910
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:21 pm 
 

The best way to get good cheap guitar recording is to get a decent Firewire or USB interface, and plug direct in there. Then use these free plugins: ReaGate ( to kill noise when not playing ) into BTE Tubescreamer Secret ( to boost the amp, settings: Drive 0 Tone 10 Level 10 ), into either Nick Crow's Wagner Sharp MkII, 8505, 7170, or LePou's SoloC. Finally, add Voxengo Boogex and a cabinet impulse of your choice ( Catharsis Awesometime Fredman impulses are some of the best out there ).

The only thing you pay for is the interface, everything else is free. If you want effects, such as delay, flanger, chorus, phaser, etc.. Kjaerhus Audio makes a great set of free plugins called the Classic series that work perfectly for this application.

You can get some SERIOUSLY good tone with this set up. It's almost good enough for me to ditch outboard guitar gear entirely.
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HaZarD96
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:12 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:22 am 
 

ye it is.. just several days ago `ve opened for myself crows stuff.. realy good for digital protcessing.. also can give 1 receipt - amplitube xgear - and there combine screamer & 6505 .. not bad sound for comp

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Mutant_X
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:02 pm
Posts: 1
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:38 pm 
 

Hey, does anyone know what is good equipment to do a home recording

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HaZarD96
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:12 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:47 am 
 

that depends of what reasult u want of all this and thy finances

- it `ll be comp with good cpu & ram & hdd but low videocard + 1 or 2 big displays
sound card - if cash `s low - old Motu - 324 or 424 chiped with 2408 console
if cash ok - higher Motu
condensastor mic , dynamic mic ( dynamic is better 421 senh imho )
it is minimal charge
some soft & some other stuff if it is needed
1 jf most important - is that thy room is good sound muted
& the great thing is monitors - there are many ways , and better is several pares of different , but is cash low u can keep only yamaha ns10.. they are chip and often used in good studios with some other much more cool speakers

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Tyrantzd
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:27 am
Posts: 43
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:18 am 
 

hello!I am total noob at mixing/mastering and my black metal band is going to record a demo soon(home production) so I'm wondering could I learn to master/mix in about 1 month.Also if you have some links for noobs or tips please post it..tnx

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HaZarD96
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:12 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Russia
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:05 pm 
 

to study good mixing in 1 month is not possible... it take years & depends of your info & ears and hardware charge
it is not only a mechanical process

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mattp
Veteran

Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 9:57 pm
Posts: 2910
PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:40 pm 
 

Tyrantzd wrote:
hello!I am total noob at mixing/mastering and my black metal band is going to record a demo soon(home production) so I'm wondering could I learn to master/mix in about 1 month.Also if you have some links for noobs or tips please post it..tnx


If you want them mixed, send them to me and I'll take a shot at it.
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unclevladistav
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:33 pm
Posts: 1317
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:12 pm 
 

Having a bit of Reaper trouble right when I decide to sit down and get the mixing done. Everything was recorded/primarily mixed on a different laptop, then moved to mine. We had used a few effects before, which were not on my computer:
Track 2: DX: Sonic Foundry Graphic EQ
Track 4: DX: Sonic Foundry Reverb
Track 4: DX: Sonic Foundry Simple Delay

I was just emailed the files from the other laptop, so now I have the effects. How do you get them into reaper? I put them all in any place I could think ok- plug ins, effects, reaper's general folder. I even made a brand new folder for them, then set Reaper's plug in directory there, but it just won't pick them up.

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Wahnsinn
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:44 pm
Posts: 149
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:06 am 
 

Sup babes!

Releasing a self-produced album soon. Need / would like opinions on this mix from everyone!

P.S. please don't critique the song, it's "heavy" but I don't expect many "tr00" metalheads to enjoy it ;) just the mix.

http://www.newgrounds.com/audio/listen/276264
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crazpete
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2004 12:49 am
Posts: 546
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:05 pm 
 

Wahnsinn wrote:
Need / would like opinions on this mix from everyone


Overall it sounds good - if you were going for the 'modern melodic metal post-At The Gates Gotenburg' sound, you pretty much got it. Everything sounds very clean...a little too clean. I'm assuming this is MIDI drums and guitar software or a POD?

The overall drum sound is very 'mid-scooped' sounding (lots of bass and treble, not much mids) which is nice but perhaps back off a bit on the highs and bring in a bit more mid. It's very common to want that 'disco smile' EQ curve on everything individually...but when you put it all together it lacks cohesion and definition. What most people call 'tone' is usually defined by the midrange.

The guitar sound is very close to what you're going for. Perhaps re-amping the clean signal through a small practice amp and mic-ing that in a bathroom, then doubling up that re-amped guitar track with the super-processed beefy sound you already have will add a bit more grit and character to the processed sound it has while still retaining the punch and percussive power you're obviously going for with this style of music.

The second guitar playing the effect that comes in at 0:41 needs more volume - it gets buried in the mix a bit.

The guitar solo at 1:05 sounds like it might want a bit of reverb - sounds a bit dry and thin right now. Or for a more classic stlye try harmonizing that part.

Again, overall this is sounding very clean and very good - just a bit more work and you're there. Also I noticed a bit of distortion which I assume is the MP3 codec not liking your hot levels...make sure your limiter on your master buss is set to -0.3 to play it safe.

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