I stumbled across this website while surfing the web.

http://www.metalheadsagainstracism.org/indexe.html

Take a look at it and post your thoughts.

I laugh at the thought of it. It just doesn't fit right with a heavy metal attitude. The best part of the website is the hate mail that is sent in. Some of it is really, REALLY funny so I suggest you read it. Overall I think it is a pretty lame website with an unwinnable cause.

The whole concept is ridiculous, "ZOMG WE'RE METALHEADS AND NON RACIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Okay, we don't care about either of these things!

It is a stupid and pointless site/organization/alliance or whatever, but I don't see how denouncing racism is being "un-metal" in any way.

"It just doesn't fit right with a heavy metal attitude."

Being a metalhead doesen't mean you hate everything and anything and thinks that justice is for pussies.

The concept however, is stupid.

This is one of the things that's just ridiculous and that I couldn't care less about contributing to. It sounds like a little enclave of faggots who think they're "making the world a better place" by writing their names on a list on a stupid website, instead of actually DOING ANYTHING about the percieved problem. It's downright pathetic.

"OMG we're making a difference now and denouncing those scary nazis"

You know what I say to that?

I say !

It's just a stupid fucking website. I don't give a shit if racist people listen to metal. They're trying to get racists to leave the metal scene. It's a futile goal. Honestly I don't care if I see racists at a metal show. They have nothing against me because I'm white. If I were black or something like that then I'd probably care. But as it is now I don't see a problem with it especially seeing as though metal is a form of music where you can be free to express yourself. It's better to let out your rage through music then to actually go do the shit in real life.

This is an example of an entity that is rather plentiful on the internet; the pointless organization. These shrill creatures flourish in the environment of chirping idiots that makes up the majority of the internet. While they may be noisy, they are largely harmless as no matter how much noise they make they never make any real changes.

We have one of our own right here on the forum in the form of the anti-folk metal brigade.

Ah, I didn't read that point. It is stupid, yes.

Just better to leave out what you don't sympathize with and refrain from supporting it. And if you get shit from someone in the pit due to your skin colour or something like that, I bet there are people that would gladly beat the shit out of them.

This part in the FAQ made me literally laugh out loud:



If you truly love metal, it's certain that you'll abandon it if enough people are against your ideology. The whole site is a joke.

I take promoting the fight against racism as a good thing, but I fail to see what this website does beyond providing some uninformative information. If this website offered some more information and methods of actively promoting anti-racism, sure, I'd lend my support.

What shits me is the "metal is from blues which is black music, therefore metal is black people's music."

Yet metal is a predominantly white interpretation (obviously, there are proven exceptions) that has steered far, far away from its blues "roots" as to not even bear similarities in some cases (black metal).

Really, the whole site is ludicrous. Paranoid lefties? No, not paranoid, just sprouting the same PC bullshit that everybody else does. I'm no racist but damn, both sides of politics manage to display a fantastic ability to be completely retarded.

You're white, so racism doesn't bother you? Great attitude.

Dumb website though.

I think he meant that he doesn't get abused racially.

Why should it bother him?

What a stupid website .

Metal is just like any other genre of music; it's a form of personal expression. If the racist music bothers you then simply stop listening to it, simple as that.

Racism sucks and all but still, what are you going to do about it. Unless they're actually attacking you personally, there really isn't any reason to get up in arms about it. Metal doesn't adhere to any such ideologies, and it's open to pretty much anybody anyway.

Looks like someones never heard of black metal.

I really don't support racism at all,but neither do I support the right to censor Metal in any way shape or form,look at all the varying themes/views that have been expressed within the genre,people can say whatever they fucking want and still make great music which is one of the reasons this genre of music is so great,it's interesting how people turn a blind eye until it is they who are the ones confronted,this is EXACTLY why religious groups don't really give a fuck about anti-religious themes in music anymore,they simply ignore it,which is what Metal fans need to learn,if you don't aggree with something then just ignore/don't support it

gonna really "bottom line" it over here;

i am a metalhead, i am against racism
i don't need to belong to a group that states that "metalheads against racism"
but i support THEM, not "metalheads who ARE racist"

well put;)

You can't force people to not like certain music just as you can't force them to like something. As others have said, a futile laughable effort.

Also, this is on the same rock bottom level as joining facebook groups in support of some social issue or other, participating in the 'Causes' application, or 'donating' your status to whatever. It's purely masturbatory--'hey, look, I CARE!!!! I'm very much anti-racism but I don't have to shout it from the rooftops to prove it--I just treat everyone with the same level respect I'd expect someone to treat me with. I don't need to yak about it or prove anything to anyone as my actions reflect my thoughts on the matter better than a pointless website.


edit: Oh, and, 'it doesn't fit in with the heavy metal attitude'--give me a break. Quit trying to attach some 'i dun give a fuk' attitude to metal, it just makes us all look like barely literate brutes. Same goes for whoever said that being white means that racism doesn't matter. I realize you've probably lived in a nice safe little bubble all your life but please reevaluate your way of thinking.

Cause ignoring Hitler made him go away, right?

Even then, it seems like they aren't advocating anything beyond just not supporting racist bands and people anyway.


This is pretty much how I'm seeing it.

point taken,i have struggled with/racist themes within some of my favourite music,I personally hate it but what can be done,in this case(racism).It Keeps popping up,time and time again,let me refrain,I HATE RACISM,but too all those who feel hurt and confronted by it,namely our friends of colour,what else can be done,apart from to try and ignore

I would call myself a racist, as something hard-wired just like everyone else than something I chose. With numerous friends of a non-Anglo-white background and divergent political belief, it's not easy. I'm not going to kick the shit out of a person on the street based on his race, nor do I have any political affiliations. I also don't think that the problem is to do with the fact that anti-racism organisations exist within metal specifically. I do think refusing to acknowledge unpleasant realities is a bit effeminate though.



Agreed. The site is blatantly run by partisan pricks who think they speak for the majority of metal fans and want metal music erased of beliefs that fundamentally disagree with their own.



See this is the funny thing. They think of things as a distinct "metal" and "racist" crowd. When in fact, it's never been a matter of neo-nazi skinheads turning up at gigs (though such phenomena does occur), rather some metalheads have more racist opinions than others and some put it into action. Leftists aren't capable of distinguishing between belief and affiliation/crowd. They don't consider that just about anyone can be racist. If anything, we can see something more distinct in these anti-racist organisations. Whilst I know plenty of metalheads who hate racism and would join groups like that, those groups themselves seem to be run by the self-righteous grindcore/hardcore/crust crowd for the most part.

Racism, as in a preference for one's own race over others, is natural. It's inbuilt as a survival strategy. I don't think fully blown National Socialism is the logical conclusion but I can see why some people (e.g. NSBM bands) think so. Having said that, I don't really support ideologies that forego rational enquiry and true knowledge in the name of it's ideals.

What I see Metalheads Against Racism doing is not just campaigning against any rare cases of racial violence at metal gigs (or involving the metal subculture in some way) but the "wrong" opinion. And their three tenets are testimony to that.



Well, this is debatable either way. I'm not here to support the interests of racialist ideologies and I don't believe one race should rightfully subjugate another, but human beings are at the very least, incredibly divergent in their physical traits. Now, given what advantages and disadvantages those give rise to, does it not sound very head-in-the-sand to assume that after all that, we could still be equal in nature? Of course, this is detrimental to globalist interests so I'd better make my way to Room 101.

Notice also from such statements that they tend to be their aim to believe those things, not something they came to the conclusion to. My view about race is just something I have inferred from observation, not something I wanted to believe and tried to cherrypick/twist truths to support.



One culture crossing the path of another might be natural (where we share the same ecosystem), but multicultural societies certainly are unnatural and detrimental, to me. Did those ancient cultures thrive on openly espousing multiculturalism, pluralism and fatalism?

What's concerning me more though is, are they saying that one is racist if they say multiculturalism is unnatural/dangeous? It is evil to preserve all true cultures, to believe in ethno-cultural self-determination and to believe that culture is a more positive means of running society than emotional abstractions and moral fantasies?

Multiculturalism seems to serve a lack of consensus and community spirit and/or a blurring of tradition in the name of consumerism and centralisation (but don't tell lefties this, it offends their supposed anti-globalist sensibilities). Believing this is NOT the same thing as scapegoating ethnic minorities for social problems.



Since when did these guys become representatives for the metal scene as a whole? Who put them in charge? I tell you what I'm not gonna allow, and that's for any moral police to determine what kind of discourse isn't acceptable.

I think a better mantra for any Metalheads Against Racism organisation would be "We will not allow the political views of one sub-set of metal fans to be detrimental to the ability of any other group within the wider metal scene to enjoy metal concerts and social gatherings." This would be a much more reasonable, libertarian stance.

I'm totally against racism, but the amount of political correctness on that site makes me sick.

Eh, dumb website. I can kind of understand what they are coming from, but this group is the kind of thing that has only the purpose to give its members the feeling that they have done something to support their cause, while in reality, they haven't. It's not like joining groups is going to make rasicm go away, it's only going to make them fell better about themselves.


Actually, they did. They just don't stay multicultural forever, they usually merge at some point and form a new culture or one culture get assimilated by the other. At least that how most of today's nations originated, it's a pretty natural process.

I'm against racism as a person and this has nothing to do with Metal.

NeglectedField's answer basically described how I feel in a much more complex way than I would have taken the time to write for such a pointless and asinine website/group.

A shame, really.


Speaking of?


And you seem unable to distinguish between leftists.


Post proof, or I'm going to call what you said sorry bullshit. Especially since you're going on about not supporting irrational ideologies.


Certainly we're not the same. That's a no-brainer. Why you should make inferences from physical traits toward other areas of equality or non-equality, and how you would support such inferences, that I can't fathom.


Rome did. It was not without its share of racism and contempt, but the Mediterranean under the Roman Empire was a functioning multicultural society for hundreds of years; numerous religions, cultures and skin colors coexisted without problems in the city of Rome. Had the emperors favored one culture over the other in their governing of the empire, they would have produced a mess too big for them to handle.


What "emotional abstractions" and "moral fantasies"? You seem to think that non-abstract emotion must always be monocultural, that is, xenophobic. How that explains inter-cultural love relationships, I don't know. And would you include among "moral fantasies" such unrealistic fantastical things as equality before the law regardless of culture? I agree, equality before the law is an abstraction, but it is not a fantasy. On the other hand, is "ethno-cultural self-determination" less of an abstraction and fantasy?

And what the hell is a "true culture"? If you're after true Anglo-Saxon culture, go build yourself a time machine that can carry you back before the time of the Normans, before the Renaissance, before Colonialism. Then, how could culture be used to run a society? Societies can't be run. Some totalitarian ideologists have tried, but they have failed. Societies normally run themselves. You must mean "running a state". Now, how do I run a state based on culture without deporting or forcefully assimilating or destroying those who don't fit into the state's view of that culture?


Where is the consensus and community spirit between boss and employee in a purely Anglo company? Between banker and debtor? You don't think you might have more shared interests with a Pakistani co-employee than with an Eton educated manager? This mythical consensus and community spirit that's going to happen once your culture is pure (where are the limits of pure, by the way?) did not even exist in "pure" Anglo-Saxon times, or what did they need laws for: law of contract, criminal law?

And I couldn't care less for tradition. Tradition has absolutely no value in itself. It's just a roadblock on the way of rational assessment.

Anyway, what this Metalheads Against Racism organization does is trying to fight racism. That's great in my opinion. They're doing it in an unapt fashion, but at least they don't leave the battleground to the racists.

I would be, in the general public, labeled as anti-racist. However, I think that racism itself is a useless term, because it promotes the very idea it is trying to denounce. There are not any races - sure, there are cultures, ethnicities, etc - but there is only one race, and that is human.

Being anti-racist means that you are against discrimination based upon race, but there is only the human race. It's rather counter-intuitive to its own goals.



Thus, while I in theory support the general aim of this site, I wouldn't take it word for word as gospel or anything silly like that. And I certainly don't believe that all people are born equal - everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses, and their own potential in life. But it's not an equal existence we are in - someone born with a mental or physical disability (for example) isn't equal to a "normal" person, and likewise the range of "normal" is so broad that there are millions of shades of potential in life.

Anyways, just my views here. I think that website's goals are, in summary, rather whimsical and under-developed.

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Now playing: Blind Guardian - Time Stands Still (At the Iron Hill)
via FoxyTunes

I think that's the most important thing; it isn't really even about what specific ideology or anti-ideology is being promoted. The problem is that it's an "active" effort to reimpose moral standards on metal, when metal has long thrived on its freedom from any such restrictions. Metal as a medium is an excellent tool for dealing with dangerous themes, and it's impossible to keep undesirables from using it as such. All they can really hope to do is drive the undesirables out of the mainstream of the scene, and guess what: racists aren't all that welcome in the mainstream metal scene anyway. But the underground has long since been a haven for artists of any ideological persuasion, no matter how dangerous or eccentric or utopian or counter-productive or unacceptable by a given society's mainstream standards: this is one of the scene's greatest strengths and I question the need to fight it.

My suggestion would be that instead of fighting racism in an art form, they should try to fight racism in real life.

I hate to tell you this, but you are wrong. You are confusing the term "race" with the term "species", when they are in fact different things. This is a very common mistake though, and I don't really blame you for it.

Allow me to clarify the diffewrence between the two though. There are several different races in a species. Among humans, this is not as apparent as with other animals, so I'm gonna use dogs to clarify what I mean.

These two dogs (taken from googling "dog") are different races, but still part of the same species:



Likewise, these humans (taken from googling "man" and "nigger" respectively after "caucasian" and "black" turned up nothing interesting) are different races, yet still human:



My point being, that saying that all the races within the human species are the same is bullshit, no matter how you look at it. It's the same as saying that all dogs are the same, even if the differences are greater.

For example, I believe that research should be done to find out how different races are different biologically, since I've already read research suggesting that people of different race respond differently to certain medical treatments. It's not something that should be dismissed.

The differences are few, but they do exist. Denying that is foolish. I don't see how any of them could be considered inherently superior to the others though, as evolution adapts the genes to compensate for the living conditions of the lifeforms they control.

@ Greysnow: To save having to tediously select/delete text to neaten up quoting I’m replying in this manner.

Re: Unpleasant realities – I was referring to the fact that inter-cultural conflict exists. It’s not something that I wish was the case nor am I saying cultures naturally hate eachother.

Re: Racial preference – http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/01/07/ra ... index.html
We are all more racist subconsciously, as this study shows. To reject racism is a conscious decision, and some people of course will have more of a racist subconscious than others.

Re: Distinguishing between leftists – I hope it was clear the manner of leftist I was on about here. I am talking about those who subscribe to full-on social constructivism and egalitarianism. The more mainstream mould of leftist if you like. Not Stalinists or anything like that.

Re: Rome as an example of multiculturalism – You’re right, however, although their dominion stretched far and wide, there were areas of distinct culture. What I find abhorrent is diluting all cultures (i.e. what is unique to certain people) in favour of a conformist monoculture.

Re: Emotional abstractions – I was referring to the notion that we can all join hands and live in peace and harmony. Whilst I don’t think peace and harmony are bad virtues; where coexistence works I believe it’s a good thing, but looking at things holistically, I think life seems to be this selfish struggle where people favour in-group interests. However, what that in-group is (e.g. “Anglo-Saxon” or “British” or “European” for example as to how one might cut the pie).

Re: Ethno-cultural self-determination - I don’t think of “ethno-cultural self-determination” as an abstraction, because as you imply, some peoples are assimilated/diluted or die out (I’m not making an anti-miscegenation argument btw). I think self-determination favours relativism in the face of one-size-fits-all values (e.g. “do things our way or else, because we’re ENLIGHTENED!!!!”)

Re: True culture – I found your “Anglo-Saxon” references a knee-jerk, and I’m interested to know where you came to the conclusion that I was striving for Anglo-Saxon cultural or ethnic purity. Basically when I meant true culture I was referring to any culture that has some semblance of tradition in it i.e. any culture before the age of globalist consumerism. I would hope that a variety of leftists would click with that to some degree. I can’t remember making any claim for racial purification and I think you were being presumptuous there. You were right in that groups like the NSDAP failed because of their unrealistic goals.

Re: Consensus – I was not saying this was racially based, but culturally based. Basically a community or organisation (regardless of its racial makeup) has to have a set of values which everyone adheres to. Bring another culture into that equation and you have to compromise your values and behaviours to accommodate for all encompassed cultures or force one to compromise in favour of the other, right? The rhetorical question is: how much compromise can you have before it’s detrimental to the workings of the organisation or community? When people begin to identify with eachother less, this is when we have social breakdown. It didn’t really help that you were using extreme examples and presuming I was on about ‘purity’.

Re: Tradition – Tradition is a word that only has emotional meaning at best. However, because people cannot agree as to what is ‘right’ then it is best they separate into societies where they can operate under their own value systems. Try forcing “progressive” ideology on Islamic societies. It’s insulting – true tolerance is respecting that difference. However, some people do agree and have values that converge sufficiently, hence historical examples of cultural assimilation. But equally natural to me is people wanting to establish their cultural space where they can operate under their own culture's value-systems. Wanting to preserve their lineage might not seem ‘objectively’ justifiable but we have no right to interfere with that. And I’m not even necessarily referring to an Anglo-Saxon or even European culture. A lot of cultures in the third world are being threatened by business interests.





Indeed. As I was trying to say, make sure that ethnic minorities at shows aren't getting harassed or rejected at shows based on their ethnic background and things like that, but controlling the arts is a totalitarian move, no?

Was not Rome also the archetype of Imperialism though? In order to truly realize a multicultural society, you basically have to subjugate all existing pure cultures (I use this term to describe already existing cultures formed spontaneously) within your immediate area. Sure, there's always the less violent path of economic warfare via exportation of fractional reserve banking and disproportionate trade, and also through propaganda under the guise of media/education, but some will still reject the multicultural model and rebel against it, so force needs to be an option, and Rome used it very well.



What you are describing is precisely how America destroyed most Native American culture, as well as Southern Anglo-Saxon Protestant culture, and to a lesser extent Mormon culture. This was done under the reasoning of a cultural "melting pot", though you maybe could suggest that this was white bigotry in the case of the Indians (though this would not cover Southern and Mormon culture of course) or Christian hatred of heathens (many Indians who were forced onto the Trail of Tears were Christian converts or were actually born into Christianity through converted parents). This was all done in the name of unity, albeit deriving from a statist model, which is the only way to truly enact any sort of unified national system involuntarily. Multiculturalism may come across as some form of benign sense of unity, but it's actual function tends to favor centralized power, oppression, as well as the globalist system of trade that most leftist constantly complain about yet are unwilling to put an end to due to the cognitive dissonance they are stuck in.

On-Topic: I listen to a couple bands that are on this site, I don't personally hold any racist views, but I absolutely despise the concept of trying to censor/regulate art forms. I view the sort of racial statist systems advocated by various right-wing groups as anti-Libertarian, but the problem is that leftist groups propagating similar messages to this website are equally as anti-Libertarian. There is no way to enact either of these modes of thought without eventually picking up a gun and killing each other. The best course of action is to enjoy your own life and stay out of the business of people you will likely never meet or talk to in person.

what a useless , ignorant waste-of time website. I'm tempted to send some hatemail to them.

Why should I even waste my time by even acknowledging something that doesn't exist? Race doesn't exist. I am, however, insanely against racism. It's just another mindless form of collectivism.

The concept of the website is stupid, fighting against racism only affirms its position in our society. You can't possibly hope to change a bigots mind simply because some people who listen to Iron Maiden made a website about it.

The website may seem dumb, but let people do what they wish. If this guy strongly believes in what he's saying, then leave him do it. I'd rather see stuff like this on the internet than some bullcrap ns-metal related site. That's just real cliche to see on the net, but an anti-racism site? That's something different.

I'm not going to subscribe to any anti-racism agenda unless I start to see a good number of organizations formed by non-whites that are committed to the same cause. Are there black organizations that are telling other black people to stop hating Asians, or Hispanics, or Jews? Are there Arab organizations that are telling Arabs to stop hating Jews or whites?

Fuck it. I'll keep listening to Temnozor, and I'll enjoy it.