MA says you guys are from Amherst. I happen to be from Springfield and attend school at UMass Amherst. How often do you guys play locally?

Thanks dude! I think it's an honor getting lumped in with FBF, Gama Bomb and MW (though that last one happens less often). These are THE best of the new guys (minus Violator and a few others), regardless of subject matter. FBF in particular are amazing- or they were with their first album. They're moving a bit more towards the dull evil L.A. sound these days, but they're still damned good. I don't think they've done a beer song, but they're certainly at the forefront of the KILL POSERS thing. We've got no real interest in drunken party poser-murder, but the fun goofy aspect of 80's thrash is really appealing to us. That and zombies, which as you point out is a lot of why we get piled into the drunken party poser-murder category. The album title was something of a mistake, but ehh fuck it.

Changes for the future are going to be less silly shit and a bit more emphasis on serious thrashing in themes that aren't really thrash stand-bys. Stands-by? Is that it? I dunno. It's kinda too late, there's one song that's just about in the can that's another 80's action movie reference. Oh well.


Oh, we don't. As I'm sure you know there's little to no thrash interest around here so we keep it to studios and the web, which is fine with us. Good to know there's at least one thrasher around, though.

Shit dude, throw in more goofy shit. I was only saying to stay away from food and alcohol, haha. Other than that, it's open field. I was also saying, I really like Gama Bomb, Fueled By Fire, Municipal Waste (I don't like them, haha,) but their lyrical perspectives is generally why they get labeled in this "to-avoid alcohol poser pizza thrash metal". Like I said, I know you guys don't really talk about that shit at all, but I think it's the sarcastic overtones present on some of the album, oftentimes gets generalized and you ended up getting lumped with this bands concerning the lyrical content.

I am hoping that this whole super specific thrash dissection is really only existent with the internet community and not really part of a mass scene revolt in the real world.

The goofy lyrics allow for comedic relief and I don't find them all that silly anyways. Just keep the focus on the music itself which is what you guys are already doing. Keep up the good work LK


Yeah I only see this sort of criticism online, its non existent outside of the internet afaik. The thing is, the ones who are the most vocal in lashing out at LK's new album happen to enjoy black metal a little too much. Just look at their other band reviews or band additions, and you'll see that 90% of their reviews are on black metal, and other sub genres however LK's album will be their only thrash review... They come off sounding butt hurt, and you can tell because the only justification they have for giving the album a low rating is because the lyrics are 'silly', or not original, or don't take their music seriously.... that whole argument is bollocks.

Municipal Waste played The Waterfront in Holyoke sometime last year, and apparently they drew a fairly large crowd.

I feel like you guys could probably get some kind of local following by freeloading off of the local hardcore bands. Granted, most of it is of the crappy Hatebreed tough-guy variety, but there are some decent more punk-based groups around (Cockpunch!, for instance).

I was reading Invoked's review (the 1%) and his whole argument was essentially based off of 'Black Metal Sucks', which, as any person who takes more than two seconds to think about that song will realize that it was written as fast as possible, and a glowing example of pure stupid sarcasm that was intentional.

http://metal-archives.com/review.php?id=212983

How is a lack of originality not a valid reason for criticizing a work?

Well because they are false claims, not even justified, just thrown out there on the internet to get back at LK for the black metal sucks song.

And thrash metal is almost always unoriginal anyway. If you're a thrash fan, you look for kickass riffs, regardless of the level of originality.

And what if other bands had made much better riffs several decades ago?

Also, that thrash is almsot always unoriginal is a pretty silly claim. Obviously the vast majority of bands will be unoriginal, but that applies to other genres as well. Good thrash isn't almost always unoriginal.

Yeah, the reviewer (wrong word used here?) had no intentions of listening to the entire album to give honest score. Obviously he just wanted to lower the score drastically because of how he disliked 'black metal sucks'. This is apparent through his constant discussion of the song throughout his whole review...

Completely agree



I don't think better necessarily means more original... though, maybe I am alone in this thinking....


In all honesty though, in terms of Lich King, I haven't heard a single second of the music (though I am definitely intrigued), but if the music is good, I can't see hating/disliking them based on their image/lyrics. Sure, I hardly pay any attention to lyrics, but if the music fucking rocks, why would I need to...?

He discusses the song for about 6 sentences.


Obviously not, but doing it several decades ago certainly makes it more original.

Kruel is correct that I only assessed the song briefly, because it stuck out as an example of pure awfulness. If you're a band that even takes your craft even 1% (hah) seriously, then you will not put songs that you know are crappy and rushed on an album. Your attack is cute, but I did in fact listen to the entire album 3 times (some songs more than that), and it really blends together after a while to the point where it's hardly worth pointing out individual songs. Is it really so hard to believe that I thought the music was just extremely unspectacular? Lick King and their devotees have been praising this stuff as the "greatest music EVAR" so much that maybe they almost believe it. As a general thing, I don't think metal should be a platform for Dane Cook jokes (I'm trying to capture their level of humor here) set to music.

That being said, if the mods think the review sucks, which they may, I'm sure they'll get rid of it. At least then the whining will end.

I'm starting to believe that you're not very good at catching sarcasm. Lich King's whole deal with the "Greatest Band Alive" is obviously a drop of sarcasm and just a way to stand out from the pack. They don't honestly believe they are the best band ever (thought I'm sure every musician would like to think their band is the best,) and they're not shitting down other bands throat as if it's an act of supremacy. They're a generally high-energy, fun band... who do things a little bit differently.

Also, we don't want your one-dimensional review taken down, we were simply discussing it. And let's make it clear, Thudburg was the one who accused you of only listened to 'Black Metal Sucks'.

Yeah, it's schtick.

I'm the first to admit that the song's weak, and that I'm embarrassed that it was the "breakout hit" when the real meat is in the other songs (Office Politics being my favorite). Since this started, I've heard more than once that a little band called Black Sabbath put a filler song on their second album. That song was Paranoid.

I don't get the idea that a rushed filler song takes away from the rest of the songs and our credibility. We had 9 songs, we just wanted one more to round out the list and threw it together for a gag. And hey, don't I even get points for acknowledging the song was rushed filler?

Not at all. What you're taking flak for is that the review is heavily biased and spite-based. Thinking the music is unspectacular is a long way from rating it 1% and trying to paint it as a collection of the worst, least-inspired riffs ever put down. Claiming it's obviously grasping at the apron-strings of BBB and failing in every way. These are lies. If you were honest, it'd maybe get a 30% or similarly reasonable number, and wouldn't abuse hyperbole to this extent. "This is the absolute definition of failure, in every possible aspect." "'Unoriginal' doesn't even begin to describe this, several riffs sound as if they were lifted from Bonded by Blood with little or no effort to modify them in any way." What's with that lifted riff thing, by the way? Geez.

While I'm going through the review for great quotes, let me point out a few things.

"Fuck, their name is lifted from a fantasy game that features trolls, dragons, and warlocks." Not true at all. I created the name in about 2003, then years later heard about the fucking Warcraft guy. I was not happy. Honest mistake on your part though.

LK and Municipal Waste being "VH1 Metal." This baffles me. I've been using the term "VH1 metal" for years, myself, and this usage is akin to applying words like "sentimental" or "creamy" to a car bumper.

"Like many bands of the modern thrash 'revivalist' movement, Lich King pride themselves on their complete and strict adherence to the typical mid-80's American thrash style. Theirs is a scene populated by kids that go to local gigs all wearing jeans, baseball caps with the bill folded up, and of course denim vests bearing an assortment of obscure thrash patches." I'm pretty sickened by that myself, but I can get how you'd dismiss us among the new thrash for that. The kids that swear you need to adhere to the denim vest, tight black jeans and high-tops thing and worry about whomever is true and not, these people bug the shit out of me. I have short hair and am a t-shirt and jeans person. I don't own a denim vest or any hats. I own patches, only because because they come in CD promos. They're sitting in a pile beside my monitor. The point is that you've accused us of following trends or style based on visual image that's not important to the music, which we do NOT do, while... hey, who's this adorable lil' fella? It's you.



Stop it, you're scaring me.

It's funny if you consider that photo with this sentiment:

Heyyyy... it ALMOST looks from that that you decided to write a negative review because you were upset by the song. http://metal-archives.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=46359


The mods seem fine with it, but then the mods (or at least rexxz, I don't know the others) are not my biggest fans around here. That's fine, but let's not pretend it's not lying based on spite. It's well-written, I'll give you that. High marks for spelling and grammar. Maybe that's all the mods require.

So. I'm sorry the song got to you, and I'm sorry that a goofy gag song had to turn into real enmity in the metal community. For fuck's sake, can't you guys laugh about anything? You're like a special interest group. We're angry! This is offensive! Humorless umbrage!

Good album. Doesn't seem forced the way that most of the revival thrash does. While Black Metal Sucks may be a bit of a weak song I find it fun. Surely you knew what would happen with it though.

My only complaint is the production. There is a lot of clipping on some songs.

I want to hear the next album. Don't get too serious on it.

If you have headphones of decent quality, the clipping shouldn't happen. The songs only clip when I listen to em on my cellphone speaker.

Clipping is an artifact of the production. Higher quality speakers do not solve the problem.

The production sucks, it's no mystery. The funny part is when people like Invoked assume it's intentional to recapture that 80's thing.

Hmm, I've always come across an annoying clipping sound on a crappy headphone. Maybe I've confused clipping with some other thing?

Clipping caused by production and distortion caused by shitty headphones can sound similar but they have different root causes.

You could try comparing the CD version and Guitar Hero version of Death Magnetic on decent speakers. The distortion present on the cd version is caused by clipping. You could also watch the scope visualization on the windows player. You will be able to see when the clipping occurs (tip of the wave is clipped off) so you can tell what it sounds like.

I don't know anything about you as a person, but I don't appreciate the narcissistic schtick you've got going on (I don't know if you've given up on it or what, but you haven't done it recently). As I've mentioned in the past, you can claim that it's just your sense of humor or whatever, it doesn't mean that anyone is to magically accept it and laugh along just because you point out that it's supposed to be 'funny' (nor does it mean that I don't 'get it', either; I do get it. I just think it sucks).

Other than that I have no problems with you. Regarding the review, I will maintain that it's perfectly acceptable. I told you that the numerical score is of very little consequence, so you shouldn't even complain about that in the first place. We don't censor any form of opinion here as long as they are presented in a well-written, well-formatted and thoughtful manner (amongst other things).

I just can't understand the praise this band gets. I can't say I'd be into the whole retro thrash movement anyway, but at least bands like Violator know how to write memorable riffs. There's just not much positive to say about Lich King. The riffs are generic and unoriginal (don't even try to tell me that isn't a negative thing), and because the band themselves – or at least user Lich_King in this thread – claims that they just play thrash because they love it instead of trying to be a part of the retro thrash trend, I can't help but compare them to some of the classic thrash bands from the 80's and early 90's, and it that comparison Lich King doesn't stand a chance. Why on earth would I listen to this when the same thing has been done earlier and better by hundreds of bands? I think invoked's review was pretty spot on for the most part, especially this sentence:


That's exactly what it is. In their early days bands like Exodus, Slayer, Metallica etc. all wanted to be faster, heavier and more extreme than other bands. They wanted to break boundaries and make people's heads explode. When I listen to Lich King, I hear no ambition or true passion. I just hear a band that wants to "play thrash" and "have some fun".

Don't even get me started on the retarded humour. The "Black Metal Sucks" song doesn't really bother me, because I don't think black metal can be insulted in any way by someone who doesn't have a clue about the whole genre, but it sure as hell comes off as a childish and cheesy joke that has been done before too many times without losing any of its retardedness. When it comes to bands like Evildead, Razor or even Anthrax or S.O.D., humour itself doesn't bother me. It's just that I find Lich King's humour predictable and pretentious. "Silly" lyrics about thrashing? Check. Songs with "funny" and or over-long titles? Check. "We're the best band in the world" attitude? Check. And then there is of course the "Rambo/Darth Vader/Hulk Hogan" thing. I don't know if you actually find it funny, but I see it just as a really bad attempt in trying to be "silly".

I really don't get the whole "lyrics don't matter in thrash" thing either. Anyone who likes Darkness Descends knows that statement is pure horse shit. Even if you didn't have anything interesting to say, you could still at least try.

It is the purpose of every "revivalist" band to be regressive instead of genre-defining. And just because of the conflicting natures of the original thrash bands and the newer ones (not to mention their conflicting motives.. most new thrash bands just want to have a good time, like Lich King. bands like Slayer, Metallica etc, like you just said, wanted to be faster than each other, better than each other etc.) it's unwise to compare them.

I agree that a lot of the riffs in the new Lich King album sound like they were just lifted from BbB (again, that's expected because 1.) the band doesn't give two shits about originality and 2.) Bonded by Blood was a huge influence on the band), but I don't agree that the riffs are COMPLETELY unoriginal, and they are definitely not bad. They make me bang my head, and therefore I like them. I'm not a raving Lich King fanboy, but the band aren't as bad as people like invoked make them out to be. If I was to review TZO, I'd give it maybe 65-75%.



Would you still enjoy Darkness Descends if the lyrics were about gay hair metal-ish topics?

Fuck, it should be illegal even to imagine this.

And that's the reason why I'm not into the whole revival thing in general. Some newer bands still manage to play decent thrash, but Lich King isn't special even compared to other thrash revival bands. Sauron's Thrash Assault is a good example of "retro" thrash that's still quite original. Somehow they even manage to write lyrics about The Lord of the Rings and thrashing in general without losing any of their "evilness" or whatever.


Yes, but it would definitely lose some of its appeal.

I'd like it even if the album was renamed to "Ponies Descend" and had song titles like "The Burning of the Farm". Hell, maybe the charm of the album would be increased. An album about horses and ponies that's brutal

This. Even if Lich King weren't exceedily boring and unfunny, I'd still have a bad taste in my mouth regarding them simply because of how their representative here presents himself.

Oh, and by the way, you claim you came up with the name in 2003, right? Warcraft 3 came out a year before that.

To be fair, I would not criticize his choice of name in the sense that he 'ripped it off' from Warcraft. Those two words "Lich" and "King" far pre-date Warcraft, and even when used together. Lots of old fantasy fiction have used Lich Kings as adversaries.

I know. But the way he worded that he was "pissed off" sounded like he resented them for stealing his name.

Hundreds? Come on, maybe a couple dozen. I think you're viewing the old days through rose-colored glasses. There's a big drop-off after the handful of classic bands. I'll agree that no one in the new wave is doing it as well as the best of the old. A few have come close.

Blech. Faster and heavier? The boundaries have been found, and beyond them it's not really thrash anymore. Thrash is pretty well-defined these days... there's not much room for pioneering. I'm not sure how much of this I've stated already in this thread, so forgive me. There's a set of boundaries, and the passion is for trying to mine the few remaining great thrash riffs, which- if you'll pardon me- I think we've done an all right job of.


Yeah, I had it all wrong.

Well, it's not going to work for everyone.


Darkness Descends... for fuck's sake. Maybe they had lyrics, but did they have riffs? I do not get how everyone holds that up as a thrash classic. It's not bad, at best. Baffling.

Anyway. Maybe it's the "finland" thing. I've never come across a finnish band or metal fan that I could agree with. They seem to hold an entirely separate set of values from me with what makes "good metal," and that's all right.


Hey dummy: I didn't say I came up with it first, I said I came up with it and heard about the WoW character years later.


WHOA THERE HOSS. Originality's important. In style, I mean sure, we're ripping off the old shit. In riffs and songwriting though, there's always the drive to come up with something fresh. I'll be the first to admit that it's hard as hell in thrash with the walls so close together, and we don't always succeed, but we TRY.

I just set myself up for lots of "well you fail." Go ahead, hit me.

No, well you're defending your points rather well. Much better than what I would have expected a month or two ago. I think if you stay away from your previous internet 'persona' (I don't know a more suitable term) and more like this, you'll have some new-found respect from those who've previously detracted that from you, myself included.

Here on this forum at least we don't really censor or hate on (from the management's perspective anyway) people unless they are representing themselves in a juvenile or really poor fashion. So far I've read your counterpoints and I can't say that I really disagree with them.

Personally, the music doesn't do much for me but that's neither here nor there. I think the lyrics are a bit dumb too but I also don't take it personally. Musically there's nothing wrong with your band to my ears, but since I don't regularly listen to a lot thrash in the first place I won't be very judgemental in this regard.

Otherwise I totally agree with you about the boundaries of thrash metal and how it's nearly impossible to innovate musically within the genre. I think it's a poor criticism to speak of the originality of a band in a negative light. My band isn't very original in it's own right, and I readily admit this. Instead, I'd look more to the quality of the music within the context of what's being plaid. How good are the riffs, the dynamics of the songs, the vocals, the lyrics? Does this shit make you want to 'thrash' or do you just sit there wanting to play something else?

There's also extra-musical factors to be considered, which is what invoked's review touched on the most. As a rule these are generally poor reviews because they don't focus much on the music, but I found that his review did talk about the music sufficiently in addition to his other rants (which I found to be valid opinions, even if they were displayed in a hyperbolic manner. But then again, we don't censor due to hyperbole, take a look at how many 100% reviews there are here and get back to me on your sentiment regarding the whole 1% being bad deal).

I had personally accused Merciless Death of being unoriginal, but what I was getting at was a lack of inspiration and a total lack of quality of music. Thrash metal has a very specific set of rules for what can be considered thrash metal and what cannot be. The problem is, if you start fucking too much with those boundaries, your music starts to morph into either a hybrid of thrash metal and another subgenre, or something different entirely.

As far as I am concerned when concerning thrash metal, is one simple thing: high energy and diversity in terms of riffing and music. Toxic Zombie Onslaught displays an impressive knack for [Lich King to] being able to writing interesting and extremely dynamic songs, that while stand awesome on their own, work as a cohesive and dynamic unit when concerning the album as a whole. I think this is Lich King's strongest point. And that point is so strong simply because of the insanely kinetic and energetic approach to thrash metal that they stand for.

This is why I constantly refer back to Vio-Lence as a point of reference for Lich King's music. Vio-Lence is incredibly interesting as they show extremely energetic approach. Not one instrument is ever not doing something interesting to add something to the music that adds to the overall package. Also, both of the bands have something in common: They both have quirky and goofy humor. Apparently nobody had a problem with Vio-Lence's first go-around back in the late 80s, and people seem to feel different about Lich King.

As far as I am concerned, Lich King work best when their quirky humor is applied to their music. This is not to say that the more serious songs on the album are crap, (Cold Steel happens to be my favorite track on the whole album, simply because of the last parts which are just icing on the cake.) Some people are going to get it. Some people are not going to understand it. Some people are going to get it, but not like it. Lich King's humor comes from not only the lyrical content, but also in the crazy all-over-the-place vocals. It works for Lich King. My humor is big, dumb and goofy similarly to the way Lich King handles humor.

For me, it's cohesive.

Just curious, but is this a 1-member project? It's well done but not my cup of tea (and i'm a huge thrash head), sounds like a cross between Vio-lence and M.O.D. to my ears. Great album cover though.

The other guys ask me that all the time.

...and dude... M.O.D.?? Eww.

I was 100% sure it was a one-man band, with "Lich_King" playing all the instruments. He denied it pretty vehemently on the thrashunlimited forums though. Even going so far as to talk about how his drummer was angry at the "entire internet" for thinking the drums were programmed, which I always thought was entertaining. I never thought the drums sounded programmed though, it just always sound like a one-man home project kind of deal to me.

The nicknames and not playing live make me think that. And it sounds like the 1-member bands you hear alot of these days (thats not an insult, just common with music these days).

And the vocals sound kinda like late-Billy Milano But yeh I can hear the Vio-lence influence.

People probably think that because there are no photos of the band and there are no actual names listed.

From the Lich King I've heard, it's actually not that bad. It's not the greatest thing ever, but I don't think it sucks. I don't really think there's anything wrong with a band just wanting to have fun.

On a related note, I think coming up with original thrash riffs would be quite difficult.