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PhantomOTO
Exterminator 666 Does Not Answer

Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 8:19 am
Posts: 3242
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:57 pm 
 

rexxz's point was that "gay" meaning "homosexual" was not always the case and simply came to be as slang. He's pointing out that words can acquire new meanings that do not reflect the original definition and that using "gay" to deride something does not mean that it has "homosexual" qualities, but is rather a new usage of the word.

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rexxz
Retired

Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:45 pm
Posts: 8615
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:57 pm 
 

PhantomOTO wrote:
rexxz's point was that "gay" meaning "homosexual" was not always the case and simply came to be as slang. He's pointing out that words can acquire new meanings that do not reflect the original definition and that using "gay" to deride something does not mean that it has "homosexual" qualities, but is rather a new usage of the word.


Nailed it.

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Lyrici17
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:20 am
Posts: 1322
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:00 am 
 

rexxz wrote:
Lyrici17 wrote:
Ah, but see the difference is that gay meaning homosexual is no longer slang - gay meaning bad is. Just because something is amongst popular slang doesn't mean that it's not ignorant. There was once a very popular slang word for black people, that doesn't justify its use.


"Gay" to mean homosexual is just as ignorant as gay to mean bad.


Please explain how this is true.
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rexxz
Retired

Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:45 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:01 am 
 

Already answered that.

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Lyrici17
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 3:20 am
Posts: 1322
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 12:13 am 
 

While it is inarguable that words can develop new meanings, I don't understand how you can put equal weight into a word that is slang and a word that is not slang.

Maybe I am underestimating the accuracy of slang.


Let me ask you a question rexxz; I will accept your answer as honest, as I have no reason to think you would do so otherwise:

Do you really think that gay becoming slang meaning bad is not rooted in people's negativity towards homosexuality?
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hells_unicorn
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:32 pm
Posts: 2240
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 1:25 am 
 

Lyrici17 wrote:
orionmetalhead wrote:
hells_unicorn wrote:
Add a few gripes on my end about all the people bitching about words like gay/retarded being horrible, and this is basically my view on political correctness as it exists here in America. I prefer to be respectful and polite where practical, but white people are white, black people are black, end of story.
Great minds think alike. I didn't even think about those two words. Yeah, Tack that on too.



My issue with words like gay and retarded is that they're mostly used as synonyms for bad. For example: "Man, the new Cryptopsy is so gay". In that instance what is the person saying? They're saying the album isn't good. It is poor word choice; it is ignorant word choice. Maybe you disagree, but that's essentially the same as saying "that's so chinese", etc. Just because sexual orientation and disability haven't reached the prejudice-radar like race and gender have doesn't mean that those words are OK to use.


While I'm personally not sporting a swastika, ghost sheets, or consider myself much of a misogynist I'm getting sort of tired of all the whining about racial slurs and sexism also. I think that might be part of the reason why every time I turn on South Park I find myself laughing my ass off every time they do some joke pertaining to either race or gender. I can understand people really getting worried when the KKK is having a parade, but I think trying to publicly crucifying someone like Ralph Nader because he makes a historic analogy to Uncle Tom in regards to Barack Obama's corporate friendly economic policy is making a mockery out of the whole concept of racial justice, let alone all of the other overreactions that occur when someone says something taboo out of either momentary frustration or while making a wider point about something else.
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orionmetalhead
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 1:41 am 
 

I dont see any problem with calling a weak metal album gay. It is implying it lacks balls and or is too happy / cheerful to be an effective metal release.
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DrommerOmDod
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:40 am
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:39 am 
 

orionmetalhead wrote:
I dont see any problem with calling a weak metal album gay. It is implying it lacks balls and or is too happy / cheerful to be an effective metal release.


I can understand your point, but I don't think it's right at all. At this point it's merely an unconscious, applying "gay" to anything we don't like, but I believe in this sense it originated from general dislike of homosexuals, and thus has nothing to do with a release being "too happy".
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T51b
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:35 pm
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:44 am 
 

DrommerOmDod wrote:
orionmetalhead wrote:
I dont see any problem with calling a weak metal album gay. It is implying it lacks balls and or is too happy / cheerful to be an effective metal release.


I can understand your point, but I don't think it's right at all. At this point it's merely an unconscious, applying "gay" to anything we don't like, but I believe in this sense it originated from general dislike of homosexuals, and thus has nothing to do with a release being "too happy".


I fail to see why I should stop using it because it offends a bunch of pillow biters. Not trying to be funny I am honestly asking why I should not be allowed to say "This is gay" without being marked by some as a bigoted.

Homosexuals and Lesbians who are offended over the use of gay as slang for something bad really need to suck it up and grow a pair.

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DrommerOmDod
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Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:40 am
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:47 am 
 

T51b wrote:
I fail to see why I should stop using it because it offends a bunch of pillow biters. Not trying to be funny I am honestly asking why I should not be allowed to say "This is gay" without being marked by some as a bigoted.


I never said you should stop saying it, but this is a whole new argument for another time.
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SharpAndSlender, on the Big Four Tour wrote:
The last good album released by ANY of those bands is like bare minimum two decades back. This is a loud version of Antiques Roadshow.
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T51b
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:35 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:54 am 
 

DrommerOmDod wrote:
T51b wrote:
I fail to see why I should stop using it because it offends a bunch of pillow biters. Not trying to be funny I am honestly asking why I should not be allowed to say "This is gay" without being marked by some as a bigoted.


I never said you should stop saying it, but this is a whole new argument for another time.


It was not addressed to you in particular.

Maybe because I am a white straight male of middle classish standing I do not find slurs offensive or even really used against me that much? I just do not see the harm in simple words no matter how they are used against you.

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DrommerOmDod
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 2:57 am 
 

Granted, it's much harder to be offended by such things as a white, straight male, but I can't deny I feel at least a twinge of annoyance on the rare occasion a black refers to something they don't like as "so white".
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SharpAndSlender, on the Big Four Tour wrote:
The last good album released by ANY of those bands is like bare minimum two decades back. This is a loud version of Antiques Roadshow.
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Noobbot
Mors_Gloria + Thesaurus

Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:48 pm
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 7:11 pm 
 

Earthcubed wrote:
Noobbot wrote:

After 9/11, one idiotic philosophy was replaced with yet another - racial separatism with heightened nationalism (or 'patriotism'). In my opinion, bigotry and racial separatism, along with nationalism and other devisive ideals, help to keep the proletariat suppressed, making the masses consenting to tyranny easily and succumb to coercion in this division. Preference and subjectivity obscures philosophy and objectivity with a myriad of disgusting sentiments. Everyone in the lower tiers points the finger of blame at one another, at the bottom, obviously, rather than toward the top as they should be. Problems in this nation are seen as causal of socialists or conservatives, blacks or whites, et cetera, but never tyranny, trivial societal fissures (the divisions aforementioned), religion, and a coercive monopoly called the state.



The trend of associating nationalism with only negative things like jingoism or bigotry needs to stop. You know what happens to a state with no sense of nationalism? The Democratic Republic of the Congo.


Why? Nations are the result of geographic coercive monopolies called states. Anything that makes one feel bonded to something as oppressive and wrongheaded can hardly be correct or rational. What little good arises from nationalism, if any truly does, can easily be replaced with a realistic form of societal bonding not based on erroneous concepts of reality.

hells_unicorn wrote:
rexxz wrote:
Or Sweden.


I don't know, with all these Viking metal bands around, I think nationalism is pretty important to them, it just probably doesn't manifest itself in the political way that most categorize nations of late. But if anyone actually thinks that all of the clashing cultures in America can be unified into some sort of melting pot as Noobbot seems to have suggested, they may be in for a rude awakening.


For clarification, I was addressing the conflicts that arise from the myriad of differences between people. By no means do I seek a homogenous populous; only one which doesn't use ideological and physical differences as fodder for belligerence amongst itself.

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ThisIsWhereHeKills
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:44 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Norway
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:06 pm 
 

hells_unicorn wrote:
rexxz wrote:
Nah, I think that's just a very small minority.


It's a pity, Vikings are a lot more fun than socialists, although I don't know if I'd want to have to fend off Norse plunderers like my ancestors probably did a dozen or so centuries ago. :lol:


Socialists? Please do elaborate. I'm curious.

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Viral
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:04 am
Posts: 1890
PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:35 pm 
 

DrommerOmDod wrote:
Granted, it's much harder to be offended by such things as a white, straight male, but I can't deny I feel at least a twinge of annoyance on the rare occasion a black refers to something they don't like as "so white".

In most cases, ignorant blacks who refer to something as "so white" are usually trying to express their disdain for anything that's not "black".

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hells_unicorn
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:32 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:35 pm 
 

ThisIsWhereHeKills wrote:
hells_unicorn wrote:
rexxz wrote:
Nah, I think that's just a very small minority.


It's a pity, Vikings are a lot more fun than socialists, although I don't know if I'd want to have to fend off Norse plunderers like my ancestors probably did a dozen or so centuries ago. :lol:


Socialists? Please do elaborate. I'm curious.


Very well. While I'm certain that most Scandinavians don't regard their systems of government as Socialistic in the pure sense because of the mixture of free enterprise, essentially just about every in Europe, North and South America, and elsewhere have a socialist lean in their government. Personally I don't see this as a good thing, but opinions vary. This wasn't so much an intentional snub at people living in your region, although it could potentially be interpreted that way, but more of just a bad joke reflecting my general boredom with the whole political correctness concept. Normally when I make jokes about governments I stick to either America's or England's.
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Noobbot
Mors_Gloria + Thesaurus

Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:48 pm
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:37 pm 
 

hells_unicorn wrote:
ThisIsWhereHeKills wrote:
hells_unicorn wrote:
rexxz wrote:
Nah, I think that's just a very small minority.


It's a pity, Vikings are a lot more fun than socialists, although I don't know if I'd want to have to fend off Norse plunderers like my ancestors probably did a dozen or so centuries ago. :lol:


Socialists? Please do elaborate. I'm curious.


Very well. While I'm certain that most Scandinavians don't regard their systems of government as Socialistic in the pure sense because of the mixture of free enterprise, essentially just about every in Europe, North and South America, and elsewhere have a socialist lean in their government. Personally I don't see this as a good thing, but opinions vary. This wasn't so much an intentional snub at people living in your region, although it could potentially be interpreted that way, but more of just a bad joke reflecting my general boredom with the whole political correctness concept. Normally when I make jokes about governments I stick to either America's or England's.


Does not every state capitalist society gravitate toward socialism?

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NeglectedField
Onwards to Camulodunum!

Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:19 am
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 8:50 pm 
 

My PC threshhold is about average. It depends on the company. Generally my restraint only really involves not making un-PC jokes in front of my grandparents and so on.

I will however, use 'gay' and 'black' not out of a conscious decision to be un-PC but because they are normal lay terms that most people are comfortable using, and I'm not going to pussy-foot my way around talking to people or use these long robotic terms like 'developmentally delayed'. It's only because of a minority of green-haired lesbian Guardian reading students that this PC bullshit became such a massive issue. Trying to minimise offence caused as a policy of any kind is fucking pathetic, and a forcing of the cards in favour of leftist discourse (though I've met plenty of lefties who eschew political correctness). Life is unpleasant, no use engaging in "word masturbation" as I once read it being described.
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DrommerOmDod
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:40 am
Posts: 522
PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:15 pm 
 

Viral wrote:
DrommerOmDod wrote:
Granted, it's much harder to be offended by such things as a white, straight male, but I can't deny I feel at least a twinge of annoyance on the rare occasion a black refers to something they don't like as "so white".

In most cases, ignorant blacks who refer to something as "so white" are usually trying to express their disdain for anything that's not "black".


Obviously. What's your point?
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SharpAndSlender, on the Big Four Tour wrote:
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Viral
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:04 am
Posts: 1890
PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:43 am 
 

DrommerOmDod wrote:
Viral wrote:
DrommerOmDod wrote:
Granted, it's much harder to be offended by such things as a white, straight male, but I can't deny I feel at least a twinge of annoyance on the rare occasion a black refers to something they don't like as "so white".

In most cases, ignorant blacks who refer to something as "so white" are usually trying to express their disdain for anything that's not "black".


Obviously. What's your point?

Just elaborating somewhat more on what you said. It's not so much that think of those certain things as "white", it's just that it's always something beyond their black "culture" and conventions. It irks me too.

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foz45139
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:48 pm
Posts: 448
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 1:54 pm 
 

Quote:
"baba blacksheep" being replaced by "baba rainbow sheep"...


Quote:
Around Halloween time, there was a Wiccan citizen somewhere in boston or something who was bringing up charges on her neighbor for having a witch hanging from a tree as a halloween decoration. The wiccan cited that it was offensive to her and her religion because it reminded them of a time when witches were burned at the stake for their beliefs.


:annoyed: This kind of stuff gets on my nerves so much it's unbelievable.

I wear glasses - does that mean I get all offended when people use the term 'four-eyes'? No, I even use it myself to describe other people who wear glasses. Like the other guy said, let it go.

Most of the time, these terms aren't used in a hateful way in the first place. If someone says 'Paki', then straight away they will be bombarded with 'OMG, HE SAID PAKI, HE'S RACIST!!!' But 9 times out of 10, they just said it because it's quicker than saying 'Pakistani'. Nothing to cry over. Killing people because of their race is disgusting, but some people kick up a storm over the smallest things these days.
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caspian
Wanderer of the Wastes

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:29 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 8:17 pm 
 

My view on this is always changing; sometimes I'll be kinda pro-PC and then the next day I'll be back to throwing around various "offensive" words and what not.

Honestly I don't really see anything terribly wrong with making various words such as "nigger" and what not taboo. The whole "I say what I want to say" sort of brigade is often fairly hypocritical in that regard; there's no problem calling a black dude a nigger but heaven forbid that someone criticize/insult white people- although this is all fairly anecdotal, I have to admit.

Of course, having said that a lot of people just need to grow thicker skin in general. You're going to get offended in life, deal with it; if you want to change people's ways then suing them/changing the baa baa black sheep song isn't going to do much in that regard.

I guess it's all about moderation and common sense, just like most things; unfortunately common sense and moderation are things that most people lack. I guess if I had to pick a side I'd take anti-PC over the pro-side.
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hells_unicorn
Metalhead

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Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:55 pm 
 

Noobbot wrote:
hells_unicorn wrote:
ThisIsWhereHeKills wrote:
hells_unicorn wrote:
rexxz wrote:
Nah, I think that's just a very small minority.


It's a pity, Vikings are a lot more fun than socialists, although I don't know if I'd want to have to fend off Norse plunderers like my ancestors probably did a dozen or so centuries ago. :lol:


Socialists? Please do elaborate. I'm curious.


Very well. While I'm certain that most Scandinavians don't regard their systems of government as Socialistic in the pure sense because of the mixture of free enterprise, essentially just about every in Europe, North and South America, and elsewhere have a socialist lean in their government. Personally I don't see this as a good thing, but opinions vary. This wasn't so much an intentional snub at people living in your region, although it could potentially be interpreted that way, but more of just a bad joke reflecting my general boredom with the whole political correctness concept. Normally when I make jokes about governments I stick to either America's or England's.


Does not every state capitalist society gravitate toward socialism?


Pretty much, that's why I started identifying with libertarianism, though unfortunately the Libertarian Party here in America is fairly useless so I may end up voting Constitution Party so I can get some form of a system with minimal corruption, which both State Capitalism and Socialism gravitate towards.
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Dechripastocide
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 3:16 am
Posts: 193
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:34 am 
 

Ghoul_Skool wrote:
For example I've heard more than a few rants about the term ''African-American'' being FUCKING PC CRAP >:'C, why is this?

We have been subliminally conditioned to react this way due to Myspace's exclusion of the term.

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Noobbot
Mors_Gloria + Thesaurus

Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:48 pm
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:52 am 
 

hells_unicorn wrote:
Noobbot wrote:
hells_unicorn wrote:
ThisIsWhereHeKills wrote:
hells_unicorn wrote:
rexxz wrote:
Nah, I think that's just a very small minority.


It's a pity, Vikings are a lot more fun than socialists, although I don't know if I'd want to have to fend off Norse plunderers like my ancestors probably did a dozen or so centuries ago. :lol:


Socialists? Please do elaborate. I'm curious.


Very well. While I'm certain that most Scandinavians don't regard their systems of government as Socialistic in the pure sense because of the mixture of free enterprise, essentially just about every in Europe, North and South America, and elsewhere have a socialist lean in their government. Personally I don't see this as a good thing, but opinions vary. This wasn't so much an intentional snub at people living in your region, although it could potentially be interpreted that way, but more of just a bad joke reflecting my general boredom with the whole political correctness concept. Normally when I make jokes about governments I stick to either America's or England's.


Does not every state capitalist society gravitate toward socialism?


Pretty much, that's why I started identifying with libertarianism, though unfortunately the Libertarian Party here in America is fairly useless so I may end up voting Constitution Party so I can get some form of a system with minimal corruption, which both State Capitalism and Socialism gravitate towards.


So far as I am aware, mercantilism is almost inevitable with government. Whether industry is immediately incorporated, in the case of highly controlled socialism, or industry is slowly absorbed, as in the case of capitalism, either way industry and the corporate sector at some point merge with the state.

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hells_unicorn
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:32 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 5:19 pm 
 

Noobbot wrote:
So far as I am aware, mercantilism is almost inevitable with government. Whether industry is immediately incorporated, in the case of highly controlled socialism, or industry is slowly absorbed, as in the case of capitalism, either way industry and the corporate sector at some point merge with the state.


Mercantilism is best dealt with by stripping away the state's ability to grant corporate charters and to enforce anti-trust laws (the latter is the preferred method of incorporated industry snuffing out smaller competitors). Both the Libertarian and Constitution Party support doing this, and I think some elements in the Green Party here might be open to doing this as well. The Libertarian Party looked like the best hope to get a 3rd Party's foot in the door, but then you got shills like Noam Chomsky and Neal Boortz going in and dividing the movement into two mirror images of the false left/right paradigm and it's all but dead in the water.
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orionmetalhead
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:39 pm 
 

Another interesting story I heard on the radio:

A Native American mother is trying to band a decade old tradition in her town of having children in kindergarten from different schools getting together for thanksgiving while dressing as pilgrims or indians. Her reason: It is like dressing up as Nazis and Jews and getting together to eat or Slaves and Slave Owners. The schools, are bowing down to her request to remove the costumes from the whole thing.

I guess we have to remove all noting of indians and pilgrims from our text books too. Ridiculous.
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hells_unicorn
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:12 am 
 

orionmetalhead wrote:
Another interesting story I heard on the radio:

A Native American mother is trying to band a decade old tradition in her town of having children in kindergarten from different schools getting together for thanksgiving while dressing as pilgrims or indians. Her reason: It is like dressing up as Nazis and Jews and getting together to eat or Slaves and Slave Owners. The schools, are bowing down to her request to remove the costumes from the whole thing.

I guess we have to remove all noting of indians and pilgrims from our text books too. Ridiculous.


Considering the way that history actually played out regarding the pilgrims, this Indian woman is a borderline retard, and this is coming from someone with Lakota Sioux ancestry who supports paying reparations to the tribes and the Lakota independence movement. The pilgrims respected the rights of native hunters to property and freedom of movement within the areas they populated. It wasn't until the time of Andrew Jackson that things became really bad, although Thomas Jefferson reneged on a lot of promises made by the original settlers, agreements which Patrick Henry and the anti-Federalists would likely have upheld if they had not have been forced out of the government. Neither Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, or any proponents of the Manifest Destiny were in any way connected with the original pilgrim settlers who landed at Plymouth Rock.
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Osmium
The Hateful Raven

Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2003 2:18 am
Posts: 2521
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:05 pm 
 

A university recently canceled a fundraiser for cystic fibrosis patients because, since it affects primarily caucasian (which they took to mean white) males (which is not true, but they believed it was), their contribution to the charity would not serve a diverse enough group.

http://jimbenderoxford.blogspot.com/200 ... dents.html

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ogmetal
Veteran of the Psychic Wars

Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:22 pm
Posts: 3960
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:26 pm 
 

Osmium wrote:
A university recently canceled a fundraiser for cystic fibrosis patients because, since it affects primarily caucasian (which they took to mean white) males (which is not true, but they believed it was), their contribution to the charity would not serve a diverse enough group.

http://jimbenderoxford.blogspot.com/200 ... dents.html


This is the type of thing that angers me. People are trying to show their support for non-caucasians at the expense of caucasians. Really, we're talking about a fund raiser to support illness, in this case. I wouldn't care if it were green people suffering...it's still a worthwhile cause.

Totally absurd.
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NeglectedField
Onwards to Camulodunum!

Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:19 am
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:00 pm 
 

Osmium wrote:
A university recently canceled a fundraiser for cystic fibrosis patients because, since it affects primarily caucasian (which they took to mean white) males (which is not true, but they believed it was), their contribution to the charity would not serve a diverse enough group.

http://jimbenderoxford.blogspot.com/200 ... dents.html


The charity should release a video where a worker announces to a group of CF sufferers that they have no more money for them and can't help them no more :aww:

I fucking hate the liberal stranglehold on universities over the world right now. Students enraged by this should get together to counteract this shit.
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Noobbot
Mors_Gloria + Thesaurus

Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:48 pm
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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:55 am 
 

hells_unicorn wrote:
Noobbot wrote:
So far as I am aware, mercantilism is almost inevitable with government. Whether industry is immediately incorporated, in the case of highly controlled socialism, or industry is slowly absorbed, as in the case of capitalism, either way industry and the corporate sector at some point merge with the state.


Mercantilism is best dealt with by stripping away the state's ability to grant corporate charters and to enforce anti-trust laws (the latter is the preferred method of incorporated industry snuffing out smaller competitors). Both the Libertarian and Constitution Party support doing this, and I think some elements in the Green Party here might be open to doing this as well. The Libertarian Party looked like the best hope to get a 3rd Party's foot in the door, but then you got shills like Noam Chomsky and Neal Boortz going in and dividing the movement into two mirror images of the false left/right paradigm and it's all but dead in the water.


I'm not so sure. It seems to me that, despite the fact that this country was for maybe a century free, it has fallen under the grips of bankers and corporate bigwigs into the depths of mercantilism despite the best efforts of the founding fathers, and despite this notion of 'limited government' (a very paradoxical idea indeed). Expecting a monopoly to eternally limit and feud amongst itself is akin to expecting a mobster to one day abandon his field of employment and pay torts to all of his victims of pure, whimsical goodwill. I've begun to distance myself from libertarians of fear of being backstabbed later on. The libertarian party is hardly a holy cow, and if and when it does sieze power, it has as much to fear from anarchists as traditional statists.

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hells_unicorn
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:32 pm
Posts: 2240
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 2:38 am 
 

Noobbot wrote:
hells_unicorn wrote:
Noobbot wrote:
So far as I am aware, mercantilism is almost inevitable with government. Whether industry is immediately incorporated, in the case of highly controlled socialism, or industry is slowly absorbed, as in the case of capitalism, either way industry and the corporate sector at some point merge with the state.


Mercantilism is best dealt with by stripping away the state's ability to grant corporate charters and to enforce anti-trust laws (the latter is the preferred method of incorporated industry snuffing out smaller competitors). Both the Libertarian and Constitution Party support doing this, and I think some elements in the Green Party here might be open to doing this as well. The Libertarian Party looked like the best hope to get a 3rd Party's foot in the door, but then you got shills like Noam Chomsky and Neal Boortz going in and dividing the movement into two mirror images of the false left/right paradigm and it's all but dead in the water.


I'm not so sure. It seems to me that, despite the fact that this country was for maybe a century free, it has fallen under the grips of bankers and corporate bigwigs into the depths of mercantilism despite the best efforts of the founding fathers, and despite this notion of 'limited government' (a very paradoxical idea indeed). Expecting a monopoly to eternally limit and feud amongst itself is akin to expecting a mobster to one day abandon his field of employment and pay torts to all of his victims of pure, whimsical goodwill. I've begun to distance myself from libertarians of fear of being backstabbed later on. The libertarian party is hardly a holy cow, and if and when it does sieze power, it has as much to fear from anarchists as traditional statists.


If the anarchists can show me how they can function as more than simply a useful tool of traditional and false revolutionary statists, I'll be more open to their desire to end the reign of the state. I can't stand what the state does, but I don't think its something that can be gotten rid of given the metaphysical nature of this world. I'll spare you the theology and just suggest that human beings tend to desire tyranny, assuming that we aren't dealing with a sort of conspiracy of power.
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Fallen33
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:13 am
Posts: 19
PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 8:43 am 
 

The entire concept of being "politically correct" evolved out of pussy shit people who are offended too easily.

The general populous has lacked nuts because of the comforts of our modern age. There was no such thing as being "PC" before this past century. (half-century?)

You think cave men got offended if the smarter in the "tribe" started using a spoken language and they didn't? FUCK NO, they had more IMPORTANT shit to worry about.

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KingVold
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:05 am
Posts: 1082
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:28 pm 
 

NeglectedField wrote:
Osmium wrote:
A university recently canceled a fundraiser for cystic fibrosis patients because, since it affects primarily caucasian (which they took to mean white) males (which is not true, but they believed it was), their contribution to the charity would not serve a diverse enough group.

http://jimbenderoxford.blogspot.com/200 ... dents.html


The charity should release a video where a worker announces to a group of CF sufferers that they have no more money for them and can't help them no more :aww:

I fucking hate the liberal stranglehold on universities over the world right now. Students enraged by this should get together to counteract this shit.


Agreed. Think of how much change we could do if we worked on this?
America is fucked.
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AppleQueso wrote:
Acidgobblin wrote:
I refuse to listen to a genre using an onamatapoeiac descriptor.

Motion to change "Death Metal" to "EEURRRGHHH"

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NeglectedField
Onwards to Camulodunum!

Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:19 am
Posts: 1390
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 3:43 pm 
 

KingVold wrote:
Agreed. Think of how much change we could do if we worked on this?
America is fucked.


It's more of a problem in UK universities as far as I can tell. I guess the US is just 'making up' for the whole "Better Dead than Red" stuff from the 50s. Why not just have it that no strong political leaning is allowed to have an ideological monopoly? Especially not when it comes to staff. Students are being failed/marked down based on having the 'wrong' views in their essays.

I mean, it's fine if the university wants to make sure that no discrimination is being made against any student for their ethnicity, but that's not the same as strangling discussion.
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Noobbot
Mors_Gloria + Thesaurus

Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:48 pm
Posts: 426
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 5:30 pm 
 

hells_unicorn wrote:
Noobbot wrote:
hells_unicorn wrote:
Noobbot wrote:
So far as I am aware, mercantilism is almost inevitable with government. Whether industry is immediately incorporated, in the case of highly controlled socialism, or industry is slowly absorbed, as in the case of capitalism, either way industry and the corporate sector at some point merge with the state.


Mercantilism is best dealt with by stripping away the state's ability to grant corporate charters and to enforce anti-trust laws (the latter is the preferred method of incorporated industry snuffing out smaller competitors). Both the Libertarian and Constitution Party support doing this, and I think some elements in the Green Party here might be open to doing this as well. The Libertarian Party looked like the best hope to get a 3rd Party's foot in the door, but then you got shills like Noam Chomsky and Neal Boortz going in and dividing the movement into two mirror images of the false left/right paradigm and it's all but dead in the water.


I'm not so sure. It seems to me that, despite the fact that this country was for maybe a century free, it has fallen under the grips of bankers and corporate bigwigs into the depths of mercantilism despite the best efforts of the founding fathers, and despite this notion of 'limited government' (a very paradoxical idea indeed). Expecting a monopoly to eternally limit and feud amongst itself is akin to expecting a mobster to one day abandon his field of employment and pay torts to all of his victims of pure, whimsical goodwill. I've begun to distance myself from libertarians of fear of being backstabbed later on. The libertarian party is hardly a holy cow, and if and when it does sieze power, it has as much to fear from anarchists as traditional statists.


If the anarchists can show me how they can function as more than simply a useful tool of traditional and false revolutionary statists, I'll be more open to their desire to end the reign of the state. I can't stand what the state does, but I don't think its something that can be gotten rid of given the metaphysical nature of this world. I'll spare you the theology and just suggest that human beings tend to desire tyranny, assuming that we aren't dealing with a sort of conspiracy of power.


If you are requesting precedents as it seems, I have a rather solid list. Celtic Ireland, pre-Norman England, dark ages Iceland, many of the American Indian nations, much of pre-Christian northern Europe, and some of Africa (and Somalia today is stateless, since 1995) were lacking a formal state, and thus were, for all intents and purposes, anarchic. Even the not-so-wild American west was for quite a stretch anarchic on the frontiers, for a more relevant example. Voluntary states - non-geographic business entities which hold the functions of the state, without of course being a geographic, coercive monopoly - can easily placate those who wish to live under such organizations. Yes, I do believe that anarchism is unsustainable at the moment, for states would most likely rise again, but if a true laissez-faire state could be developed, and gradually phased away, enough of the population could be coaxed into accepting a stateless society (the power and influence of religion would also need to be abated, for the state is an inherently religious institution). There will be the occasional would-be tyrant, but because they would initiate force, measures of defense would be valid and necessary to quell their ilk.

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alexanderthegreat
Metal Barbarian Dinosaur

Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2003 5:34 pm
Posts: 1916
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 5:51 pm 
 

Probably a teensy bit of a tangent, but it was part of the original article:

Quote:
Until very recently, it was a mystery to evolutionary psychology why men prefer women with large breasts, since the size of a woman's breasts has no relationship to her ability to lactate. But Harvard anthropologist Frank Marlowe contends that larger, and hence heavier, breasts sag more conspicuously with age than do smaller breasts. Thus they make it easier for men to judge a woman's age (and her reproductive value) by sight—suggesting why men find women with large breasts more attractive.


This is easily the most logical explanation I've found for my weird fixation for particularly large boobs. Because I'm terrible at judging gestures and physical cues (part of the AS), it could be argued that I'd have more difficulty judging things like age and fertility. Therefore, I would find extreme sexual dimorphism such as large breasts more attractive, since it makes it far easier for me to judge their suitability as a mating partner.

Wow, that's a load off my mind. Now I can finally say "I love epic boobs, because I can use her sizeable magumbos as accessible points of reference to estimate her suitability to carry my genes via their mass and resistance to gravity!" AAAAAAAaaaaaaaah, science.

In regards to the PC thing: African-American irritates me because it confuses the lines between nationality and ethnicity. A black person of African ancestry born in America, a white person born in America who moves to Africa, and a person of Chinese/Navajo ancestry born in Africa who moves to America can all be called African-American, which shows how useless it is as a phrase.

Political Correctness in general is from a good place in the desire to not offend needlessly, but as with all good ideas, it goes horribly wrong once idiots get their hands on it. For every reasonable campaign to fight prejudice, you get some insanity like considering "Black Hole" a racist term or using the spelling "Womyn".
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Woolie_Wool
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:56 pm
Posts: 1517
Location: Far beyond the prophecy of tyrant guardians
PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:29 pm 
 

T51b wrote:
DrommerOmDod wrote:
orionmetalhead wrote:
I dont see any problem with calling a weak metal album gay. It is implying it lacks balls and or is too happy / cheerful to be an effective metal release.


I can understand your point, but I don't think it's right at all. At this point it's merely an unconscious, applying "gay" to anything we don't like, but I believe in this sense it originated from general dislike of homosexuals, and thus has nothing to do with a release being "too happy".


I fail to see why I should stop using it because it offends a bunch of pillow biters. Not trying to be funny I am honestly asking why I should not be allowed to say "This is gay" without being marked by some as a bigoted.

Homosexuals and Lesbians who are offended over the use of gay as slang for something bad really need to suck it up and grow a pair.


Please walk into a room full of black people, say "nigger" to their faces, and watch what happens. Don't ask me to pay your hospital bill. That's basically what you're doing, especially if you use "fag" instead of "gay". Should black people "grow a pair" because they don't like being called niggers, Jews "grow a pair" because they don't like being called kikes, and women "grow a pair" because they don't like being called bitches, hoes, or cunts?

orionmetalhead wrote:
I dont see any problem with calling a weak metal album gay. It is implying it lacks balls and or is too happy / cheerful to be an effective metal release.


Implying that gay people lack masculinity ("balls") is insulting in itself, and often completely untrue as well (speaking of hospital bills, would you dare walk into a leather bar and tell those guys they lack balls?).
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hells_unicorn
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:32 pm
Posts: 2240
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:17 am 
 

Quote:
Please walk into a room full of black people, say "nigger" to their faces, and watch what happens. Don't ask me to pay your hospital bill. That's basically what you're doing, especially if you use "fag" instead of "gay". Should black people "grow a pair" because they don't like being called niggers, Jews "grow a pair" because they don't like being called kikes, and women "grow a pair" because they don't like being called bitches, hoes, or cunts?


Most people who complain about being called one of those names have used similar derogatory comments in reference to others, so if a black man thinks making Chinese jokes are funny and kicks the shit out of someone for saying the word "nigger", he is definitely neck deep in hypocrisy.

If I can sit through an hour of Chris Rock throwing out every stereotype ever attributed to Caucasians and not succumb to the urge to track him down or launch a lawsuit at him, the groups that you mentioned can do the equivalent.
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