I've always been interested in experimental and Avant-Garde music, but there's not much in the way of metal music of this kind that I know of. Can anyone recommend me any Avant-Garde Metal? The only band I really know that fits this description is Fantomas, which I am a fan of, and was wondering if anyone knows of any similar bands?

I also know of John Zorn's Naked City, but that's a lot more punk/Grindcore than metal.

Man, there's actually quite a few avant-garde metal bands. Have you tried Arcturus? Sigh? Alchemist?

Unexpect are an oft-cited avant-garde metal band, and one about whom opinions are quite mixed. I think they're absolute rubbish, but I am judging them on the basis of their In A Flesh Aquarium, which has 10 reviews with an average rating of 84%, so chances are good that you'll enjoy something about them.

Disharmonic Orchestra.

Started as Death Metal/Grindcore mix and then went onto a more Avant Garde sound. "Not to be Undimensional Conscious" is a great example of the fusion between their original, harsher sound and a more Avant-Garde approach.

Unexpect are horrid, go for something a little bit more creative than mish-mashing together a bunch of stupid shit. Try some Wormfood or Sigh.

Sorry, I meant to say I haven't heard many, though I worded it so it looked like I wasn't sure if any existed. I'll look a bit of them up.

I looked up a bit of Disharmonic Orchestra, sounds interesting, I'll have to look further into them.

Was unable to find any Wormfood, I'll keep looking though.

Well, I strongly recommend you grab Hangman's Hymn by Sigh. It's fairly new and not at all hard to find, and it's a damn fine piece of work. Makes me think of a black metal circus.

Sigh's Hangman's Hymn is one of the finest albums of the past twenty years. I am not afraid to make that claim.

That said, you want something that sounds like Fantomas. Could you be a bit more specific here? Which album(s) specifically are you looking at for the "sounds like" bit? There's quite a bit of difference in sound between Delirium Cordia and Suspended Animation, after all...

If you look around online, you can find some free demos/albums/eps/what have you of some random avant-garde metal bands. Definitely check out Gnaw Their Tongues for this stuff. Pretty awesome. Kkleq Muzzil's M is also available for free download, and worth it. There's also Antimony, but they're more like a gothic metal band experimenting with odd tonalities and harmonics, making them rather hard to listen to. Definitely not for everyone (and I say this knowing we're talking about avant-garde metal here). And hey, isn't one of Axis Of Perdition's albums available online for free? That's very much worth getting, especially if you enjoyed Delirium Cordia.

While they don't exactly sound like Fantomas, I also have to recommend Mike Patton's other works. Tomahawk is pretty awesome, especially the Anonymous album. And, of course, there's Mr. Bungle. Significantly less metal than Fantomas, but the first two albums can be just as spastic and noisy (and worth getting). Unexpect definitely are trying to recreate this sense of chaos with their post-Utopia stuff, but I think Mr. Bungle does it better.

That said, Unexpect's Utopia is actually a darn good album that's terribly underrated. Much more coherent than their later "stuff everything you can in a blender" material.

Naturally, while Hangman's Hymn is likely their best, I'd be selling the band short if I didn't say darn near everything they've done is awesome. Their early material had its own twists on black metal, but things started to get rather crazy with Hail Horror Hail and later.

People don't really seem to be considering them "avant-garde," but I think Behold... The Arctopus, Spastik Ink, and Blotted Science are worth mentioning. Technically, they may be "progressive" metal, but their styles are just so alien that they might as well fit here. Also, if you're a fan of John Zorn's stuff, Flying Luttenbachers may be another non-metal band to check out, bordering on jazz/noise. And if that works, maybe Orthrelm will tickle your fancy.

Finally, have you checked out some of the post-White1 Sunn O))) material? To me, drone and avant-garde metal are pretty much musically cousins, and the later Sunn O))) material is definitely experimental (for better or for worse... damn jackhammers...).

Edit: I just noticed the length of this post. Can you tell I'm a fan of the genre?

Not so much metal now (moreso it is WTF) but Thee Maldoror Kollective is fairly avant-garde. They underwent the black metal > industrial/avant change like a few others.

I was using Fantomas just as an example of an Avant-garde and am willing to listen to anything of an experimental nature. Though I will say, the Fantomas album I was thinking of when I wrote this topic was The Directors Cut.



I have everything by Mr. Bungle, but have only heard one song by Tomahawk (God hates a coward). It sounds a little more straight forward than Mr. Bungle, but that's not a problem, and I can't judge a band based on one song I've heard. I'll look up the Anonymous album.



Never heard of this band before, but I must say you've made me very interested in looking into them.



I think Progressive bands and Avant-Garde bands often over lap, as progressive music does allow for more creativity and experimentation than more straight forward bands. I'll have to check out thos jazz/noise bands, I don't know why but that kind of music appeals to me.



Haven't heard of them, but after looking up all your other suggestions (As well as the other posters suggestions), I'll look up a bit of them.



I had my suspicions.

Thanks for all the suggestions, and thanks everyone else who suggested bands also.

Just for the sake of my possible increased participation in this thread in the future, what exactly does avant-garde metal encompass? And when does the border get drawn between something that is avant-garde metal and something that is avant-garde with some varying degree of metal influence? I've got Meshuggah listed under that label, though I'm not quite feeling the avant-garde side of the metal. Same goes for Sigh's Hangman's Hymn, though that album is a lot more "experimental" than obZen, the only Meshuggah release I have.

I'll take the easy and cheap way out and post a link to a wikipedia page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avant-garde_metal

I guess determining when something is Avant-garde metal and when something is avant-garde with metal influence, is like being able to tell Thrash Metal from Crossover Thrash. Or maybe a better example would be grindcore from Death Metal. Maybe even telling the difference between Killswitch Engage and Avenged Sevenfold. I don't really know, but I guess if there is an overall heaviness to the music, than it is avant-garde metal.

Grind and death are actually quite different. They're just similar in the same way that black metal is similar to dark ambient.

Stolen Babies and Diablo Swing Orchestra. They are not that freaked out in the sense that they mix many styles together and structure it somewhat chaotically, but they do have this dark cabaret, operatic and lovably unstable vibe (especially Stolen Babies) which makes them kind of "avant-garde", or at the very least unusual. Their greatest feat though, is that they remain extremely catchy almost all the time.

I'm a huge fan of avant garde, so here's a some bands that you should check out that haven't been mentioned yet:

Ephel Duath - The only band that I know of that truly incorporates jazz into metal. Very spastic, chaotic, and progressive. Both clean and harsh vocals are incorporated into the mix. A must if you like jazz fusion at all.

Arcturus- This one's pretty obvious, but I'm surprised they've only been mentioned once in this thread. "La Masquerade Infernale" is their best, but "Sham Mirrors" and "Aspera..." are brilliant as well. Black metal with many avant influences. "La Masquerade" is similar to Sigh's "Hangman's Hymn" in atmosphere, as both have a carnival/demented circus vibe.

In the Woods...- Like Arcturus, these guys were based in black metal, but by the end of their career really didn't sound like black metal at all. Difficult to describe, but they incorporate a lot of ambient into their sound, especially on later albums. Great clean vocals, too. Each song is completely different from the next; it's always very hard to predict how their albums will progress.

Ulver- One of my favorite bands. Ulver is an avant garde metal pioneer, and a must, especially if you are into ambient and electronica. Their first three albums are rooted in black metal and folk, and are all excellent, but not exactly avant garde. "Themes from William Blake..." is probably their most diverse album stylistically, and I would check this out if you are feeling adventurous. Industrial, electronic, metal - you name it, it's probably on there somewhere. Their later albums are more electronic/symphonic, but just as good, especially Perdition City.

Sleepytime Gorilla Museum - Maybe not totally metal, but SGM are about as avant garde as it gets. The band uses a lot of homemade instruments, and each song sounds monumentally different from the next. I really don't know how to describe them; it's almost like Mr. Bungle, King Crimson, and Thinking Plague all had a baby together, and this kid dated Unexpect. "In Glorious Times" is necessary if you like avant garde.

Estradasphere are great too, but they aren't really metal. Check them out anyways, though. Excellent, experimental instrumental music that draws from music of many different cultures and time periods, such as classical Asian, 50's pop, baroque, etc.

I don't get this comparison of Hangman's Hymn to circus music, considering that when the album isn't playing black/thrash metal, they're using some Romantic-period-esque symphonic arrangements and traditional church hymns/other pieces. Dies Irae =/= Circus music. Not even demented, demonic circus music.

Oh yeah, and no one's mentioned Havoc Unit/...And Oceans/Whatever they're going by nowadays. Though the Havoc Unit-named stuff seems to be intentionally more experimental than the atmospheric stuff of ...And Oceans. Based on industrial metal, worth looking at.

Terrible, terrible band.

!T.O.O.H.! often get labeled as avant-garde. Call them death metal, grindcore or whatever the fuck you want, the music is still fucking wierd and schizophrenic as hell. They rule though, so check them out.

Pan.Thy.Monium also needs a mention. As far as death metal goes, it's some of the wierdest shit I've ever heard. They've got these wierd keyboard passages and strange saxophone sections to set them apart from the crowd, even if you discount the very odd songwriting.

Diabolical Masquerade is also a must have in this style of metal. It's majestic, eerie, wierd as fuck sometimes, and just generally awesome all the time. Ravendusk In My Heart is beyond awesome, as is Phantom Lodge. You really can't go wrong with this band.

Ved Buens Ende is also a band you ought to check out. It's a very odd form of blackish metal (of some kind) with a general high amount of wierdness. I once heard them labeled as "avant garde profressive post black metal", and while that genre might seem a bit redundant and long winded it does give you an idea of what to expect from them.

Also, if you're interested, for a little more avant-gardeish interpretation of death metal, i reccomend you Gorguts.

VULTURE INDUSTRIES they are like Arcturus

Haven't seen Dodheimsgard mentioned yet, though I seem to be in the minority that like their new stuff a lot. Also, related to Ved Buens Ende is Virus (features the main guy between VBE), so if you like VBE, check it out. As for Sigh, I don't really find 'Hangman's Hymn' all that avant-garde, really. Check out 'Imaginary Sonicscape' and 'Gallows Gallery' for that.

Here's some more:
Demilich - Nespithe
Gorguts - Obscura
Celtic Frost - Into the Pandemonium
Voivod - Killing Technology, Dimension Hatross, Nothingface
Oxiplegatz - Worlds and Worlds, Sidereal Journey

None of those are avantgarde.

I really like a band called PsyOpus. Incredibly spastic. I really really like it. I don't think a lot of people on M-A like them, but I think you should check out their myspace profile at least.

There's a two man band from Japan called Ruins. Listen to them.

The drummer is the only consistent member. Every album (or near it) has a different bassist. They all use six string basses and they're distorted most of the time. I think you should check it out.

Seriously? I'm a big fan. I'm curious, what don't you like about them? I know some of their albums have a lot of filler, but stuff like "Angle of Repose" and "Ambugaton" is incredible.

I never understood the large amount of hate for Unexpect. Even the "throw everything in a blender" metaphor for their music I find hard to believe. I can easily distinguish the direction of the songs, and I don't particularly find them chaotic at all. More brooding and somewhat romantic due to the violins and some of the more sorrowful tunes (the end of Feasting Fools or Psychic Jugglers). Hell, I can remember entire songs by them with relative ease. Theres generally just small odd interludes, whereas the end of Carnival in Coal's "Fuckable" is what I consider chaotic.

Anyway, my little rant out of the way... Speaking of Carnival in Coal, you should try them out if you want to explore Avant-Garde. They're quite strange, but after a few listens the songs more or less come together and you start to love it (if you're like me). Hell, they made one song that was completely disco in terms of the composition and instruments, yet its ridiculously fun while Arno sings cleanly and happily about necrophilia. When they make more "serious" songs (not to say their other works arent serious, just the atmosphere of the lyrics being darker with less random interludes and inserts) its bloody beautiful too. Exit Upon Void will remain a favorite of mine for quite a while. Even their covers are pretty cool. The cover of Supuration's 1308.JP.08 is awesome, even if its keyboard laden.

Obscura is.

Diapsiquir. Especially "Virus S.T.N." album, check out reviews. If you're into black metal mixed with electro/techno, trip-hop, classical, a lot of sampling from movies & french junkie dialogue, lot of tempo changing from ext slow doomish to ext fast industrial blastbeats, unique shout vocals, lyrics dealing with urban degeneration, drugs, whores, Satan etc etc. Totally unique band/album, after listening Virus STN like two years, i still cant find any flaws. Propably one of the best and most extreme "metal" album for me. You'll love it or hate it.

Have you listened to the album? It has MANY "circus" moments. Inked in Blood??? You can't tell me that isn't circus-y.

Anyway the only Sigh albums I have are Hangman's Hymn and their first one; Scorn Defeat, which is basically black metal. What Sigh release should I go to next for more avant garde than black?

Also I can't stand the song 'A Victory of Dakini' on Scorn Defeat. Out of tune guitar hurts my precious ears . Actually that whole release is pretty out of tune...

Anyway.. Alchemist are awesome (which i have said numerous times) and people should definitely check them out. They have an australian/space-y feel.

Is Vintersorg progressive or avant garde? They are fairly interesting.

Maudlin of the Well.
Most underrated band ever.

Solefald is a pretty interesting avant-garde metal band. Pills Against the Ageless Ills is a great (if not somewhat weird) album, and In Harmone Universali is a more melodic, in my opinion. The first two albums lean more towards black metal, but still great avant-garde pieces.

Well, aside from the fact that their music just sort of bores me, I find their whole "anti-rock" motif highly obnoxious and revolting.

Radiation 4 seem pretty crazy.

I thought it was generally agreed that Celtic Frost practically invented avant-garde metal with "Into The Pandemonium"...?

The others though are more progressive or technical, rather than avant-garde.

A descending scale on flutes and strings does not make for a circus moment. That's honestly the only part of the song that sounds even vaguely circus-y, and I'm listening to the song now (for what's probably the 248th time). And even if I do grant that one measure repeated a grand total of four times on the song, how does that make the album circus music?

Also, Scorn Defeat's guitar is not out of tune. Using "Victory of Dakini," as you cited, the opening part has the upper guitar simply playing a half-step lower than the typical black metal harmonic choice. This gives it an extra sense of dissonance atypical of the genre, thus increasing the tension as your ears look for the resolution of said dissonance. Is it "painful?" Yes. Intentionally so. That's what dissonance is meant to be. Music theory is fun.

If you're looking for the more avant-garde Sigh albums, get Gallows Gallery and Imaginary Sonicscape. If you get the former, though, be sure to get the remaster (blue-green cover). The original issue was just a production train wreck. GG has more of a consistent 70s-early 80s heavy metal vibe with a strong sense of psychedelia and some jazzy overtones. IS is a bit more spastic in the choice of styles... I wouldn't be too surprised if that album was Unexpect's primary inspiration on In A Flesh Aquarium (alongside the old Mr. Bungle albums). It's also quite keyboard/electronics laden, if that at all matters. Personally, I think it's a good touch, though.

Ved Buens Ende is, of course, near legendary. If you wind up liking Sigh's odd choices in black metal, VBE is likely up your alley. Virus is also great, but it should be noted that it's very much NOT black metal. Don't go for Virus expecting VBE part 2.

I'd like to know where these three are if you remember.

]

They weren't so bad when I saw them back at Heavy MTL.

How would you define avantgarde?

I agree wholeheartedly with the people who recommend Alchemist. They are truly unique; their sound is not strange per se, but they do have an odd mix of sounds and ideas. Spacey at times, but in an alien-ish type way as opposed to an atmospheric way.

I've heard great things about Devil Doll as well, but I have yet to actually listen to them. If someone here is a fan, could you describe them?

Avant-Garde is essentially doing something and going beyond the limits of what is considered normal/traditional. I know thats the biggest generalisation ever, but it's hard to explain any genre without getting too detailed.

I guess depending on what people have been exposed to throughout most of their lives, their view on what is different won't be the same as someone who has been exposed to something unrelated.

Try Anubi from Lithuania (http://www.myspace.com/anubispantheon), maybe they will fit here.

Devil Doll is godly. It's definitely not metal despite their presence in the archives. It's a mixture of classical, opera, rock and only a little bit of the heavier stuff performed in extremely long linear compositions.

Clear about an hour away of your time and sit down and listen to any one of the albums all the way through.. Personally I started at the beginning (The Girl Who Was Death) but every album is a treasure.