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Foulchrist
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:25 pm
Posts: 318
Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 7:18 pm 
 

If the fifth fret of the D string plays the same note as the open G string, why is it that sixth fret of the D string plays a lower note than the first fret of the G string?

Which string needs adjustment and what way? Been experimenting but haven't managed to sort it.

Cheers.

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ahr888
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:14 am
Posts: 334
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 7:44 pm 
 

Since intonation isn't done for a string relative to another string, there's no way to tell what's going on from the way you're doing it. But you could use a tuner to tell whether D string at fret 6 is off or G string at fret 1.

Test intonation the standard way, for each string- open string and 12th fret or open string and harmonic at the 12th fret.

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Foulchrist
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:25 pm
Posts: 318
Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 8:31 pm 
 

I've already done the usual intonation tests and it all seems fine, I'm beginning to think that the problem lies elsewhere. Maybe the nut.

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somefella
Metalhead

Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:57 pm
Posts: 2490
Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2013 11:50 pm 
 

That's possible too, I've seen a guitar with perfect intonation except for the first 2 frets, something to do with the nut as well.
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awheio
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:00 am
Posts: 269
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 1:52 am 
 

This is an obvious one, but I guess it's worth saying nonetheless: Make sure that you're not fretting the note with excess pressure. That can of course bend the note, making things seem off.

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kingnuuuur
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:35 pm
Posts: 2123
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 7:13 am 
 

I don't think it's the nut. What tuning and what string gauge are you using?

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Foulchrist
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:25 pm
Posts: 318
Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 7:57 am 
 

B standard/.11s . (just said D and G string for simplicity)

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Grave_Wyrm
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:55 pm
Posts: 2022
Location: In the Open Sea
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 2:15 pm 
 

.. I'm stumped. So both strings are in correct tune when they're both open? How far off are the respective half steps? I support awheio's advice. Mashing the note can change it by a surprising margin.

Since I don't even know if you have a tuner, check against this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxkMQvmKZaM

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Foulchrist
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:25 pm
Posts: 318
Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 3:43 pm 
 

I don't own a tuner, but I've done some more experimenting by tuning the open strings to the correct note, then using a piano to compare each note up the fretboard of each string. It seems that all fretted notes are sharp up until around the 5/6th fret where they start behaving as they should. This seems to be the case for all the strings, as I failed to notice before.

Getting closer to solving this, but it's still driving me mad!

Thanks for all the replies so far, I do appreciate it.

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Apteronotus
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:07 am
Posts: 840
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 4:11 pm 
 

If those first couple of frets are overly worn then you would have to push down further which would make those notes sharper. If the neck is warped back that too may cause the same problem. First, take a look at the frets and see if those first couple look flat in comparison to the others, or if they have flat divots around where the string would contact them. Next, I'd take it to a tech to see how if the neck is ok and to figure out what is really going on.
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Foulchrist
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:25 pm
Posts: 318
Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 4:58 pm 
 

It's definitely not the frets, so a truss rod issue might be the case. I get a bit of buzz with the lowest string even when I increase the action higher than I'd ever want it, so I'm guessing this could indicate that the neck is bowed too much like you suggest. I've done minor adjustments on the truss rod on an older guitar of mine, so I could give it a shot.

I'd rather know for sure that this could be the cause of the problem before I go screwing around with it though.

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kingnuuuur
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:35 pm
Posts: 2123
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 5:36 pm 
 

Do you also have this problem on other string pairs (E-A, A-D, G-B) ? Also, what scale length does your guitar have?

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ahr888
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:14 am
Posts: 334
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 7:52 pm 
 

I really don't see how intonation can be done by ear and without a tuner. I'd borrow a tuner or go to a store with my guitar and use an amp tuner. Get your guitar in perfect tune. Check and do intonation. Test which string is off and by how much. Remove the string, clean the groove at the nut and saddle with a toothpick or needle or piece or old string. Often strings literally sit on dirt. Replace with a new string. Tune again and check intonation.

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Foulchrist
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 3:25 pm
Posts: 318
Location: Scotland
PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2013 8:08 pm 
 

kingnuuuur wrote:
Do you also have this problem on other string pairs (E-A, A-D, G-B) ? Also, what scale length does your guitar have?


Haven't tried lower gauge strings. Scale length is 25.5"

ahr888 wrote:
I really don't see how intonation can be done by ear and without a tuner


Maybe not perfectly, but I can definitely tell whether a note is flat, sharp or not.

All strings are experiencing this problem and all up to the same area of the fret board, whether the intonation is alright or radically off.

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