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kale100
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 3:28 pm
Posts: 302
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:36 pm 
 

More out of limitation than choice I have resorted to attempting to make metal without instruments...merely with free programs I have been able to download. Screwing around with what I could find, I have been able to produce sounds that are probably better than one would expect given the resources, but still by no means good. I'm using Tabledit, Wavepad sound editor, and audacity at the moment, although I just downloaded amplitube yesterday. I was wondering if anyone has any experience doing what I am trying and could offer some advice, tips, etc.

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garthmargengi
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:16 am
Posts: 482
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:02 pm 
 

Well, first I'd say you have to get some midi/score writer to get the music part down.
Then get a DAW, some nice VSTs and you could get a good sound, but this is all subject to whether you're planning on pirating or not software, yanaw, the really good samplers and all that stuff costs some serious money, and though not bad, you're most likely not going to get the same sounds out of free stuff.
So I guess the question before giving some advice and all that, do you want to do it with free, legal stuff or no matter what?
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kale100
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 3:28 pm
Posts: 302
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:31 pm 
 

I use tabledit as the midi/score writer. I'm not exactly sure what a DAW is, they are like digital amp replicators right? If so I have amplitube, granted I can't figure out how to use it, all I get is barely discernable static. I havn't used any VSTs as of yet, being that I don't know what that is, could you recommend some? Free is a requirement, legal is a preference...usually it's a pain in the ass trying to get stuff from other sources. Thanks in advance for any help.

EDIT: I looked up VST things. I know wavepad has an option to run VST plugins, so would I just need to download the plugin and run it through there or would I need a VST host?

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garthmargengi
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Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:16 am
Posts: 482
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:54 pm 
 

Well, DAW stands for Digital Audio Workstation, that's basically where everything is set up, the recording and midi tracks, effects and all the shit, basically it's the base software you'll need for all of this. Audacity is a DAW, for example. Reaper in my opinion is one of the best, but it's not free, they let you use it as if it were though, like a full-trial.

VST(i) mean Virtual Studio Technology (instruments), these are basically, the virtually generated instruments (EZDrummer is a well known one, for example) and effect plugins (like Amplitube, GuitarRig, LePou and so on), which are mounted on either MIDI channels for the first (the instruments) and effect channels (the later). To run a VST or plugin, you first need a DAW to host it, they don't work as standalone or executables, instead, they usually come as .dlls to be put in a vst folder that the DAW scans to incorporate into it's library.

For further info you can always check wiki and tutorials on the internet for whatever daw you chose to use, and if you want to stay on the legal side of stuff, here you can find a list with lots of sites that hold a huge amount of free vsts.

And if I'm not wrong, amplitube is paid too, right? Here's a free one which I actually consider to be way better than both amplitube and guitarrig: http://lepouplugins.blogspot.com/

How do I recommend you to proceed? First write all the music in the score editor, export in MIDI format and then open the DAW; once there, import the MIDI -a separate channel should appear for each instrument-, all you have to do now is assign a VST to every channel, assign effects, mix and you're done.
Of course, this sounds simple, but it's actually more complicated than that, if you want the stuff to sound realistic you'll have to spend lots of time adjusting the velocity to every single hit manually, make sure the bends and whatnot sound real, it's quite a task.
As I usually say, learning all this is pretty much like learning to play an instrument, it will take you lots of time, you'll mess up, get frustrated sometimes, but as long as you stay patient and enjoy the process, you'll end up good, the first time using this stuff it seems all too hard, but as you get used to it, things start flowing easier.
If you get stuck, check for help on youtube, there's pretty much a tutorial video for everything.
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kale100
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 3:28 pm
Posts: 302
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:00 pm 
 

Thanks a bunch man, could not have asked for more helpful replies. I'll check out your links and see what I can do. :)

EDIT: Which one are you referring to in this link? http://lepouplugins.blogspot.com/

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garthmargengi
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:16 am
Posts: 482
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:15 pm 
 

Any of them, download all the windows versions and see which one suits best your needs.
Same for the VSTs, what type of sound are you looking or what style of metal are you going for? That could help anyone who's reading to recommend you some good ones.
Tapeotronic is one of my favourites for example, it's a great mellotron vst.
Or you could try OrganizedTrio, it has an amazing hammond style organ sound.
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kale100
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 3:28 pm
Posts: 302
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:27 pm 
 

I am going for any metal sound I can think of material for and have software to create...I can think of material for almost every subgenre, so I am mostly limited by the software...so anything that sounds good.

I just downloaded freeamp3 and voxengo and got them working in audacity. I will download Tapeotronic and OrganizedTrio next, I trust your judgment on their coolness.

...Hmmm I have encountered a problem. Audacity can't handle VST instruments.
...Damn I don't think wavepad can either.

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garthmargengi
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:16 am
Posts: 482
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:45 pm 
 

Might as well recommend some other goodies I have found over time then:

ChurchOrgan 2nd is... well, a church organ vst, pretty damn good.

ProtoPSG and Unknown64 are two lo-fi vsts emulating old school sounds (family game and snes, respectively), never gave them any real use, but loads of fun to fool around with: http://www.vst4free.com/index.php?plug-ins=Lo-fi

Only thing I don't think you'll ever find for free, are realistic sounding drums, so might as well head down a path that won't use them, which doesn't mean you can't get something that sounds nice (crappy drums with a good use of distortion and effects can get a great industrial sound), just know that unless you pay or pirate a proper sampler, the odds of getting a real sounding drumkit are very low.

EDIT: I think that's because audacity and wavepad have no midi editors, you'll need a daw which does.
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kale100
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 3:28 pm
Posts: 302
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:10 pm 
 

I don't know, I think putting tabledit drums with audacity gverb can make a nice sound (75.75m room size, 0 reverb time, .5 damping, 0 input bandwidth, -20 dry signal level, 0 early reflection level -17.5 tail level)

What would you recommend for a DAW?

Also, I hope them protopsg and unknown64 are 8-bit >=)

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garthmargengi
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:16 am
Posts: 482
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:18 pm 
 

I'd say you go for Reaper.
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kale100
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 3:28 pm
Posts: 302
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:36 pm 
 

Not having any luck opening VSTi in Reaper.

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garthmargengi
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:16 am
Posts: 482
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:38 pm 
 

Did you make sure to set the VST folder in Reaper's options as the one where all the VST's dlls are located? Won't recognized them otherwise.
After it does, you just have to create a new MIDI channel and insert there the VSTis.
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kale100
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 3:28 pm
Posts: 302
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:43 pm 
 

Ok, I got it to where I can click the keys to make sound, but It's not in the form where I can tab it out.

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garthmargengi
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:16 am
Posts: 482
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:00 am 
 

Well, now you should either import a midi you've already written and assign the VSTis to the tracks, or create a new track with a VSTi, go to the menu Insert > New MIDI Item and then double click the black thingie that appears on the channel to enter the piano roll and write down the notes.
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kale100
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 3:28 pm
Posts: 302
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:07 am 
 

Alright thanks, got that to work :) I can't get the midi parts created in tabledit to play but I don't think that will be much of an issue.

Well I am calling it a night. You sir have been of great help; I owe you a debt of gratitude. If there is somehow anything I can do to help you, I will gladly do so.

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garthmargengi
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:16 am
Posts: 482
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:10 am 
 

Glad to be able to help, knowledge is to be shared.
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