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trainwreck
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:29 pm
Posts: 3
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:12 pm 
 

over time, it gets better. your throat just...adapts. give it time, keep practicing, and your vocal range/the amount of time you can sing will increase.

also, when people do 2 hour shows, harsh vocals or otherwise, they aren't necessarily singing for the entire show. there's rest periods in the songs themselves and there's rest periods between songs, too. nobody stands up on stage and sings straight for 2 hours without any stops. gotta breathe.
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Joshulus
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 11:57 pm
Posts: 15
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 8:57 am 
 

trainwreck wrote:
over time, it gets better. your throat just...adapts. give it time, keep practicing, and your vocal range/the amount of time you can sing will increase.

also, when people do 2 hour shows, harsh vocals or otherwise, they aren't necessarily singing for the entire show. there's rest periods in the songs themselves and there's rest periods between songs, too. nobody stands up on stage and sings straight for 2 hours without any stops. gotta breathe.


Plus the fact that they drink a shit-ton of water before/during/after a show, certainly helps the vocal chords.

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UlvedaL
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:42 am
Posts: 42
Location: Denmark
PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:05 am 
 

www.myspace.com/deusotiosus

I do the vocals in this band.. They have all been one-taken, more or less..

I dont have anything to add, concerning the techniques.. Just violence and anger!!

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Satanic_Warmonger
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 4:49 am
Posts: 163
PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:21 am 
 

SCMugen wrote:
Been practicing for a while, went to a growling workshop some time ago by the vocalist for Abed (they're on the archives, great band)


growling workshop? *chuckles*

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RegularK
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:24 pm
Posts: 740
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:47 pm 
 

I'm completely new to vocals, actually so new I haven't even sung ever in my life. I would like to learn how to do some BM vocals (think Burzum/Aske - Burzum), completely unintelligible. Problem is, I have no clue on where to start to produce those vocals.

I can't imagine those being horrendously hard vocals to reproduce, just sounds like horribly slurred and exaggerated words said at a raised voice?

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the_empyreal_lexicon
Captured in Eternity's Eye

Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:54 pm
Posts: 229
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:01 pm 
 

Varg used a set of Studio headphones as a realy crappy mic

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crustcorestenchhead9
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:35 pm
Posts: 113
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:38 pm 
 

so your sayin he secreamed into a pair of speakers and it worked as a mic.... :grumble:

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RegularK
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:24 pm
Posts: 740
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:45 pm 
 

Quote:
For "singing" I used whatever microphone the sound technician handed me, or - when I recorded "Filosofem" - I asked for the worst microphone he had, and ended up using the microphone in a headset.
www.burzum.org article

But thats off-topic

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throsh
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:44 am
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:07 pm 
 

Hey im an absolute newbie at extreme metal vocals, ive now idea how to make the noises....any help anyway...kinda a step by step for a complete novice. I can sing "properly" i have quite a good bass singing voice.

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Satanic_Warmonger
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 4:49 am
Posts: 163
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:11 am 
 

RegularK wrote:
I'm completely new to vocals, actually so new I haven't even sung ever in my life. I would like to learn how to do some BM vocals (think Burzum/Aske - Burzum), completely unintelligible. Problem is, I have no clue on where to start to produce those vocals.

I can't imagine those being horrendously hard vocals to reproduce, just sounds like horribly slurred and exaggerated words said at a raised voice?


first, it helps if you have a high pitched voice to begin with. i always thought vargs vocals are difficult and never thought i could them myself. looking at vargs body frame, and the pitch of his voice, its alot like mine. but i never figured this to be any help. anyways - one time i had a friend over to play drums, while i played bass. we had set up a microphone to bark orders at each other ("youre off tempo!"...etc), we finally got this one song down, a slow and heavy one, sounded great, i decided to do vocals on it, in no time i was letting out varg style shrieks. you really have to force them out and not be afraid to do so, have alot of hate in mind too helps. also you have to be in the mindset to scream, as if you are in a fight between your asshole dad or whoever you would scream at. in vargs case it was jews most likely :metal:

smoking doesnt help varg type vocals. however. for velvet cacoon vocals, smoking is a plus, but i doubt anyone cares to sing like velvet cacoon........

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RegularK
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:24 pm
Posts: 740
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:00 pm 
 

Satanic_Warmonger wrote:
RegularK wrote:
I'm completely new to vocals, actually so new I haven't even sung ever in my life. I would like to learn how to do some BM vocals (think Burzum/Aske - Burzum), completely unintelligible. Problem is, I have no clue on where to start to produce those vocals.

I can't imagine those being horrendously hard vocals to reproduce, just sounds like horribly slurred and exaggerated words said at a raised voice?


first, it helps if you have a high pitched voice to begin with. i always thought vargs vocals are difficult and never thought i could them myself. looking at vargs body frame, and the pitch of his voice, its alot like mine. but i never figured this to be any help. anyways - one time i had a friend over to play drums, while i played bass. we had set up a microphone to bark orders at each other ("youre off tempo!"...etc), we finally got this one song down, a slow and heavy one, sounded great, i decided to do vocals on it, in no time i was letting out varg style shrieks. you really have to force them out and not be afraid to do so, have alot of hate in mind too helps. also you have to be in the mindset to scream, as if you are in a fight between your asshole dad or whoever you would scream at. in vargs case it was jews most likely :metal:

smoking doesnt help varg type vocals. however. for velvet cacoon vocals, smoking is a plus, but i doubt anyone cares to sing like velvet cacoon........


That sounds about right, thanks.

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pwd666
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:33 am
Posts: 243
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:19 pm 
 

Does anyone have any vocal recording techniques? (Mainly for growls)
Also, I usually just use my PA and hook it up to the computer to record, any suggestions for quality improvement without getting new hardware? Thanks in advance.

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Mutalitia
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 10:59 pm
Posts: 1190
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 7:44 pm 
 

Satanic_Warmonger wrote:
first, it helps if you have a high pitched voice to begin with. i always thought vargs vocals are difficult and never thought i could them myself. looking at vargs body frame, and the pitch of his voice, its alot like mine.


That's an interesting point. It seems like for death metal vocals having a really low natural voice helps, just judging by some of the supposedly great growlers such as Johan Hegg and David Vincent, both of whom have deep voices, and Angela Gossow actually has a pretty low voice for a woman. I guess it makes sense that having a high voice would be better for black metal style vocals.
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Satanic_Warmonger
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 4:49 am
Posts: 163
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 3:20 am 
 

high pitched voice, matches the buzzy thin guitar sound dont you think?

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Fear_Shining_Yrael
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:29 pm
Posts: 16
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:36 pm 
 

I can only do very, very low death grunts comfortable, though I would love to do raspy growls. I've tried, but I can't get it right. It always sounds like I'm spitting up snot in my throat. :(

I can do decent clean falsetto, but after twenty or so minutes of practicing my voice will just crack. I suppose I just can't keep it that tight...

But I'm in a band and doing vocals and some guitar for, but the music we're trying to place doesn't fit with my vocals very much. I may just step back and play guitar, but there is nobody, and I mean nobody in this town that likes actual metal besides the four of us in this band, and none of the others can do growls without going hoarse on us after ten or twenty minutes.
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crustcorestenchhead9
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:35 pm
Posts: 113
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:13 pm 
 

pwd666 wrote:
Does anyone have any vocal recording techniques? (Mainly for growls)
Also, I usually just use my PA and hook it up to the computer to record, any suggestions for quality improvement without getting new hardware? Thanks in advance.


theres not really "techniques" to do it but alot of bands that are starting out that use 8 tracks and computer software and not in a proffesional studio, they think they have to eat the mic like when jaming but this makes your recording sound horrible and you can also hear a bunch of air. really all you have to do is stay away from the mic about 6 inches and then turn the vocals tack up more since it will be more quiet. since its a growl and you push the air out maybe be even further away from the mic so it doesnt pick up the exhaled air.

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RegularK
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:24 pm
Posts: 740
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:25 am 
 

Could you get some panty hose (some fine mesh) and make an air break and hold it in between the singer and microphone to prevent pops and air passing by? I'm pretty sure that would work but I can't find anything on it right now to back that statement up.

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grave_robber
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:52 pm
Posts: 13
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:06 pm 
 

when I'm a vocalist in a blackened death metal band and I can pretty much master any kind of vocals except those of USBM like Xasthur and Leviathan and Gaahl's of Gorgoroth. does anyone know how I could start learning how to do them?

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the_empyreal_lexicon
Captured in Eternity's Eye

Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:54 pm
Posts: 229
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:17 pm 
 

wrest puts his vocals through a line six pod

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grave_robber
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:52 pm
Posts: 13
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:20 pm 
 

the_empyreal_lexicon wrote:
wrest puts his vocals through a line six pod


hmm, maybe that's why I can't do them straight forward

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the_empyreal_lexicon
Captured in Eternity's Eye

Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:54 pm
Posts: 229
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:29 pm 
 

His sound is unatural it cant be done like that without effects. I prefer more natural sounding vocals.

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grave_robber
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:52 pm
Posts: 13
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:33 pm 
 

the_empyreal_lexicon wrote:
His sound is unatural it cant be done like that without effects. I prefer more natural sounding vocals.


what do you mean more natural sounding?

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dag204
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:22 pm
Posts: 30
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:16 pm 
 

Well im in a band (myspace.com/muspelheimr) and i am the vocalist, i have a great growl based on Johan Hegg from Amon Amarth, but i have a problem going from the real deep growl to shrieking or other high pitched noises with out my voice either shaking or giving out, any advice?
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AurvandiL
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 8:22 am
Posts: 1000
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 6:42 am 
 

dag204 wrote:
Well im in a band (myspace.com/muspelheimr) and i am the vocalist, i have a great growl based on Johan Hegg from Amon Amarth, but i have a problem going from the real deep growl to shrieking or other high pitched noises with out my voice either shaking or giving out, any advice?


wait for the end of your teenage years.

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SainTGuY
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 2
Location: Israel
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:19 am 
 

What do you guys physically feel when trying to growl ?
I mean, I just push my Adam's apple downstairs, push my neck back, and kinda produce the voice from there. It isn't loud at all, but I can do it for quite a long time (30-40 seconds on a good day).

I can also just push air, then it's low and loud,
but it's less harsh and you can hear my normal voice.
Also, the max I can do is for like 5-7 seconds.

Just asking if I should continue with what I'm doing, or switch the technique...

I'm also trying BM, but that's just killing my throat.
... Maybe I'm doing something wrong though.

\m/

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Human666
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 11:59 am
Posts: 366
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:11 pm 
 

SainTGuY wrote:
What do you guys physically feel when trying to growl ?
I mean, I just push my Adam's apple downstairs, push my neck back, and kinda produce the voice from there. It isn't loud at all, but I can do it for quite a long time (30-40 seconds on a good day).

I can also just push air, then it's low and loud,
but it's less harsh and you can hear my normal voice.
Also, the max I can do is for like 5-7 seconds.

Just asking if I should continue with what I'm doing, or switch the technique...

I'm also trying BM, but that's just killing my throat.
... Maybe I'm doing something wrong though.

\m/


I do the same thing as you, just don't forget to take wide breath and hold your diaphragm.

BTW, I wanna try singing Thrash Metal like let's say tom arya from Slayer or James Hetfield from the 80s...Any good tips?

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SainTGuY
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Feb 02, 2007 10:44 am
Posts: 2
Location: Israel
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:50 am 
 

I know that James is singing with what they call "heat".
It's like a half growl :P
Listen to some Korpiklaani songs... IMO Jonne Järvelä does some good vocals.

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pwd666
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:33 am
Posts: 243
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:26 am 
 

RegularK wrote:
Could you get some panty hose (some fine mesh) and make an air break and hold it in between the singer and microphone to prevent pops and air passing by? I'm pretty sure that would work but I can't find anything on it right now to back that statement up.

Sounds like this could definittly work. Im not sure where, but I've heard of someone else doing that. Ill try get some panty hose and a metal coat hanger and make one to attach to my mic stand! Thanks for the idea.

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SpiralLoiter
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:03 am
Posts: 139
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 11:13 am 
 

Yeah, nice idea with the hose. :)

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DeadMinds
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 3:49 am
Posts: 2
Location: Colombia
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:10 am 
 

Check out our music at www.myspace.com/deadmindsband

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SpiralLoiter
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:03 am
Posts: 139
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:32 am 
 

Nice screeches you have there :)

Any tips you could give us?

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ViolentIllusion
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:07 am
Posts: 15
Location: Belgium
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 7:24 am 
 

I can do a kind of black metal scream like shagrath from Dimmu Borgir. Not as good as he does, but it's a start. Anyone having suggestions ... i'm open for everything :p Horns up everyone ! :headbang:

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Walri
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 8:42 pm
Posts: 14
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:38 pm 
 

After fooling around and doing old Celtic Frost and Slayer-style vocals, my friends have been telling me that I am actually pretty good at them, so I might be doing some live covers of old Celtic Frost songs for my friend's thrash band. However, due to my apparently good Lee Dorrian (Cathedral) impression, another friend has recruited me to be the vocalist for his doom band. I don't want to restrict myswelf to imitation, so I will have to develop my own style(s) - my main influences for vocals so far being Cathedral, Voivod, and Celtic Frost (the older stuff - no way in hell I could be as amazing as the vocals are on Monotheist).

I am somewhat concerned about damaging my throat/voice - is that a worry for thrashy or Lee Dorrian style vocals?

Also, do you guys have any advice on how to be less self-conscious when singing clean? My clean singing isn't that great anyway, but the fact that I get very nervous and self-conscious when I try to do it in the band makes it impossible to sound decent or be consistent in hitting or holding notes. Don't say beer - can't stand it. If I could be more relaxed and just let loose like I can with speaking or harsher (though not growling or screaming) vocals, I would be able to sound far better than I do now.

Any advice on doing harsh singing like, say, Metallica or even Running Wild (more rough than harsh)? I can't seem to both hit notes and be harsh at the same time...

Thanks in advance for your help.

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Toxraven
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:21 am
Posts: 3
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:10 am 
 

I'm training my voice, especially in black and death metal grawls. Also writing lyrics, which is going good. Just got a bit of a cold, which sucks.

I also have some good riffs for the drums and guitar in my head. But I can't play guitar, only a little, and I'm not so good at drums either, however, not fast.

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SpiralLoiter
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:03 am
Posts: 139
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:35 am 
 

Ah, I've got a good tip (sorry if someone gave it before, i'm not going to read the whole thread):

If you lost your voice (due to illness or whatever), just shut up. Don't make any sound for a day, and your voice will be back sooner than you expect.
:)

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Toxraven
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2007 4:21 am
Posts: 3
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 11:03 am 
 

Another thing, where do you guys get inspiration for lyrics? I get it from my life and what I read, but when I'm showering I make the song. Maybe because showering is boring, but then my songs sound the best!

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Frantic_Master
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:44 pm
Posts: 4
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 10:26 am 
 

I have been singing for several years and have just recently started with the growling portion. I think by starting out with thrash vocals(first some Slayer and Metallica, then moving onto Overkill), it makes it easier to growl.

I cannot sing quietly, even growling I sing loud enough as to annoy everyone in my apartment building. Most I have heard don't get much volume out of growls.

Ability-wise now I can cover pretty much every genre of metal singing except some power metal and NWOBHM, I wasn't born with a very good range, but by practice one can make the most of what they are given.

I'll try and record something soon, but the quality will suffer from my having to be outdoors when doing it.

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hornedatheist
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:54 am
Posts: 1
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 5:46 pm 
 

can anyone offer and effective warm-up tips? I usually hum with every muscle in my throat, but I was wondering what everyone else does.

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ViolentIllusion
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:07 am
Posts: 15
Location: Belgium
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:48 am 
 

You should check out the Zen Of Screaming by Melissa Cross. There's one scene that's completely handling about warming up.

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Sclera
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2006 4:13 am
Posts: 40
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:13 am 
 

Everyone who says drinking water before growling: you're halfway there, but you're missing an important detail. Warm water soothes the vocal chords and allows them to work better in a growling situation. Cold water shocks your vocal chords, and hot water just burns them.

All that said, I'm pretty shit at growling.

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