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Arkhane
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:39 pm
Posts: 1710
Location: South Texas
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:41 pm 
 

That's something you'll probably have to be shown in person. But most of the softer sung notes are about speaking level or just below speaking level. Mezzo-Piano I think is about speaking volume if you were talking to a small group in a small space.

If you don't know what mezzo-piano means, it means medium soft.
Piano - soft
Mezzo Piano - medium soft
Mezzo Forte - medium loud
Forte - Loud

Those are just basic volume guidelines they teach at a beginners level, like in school bands and such. There are many more levels and variations, but this is enough to get you started.
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CloggedUrethra
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2002 4:30 am
Posts: 339
Location: Ontario, Canada
PostPosted: Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:05 pm 
 

Opus wrote:
Just like all these incredibly fast Youtube death metal drummers. They have amazing technique that allows them to play along to the most difficult technical DM, but they will never become complete drummers, because they skipped the step where you learn to play AC/DC and James Brown grooves.

I wonder if there's someone on a Grooves forum telling someone else they won't be a complete drummer if they don't learn extreme tech-death.
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Opus
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 11:06 am
Posts: 2092
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:26 am 
 

CloggedUrethra wrote:
I wonder if there's someone on a Grooves forum telling someone else they won't be a complete drummer if they don't learn extreme tech-death.

Do you really need me to explain this for you?
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CloggedUrethra
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2002 4:30 am
Posts: 339
Location: Ontario, Canada
PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:48 am 
 

Learn the basics first, I get it. But just because a guy posts a tech death video on youtube doesn't mean he can't play grooves. Maybe I'm being too picky about your wording. :)
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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6724
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:59 am 
 

CloggedUrethra wrote:
Learn the basics first, I get it. But just because a guy posts a tech death video on youtube doesn't mean he can't play grooves. Maybe I'm being too picky about your wording. :)

However, it could be painfully apparent from listening and watching that said drummer isn't capable of playing grooves or basics.
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Arkhane
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:39 pm
Posts: 1710
Location: South Texas
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 6:56 pm 
 

Singing is not as complicated as drum work, if you can hold a note without sounding like a leaking balloon then you are fine most of the time.
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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6724
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:44 am 
 

Arkhane wrote:
Singing is not as complicated as drum work, if you can hold a note without sounding like a leaking balloon then you are fine most of the time.

Drumming is not as complicated as singing. As long as you can hit the drums in a beat, you're fine most of the time. :scratch:
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Arkhane
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:39 pm
Posts: 1710
Location: South Texas
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:48 pm 
 

Felt different for me. It took me forever to be able to differentiate my footwork from my hand work, but singing came natural to me. Maybe it's a preference thing, but singing requires concentration on only one thing; your voice. Drumming requires using your entire body and differentiating each limb from what your other limb is doing, and on a bad day you just wanna set your foot on fire for not behaving.
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somefella
Veteran

Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:57 pm
Posts: 2974
Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:03 am 
 

^I could wax lyrical about how hard it is to sing WELL, but I'm too lazy. Point is, it's quite a thick-headed claim that drumming is harder than singing. Or that anything is harder than anything. It's all too different to make direct comparisms.
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Arkhane
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:39 pm
Posts: 1710
Location: South Texas
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:01 pm 
 

somefella wrote:
^I could wax lyrical about how hard it is to sing WELL, but I'm too lazy. Point is, it's quite a thick-headed claim that drumming is harder than singing. Or that anything is harder than anything. It's all too different to make direct comparisms.

....Good point.
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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6724
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:17 am 
 

Just as you can take drumming beyond holding a simple beat of 4/4, you can take singing beyond holding a note without sounding like a leaking balloon, and with that comes the challenge. It's unreasonable to compare them in terms of difficulty, because it's impossible to set an equal benchmark of level of skill.

Singing has been taken much further in the classical music tradition than drumming and percussion, but that doesn't really mean anything in metal.
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Hatekindler
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 8:03 pm
Posts: 4
Location: Japan
PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 3:17 pm 
 

I'm a vocalist for my group Patriarchy (which is in hiatus since we never release anything)

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Arkhane
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:39 pm
Posts: 1710
Location: South Texas
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 2:24 am 
 

Hatekindler wrote:
I'm a vocalist for my group Patriarchy (which is in hiatus since we never release anything)
:| :thumbsup:

Anyway, I guess we should agree that each instrument is difficult in it's own standards. Including bass... unless you just follow the rhythm guitar, which case it depends how complicated that shit is.
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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6724
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:52 am 
 

Playing metal bass guitar satisfactorily can be rather easy, because listeners tend to set far lower standards for bass than they do for guitar. However, playing the same parts on bass guitar tends to be more difficult due to longer scale, heavier strings, fingerpicking techniques and the larger gaps between the strings.

In classical music, the double bass is considered to be a more forgiving instrument to play due to the enormous scale compared to the violin. It makes it much easier to intonate (play in the exact right pitch). There's an old joke: what do shipbuilding and playing the double bass have in common? An inch here or there makes no difference.
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Arkhane
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:39 pm
Posts: 1710
Location: South Texas
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:50 pm 
 

Yes that's true. A lot of metal musicians use picks for their bass though. At least the ones that I listen to. (Entirely coincidental, by the way)

But yes, I can write nice little licks on my guitar no problem. But when I try to do them on bass, it's like a much different world. You know how to walk and talk, but the dance is weird due to the change of gravity. Plus I can't fingerpick for shit.
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Another Typical Metal Newbie
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 5:20 pm
Posts: 67
Location: Venezuela
PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:26 pm 
 

http://www.mediafire.com/download/v1ybk ... ral%29.wma

So I have been making gutturals since a year ago, maybe, practicing first with some ELUVEITIE songs and then with Lamb of God, and then other bands (mostly deathcore and generic metalcore), but I'm not sure of something... I am inhaling or exhaling? I don't really know the difference... And it's true that I can get hurt by inhaling? I guess I'm inhaling because it was too easy for me to make the gutturals when I started making them...
The vocal cover it's from a babyish song in Spanish (Twinkle twinkle little star, something like that) with a Dark Funeral song's instrumental (Atrum Regina)... Why is it a cover from Twinkle twinkle little star? Well... I was bored...

PD: Sorry for my bad English.
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puggy
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2013 7:08 am
Posts: 77
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:25 am 
 

I've tried to get the hang of vocals (both clean and harsh) for a long time now, and it's been incredibly hit or miss for me - 95% miss. I've been told that I've done some good cleans and growls in the past, and, really, I hope that I'm capable of that, but I usually can't usually seem to get it. The fact that I have no confidence whatsoever is probably my biggest impediment here.

It's a 10 second clip, but here's me trying to imitate the chorus of Slaughter of the Soul. I tried the entire song before but I'd really rather not post that.
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MutantClannfear
Veteran

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 12:12 am
Posts: 2517
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:34 pm 
 

puggy wrote:
I've tried to get the hang of vocals (both clean and harsh) for a long time now, and it's been incredibly hit or miss for me - 95% miss. I've been told that I've done some good cleans and growls in the past, and, really, I hope that I'm capable of that, but I usually can't usually seem to get it. The fact that I have no confidence whatsoever is probably my biggest impediment here.

It's a 10 second clip, but here's me trying to imitate the chorus of Slaughter of the Soul. I tried the entire song before but I'd really rather not post that.

You need to scream, man! Scream to the point where it'll leave your throat sore for a while after you're done! Also, even if you're doing growls, you really need to raise your range out of vocal fry unless you're planning on doing really deep BDM toilet sewer vocals.
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Arkhane
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:39 pm
Posts: 1710
Location: South Texas
PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 3:27 pm 
 

Should I just post a short video tutorial of my vocal technique? I've been compared to Peter Tagtgren, but I'll leave the judgment to y'all. Plus I don't want to make a video if no one will watch it.
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hots_towel
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:19 am
Posts: 259
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:58 pm 
 

im by no means a vocalist, but in the event that i get a chance to start my solo project up, id feel weird recruiting a vocalist for the tracks. ive have since been practicing in the car, and that sealed the deal that I have no idea what I'm doing.

i tried going for the "brazilian thrash" type vocals (which of course are modeled after sarcofago/sepltura styles) but it sounded too forced. im not sure how to explain that, but it sounded obvious even to me that it wasn't m style.

after that I tried going for the ever popular old school black metal vocals. they might work if I practice it, but damn, i know im doing something wrong because I'll likely start coughing up a storm after 1 or 2 verses.
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Opinionated_Metaller
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2015 12:30 pm
Posts: 17
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:33 pm 
 

Does anyone have good advice on how to improve the tone of your harsh vocals? I notice that I sound kind of Gollum-ish when I try screaming. I'd like to get a hybrid black/melodeath vocal tone (in the vein of Wintersun, Bodom, Mark Jansen's higher vocals, etc.) Try recommending tips for me to follow so I can get the desired tone. (And if anyone wants to hear my speaking voice for comparison purposes, I have a YouTube account. It should be linked to in my homepage, which is on my profile.)
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Arkhane
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:39 pm
Posts: 1710
Location: South Texas
PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:55 pm 
 

http://youtu.be/hCmDiCsc5jw

It's not professional by any means, and I don't remember when it was recorded. But hopefully this helps.
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Mandalgen
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:57 pm
Posts: 13
Location: Venezuela
PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:58 pm 
 

Guys, what advice can you give me to both play bass guitar and sing? I'm now the 3rd member of this grindcore/death metal outfit and while I kind of did choruses in a hardcore punk band some time ago I've never really tried my hand at growling and playing the bass.

I kind of tried to do Spirit Crusher for a bit but I'd rather not talk about it.

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Grave_Wyrm
Veteran

Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 5:55 pm
Posts: 2636
Location: At the bottom of the lake
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 9:26 pm 
 

Mandalgen wrote:
Guys, what advice can you give me to both play bass guitar and sing?

Nothing better than systematic practice.
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d1g1c0ck
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat May 19, 2012 1:24 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Faroe Islands
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:17 am 
 

I can't really speak for regular singers, but as a harsh vocalist, I must say that it came a hell of a lot easier to me than any instrument did. But to me it is just refining the technique. It takes time and effort to improve your sound and variations, but I really don't find it difficult to lay down the works. When I play a show, I mostly focus on the theatrics, and the vocals are sort of on auto-pilot. I would compare growling to rapping, instead of clean singing. Once the technique is down, you're all set.

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