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SCMugen
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:02 pm
Posts: 165
Location: Israel
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:28 am 
 

http://www.myspace.com/120980797

This is me practicing the vocals for one of my band's songs. It's only the guitar pro backing track since we dont have anything recorded yet, so it doesnt sound as great as it should.

If you can criticize mostly the vocal lines and how (if at all) they fit the music, it's going to help alot, because I'm pretty much satisfied with every other aspect. But if you have any other comments that'd be cool too.

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Ulyoth
I'm controversial! LOOK AT ME!! plz?

Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:05 pm
Posts: 15
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:46 pm 
 

Well, I have been doing Death and Black vocals for about three years (I look like a newbie because I found this sight yesterday), and I have got to say that I agree with most of what has been said here, as far as throat care and such goes. Do not under any circumstances do Death vocals if your throat is dry or if you have a throat infection; I did a few times and I lost my growl for weeks at a time.
Another thing, there is a way to do Black vocals without just screaming: do a "cobra comander" voice and slowly work its intensity and volume just as you would for Death vocals. Also, when you do either vocal style, try to stand; it's just plain harder to do them sitting down. Oh yeah, weirdly enough, I've discovered that the better shape you are in, the easier and better your vocals are.
One more thing, you can increase your Death vocals volume by combining them with the "cobra comander" Black vocals.

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Ulyoth
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Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:05 pm
Posts: 15
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 4:11 pm 
 

Sorry, for posting a second time in a row, but I have what I feel to be some useful information that I had previously forgot. When doing Death, if you tuck in your chin, doing the really deep ones is a lot easier. When doing Black, craning your neck up helps a bit. Also, for reference, I can do any style of Death/Black vocals, and my range can go from Bill Steer and Karl Sanders to Dani Filth and early Ihsaan. It also helps if you can control your voice very well. I have a speaking voice that is middle range normally, but I change the pitch constantly as I talk (not in a weird way or nothing). PS I can also do Bubbles from the Powerpuff Girls. I'm not bragging, I'm just telling what anyone can do if they practice correctly.

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daimaru
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2007 3:35 am
Posts: 3
Location: Guam
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:27 am 
 

can you blow your throat/voice away by attempting to scream/growl?
it has happened to some vocalists like james hetfield which explains his current voice.

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Noktorn
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Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:31 pm
Posts: 2880
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:10 am 
 

daimaru wrote:
can you blow your throat/voice away by attempting to scream/growl?
it has happened to some vocalists like james hetfield which explains his current voice.


Only if you're doing it an extremely stupid and dangerous way. As a rule, when it starts to hurt: stop. You'll be fine if you just do that.
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crustcorestenchhead9
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:35 pm
Posts: 113
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:26 pm 
 

acctually it takes alot (assuming your doing your vocals conservativly) to ruin your voice even after it has been hurting. but yeah if you do stupid things you can fuck some shit up. with screams mostly, if you push the air out like your giving birth you will destroy your vocal chords. just be conservative and dont be a dumb ass.

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Noktorn
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:29 pm 
 

Yeah, it takes a lot to really hurt yourself, but there are plenty of fucking stupid kids who think that it 'makes you more hardcore' to rip up your throat.
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Morlock15
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:09 am
Posts: 2
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:09 pm 
 

Heyo, I'm the drummer in my band but I've been singing forever too. My parents signed me up for choir when I was 8 so I sing like Josh Groban. Not very metal. I can sing power metal relatively comfortably too, but my bands musical style is more along the melodic death metal style so we're trying to teach our tone deaf vocalist how to do death metal vocals. I can SORT of do the mid range crapcore vocals but I can't seem to do the low stuff AT ALL.

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MikzorTheFirst
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2007 1:00 pm
Posts: 6
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 2:33 pm 
 

-Pops out of nowhere-
I will sound like an ass but I'm only 15 and I can actually out-growl and scream (Death, Thrash and Black Metal style) many fullgrown men AND I can sing normally and Power Metal (I love to sing along Kamelot's songs, Khan is a God!). My point is that younger people shouldn't think that they can't do it because their voice hasn't developed entirely or something like that, with a lot of practicing you can do it!

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crustcorestenchhead9
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:35 pm
Posts: 113
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 3:14 pm 
 

well yeah im 15 too and i can do any style of vocals (screams, growls, inhales, the raspy voice, and clean vocals ). its not that younger people cant do vox because there voices arent fully matured yet its that youd be more likely to ruin the way your voice will sound once fully matured according to some people. you really dont even need practice exept to develope your style iv acctually taught my moms friends 5 year old son how to growl. ill say lets see those horns and he'll do the devil horns :headbang: and growl, its acctually kinda funny.

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Evil_Obsidian
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:05 pm
Posts: 395
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:16 pm 
 

I recorded an album 10 years ago with my band Malignant Saviour, at the age of 21. My vocals were mainly quite deep growls (ala Spiros from Septic Flesh) with some mid-range snarls (ala Jeff from Carcass).
After a gap of 8 years, I finally formed another band and my vocals were completely different but in an unexpected way: my growls were not as deep and the snarl had developed into a more black metal style, something I couldn't do previously. I also experimented quite a lot, and found I could do deranged vocals (ala Landferman from Bethlehem), but not without short term damage to my voice, such as losing it (after 4 hour rehearsals, it must be said).
My band are going into the studio for 10 days from Saturday, which I'm looking forward to. I plan to double track my vocals and mix up the styles, and will certainly be doing some of the deranged stuff, but I'll have to leave it 'til the end. Obviously in these circumstances, I can't afford to take a break whenever my voice hurts. Any recommendations for preserving my voice, and a quick recovery?

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sacrificer666
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:16 am
Posts: 140
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:21 am 
 

Evil_Obsidian wrote:
I recorded an album 10 years ago with my band Malignant Saviour, at the age of 21. My vocals were mainly quite deep growls (ala Spiros from Septic Flesh) with some mid-range snarls (ala Jeff from Carcass).
After a gap of 8 years, I finally formed another band and my vocals were completely different but in an unexpected way: my growls were not as deep and the snarl had developed into a more black metal style, something I couldn't do previously. I also experimented quite a lot, and found I could do deranged vocals (ala Landferman from Bethlehem), but not without short term damage to my voice, such as losing it (after 4 hour rehearsals, it must be said).
My band are going into the studio for 10 days from Saturday, which I'm looking forward to. I plan to double track my vocals and mix up the styles, and will certainly be doing some of the deranged stuff, but I'll have to leave it 'til the end. Obviously in these circumstances, I can't afford to take a break whenever my voice hurts. Any recommendations for preserving my voice, and a quick recovery?


well im a singer in a really fast thrash/death metal band and i usually just put my hands to the wall and scream as hard as i can. that usually makes my voice ready for anything. and when im in rehearsal with the band i have a lot of water with me, i almost drink 4 grasses between every song, and not because it hurts at the time but because i know that if i dont do it it will start hurting after some hours and thats just gonna make the voice weaker, in my experience at least! i hope it was to any help
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Evil_Obsidian
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:05 pm
Posts: 395
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:56 am 
 

sacrificer666 wrote:
Evil_Obsidian wrote:
I recorded an album 10 years ago with my band Malignant Saviour, at the age of 21. My vocals were mainly quite deep growls (ala Spiros from Septic Flesh) with some mid-range snarls (ala Jeff from Carcass).
After a gap of 8 years, I finally formed another band and my vocals were completely different but in an unexpected way: my growls were not as deep and the snarl had developed into a more black metal style, something I couldn't do previously. I also experimented quite a lot, and found I could do deranged vocals (ala Landferman from Bethlehem), but not without short term damage to my voice, such as losing it (after 4 hour rehearsals, it must be said).
My band are going into the studio for 10 days from Saturday, which I'm looking forward to. I plan to double track my vocals and mix up the styles, and will certainly be doing some of the deranged stuff, but I'll have to leave it 'til the end. Obviously in these circumstances, I can't afford to take a break whenever my voice hurts. Any recommendations for preserving my voice, and a quick recovery?


well im a singer in a really fast thrash/death metal band and i usually just put my hands to the wall and scream as hard as i can. that usually makes my voice ready for anything. and when im in rehearsal with the band i have a lot of water with me, i almost drink 4 grasses between every song, and not because it hurts at the time but because i know that if i dont do it it will start hurting after some hours and thats just gonna make the voice weaker, in my experience at least! i hope it was to any help


Actually, I laid down rough mix vocals in about 7 hours straight with no ill effects on Saturday. And I felt fine enough to do another 2 hours yesterday, so no ill effects (touch wood). The challenge is gonna be later when I do the final vocals.

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Noktorn
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 11:58 am 
 

I figured out how to do inhaled vocals yesterday, so I guess if anyone has questions about that, go ahead and ask.
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SCMugen
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:02 pm
Posts: 165
Location: Israel
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 12:05 pm 
 

Well, mine is pretty simple: How can I do it too?

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Noktorn
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 12:13 pm 
 

First off: you don't use your vocal chords at all. All the sound is produced simply by the air passing through your throat, constricted as to produce distortion. Second: you're not inhaling much air at all, so you're not going to be able to get a full breath before you have to stop.

For instance, if I want to do goregrind type growls: I open my throat up (more space is lower, less is higher, as you probably know) as much as I can, push my tongue against my lower front teeth, causing the tongue to arch, and sucking the air over the top of it down the throat.

A lot of people change pitch by constricting their throat more or less, but I do it mostly through mouth/tongue position/shape, giving more or less space for lower or higher tone, respectively. Generally, I can base the pitch based off how open my jaw is: very open for something that sounds almost pitch-shifted, almost closed for a pig squeal. It's mostly a matter of finding the position where your throat distorts. After you find that, you've got it.

Try drawing breath and slowly closing your throat with just the slightest sound from vocal chords until that sound distorts. Then play with the mouth/throat position until you find something and extrapolate off that.
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SCMugen
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:02 pm
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Location: Israel
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 12:19 pm 
 

Cool, I think that actually helped.

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Noktorn
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 2:38 pm 
 

Try practicing it to Waking The Cadaver. I just tried it out a little while ago, and I think nearly all the vocals they do are inhaled, except for the hardcore-sounding ones.
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Nyaricus
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:52 pm
Posts: 1242
PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:17 pm 
 

Joshulus wrote:
Plus the fact that they drink a shit-ton of water before/during/after a show, certainly helps the vocal chords.

I'm a screamer in a death metal band, and I have to say that getting in the habit of drinking a lot of water has greatly improved my vocal performance. Last jam session, I drank over a litre and a half of water over 3 hours, not to mention a fountain soda at lunch a while before practice.

What I've found is that drinking anything acidic (pop, citrus juices, energy drinks, etc) will cause your screams to die off much quicker then if you drank water before a performance.

I used to drink at least a litre of pop drinks a day; this caused dehydration and sickness like no other. Also, when I started to scream, I found that drinking Coke during practice, with it's "bite" to it, caused my screams to die off a lot faster. Now that I'm on a big turnaround in health in my life, I'm drinking a lot of water each day, and I find I no longer burn out as fast.

I was also doing some very high-pitched black metal screeches (I was trying out a new style, haha) and I found myself spitting up blood (this happened when I began to scream too, so I wasn't *that* concerned about it - I was just pushing some boundaries in my body which weren't used to getting pushed). Anyway, I took the advice upthread on drinking warm water with honey mixed in and found it was a charm. I wonder: would drinking tea with honey (which is a combination I love, BTW) work out to about the same thing? I saw/read someplace on the net that Dani Filth has said that at concerts he likes to drink tea. I think that warm (not hot tea, of course) with honey might have the same effect - and taste a lot better, as well.

Any thoughts?

cheers,
--N


Last edited by Nyaricus on Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ulyoth
I'm controversial! LOOK AT ME!! plz?

Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 1:05 pm
Posts: 15
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 12:35 pm 
 

yah, I've talked to Opera singers and they say that honey tea is the absolute best thing for the voice. Unfortunately, I am alergic to bees so this option is nonexistent for me. :puppy:
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Nyaricus
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:52 pm
Posts: 1242
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 2:41 am 
 

Ulyoth wrote:
yah, I've talked to Opera singers and they say that honey tea is the absolute best thing for the voice. Unfortunately, I am alergic to bees so this option is nonexistent for me. :puppy:

Really now? That's interesting, then...

Do you mean you're allergic to bee stings though? If that's the case, I would assume then that you could have honey with no side affects. Have you spoken with a doctor about this?

Anyway, thanks for the tip :headbang: Keep 'er heavy.

cheers,
--N

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SnostormenFyr
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:54 am
Posts: 58
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 4:09 am 
 

I can do pretty good Behemoth and Dub Buk vocals...even thought those bands have nothing in common =D.

Growling is really easy for those with the right voice.

Black Metal vocals take a little more practice.

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pwd666
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:33 am
Posts: 243
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 10:59 am 
 

Noktorn wrote:
I figured out how to do inhaled vocals yesterday, so I guess if anyone has questions about that, go ahead and ask.


I've been doing growls to practice now and again, but I never really tried inhaled. What effect does it have, like a Demilich sound? And you might as well explain to me how you do it. Thanks.

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Noktorn
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Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:31 pm
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 8:43 pm 
 

pwd666 wrote:
Noktorn wrote:
I figured out how to do inhaled vocals yesterday, so I guess if anyone has questions about that, go ahead and ask.


I've been doing growls to practice now and again, but I never really tried inhaled. What effect does it have, like a Demilich sound? And you might as well explain to me how you do it. Thanks.


I described how to do them above.

There are about four things I can do with them so far:

-Ultra-low goregrind vocals
-Pig squeals
-The mid-range stuff you hear in Aborted or Waking The Cadaver
-The 'predators' that you hear in Heinous Killings, which it seems not many people can do.
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Emperor_Of_Ice
Butterfly Sister Marjoram

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 11:39 pm
Posts: 449
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 10:56 am 
 

Noktorn wrote:
pwd666 wrote:
Noktorn wrote:
I figured out how to do inhaled vocals yesterday, so I guess if anyone has questions about that, go ahead and ask.


I've been doing growls to practice now and again, but I never really tried inhaled. What effect does it have, like a Demilich sound? And you might as well explain to me how you do it. Thanks.


I described how to do them above.

There are about four things I can do with them so far:

-Ultra-low goregrind vocals
-Pig squeals
-The mid-range stuff you hear in Aborted or Waking The Cadaver
-The 'predators' that you hear in Heinous Killings, which it seems not many people can do.

Inhaled vocals are incredibly easy to pull off and their is virtually no strain whatsoever, at least not for those über-low Demilich type vocals. I haven't tried much else with them, but I've been playing with them since long before I was listening to metal, only because I thought they sounded cool. :) One other thing I can do with them (may be one of the things Noktorn mentioned, but I'm not familiar with those bands, so I can't say): In Cowboys from Hell, Phil Anselmo lets out this insane "Nazgul" shriek. That's inhaled. Sometimes, I can pull them off, othertimes, it makes my throat itchy as all hell and I start coughing. It doesn't hurt though, just itches.

To do that, you constrict the throat and begin opening your mouth wider and wider.
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Noktorn
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 11:17 am 
 

The predators are pretty interesting. It produces this weird, rapid insect clicking noise. Mine aren't as well defined as those in Heinous Killings, but they still sound cool.
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Emperor_Of_Ice
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Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 11:39 pm
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 6:37 pm 
 

Noktorn wrote:
The predators are pretty interesting. It produces this weird, rapid insect clicking noise. Mine aren't as well defined as those in Heinous Killings, but they still sound cool.

Just tried that; certainly could have some great effects... At least I think I got it. It has the qualities you describe, but I'll check the band out to see if I got it right. Man, if I knew that bands actually used inhaled vocals I would've joined a band years ago! :lol:

Oh, another thing. People are always talking about how pig squeals are so easy to do, but I can't figure it out. Not so much that I want to join a piggy band or anything, but... it's good to learn... 'CAUSE KNOWLEDGE IS POWER!!
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Noktorn
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 7:10 pm 
 

Emperor_Of_Ice wrote:
Oh, another thing. People are always talking about how pig squeals are so easy to do, but I can't figure it out. Not so much that I want to join a piggy band or anything, but... it's good to learn... 'CAUSE KNOWLEDGE IS POWER!!


It's just a basic inhaled growl, but you constrict your throat until it gets the squeal.
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Emperor_Of_Ice
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 7:29 pm 
 

Noktorn wrote:
Emperor_Of_Ice wrote:
Oh, another thing. People are always talking about how pig squeals are so easy to do, but I can't figure it out. Not so much that I want to join a piggy band or anything, but... it's good to learn... 'CAUSE KNOWLEDGE IS POWER!!


It's just a basic inhaled growl, but you constrict your throat until it gets the squeal.

Hmm? Don't know if I know how to do inhaled growls... I'll try it later. Time for poop, then sleep, then homework. Just had one of my Behemoth pizzas... Epic.
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Homovore
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed May 09, 2007 2:09 pm
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 2:18 pm 
 

Does anyone know any good tips to get a more guttural growl??

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thinkpad20
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:35 pm
Posts: 389
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 4:11 pm 
 

Homovore wrote:
Does anyone know any good tips to get a more guttural growl??

As with most growling techniques, the more you close your mouth the more gutteral it gets. Pursing your lips can definitely help. But you have to have the basic growl down... and that is something you just have to find for yourself.

Also note that a lot of the sound of a growl comes from the recording/micing techniques used, so if it doesn't sound right it might not be your fault. For example, cupping the microphone Frank Mullen style when you growl can produce a great gutteral sound. Also the EQ can make a difference.
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Emperor_Of_Ice
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 1:24 am 
 

Noktorn wrote:
Emperor_Of_Ice wrote:
Oh, another thing. People are always talking about how pig squeals are so easy to do, but I can't figure it out. Not so much that I want to join a piggy band or anything, but... it's good to learn... 'CAUSE KNOWLEDGE IS POWER!!


It's just a basic inhaled growl, but you constrict your throat until it gets the squeal.

Oh, that is easy. But like that Nazgul type shriek, it itches the hell outta my throat and I can't keep it up. No pain, but it ITCHES!!!

Any tips for helping with that? Aside from warm tea, water, etc.
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ViolentIllusion
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:07 am
Posts: 15
Location: Belgium
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 5:58 am 
 

To remember lyrics you have to make sure that the lyrics talk about one subject. don't go like this : "I run into darkness.My soul's in atrophy." It has nothing to do with each other. Make sure every single song has lyrics that tell about the same subject. For example the destruction of a church ( pure old school Nors black ) : "Religion's fading.Believing is surreal.Kingdom of god is drowning away." Ok, i know. Bad lyric, but it's just the very first thing I thought off. I Hope this might help. If it doesn't : then just repeat the lyrics over and over again untill you can remember them completely.

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crustcorestenchhead9
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 9:35 pm
Posts: 113
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 3:28 pm 
 

Homovore wrote:
Does anyone know any good tips to get a more guttural growl??


what i do is i growl with my lips in the O shaped of course and i stick my tounge on the roof of my mouth it makes it real deep

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crustcorestenchhead9
Metal newbie

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Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 3:29 pm 
 

oh and when you guys refer to "black metal vocals" are you talking about the high pitched ones like used in the black dahlia murder? they sound the same to me exept the black bands sound like they use an echo effect on them.

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doomgrind
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:41 am
Posts: 106
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 7:19 am 
 

I recorded a few sample growls in Audacity, and the only effect I used was a little bit of reverb. Could someone please have a listen and validate them. I know they suck, but I'd like the opinion and advice of someone more experienced.

Here they are: http://www.sendspace.com/file/5wihnp
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pwd666
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Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2005 11:33 am
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 6:11 pm 
 

doomgrind wrote:
I recorded a few sample growls ...
Those samples have something really odd about them, possibly too much reverb and might not be close enough to recording device. Try growling a simple sentence or something, perhaps even over a song. Those samples are just too inaudible for me (and probably others) to listen to and evaluate.

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doomgrind
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2007 7:06 pm 
 

Okay, thanks for the advice.
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crustcorestenchhead9
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PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2007 5:42 pm 
 

yo does anybody know how to do airraid sirens and can explain how to get your voice to "siren". i can do the high pitched woman clean vocals that are in power metal but cant get my voice to go up and down and get that effect.

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Emperor_Of_Ice
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Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 11:39 pm
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 11:27 am 
 

crustcorestenchhead9 wrote:
yo does anybody know how to do airraid sirens and can explain how to get your voice to "siren". i can do the high pitched woman clean vocals that are in power metal but cant get my voice to go up and down and get that effect.

...you can't change your pitch? :scratch: Curious...
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