Lord Marco has an instructional DVD that is for sale on his myspace. It covers everything for metal drumming. It is pretty cheap too. Check it out:

http://www.myspace.com/lordmarc0

Also, a good way to strengthen and stabilize single strokes is by doing diddles like RR LL as sixteenth notes, then do flam taps, then do single triplets (RRR LLL), then do flam triplets (fRRR fLLL), then do single quadruples (RRRR LLLL), and then do single flam quadruples (fRRRR fLLLL)

Work on each one for a few weeks before moving up to the next one. it increases your stroke by one (except between the flam triplet and quadruple cause that is just for stability practice). Eventually you get up to five strokes because the flams overlap.

Just a thought

Isn't it called flange notes? Unless they're the same thing.

Anyway, have you tried doing RRLL technique with your feet? Holy shit, that's hard, but it really helps with limb independence. Even doing that with your hands is bloody hard, as we are just more accustomed to using the RLRL technique (which is normal! ). Also paradiddles (RLRRLRLL) is a good technique to learn.

I did some double-kicking at drumming lessons, and I found I could get a good speed happening...faster than I had previously done before. Keep in mind that the double-kick he has is a Pearl and is infinitely easier to use than mine. Nevertheless, my teacher even commented on how fast I've gotten compared to, say, six months ago. Hopefully I'll be able to keep it up and improve on that in the coming months.

I'll also check out Lord Marco's MySpace for that DVD - it would be great to see how one of the fastest drummers around plays with his own technique.

And for all those intersted: The band Martyr (Can) has merchandise on their MySpace and official page (which I shall purchase some of when I get some cash), and one item is a book of the drums on "Warp Zone". Of course, they only have the guitar and bass lines for the other two albums. It could be a worthy purchase.

Flam and Flange are the same thing. I am just used to saying flam. I wonder if it is a geographic thing? Oh well.

Good idea about doing the doubles with the feet. I think Thomas Lang does that too. Well, I bet many drummers do it actually, but i remember him on a video one time. Oh well...

Yea, I was doing some double bass rudiments at drum lessons the other night and its good because it helps independence. I was doing the doubles with bouncing too. Like the slide up the pedal thing. Starting to catch on, its pretty sweet.

So what are you favourites of drumming
1. All out Favourite Drummer
2. Favourite Genre To Play
3. Favourite Part of Just Playing

For me...

1: Marco Minneman. I love the all out technicality he has, and as showed in Necrophagist hes got speed to go with it. And I especially like how he infuses other genres into his metal playing.

2: Metal, Prog things
3: Playing with people and just jamming. Love the feel of just creating music. One o' mine passions as gay as that sounds.

Kai Hahto. He can do any style from death metal to jazz and make it look easy.



Stoner/groove metal.



Breaking cymbals.

Surprisingly, I've never broken a cymbal...

I haven't in some time, I think they're making them better. Either that or it's because I don't play as much anymore.

Yea they could just be making them better. Then again, i'm not a very loud drummer, so it could be that im not hitting the cymbal hard enough to break.

Oh, I have. One of mine now has a big-ass crack around it, and chunks of it are missing. It's dead.

I'm going to buy a Pearl Export kit in a couple of days! I'm excited. It's only going to cost $1699. It's black, too, so it's a lot sweeter. I wanted an extra bass drum, and the guy said he could order one for $699, so all up it would cost $2398, but he said he could cut the price down to $1900 and give me a set of Zildjian cymbals free!!

I just pray that the kit is still there when I go back.

Damn, nice.
I need a new one too :/

I got that exact kit (black pearl export double bass drums) for a $1000. No cymbals or hi hat came with it, but a hi hat stand and 2 cymbal stands came with it...great kit.

Well, this one is going to be a 6-piece (snare + bass drum + floor tom + 3 toms) with a hi-hat included, and he was going to throw in some cymbals. So I think I'm getting a sweet deal, too.

Gawd damn thats sick that you get a free set of ziljdians...im terribly jealous. Reminds me of how much I want a new set..

Well, I hope I get the same guy I taked to a few days ago, and he remembers the deals he was giving me. I'll know by this time tomorrow. Fingers crossed.

Sounds like a pretty good deal. Those free Zildjians sound pretty sweet. Mine is a double bass, snare, 2 floor toms, 3 toms, cymbal and hi hat stands. If I were to have gotten cymbals with it it would have cost up to $2000, so I think you got a deal. Be aware though, my first drumkit said came with a 'free Zildjian cymbal' and it was a piece of crap...seriously. Like banging on a tin sheet. I have a Sabian stage crash and a Sabian El Sabor crash/ride. Both are fantastic cymbals.

WOOHOO!!!!! I bought my kit!!! :D:D:D

They didn't have a second Pearl bass drum, and the guy said it would take about 4 months to get it! I wasn't happy with that, but thankfully he had a Pearl double bass pedal - the same pedal I was going to get in single. And he reduced the price of that, so it was again a sweet deal. And the drums came with bags, which the guy selling me the drum kit didn't even know! So I'm all like "yes! More freebies!"

So all up: Bass drum + 2nd bass drum ordered + 3 toms + floor tom + snare + Zildjian ride + Zildjian splash + Zildjian crash + hi-hat + stool + bits of other shit = $2200.

It's all in pieces in my car. So if you'll all excuse me, I'm going to spend the next 48 hours figuring out how to set it up properly!

-- Michael

How do you guys stay in time when it gets fast?

I have no clue if I am playing in time when I can't count as fast as I am playing.

(in particular kick drum)

edit: by trying to pay attention to my metronome while playing I figured my limit was 100 BPM at 16th notes. By analyzing a recording and doing some math I was correct! So I guess just by paying really close attention I can estimate?

I just set up my kit! I had a bit of a play but now I have to go to work. Oh well, I'll play tomorrow. The double bass pedals are infinitely better than the old ones I had. I can already feel myself getting better juyst from the few minutes I played.

Oh, and I REALLY need to get some fans in there. I just sweat like a waterfall, and that's not even an exaggeration.



When they get fast, I have trouble, as well. I think you just need to pick a speed that's slightly uncomfortable, then master that, and keep getting a little faster each time. Suddenly playing at 200bpm won't get you (or me) anywhere.

I just came upon this crazy solo by Marco Minneman:
http://www.metalinjection.net/tv/summerslaughter/


This link doesnt go directly to the solo, but you can find it very easily.

It depends, in my experience, on how you hit it. I always angle my cymbals slightly towards me so when I hit, my stick isn't stiking the edge at a 90 degree angle. I also angle my swing. The flat of the stick (or the tip, in case of the ride) is hitting the flat of the cymbal at an angle. By moving the stick in a circular pattern, it lets it hit the cymbal at a glance and not dead-on. Now, there's a time when dead-on is necessary, but for the most part, it's not, and it amounts to wasted energy and busted equipment. Still, part of me gets off when I see a chunk of metal split off of the cymbal, and some cymbals sound pretty good with a nice crack in them. I had a Zildjian A Custom Projection Ride 20" that I used to beat on relentlessly as a crash, and when it cracked, it sounded better. I have it on a recording and it sounds like some odd China-type, had a nice ring and a static-sounding decay that just sizzled on tape. Sadly, once they crack there's no holding them to just the one crack, and I had to eventually toss the old thing.

Can I ask where you live that a Pearl Export kit costs $1699? Damn, that's expensive. When I bought a 5 piece Export three years ago they were only $700. Man, I'd shop on Craigslist and try to get something more for that much money, you could probably pick up a nice twin-kick set with cymbals for under a thousand.

Edit- since you already bought it, good luck with it. I hope you got good Zildjians with it, at least.

I'm not an expert on double bass by any means, but I would say, when it gets fast and you can't count the notes individually, count them by groups of 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, or whatever you need to do so that you can still count but not get lost. I tried to actually score it out but it didn't come out when I posted it. Hopefully someone can explain it better.

Wow, I thought I got a good deal. I don't live in any major city, so the choices around here are fairly limited. They had a few other drum kits in the store I went to, but they were not as good. I think they were a little cheaper, but I can't really remember.

Living in Australia doesn't really do my choices any good, either. The guy said that the second bass drum will take about 4 months to get here, and I'm really considering just canceling that order, as I don't really have the room for it, and the double bass pedal I have works well.

Maybe it was a bit of a rip-off, but I don't really care too much - it's a great kit! I played it properly for the first time earlier today, and I could literally feel myself getting better with each passing minute. The addition of a smaller tom and a splash cymbal (with each I've never had before! ) just makes it all that much sweeter. I need another crash, as I've only got one. Maybe in the future, I'll get a second floor tom and a china cymbal, but for now, I'm lovin' it!

I didn't see that you lived in Australia, yeah, things might be more expensive unless they're manufactured there. My bad on that. They're just a lot cheaper in the USA.

1. Chris Pennie (ex-Dillinger Escape Plan) - 1 word; technicality. Some of his shit is insanely hard to comprehend.

2. Not really sure. Probably grindcore/mathcore (I know, I know) type shit (The Partisan Turbine, Into the Moat, etc)

3. Playing shows and live sound, as well as practice. Jamming rules too.

Yeah, I asked my drum teacher, and he said it's a fact that it's cheaper to order things from America than to buy in Australia. Nevertheless, my kit is now awesome.

Would it be cheaper to buy zildjian in turkey then? Meaning, is it cheaper to buy from where the company is situated?

If you lived in Turkey, perhaps. It depends on the relative value of the currency they use there and what taxes may be involved. I really don't know how much, relatively speaking, they would sell for, because I've never been to Turkey.

Yea it probably does depend on the currency. Plus the shipping is most likely involved in the price for other countries. Anyways, I was watching the modern drummer festival for 2006 and I saw the Death Cab for Cutie guy up there. Yes I know..death cab for cutie. Well lo and behold...this guy was incredible. He's actually extremely talented even if he's in a shitty band. Which leads me, what are drummers that surprise you with their talent?

Ken Shalk from Candiria. I've seen him do ungodly things with a four piece drumset, single bass drum pedal, one crash, one ride, one hi-hat. The most basic jazz set, and he lit it up like nothing I have ever seen before or since.

Oh gawd...Danney Carey is fucking ridiculous. I saw him tonight at the tool concert. He dominated the opening band's drummer in a drum battle. They went back and forth and every turn Carey had made the other drummer look like a piece of shit even though he wasn't actually that bad. The opening band's (Trans Am) drummer had a 4 piece set though. He did pretty well with that

Does anyone have roto-toms? Are they worth it?

Actually, Zildjian is only founded in Turkey. I think they're nowadays mostly developed and made in US.
As it goes generally with that thought, Paiste isn't any cheaper in here or Estonia compared to Germany or USA.

I decided to cancel my order for the second bass drum. I realised that I didn't quite have the room for it, and it was pointless, considering I have a double-kick pedal that works fine.

So I go into the store and ask the guy to cancel, and he said I was just in time, as they were ready to accept the money and start working on it. The guy said that because he gave it to me discounted, he could only give me store credit. This store credit ended up being $549.80! I was stoked.

So we tried out a few cymbals, and I ended up buying a Zildjian A-Custom fast crash and a Pearl stand. The cool thing is, both of them together turned out to be more than the store credit I had, yet he discounted it, and now I have $20 left!

My kit is slowly expanding and I love it.

Happened to test the new set of Zildjian, Armand? I just bought 4 of 'em, the sound is swell. Little like A-Custom but warmer.

Next in line would probably be some Alchemy effect symbals, and maybe a test-cymbal of Orion.

I used to have a set when I first started playing, but I got rid of them. I just didn't like the way they sounded, like you were hitting the bottom of an empty coffee can. Bleh.

Good to hear, man, but Jeezus, shit's expensive in Oz. How big is the crash cymbal?

I think there was one there, by memory. I'll be getting more cymbals when I have the cash.



Yeah, I know it's expensive, but as an Australian, I have no other option. Even the huge drum shop in Sydney is expensive. I guess that's the way things are in this country. It's 16".

Wut?! So 16" A-Custom Crash with a regular Pearl Stand costed over 550 $?
Thomann has it on 230 €, but Australia comes again.
Btw, Armand-set might be cheaper, so you should definitely try them out next time you visit there. The sound is quite similar to A-custom. I bought (second) 14" hi-hat, (second) 20" ride, 18" heavy/medium crash and a 10" splash of that set in a whole of 1000 €. Got also drumsticks, Zildjian-book and a nice bag with them. :cool: