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TalonTheater
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 5:02 pm
Posts: 20
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 6:04 am 
 

Noktorn wrote:
TalonTheater wrote:
dumbFuck wrote:
sounds tough ! definitely something i wan to try !


If you're a new drummer, definitely don't try blast beats for a few years. You'll just end up fucking up your doublebass playing, and you'll have to relearn it all. I've seen it happen.


Raymond Herrera would like a word with you.


I haven't heard any Fear Factory, but until you show me he's anywhere near as good at double bass as Bobby Jarzombek, my statement still stands.

Also, dumbFuck, it'll come with time, as long as you take it slow. Try some more slow, but rhythmically complex stuff on bass drums, like Portnoy or Gorski, before you go for the "brainless-yet-challenging" stuff. :)

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latinfiestacarnage
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 8:27 pm
Posts: 492
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 8:25 pm 
 

also i like the double bass in downfall by children of bodom
and of course the classic one by metallica has some good double bass
also syl drummer gene hoglan has some pretty intense double bass skillz

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latinfiestacarnage
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 8:27 pm
Posts: 492
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 8:25 pm 
 

also i like the double bass in downfall by children of bodom
and of course the classic one by metallica has some good double bass
also syl drummer gene hoglan has some pretty intense double bass skillz
tons of metal drummers are pretty proficient at double bass but i have to go so thats all i can think of really quickly

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latinfiestacarnage
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 8:27 pm
Posts: 492
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 8:26 pm 
 

oops sorry double post accidentally

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TalonTheater
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 5:02 pm
Posts: 20
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 8:47 pm 
 

You apologize by making a triple post? :P

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latinfiestacarnage
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 8:27 pm
Posts: 492
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 10:37 pm 
 

no if i had said the same thing 3 times it would be a triple post. the third post was saying sorry cuz im just such a nice guy which is different sheesh, and you could have at least replied to the double post

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thinkpad20
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:35 pm
Posts: 389
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 11:01 pm 
 

latinfiestacarnage wrote:
no if i had said the same thing 3 times it would be a triple post. the third post was saying sorry cuz im just such a nice guy which is different sheesh, and you could have at least replied to the double post

You know, you can delete a post unless it has been replied to. Also, the best way to apologize for a double post, assuming you couldn't delete it, would be to edit the apology in (there's a button in the corner).

As to your post, the dude from CoB bores me to tears, Lars Ulrich sucks ass, but Gene Hoglan is of course awesome. Nevertheless there are just way too many great drummers in metal to make that selection. If you are going for pure double bass speed, though, some of the better known names in the business are Derek Roddy (Hate Eternal), Tim Yeung (Hate Eternal, Decrepit Birth, Vital Remains), Pete Sandoval (Morbid Angel), David Haley (Psycroptic), Hellhammer (every black metal band in Scandinavia) and anyone who's been in Nile. Though that's just the tip of the iceberg; the list stretches on vast and endless...
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latinfiestacarnage
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 8:27 pm
Posts: 492
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 12:17 am 
 

oh well thanks,
but yea i just added lars ulrich for the classic-ness of one
i can't remember it off the top of my head but i remember hearing about the guy who won the fastest double bass thing for the world. anyone remember his name or the bpm in the record?

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thinkpad20
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:35 pm
Posts: 389
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 12:50 am 
 

latinfiestacarnage wrote:
i can't remember it off the top of my head but i remember hearing about the guy who won the fastest double bass thing for the world. anyone remember his name or the bpm in the record?

The guy you might be remembering is Tim Yeung, who I mentioned before. He won a WFD (world's fastest drummer) competition with ~858 single strokes in a minute (i.e. ~429 hits for each foot, alternating between the two), if I remember the number correctly. That wasn't the world record though. The current recordholder as far as I know is Tim Waterton (Waterson?) at something like 1,100 in a minute. That guy isn't a metal dude as far as I know though, and apparently not much of a drummer in general.
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latinfiestacarnage
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 8:27 pm
Posts: 492
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 10:00 pm 
 

I know (well i think so, im pretty sure) that mike mangini holds the singles records and i saw something about him winning a 15 minute endurance record for double bass

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latinfiestacarnage
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 8:27 pm
Posts: 492
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 12:39 am 
 

not double bass singles, hand singles

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HAZZILHAR
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:39 pm
Posts: 1
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 2:35 pm 
 

Montu_Sekhmet wrote:
elTobe wrote:
Chryxtolf wrote:
Finally, a forum for the rest of us. I tried to create on in the Metal Disscusion, but that went to hell fast. Anyways, can anyone recommend me a outragiously good (not just good, outragiously, or kick-assly good) Metal drummer? Like, maybe the guy from
:headbang: Origin :headbang: ? Or better? I don't know...just trying to learn/improve some techniques. Or even if anyone has any good tips/techniques on drumming that are not too common, perhaps?

Kickass metal drummers? Hmm let's see Dave lombardo (slayer), Pete sandoval (Morbid angel), Hellhammer (Mayhem & Dimmu Borgir session-drums), Nicholas Barker (ex-Cradle of Filth and Dimmu Borgir) and many many more


Dan Mullins from Bal Sagoth. Fastest player on th planet. Great kit sound too.


You said fastest ??? Watch the man in GORGASM,Tomasz Pilasiewicz. He's beating like lightning and you can not see any symptoms of fatigue on him! He's actually my idol.Click here to watch him ;)

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latinfiestacarnage
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 8:27 pm
Posts: 492
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 7:14 pm 
 

Hmm...speed.
Dave Mackintosh is pretty damn fast
Marco Minnemann is also quite good at playing fast
and yea i listened to the GORGASM guy and he was pretty damn good
but yea there are thousands of quick drummers and those are just 2

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Andyminion
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:18 pm
Posts: 215
Location: United Kingdom
PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 5:53 pm 
 

"He won a WFD (world's fastest drummer) competition with ~858 single strokes in a minute (i.e. ~429 hits for each foot, alternating between the two), if I remember the number correctly. That wasn't the world record though. The current recordholder as far as I know is Tim Waterton (Waterson?) at something like 1,100 in a minute. "


Thats true but Waterson used heel/toe double strokes whereas Tim Yeung used single strokes.

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latinfiestacarnage
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 8:27 pm
Posts: 492
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 12:02 am 
 

What is the hardest type of music to play in your opinion? this question asked because of the thread i saw on the metal forum, is rock harder to play than metal?

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Kicker_of_Elves
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:49 am
Posts: 30
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 10:48 pm 
 

drumming is probably the instrumental aspect of metal that stands out most in sheer technicality compared to most rock music. there are many great guitarists/bassists/vocalists in genres other than metal, but the extreme speed and rhythmic complexity of (some) metal drumming isn't present in any music i've heard except some of that fusion stuff.

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latinfiestacarnage
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 8:27 pm
Posts: 492
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2007 12:12 am 
 

Yea, I agree. Like in a metal song the endurance needed to play a whole song very fast is needed while in rock, you don't need to go fast (not saying all metal is fast) but the metal style of drumming is not seen in rock. One thing though, I think the difficulty depends on you. Whatever you practice more is what you will find easier. For example i don't think the best jazz drummer in the world could play metal as well as most metal drummers, but then again a metal drummer wouldn't be able to play jazz as well as most jazz drummers. Although this point proven wrong by many people, namely the necrophagist drummer. but still

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satansrevenge
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 1:51 pm
Posts: 4
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 5:14 pm 
 

Who is your guys favroite drummer or drummers. Or who you think is good i dont care just name ones you like and what gbands they are in.

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satansrevenge
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 1:51 pm
Posts: 4
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 5:24 pm 
 

my Vocalist of my band just showed me this guy he is pretty sick.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOYT3TjwRkU

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satansrevenge
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 1:51 pm
Posts: 4
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2007 7:16 pm 
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7LMCzfeftg

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thinkpad20
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 6:35 pm
Posts: 389
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 11:24 am 
 

satansrevenge wrote:
my Vocalist of my band just showed me this guy he is pretty sick.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOYT3TjwRkU

Yeah, he's pretty fucking great. It's cool that he uses traditional grip too. The only guy I've seen other than him playing blast beats with traditional grip is the dude from Alarum. And this Pierce guy hits fucking HARD too! Very impressive. I just hope he finds himself a good band.
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satansrevenge
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon May 28, 2007 1:51 pm
Posts: 4
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 5:01 pm 
 

He use to be in black dahlia murder.

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latinfiestacarnage
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 8:27 pm
Posts: 492
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 12:06 pm 
 

Marco Minemmann of necrophagist is a machine. i like Dave Mackintosh too, dragonforce. George Kollias is also amazing. Basically all these guys are incredible when playing fast. i can appreciate the endurance needed

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martinmatte
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2002 12:31 pm
Posts: 10
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 10:39 pm 
 

For those of you who have not seen this:

http://www.georgekollias.com/index2.htm

The Nile segment is the greatest.All you hear are drums with a little of the whole mix in the front so it's a real life combat situation.Blinding speed, deadly accuracy and total commitment to the song.Unbelievable.I only wish there would be Gene Hoglan stuff like that out.
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latinfiestacarnage
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 8:27 pm
Posts: 492
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 12:39 am 
 

yea, hes truly amazing...all i can say

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RegularK
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:24 pm
Posts: 740
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2007 8:05 pm 
 

I am going to be purchasing a drum set in the next month or so.

I have no clue what I am looking for in a set, or even the faintest idea how to play drums.

A friend of mine has a set that he is selling for $200 (he says original price is $800) According to him, its in good condition, some of the hides have been replaced and most if it is Pearl although some of it is Broadway. It has 1 snare, 1 hihat, 2 cymbals, 2 toms and bass. Currently I do not know much more about it. Does this deal sound good (from this limited information)?

Can any body recommend me any books or internet sites that teach the basics of drums?

And also, what exactly I'm I looking for in a drum set for playing metal? I expect I'd be mostly playing black metal but I'll probably play all kinds of metal. What kind of pedal would most ideal for the bass (although that may come down to personal preference, but for a beginner)?

My budget is about $200, although I am not positive (it may go all the way to $600) as I am not paying for it (its a gift)

When I do purchase a drum set, what other accessories would I need? Some sticks of course, what about some extra hides? metronome?

Any help or suggestions are welcome, thank you!

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Nasrudin
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:20 pm
Posts: 10
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 7:56 pm 
 

The Pearl set will be fine for a beginner. I've never heard of Broadway so I can't say anything about its quality, but since he's your friend, he'll probably let you know about any issues. Without knowing what series the drums are, we can't really say if its a good deal. High-quality gear isn't that important when beginning, but if you get into a band you may want to consider getting some nice cymbals.

As for books, maybe try "A Funky Rock Primer" by...Charles Dowd, I think. There's another really good book, but the name escapes me at the moment. It has a reddish-pink cover and goes over a ton of stuff, mostly rock, but it touches on jazz and afro-cuban near the end. A lot of people recommend "Groove Essentials" by Tommy Igoe. Also, check out vicfirth.com, lots of good lessons on there.

Most beginner/intermediate drums are made in "rock sizes." That is, the sizes of the shells are made to give louder sound, as opposed to a fusion or jazz kit, which has smaller dimensions. Getting the metal sound largely comes from the tuning of the drums. You'll probably want to replace the drum heads that he hasn't replaced. Do a search for the Drum Tuning Bible, which is a good site that has everything about tuning. Or have your friend do it before he sells them to you. You may want to put either Moongel or some tape on the heads to give them more of a thud sound, which is common in metal. It's up to you though to find the sound you like.

For pedals, I would suggest using whatever pedal (if any) comes with the set. Start out with a single pedal and get your right foot down before you add another.

As far as other accessories, maybe a couple pairs of sticks and definitely a metronome. A practice pad comes in handy if you want to practice technique without disturbing family/neighbors.

Damn that's a long post.

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RegularK
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:24 pm
Posts: 740
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:04 pm 
 

Thank you.

(I'm not sure what he meant by Broadway when he said it, I assume he meant brand name)

Are there any little "games" I can play now to work up some basic coordination? I've heard some drummers on here mention "paradiddles" or something like that??

I am pretty poor when it comes to coordinating my body.

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latinfiestacarnage
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 8:27 pm
Posts: 492
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:03 pm 
 

these "games" would be your rudiments. these are things like singles, doubles, paradiddles, double paradiddles, paradiddlediddles, rolls, etc. if you don't know what these are ill tell you the basic ones

l - left hand r - right hand
Singles - r, l, r, l, r etc
Doubles - r, r, l, l, r, r, l, l, etc
Paradiddle - r, l, r, r, l, r, l, l, r, l, r, r, l, r, l, l etc
Double Paradiddle - r, l, r, l, r, r, l, r, l, r, l, l, etc
Paradiddlediddle right handed - r, l, r, r, l, l, r, l, r, r, l, l, etc
" " left handed - l, r, l, l, r, r, l, r, l, l, r, r, etc

All these you can practice buy yourself anywhere and will definitely help improve your hand coordination. And if you learn your basic. And i agree with the previous post (to lazy to quote) don't buy a double bass pedal until your right foot is ready. And if you really want you can do all those rudiments with your feet just to practise for when you do get a double bass (and it will help your right foot anyway). although i recommend waiting for a while.

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immortal_summonings
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:49 pm
Posts: 53
Location: Antarctica
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:32 pm 
 

thinkpad20 wrote:
latinfiestacarnage wrote:
i can't remember it off the top of my head but i remember hearing about the guy who won the fastest double bass thing for the world. anyone remember his name or the bpm in the record?

The guy you might be remembering is Tim Yeung, who I mentioned before. He won a WFD (world's fastest drummer) competition with ~858 single strokes in a minute (i.e. ~429 hits for each foot, alternating between the two), if I remember the number correctly. That wasn't the world record though. The current recordholder as far as I know is Tim Waterton (Waterson?) at something like 1,100 in a minute. That guy isn't a metal dude as far as I know though, and apparently not much of a drummer in general.


Tim Waterman, actually.
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RegularK
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:24 pm
Posts: 740
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:37 pm 
 

immortal_summonings wrote:
thinkpad20 wrote:
latinfiestacarnage wrote:
i can't remember it off the top of my head but i remember hearing about the guy who won the fastest double bass thing for the world. anyone remember his name or the bpm in the record?

The guy you might be remembering is Tim Yeung, who I mentioned before. He won a WFD (world's fastest drummer) competition with ~858 single strokes in a minute (i.e. ~429 hits for each foot, alternating between the two), if I remember the number correctly. That wasn't the world record though. The current recordholder as far as I know is Tim Waterton (Waterson?) at something like 1,100 in a minute. That guy isn't a metal dude as far as I know though, and apparently not much of a drummer in general.


Tim Waterman, actually.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Waterson

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Thesandman8203
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:39 pm
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 9:07 pm 
 

Question regarding blast beats. As far as playing them I'm very capable, but my problem is I can do them perfectly at any speed, with my arms crossed (like normal play) but it gets slightly sloppier at high speeds if I play left hand hi-hat and right hand snare, which is the way I see most drummers playing blast beats. Does any one here know any real difference/benefit in playing either way? I will most likely play both ways just to improve in general, I'm just wondering for curiosity's sake.

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Nasrudin
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:20 pm
Posts: 10
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:43 pm 
 

According to wikipedia:

"There are several reasons why someone may prefer the open hand method: some drummers simply prefer the method's open and free feel, as well as the playing options it creates. Playing with crossed arms may feel less comfortable to some drummers. Carter Beauford is a prominent exponent of this style of drumming,as seen in most of the DMB records.The important thing is to make sure the left hand takes the lead(for right handed players).This style of drumming opens up a lot of avenues regarding hand mobility around the set.It is particularly beneficial for players who use hi-hat fills and dynamics often."

Also, it really helps to get your left hand technique and endurance up to par and its a good way to get accustomed to leading with the left hand.

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latinfiestacarnage
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 8:27 pm
Posts: 492
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:16 am 
 

Yea it does help improve your left hand stuff so I recommend practicing it the other way. The same goes for me. I can do them alright with right hand lead but then I get sloppy with my left hand leading. I'm going to do the same and practice left hand lead. I am left handed though so I'm actually not SO bad left handed. What are some left handed drummers? I remember hearing somewhere that John Bonham was left hand lead on fills and stuff but I'm not sure about that being true. Anyways, what are some left handed drummers?

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TalonTheater
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 5:02 pm
Posts: 20
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 9:11 am 
 

Most drummers simply prefer to add a second hi-hat on the right side of the kit rather than adjust their core playing style. Still, if you can change quickly, more power to you.

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latinfiestacarnage
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 8:27 pm
Posts: 492
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:22 am 
 

yea, you'd get more props the other way :P

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latinfiestacarnage
Metalhead

Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 8:27 pm
Posts: 492
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 2:11 am 
 

Ok well i was wondering on some advice for double bass pedals. Longboard or normal ones. What are the differences (other than longboard being longer) and what are some advantages of each? currently i own a normal yamaha double bass and i like that fine but i want to know which one would be better. and im going to be playing metal like, death and a bit of thrash. mainly death though. so some recommendations please?

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the_gooch
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:59 pm
Posts: 23
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 5:18 pm 
 

Chryxtolf wrote:
Finally, a forum for the rest of us. I tried to create on in the Metal Disscusion, but that went to hell fast. Anyways, can anyone recommend me a outragiously good (not just good, outragiously, or kick-assly good) Metal drummer? Like, maybe the guy from :headbang: Origin :headbang: ? Or better? I don't know...just trying to learn/improve some techniques. Or even if anyone has any good tips/techniques on drumming that are not too common, perhaps?


sticking to just metal drummers, these are the best.

brandon thomas
kai hahto
steve shelton
steve flynn
sean reinert
gene hoglan
friso van wijck
bobby jarzombek

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IbexDeath
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Jun 11, 2006 7:18 pm
Posts: 54
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 5:25 pm 
 

My favorite drummers are those that make me want to pick up sticks. Those are drummers who are technically good to a degree, but have way more character of style than anything. I love Vinnie Paul's style, I love the drumming on Death's Leprosy (which is shit on constantly), I love Paul's drumming on most Cannibal Corpse records, and Nick Barker's drumming is pretty outrageous at times, too, both with Cradle of Filth and Dimmu Borgir. Actually, one of my favorite drumming 'performances' is a machine. Its from Aborym's With No Human Intervention. I love how snare-esque the sample sounds, it drives the music in a way that I wouldn't have imagined myself. Oh, and the stereotypical gods: Peart, Rich, etc.

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Thesandman8203
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:39 pm
Posts: 9
PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 7:56 pm 
 

In response to the longboard question, the main difference in long boards and regular boards is that long boards enable you to use your heal while playing. Some drummers use this for speed, and others use it for various techniques, the only example I can give is Chris Adler (yes, you read that right) in this video starting at about 2:09 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeWTKUXm3tU
As far as playing wise, I have axis A regular double, and I have played long boards of the same model and i havent noticed any difference. I would like to upgrade to be able to use my heal though, but it's just whatever feels more comfortable to you.

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