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Neuthrone
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 11:42 am
Posts: 14
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 3:42 pm 
 

I'm looking for guitar and I want to know which is better for the price range a B.C. Rich Warlock NT or an ESP LTD MH-103 QM, other opinions are acceptable because I'm pretty desperate right now :eek: :brick: ?
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somefella
Veteran

Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:57 pm
Posts: 2556
Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:18 pm 
 

Personally I would recommend a Jackson JS32 (it can be any shape, the series has the Warrior, King V, Rhoads and Dinky shapes). Unbeatable for the price and Jackson stock pickups are a fair bit better than the stock pickups on most brands. You can swap them out later too.

If not, maybe spend a bit more money and go for an Ibanez Iron Label series guitar. There are both S series shapes and RG shapes in that series, which is basically a line of midrange guitars aimed at metal. For example, the RGIX20 is pretty cool, basswood with a maple cap and EMG 81/60.
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BlackFlags
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:07 pm
Posts: 45
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:19 am 
 

http://www.rondomusic.com/product6982.html

http://www.rondomusic.com/3010serootbeerflame.html

For the quality you receive, you can't complain about this brand.

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somefella
Veteran

Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:57 pm
Posts: 2556
Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:33 am 
 

Ebony fretboard AND flame top?? Holy shit what a buy. I would imagine that the grade of the woods used would be a bit less and the construction less meticulous in order to justify that price but even so, that is some good value shit. I suppose this is one of those brands you gotta try individual guitars to spot the well constructed ones.

For example, Squier is a shit brand aimed purely at cheapo beginners BUT at work I've found this 60th Anniversary Classic Vibe Squier Strat, just one of the whole lot, that plays like fucking butter. Beautiful snap, a ton of definition and a great tone too. It honestly beats many of the American Fenders in terms of both feel and sound.

Sorry to derail the thread slightly, but yeah it's important to get a feel of the instrument before purchase.
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Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 4862
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 11:56 am 
 

Look for a used BC Rich NJ or LTD 300/400 series, the quality is considerably better, they hold up well, and there's a ton of them out there at very fair prices. There are a couple used MH-400NTs on ebay right now for just under $300. Those have much better hardware than the 100 series, and the workmanship was better before the last few years, so I recommend buying used LTDs.

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Neuthrone
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 11:42 am
Posts: 14
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:14 pm 
 

What do you think about the B.C. Rich Warlock NT, I saw one damaged at a Guitar Center for $234.99 just because it was missing three ferrules and a switch cap. I really liked the color of it, the comfortability of the body and the neck, and just the way it sounds. Would it be good for death metal? I already have a 2010 Gibson SG Standard recently modded with some Seymour Duncan SH-8 Invaders (both positions), and it is now officially awesome sounding for DEATH and Morbid Angel stuff :headbang: :np: !!!!! What do you guys also think about a used Ibanez RG407? :???: o_O

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Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 4862
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:05 pm 
 

I'm not too familiar with current BC Rich lines, is the NT just a neck-through model of the Chinese/Indonesian models? Despite hardware/setup differences, all of those tend to have the same inconsistent workmanship. The NJ line has more consistent and higher quality workmanship in general. Bronze Warlocks are fine for high-gain death metal anyway, I used one for years. The electronics were shitty and all failed, the paint began peeling within a few years, the neck angle was steep and the wrap-around bridge really high/uncomfortable, and tuning stability wasn't too good. The pickups were good for high gain playing though, it's the sort of thing that sounds good through an HM-2.

I'm not a fan of Ibanez guitars or seven strings, so I don't have much to say on those.

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somefella
Veteran

Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:57 pm
Posts: 2556
Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:25 am 
 

Don't waste time on the seven string.

Of the 2 you mentioned, the LTD is the better choice IF it's been set up properly and is constructed well. Be sure to try it out first.
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Neuthrone
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 11:42 am
Posts: 14
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:33 pm 
 

Thanks!!!!! What do you think of the ESP LTD MH-103 QM FR, I tried one and liked it. The question is the floyd rose any good, does it stay it tune after really hard playing or do I have to constantly tune it every time after playing (I know the floyd roses suck for constant tuners, especially me!!!!!).

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CF_Mono
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:21 pm
Posts: 1410
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:37 pm 
 

Played a high end LTD once and it was wonderful. But I really liked it because I was looking for flexibility at the time. I've only played one BC rich but man was it fun. Great shred guitar. Action was smoother, very light, had a killer deep tone but sharp and slicey on the attack too. No idea why people don't like them aside from the fact that it's worthless as anything besides a metal guitar.

:???:

Aside from that I can't give much real advice. I haven't owned enough guitars to know for sure because I'm poor.
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Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 4862
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:06 pm 
 

Avoid tremolos on inexpensive guitars. Licensed (cheap) Floyd Roses tend to be unstable, the originals are pricier, and they require a good setup to keep in working order. The tuning stability on a Floyd Rose Original with a proper setup is great, but otherwise I'd avoid them. Don't get one unless you plan on using it. Go with a fixed-bridge LTD, and seriously, check out used ones, there are a ton of 400 series guitars with good hardware (EMGs/Duncans, Grover tuners) and good builds in your price range, and the workmanship was somewhat better/more consistent 5-10 years ago.

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Arkhane
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:39 pm
Posts: 1532
Location: South Texas
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:44 am 
 

Zodijackyl wrote:
Avoid tremolos on inexpensive guitars. Licensed (cheap) Floyd Roses tend to be unstable, the originals are pricier, and they require a good setup to keep in working order. The tuning stability on a Floyd Rose Original with a proper setup is great, but otherwise I'd avoid them. Don't get one unless you plan on using it. Go with a fixed-bridge LTD, and seriously, check out used ones, there are a ton of 400 series guitars with good hardware (EMGs/Duncans, Grover tuners) and good builds in your price range, and the workmanship was somewhat better/more consistent 5-10 years ago.

I can vouch. My Ibanez Rg 120 came with a cheap floater, and I had to block it off with paper to keep it from floating. It was more frustrating than it was fun. That said, they are easily blocked from floating if you want to craft a wooden block or even fold some paper like I did.
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CF_Mono
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:21 pm
Posts: 1410
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:36 am 
 

Ahh, forgot to mention that, good point. My Dean had a floyd with a locking nut, but since I wanted stability over everything else, I made this little unboltable block rig for the back of it so that it's rock solid now. General rule should be don't pay for anything you really don't want though. I had kind of a hard time looking for a sharp 80's sounding shred axe without a whammy bar and for a good value. All the hard tails these days seem to be built for either death metal or djent.
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somefella
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Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:57 pm
Posts: 2556
Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:03 pm 
 

@ the above, check out the Iron Label series from Ibanez. All hardtail bridges and solid for classic metal.
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Chainsaw Omega
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:43 pm
Posts: 105
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 3:09 am 
 

BlackFlags wrote:
http://www.rondomusic.com/product6982.html

http://www.rondomusic.com/3010serootbeerflame.html

For the quality you receive, you can't complain about this brand.



This. I have been hearing about these for a long time, and are especially appealing to the Gibson fan in me. I got a used AL-2000 locally for super cheap in basically brand new condition. If this one is anything to go off of, the 3000 series is a no-brainer.

I've done some comparisons with Edwards, Electra, Epiphones, and Gibson, and so far, it feels as good as a Gibson or an Edwards, but tone-wise, the stock pickups aren't there. It sounds pretty much identical to the Epiphone LP Custom I compared it to. I've got a Gibson 498t on the way though, and that should essentially solve my problem.


This is, of course, dependent on if you like Les Pauls. If you don't here's some of my experience.

LTD: Don't even bother with any of the 100 level or under LTD stuff. Sounds like crap, looks like crap, and plays like crap. You can find used 200-400 level models of all types for your budget all-day.

B.C. Rich: The last experience I had with Bronze or Platinum level models was about 12 years ago, and they were unbelievably bad. Recently though, I have played some of the Korean made V's, and they are pretty solid, though out of your price range. I will say I was looking at that Warlock NT you mentioned, as the specs looked up my alley, but I ended up getting a deal on a Gibson V at the time, so no more warlock.

Jackson: The low level $300 and under models are crap. I have a Kelley, and it's terrible. I use it to practice some luthier work and that's about all its good for. Good Jackson stuff is expensive.

Ibanez: I must be honest and say that I have little experience with these, because nothing about them feels right to me. However, whenever I did sit down with it and examine it objectively, you do get a well-made guitar for $300-$400. The stuff in the sub $300 range I have touched was hit or miss, mostly the latter.

Fender: Unconventional for death metal, but the one thing I would suggest is the Blacktop series, which are all humbuckers instead of single-coil. I am not a Fender guy, but I REALLY liked the Blacktop Strat and Tele. They do have an advantage with downtuning, which is a longer scale, and the maple neck makes note articulation pretty solid.

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Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 4862
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:40 am 
 

I'll add my two cents on Chainsaw's comments:

ESP LTD: The hardware tends to be considerably better in the 350 and 400 series than the 200. I believe some of the 300s used to come with better pickups, but I may just be thinking of 350s.

BC Rich: I never noticed much of a difference between Bronze, Platinum, and any of the other cheap lines. They all have wildly inconsistent workmanship and cheap/fragile electronics. I'm not sure if there's a difference between the cheap/made wherever and Korean-made guitars now. The Japanese-made NJ series are pretty good though.

Jackson: Not a fan of them.

Ibanez: A bit odd in their setups - lighter woods and their own hardware that depends very heavily on whether or not you prefer it. They tend to use the same lighter woods for higher end guitars too, which is part of why shredders tend to like them. They get a good crunch with high gain, though a lot of cheap guitars do the same. I'm not a fan of them.

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Neuthrone
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 11:42 am
Posts: 14
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:36 pm 
 

What about Schecters?

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somefella
Veteran

Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:57 pm
Posts: 2556
Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:07 pm 
 

If you can get an older model like the Deluxe 006, go for it but you'll need to change the bridge pickup at least. I used one with a Seymour Duncan Invader for the recording on my previous album which you can hear in my sig. It's the guitars panned to the right. It lacks some clarity but that's more due to the pickup choice (which wasn't mine, previous owner installed it).

Of all the available choices and your budget of $400, I highly recommend going for any Ibanez in that category. S520, S770FM, RG550, any of these will be pretty reliable. There's no such thing as a 'death metal guitar'. As long as it plays well, it can be made to do anything.
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Neuthrone
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 11:42 am
Posts: 14
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 2:18 pm 
 

Thanks Guys, but I ended up with a PRS SE Mike Mushok Signature Series Baritone Guitar for just $439.00 on clearance. The Guitar Center I go to is starting to get rid of them, don't know why, probably because everyone in Knoxville loves Gibsons more than Ibanez, PRS, Schecter, etc.... I think it's a 2014 model, GREAT DEAL THOUGH FOR THE DEATH METAL ARTIST LIKE ME!!!!!!!

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Neuthrone
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 11:42 am
Posts: 14
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 2:25 pm 
 

Here is a guy playing death metal on my a Mike Mushok, quite interesting what gear he uses to get the sound though!!!!!!!

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ShaolinLambKiller
King Asshole

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:10 pm
Posts: 11905
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2014 4:38 pm 
 

Not death metal. but decent sounding.. I like my guitars/tones to sound digusting and thick. But that's some modern metal stuff that while played fine, doesn't convience me much of how well the guitar sounds...esp with the processed polished sound.
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somefella
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Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:57 pm
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Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 3:35 am 
 

That's hardly death metal but it sounds not bad at all for what the guy's trying to do.
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Chainsaw Omega
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:43 pm
Posts: 105
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:31 am 
 

Never played on a baritone, but as far as specs, you've got a mahogany body with a set maple neck and an ebony fretboard. Those are some nice features, and a combination of woods I particularly like. I'm assuming the stock PRS low-end pickups are nothing to write home about though, so i would suggest replacing them. My personal favorite pickup is a simple Gibson 498T for the bridge and they can be had for about $50 used.

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Wrldeatr
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:13 pm
Posts: 36
Location: United States
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:03 pm 
 

I'd recommend against getting those cheap Indian Jacksons. Now those have shoddy workmanship.

I've had only good experiences with BC Rich guitars. In spite of all the negative comments, a Chinese Warlock Bronze that I had a some time ago was to my surprise just flawless. And the Korean models are even better. Now you can get a new good Korean-made Warlock or V for a very good price.

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MawBTS
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:16 am
Posts: 17
PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:52 am 
 

OP already bought his guitar guys, but whatever...

Quote:
Ibanez: A bit odd in their setups - lighter woods and their own hardware that depends very heavily on whether or not you prefer it. They tend to use the same lighter woods for higher end guitars too, which is part of why shredders tend to like them. They get a good crunch with high gain, though a lot of cheap guitars do the same. I'm not a fan of them.


I don't like those Ibanez "shred" guitars either, mostly because the necks are too thin. From where I'm standing, most of an instrument's tone is in its neck. Shave it too thin, and tone will suffer - plus you need a bigger truss rod to resist the string tension, meaning even more neck mass gets shaved away. Add thick, tone-sucking paint, cheap basswood bodies, and the worse-than-the-Holocaust Edge III tremolo, and there's not much to be said for their entry level guitars. Even the LTD MH-103 QM would be a better choice.

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somefella
Veteran

Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:57 pm
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Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 5:31 am 
 

Conversely, having unboxed dozens of India made Jacksons in the past few months, I've never seen anything wrong with them. Hard to beat it for the price though I do agree there's better stuff once you spend more money. And it's the opposite for China made BC Rich guitars in my experience. Generally though, as a rule of thumb I think one shouldn't buy guitars that cheap without trying them out first. There's probably 3 good ones in ten, so you gotta find one of the three.



And yes, too thin necks will cause you to lose a lot of tone. I use an Ibanez but an MFM1, which has a pretty thick set neck anyway (one of the main reasons I decided to get it). However, an Ibanez 'shred' guitar isn't meant for it to have a wood-heavy tone. Unlike a Les Paul, where you dig into one note and vibrato the hell out of it and fall in love with the rich sustain. I would not get any Ibanez cheaper than the S520 either but there's nothing fundamentally bad about Ibanez guitars general design or the Edge III bridge for that matter.
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Neuthrone
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun May 25, 2014 11:42 am
Posts: 14
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:23 pm 
 

I could really agree somefella, some of the higher end Ibanezes are really good for their shredding ability, not really their tone (although they do have one). I'm more of a PRS and Gibson, guy in the end, they're typically great shredding guitars with a WHOLE LOT OF TONE!!!!!!! The only problem I have with my PRS Mike Mushok Baritone is how spaced the frets are, dang!!!!! I'll be ElasticFingerMan by the end of the year if I keep trying to play a pinch harmonic on it (which is awesome sounding by the way on the PRS, although it's a designated RYTHYM GUITAR ONLY BY GUITARWORLD!!!!!!!!!!).

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Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 4862
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 1:18 pm 
 

somefella wrote:
Conversely, having unboxed dozens of India made Jacksons in the past few months, I've never seen anything wrong with them. Hard to beat it for the price though I do agree there's better stuff once you spend more money. And it's the opposite for China made BC Rich guitars in my experience. Generally though, as a rule of thumb I think one shouldn't buy guitars that cheap without trying them out first. There's probably 3 good ones in ten, so you gotta find one of the three.


Have you noticed a difference between the bronze series and the higher end Chinese ones? I could never tell the difference, maybe one out of three or four plays alright and there's often a combination of poor workmanship and poor setup.

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somefella
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Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:57 pm
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Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:01 am 
 

The store I work at doesn't carry BC Rich but I have tried out quite a number of them. For my part, not just for BC Rich but for any brand and the whole USA/Japan versus China/Indonesia made thing, I can generally conclude this: The workmanship/construction from the former is generally better than the latter (8 in 10 are well made, versus 4 in 10). Setup isn't a big issue since you can adjust this real quick on your own to your own liking, as long as the hardware( construction) is good. But a well made China guitar versus a well made USA one? Hardly any difference at all. It just so happens that its a bit more likely to unbox a well made USA one as opposed to a well made China one.

That's why trying out instruments at this price range (300 to 400) is really important; you want to make sure you get the good 1 out of 4 instead of the other 3 possibly crappy ones. Squier has this 60th Anniversary gold Classic Vibe China-made Strat and to me it feels and sounds better than quite a few American Fender Strats. You never know what you're gonna get, really. Just try out as many guitars as you can, that's my advice to any buyer. If you can find a 'magic' one that is a cheap ass Indonesia made one and somehow plays/sounds great, that's the best. There are always diamonds in the rough.

Of course if you are ordering online, make sure to go through a reputable dealer with a trustworthy warranty system and be ready to have to set it up on your own.
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