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guitar_metal_777
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:27 pm
Posts: 228
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:12 am 
 

I've really lost that fire and drive I had for playing guitar. I've been playing for about 9 odd years now. I picked up learning guitar after listening to the album Siamese Dream by the Smashing Pumpkins. With my hunger for new music, primarily metal and post-hardcore, I began the journey of learning guitar and writing music.

Several defunct bands, thousands of dollars spent on recordings and mini tours, I've got nothing to show for it. I tried to pick up my guitar after 6 months of not even looking at it and all I can do is recite some stupid riffs I learned. I end up retreading old territory when I tried writing recently and I just get frustrated and just put it back in my case. It's just exhausting and I keep thinking about all the hassle that went into practicing, writing, etc. A lot of it sounds stupid to me now (seriously, some of the music I wrote is cringeworthy hahaha).

So my question is, has anyone felt this before? How'd you get back into it when you just wanted to give up? You think I should keep going with it or should I just let this one go and move onto better things in life? I'm starting a full time, career job in a couple weeks and I'm not sure if I should keep going on with this.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I still love discovering new bands, but I feel at this point if I'm not going to be performing there's no reason to keep playing.

Also, I apologize for this sob story. I was hoping for some insight.
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somefella
Veteran

Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:57 pm
Posts: 2540
Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:22 am 
 

Personally, what inspires me and gets me going (aside from my vocalist/band dictator cracking the whip and screaming "go practice the setlist 10 times to a metronome, do it!") is plugging into a great sound. Plug in, switch on the power, and hearing the feedback begin to scream as you roll up the volume. Then you rip out an open E and hear it roar back at you. After that I'm 110% down to practice or write or anything. Perhaps buying a nice new amp/guitar would be in order.
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ShaolinLambKiller
King Asshole

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:10 pm
Posts: 11883
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:57 am 
 

You shouldn't look at it if you aren't performing you aren't doing anything. That's a true shame. I've probably played as many if not far more shows than you doing the same. minitours... thousands of dollars in gear... not having anything to show for most of those bands I toured with.... but have you ever thought about recording? Like spending your time writing these songs and recording them on a home setup and then either learning to play or program the rest of the instruments needed or getting some like minded people either around you or via online to fill those rolls. I can guarantee it's much more satisfying. Cause after all your hard work you have something you can place down in front of someone and say... this is what I've done with my time. It's not all that expensive to have tapes or cds pressed esp if you are keeping it on the small side. so that way you can opt to sell your work as well. I spend almost all my time cut between recording and painting. Even before I got my recording set up that I can use now and found the cd company to press my albums, I never lost the passion to play guitar. I love the sound of playing, I love hearing what odd notes I could pull out of a regular guitar, I love just soaking up the tone of the amp while letting it drone on a long slow chord.


Also a note most of my playing live was done as either a drummer or a bassist.

So maybe if not just yet invest in new gear... get some recording equip. like check out www.presonus.com browse through there and you can often find their products on ebay used for cheap. Get reaper you can try it out for free and buy a license for it for 40 bucks. get a plain SM57 and cords and you are set to start recording. And once you start recording some stuff you'll start to get excited about what you can create and then probably want some new gear to hear what other sounds you can mess with other amps/guitars.
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Apteronotus
Metalhead

Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:07 am
Posts: 851
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:16 pm 
 

There have been times where I've gone a long while without playing guitar much. I would get back into it just by picking it up and playing again. Playing and writing music has always made me happy so I can't say I understand the moving onto better things part. Maybe you are just down in the dumps?

Music is so unbelievably free, you can build entire worlds through sound from the nothingness of silence using almost only your own creativity. What could be better? I have to third the advice about getting decent gear and just enjoying the sound. Music is food. Just playing guitar is pretty damn fun and having a full time career job is a great way to support an interest in music. Guitar = wow, awesome, hell yeah.
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ShaolinLambKiller
King Asshole

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:10 pm
Posts: 11883
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:29 pm 
 

Also just kinda re-reading and seeing... This kinda reads that more of your motivation was to make playing music your career... as in getting signed and going on tour all the time and since that didn't happen you are depressed that you have to 'grow up' and get a real job. Which would explain your comment about 'giving up playing guitar to move on to bigger and better things...' So yea it's kinda sounding more like a pity party because your dreams never came true. Esp weighed in with your comment that some of the music you played was cringeworthy... meaning you didn't like it and knew it wasn't enjoyable. Even at my worst bands I completely enjoyed and whatever recordings I have of them i still listen to and see all the good in it as well.

Honestly everyone I know who played music in hopes to make money and get signed... all of them just gave up when it didn't happen. Those who truly have a passion to create and play music do so for themselves and do so regardless if all they have is a practice amp and a sound library of beats they just plug together.
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somefella
Veteran

Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:57 pm
Posts: 2540
Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:54 am 
 

Of everyone I know who wanted to make music their career, it almost never works. If you want to make it big as a band and live the rockstar dream, no chance. Usually you have to practice and study theory day in day out for years so you can become a valuable session musician who can fill in any spot, and in between those you are stuck playing in nightclubs or giving lessons. And you have to have great PR as well. Not just marketing yourself, but in a small scene saying the wrong thing about someone after you've had a drink too many can also turn out to be a big problem.

Basically it's hard and tiring as hell and I respect those who can pull it off a lot but it's not something I think most people should go into unless they know they really want it (people usually don't) because only then will they have the required discipline and dedication.

Just make music for yourself, write a bunch of shit and record it. Even do YouTube covers if that's your thing. With a full-time job, paying for good equipment will be a lot easier and you can have all the music related fun you want without a care in the world whether you've pissed off the wrong person, whether you're marketing yourself right, whether your music is relatable to mass audiences, etc. That's the best part of being an independent musician IMO. You can say fuck you to everyone else and do whatever you like and it doesn't matter in the slightest.
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Last edited by somefella on Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Porman
Sweek Souvlaki Muncher

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 5:00 pm
Posts: 1513
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 3:01 am 
 

I can say that after 20 years of playing guitar that I got bored with the instrument itself like 8 years ago. I hardly if never, play at home except for when I write. The guitar for me is now merely a tool and not a toy anymore, if that makes any sense. I still love playing it though, but I prefer to play with others rather than by myself.
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ShaolinLambKiller
King Asshole

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:10 pm
Posts: 11883
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:54 pm 
 

That's different though. I hardly play or practice if I'm not actively writing towards something. I was never big on sitting there and practing something that wasn't band related. But I can't say I ever got bored with guitar. Hell you didn't stop playing.
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Porman
Sweek Souvlaki Muncher

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 5:00 pm
Posts: 1513
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:18 pm 
 

No, but I don't look at the guitar in the same way as I did before. Now, it's just that, a tool. It's not my lover anymore, haha!
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ShaolinLambKiller
King Asshole

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:10 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:23 pm 
 

Well you do have a wife and children I would also figure that would play into that as well. I'm just lucky my wife supports my interest/hobby mainly cause it keeps me away so she can have peace plus we do a band together. and I guess I can note that though I've been playing since I was 16 for a good 6 years I rarely touched a guitar cause I was too busy being a drummer or bassist in different bands.
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Arkhane
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:39 pm
Posts: 1520
Location: South Texas
PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:49 pm 
 

I went about 3 years without touching a guitar at one point... Sometimes it happens, just don't sell all of your music shit, cause its bound to come back.
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somefella
Veteran

Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:57 pm
Posts: 2540
Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 3:00 pm 
 

I suppose there's no one answer for everyone. I dunno, just picking up the guitar and playing shit already makes me happy. Writing and recording are bonuses.
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CloggedUrethra
Metal newbie

Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2002 4:30 am
Posts: 252
Location: Ontario, Canada
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:08 pm 
 

I also cut way back on playing guitar while learning drums. Then eventually I was happy enough with my drumming to continue making songs and my interest in guitar came back pretty strong. Can't imagine ever giving up making music.
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Fulano
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:30 pm
Posts: 17
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:14 am 
 

I kinda felt the same way on the recent past, except I had an active band. But it got harder and harder to get together and rehearse, and I hardly played alone anymore. I´ve been with those guys for 6 years now (one year after I first picked up a guitar) and it´s like family, so I plan on keep going, but I needed something extra, so I started a side project, and it´s working; it feel fresh and new, I´m writing a lot and I´m sure I´ve played more this last month than on six months.

So I guess it comes and goes sometimes. There are more productive seasons than others, and you can´t force yourself to "want to play". Play if you feel like it; if not, don´t until you do. Sounds silly, but it seems to work that way.

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ShaolinLambKiller
King Asshole

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:10 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:11 pm 
 

I'm all about that philosophy.. play when you feel like it and don't force it if not. Basically how I write material for bands. Now there are some stuff I've been wanting to do some work on like full lengths for Mykridia, Filtheater, and Immaculate Molestation... but I haven't had that itch or inspiration to do so.. I've been doing work on my other projects and while some I have just released albums and material for in the last 2 months I've been more inclined to work on them for whatever reason so I do.
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KFD
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:19 pm
Posts: 1064
Location: France
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:55 pm 
 

guitar_metal_777 wrote:
I'm starting a full time, career job in a couple weeks


The problems lies here in my humble opinion: art is not compatible with a capitalist job/way of life. Creation is the opposite of consumption. You seem to consider art as consumption that you used to enjoy, but don't enjoy anymore. There was a choice to be made and you made it.

My former guitarist/singer made the same choice as yours. I'm pretty sure he will soon stop playing music, if he hasn't stopped already.

Buying new equipment would be a waste of money in my opinion.
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RageW
Marisa's Harlot

Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 11:44 am
Posts: 839
Location: Colombia
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:23 pm 
 

KFD wrote:
guitar_metal_777 wrote:
I'm starting a full time, career job in a couple weeks


The problems lies here in my humble opinion: art is not compatible with a capitalist job/way of life. Creation is the opposite of consumption. You seem to consider art as consumption that you used to enjoy, but don't enjoy anymore. There was a choice to be made and you made it.

My former guitarist/singer made the same choice as yours. I'm pretty sure he will soon stop playing music, if he hasn't stopped already.

Buying new equipment would be a waste of money in my opinion.


The fact you're a useless bum who can't manage both things at once doesn't mean nobody else can ;)
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Metantoine
The XVI, dominar to over 258714 subjects

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:00 pm
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Location: Québec
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:24 pm 
 

And I bet that without a job you can support a family and pay for food and housing with your label and musical projects, right?

You don't live in the real world.
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ShaolinLambKiller
King Asshole

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:10 pm
Posts: 11883
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:39 pm 
 

We've been telling him that for around a year. It just doesn't seem to register. Even when you present him with all the evidence utterly destroying every damn argument he makes. Like how there are thousands of musicians pro and non-pro that make their actual money from real jobs and can balance out both just fine. You can't help someone who is so willingly ignorant that he actively doesn't read/listen/understand something on purpose.
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Veld
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:48 pm
Posts: 49
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:42 pm 
 

Here's what I do.

I wake up at 5 am, go to work till 2:30. Come home, work on music, cook somewhere in between (sometimes) and head to bed at 11. Every day. Every single day. If you want to get back into it, you have to make it your life. Aside from the time I spend at work. Sucks when I'm there and I think of something cool but I need a guitar to sound it out.

So ya, just play everyday.
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KFD
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:19 pm
Posts: 1064
Location: France
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:52 pm 
 

One can perhaps manage a musician career with a feeding job, but not with a career job which requires the investment of one's creative/intellectual energy. Don't you think human energy is limited?

No one can ride two horses at the same time, that's a capitalist propaganda lie. Art is sacrificed because it's unprofitable. Beware of the self-made man myth, it's purely derivative from the Christian myth of equality between men (because they are the image of "God").

Anyway thanks for your interest in my private life, but I'm not the one in trouble on this thread ;)
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somefella
Veteran

Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:57 pm
Posts: 2540
Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:18 pm 
 

Actually, TONS of people can manage what you just mentioned. It's funny how you keep claiming with no evidence whatsoever that it's impossible. It's like a skinny dude walking into a gym and saying it's physically impossible to bench 100s when there are 20 other people in the gym doing just that.

Human energy is limited. You just seem to have far, far less than most if you keep drawing these baseless and intellectually dishonest (read: outright ridiculous and hilarious) conclusions.
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ShaolinLambKiller
King Asshole

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:10 pm
Posts: 11883
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:37 pm 
 

Yea KFD, this isn't a matter of opinion. It's a matter of fact that you are incorrect... over and over again you have been PROVEN incorrect. Yet you blissfully go about not gaining any knowledge from being corrected. Ever.

I'm curious if this guy is ever going to return to even read any of these responses.
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iamntbatman
Chaos Breed

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:55 am
Posts: 7535
Location: Innsmouth
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:40 pm 
 

KFD wrote:
No one can ride two horses at the same time, that's a capitalist propaganda lie.


:scratch:

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Veld
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:48 pm
Posts: 49
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:39 pm 
 

iamntbatman wrote:
KFD wrote:
No one can ride two horses at the same time, that's a capitalist propaganda lie.


:scratch:



I expected someone to post something like this. Awesome.
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iamntbatman
Chaos Breed

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:55 am
Posts: 7535
Location: Innsmouth
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:38 am 
 

It's probably just evil capitalist Bollywood movie magic trickery though.
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KFD
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:19 pm
Posts: 1064
Location: France
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:33 am 
 

ShaolinLambKiller wrote:
Yea KFD, this isn't a matter of opinion. It's a matter of fact that you are incorrect... over and over again you have been PROVEN incorrect.


Speaking of facts, here are 2 facts:

1 - You release far too much demos/albums/CDs/projects (call it as you like) to be able to focus on a serious project. You compensate quality by quantity, and then you claim to be a kind of superman. But that's false: if you worked on each project fully, you would probably spend as much time as me on each release, and you could not release more than one project per year.

2 - You withdrew from the current thrash contest because of an accident which happened during your working time. That's a perfect illustration of my theory.

If you like to half-do many things at once instead of doing only one thing properly and fully, that's your problem.
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ShaolinLambKiller
King Asshole

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:10 pm
Posts: 11883
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:03 am 
 

hahahahaahahahahahahahaahaha you have nothing to base your judgements. Esp quality of music. You can barely play any instrument. You can barely put together a song, You can barely mix said 'songs'

withdrew yes partly because of said accident, partly cause I was not inspired at all and did zero work on it. If i had something down I would've finished it.


You can't call anyone halfass when when you present your 'music' in the most half ass, pic stolen from the internet, sounding like shit way possible.


cause unlike you, I actually will take the time to listen to other people's work before I say anything about their music or work. You really are a pathetic delusional joke around here and anywhere that you present that dreck you call music.

Your entire post reeks of jealousy esp since 3 other people directly after me go on to agree to not only disagree with you but also present you with examples of how you are wrong.
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KFD
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:19 pm
Posts: 1064
Location: France
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:59 am 
 

The topic is neither "you and me" nor "our own music projects". The topic is about the ability to lead a job career and serious music projects at the same time. Anyone can record drafts in a few hours. I don't call that "a serious project".


Quote:
withdrew yes partly because of said accident, partly cause I was not inspired at all and did zero work on it.


Do you realize that you're shooting your own foot?
Why did you join the contest, if you "weren't inspired" in the first place?

Either you should never have joined the thrash contest, or you're just advocating a pretext to back up your weak argumentation.

Anyway this "debate" is fun, I have time to waste right now.

I may add: I don't force myself to listen to bad music, I only review what I want to review and I'm not paid (no money, no free CDs), why on Earth should I review your music? I already listened to samples, though. My only advice would be: record tighter drum tracks, they're not sync. That doesn't mean I'm a better drummer/performer, of course.
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Smoking_Gnu
Chicago Favorite

Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:22 pm
Posts: 2470
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:10 am 
 

KFD wrote:
The topic is neither "you and me" nor "our own music projects". The topic is about the ability to lead a job career and serious music projects at the same time. Anyone can record drafts in a few hours. I don't call that "a serious project".


Well (If I am understanding your argument about the apparent impossibility of such a topic):

Henri Sorvali, keyboardist, songwriter and producer for Moonsorrow and Finntroll, has a family and works for a video game music design company (former high school music teacher.)
Kristoffer Rygg of Ulver is a producer/studio engineer and has two kids.
Lars Nedland of Solefald, Borknagar and Age of Silence is a reporter for Norwegian TV network TVNORGE.
Cornelius Jakhelln of Solefald is a Norway-renowned novelist and poet with several master's degrees.
John Maudling of Bal-Sagoth and My Dying Bride is a recording studio engineer.
Christos Antoniou of Septicflesh is an engineer/arranger at an Athens sound studio.

And these are just bands I'm familiar with. Now, a common thread seems to jobs of studio engineer/musician, which makes sense - It'd be logical to consolidate one's resources and talents that way. But given that these are all creative, regular-release-schedule with bands with successful careers, I don't think the two paths are mutually exclusive as you're proposing.
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ShaolinLambKiller
King Asshole

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:10 pm
Posts: 11883
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:13 am 
 

You made it about us you goddamn moron. I never said anything about what you did prior to you doing so.

I'm not shooting myself in the foot, I joined anticipating I would and midway after nothing really speaking to me I didn't attempt to force anything.

You have no idea what is a serious project and what isn't based on what you have presented...nevertheless you thinking you have any room whatsoever saying anyone should record anything tighter. Esp if you haven't listened to anything like you said. You can't judge something to be bad without listening to it.

And it's not a debate, it's you slinging out insults and me laughing at the amount of stupidity displayed by you.

Sorry Smoking_Gnu he doesn't seem to read anything else besides what I post for some reason and won't go back to the actual topic at hand and attempt to poorly debate you on it.
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KFD
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:19 pm
Posts: 1064
Location: France
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:27 am 
 

Smoking_Gnu wrote:
Henri Sorvali, keyboardist, songwriter and producer for Moonsorrow and Finntroll, has a family and works for a video game music design company (former high school music teacher.)
Kristoffer Rygg of Ulver is a producer/studio engineer and has two kids.
Lars Nedland of Solefald, Borknagar and Age of Silence is a reporter for Norwegian TV network TVNORGE.
Cornelius Jakhelln of Solefald is a Norway-renowned novelist and poet with several master's degrees.
John Maudling of Bal-Sagoth and My Dying Bride is a recording studio engineer.
Christos Antoniou of Septicflesh is an engineer/arranger at an Athens sound studio.


All these activities are tightly bound to the domain of art and expression. I also write poems, articles, I also have recording skills, I could also teach in the linguistic domain or work in the video game industry. That doesn't contradict my theory.

What I said is basically that you cannot do fully two activities at the same moment. For example I translated a book. When I did so, I had less time for attending university classes or caring about my music projects. Another example: if I decide to practise a new sport tomorrow (let's randomly say football), I will have less time for practising drums.

That's all I'm saying and it's quite obvious. The OP has entered the world of employment, which creates a rupture with his former teenage creative period.
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Arkhane
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:39 pm
Posts: 1520
Location: South Texas
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:50 pm 
 

Oooohhh, Jeez Christ *Mr. Slave voice*
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TheOldSkull
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 2:24 pm
Posts: 64
Location: Brittany
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:42 pm 
 

Ok, that's nice, now back on topic for serious stuff.

"How to keep the "passion" alive for playing guitar?"

Easy, really... just remember why you started guitar in the first place : banging chicks, of course.
So, if you're feeling uninspired or lacking motivation, keep this in mind : more guitar, more vaginas!

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Earthcubed
Peregrinus sine aetate

Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:44 am
Posts: 2480
Location: Orocarni
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:18 pm 
 

Changing tastes in music was what got my passion back. Trying to learn something totally outside of what I used to play when I started out. So does that mean you give up metal? No, it means you have a wider range of techniques to try out---which you can then apply to metal if you so choose. In the meantime it gives you something new and exciting to do, which can reignite the guitar passion.
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somefella
Veteran

Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:57 pm
Posts: 2540
Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:53 pm 
 

KFD, you are simply assuming that because someone has more projects than you, it means that they are more focused on quantity than quality. Again, WRONG. You can spend 600 hours a month on one of your projects but I haven't heard a single one of them (and yes I've taken the time to click and listen) that actually show proper and professional musicianship. You can complain that the 'system' oppresses you and stops you from doing so, but this same system has not stopped people of stronger character and ability from doing so. Songwriting aside, there's literally hundreds of people I know who earn a good living from the evil capitalist system and make better music than you do, better meaning professionally performed and mixed. So what's your excuse then?

To say that having a JOB is incompatible with making music is a complete and utter fallacy. You simply assume that since you can't do it (wonder why), no one else can. Just like in that other thread where you espouse the impossibility of one-take recordings.

The only reason why you can't do all of these things is because you lack the discipline and intelligence. Wise up, boy. I honestly don't wish to insult you like this but you really could use a wake-up call in the form of a physical slap to the face.

EDIT: You call your own projects "properly and fully" while that of others is not? What on earth makes you think your material is so fucking special? Because you spend more time on it? Therefore you are a proper musician while the rest of us are not? I'd honestly be hard pressed to find someone on this forum alone who makes worse music than you do. This may sound really high-handed and mean and I'm sorry but you really need to grow up and wise up.

Your theory is basically contradicted and proven false by the HUNDREDS of musicians who are employed and yet continue to make good music. Of course, I don't expect you to reply me because like in every thread where I've called you out, you've retreated into the safety of ignorance.
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Arkhane
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:39 pm
Posts: 1520
Location: South Texas
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:31 pm 
 

To be honest, I won't contribute to this little shindig, but I did try to click KFD's sig link in hopes of hearing what kind of music he writes, and Malwarebytes apparently blocked an attack... :/

So, there's that.
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Smoking_Gnu
Chicago Favorite

Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:22 pm
Posts: 2470
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:38 pm 
 

KFD wrote:
What I said is basically that you cannot do fully two activities at the same moment...That's all I'm saying and it's quite obvious.


Okay, sure. I don't think many people would argue against the first half of that statement taken by itself. However, in regards to the second half, you've explicitly said and implicitly indicated additional viewpoints:

KFD wrote:
The OP has entered the world of employment, which creates a rupture with his former teenage creative period.

KFD wrote:
One can perhaps manage a musician career with a feeding job, but not with a career job which requires the investment of one's creative/intellectual energy. Don't you think human energy is limited? No one can ride two horses at the same time, that's a capitalist propaganda lie. Art is sacrificed because it's unprofitable. Beware of the self-made man myth, it's purely derivative from the Christian myth of equality between men (because they are the image of "God").

KFD wrote:
The problems lies here in my humble opinion: art is not compatible with a capitalist job/way of life. Creation is the opposite of consumption. You seem to consider art as consumption that you used to enjoy, but don't enjoy anymore. There was a choice to be made and you made it. My former guitarist/singer made the same choice as yours. I'm pretty sure he will soon stop playing music, if he hasn't stopped already. Buying new equipment would be a waste of money in my opinion.


You seem to be arguing that a career job is a rapid and permanent death to meaningful and productive artistic expression. And there's certainly a risk for that - Maybe guitarist Joe was practicing 12 hours a day, gets the ol' 9-5, aims to do 6 hours a day on weekdays, except he spends so much time faffing around at the bar with his new work pals that he only does one hour on Wednesdays and sometimes Fridays. But what about the dedicated and talented bunch who keeps the slightly reduced schedule?

A. Okay, you've gone from 84 to 54 hours of practice per week. Does that really make that much of a difference? No doubt 54 vs 20 would, but at a certain point you end up with diminishing returns. Consider the artists I listed in my last post - They all have jobs, and I believe they make excellent music - YMMV, obviously, but anyone could agree they are both technically skilled and productive. Sure, they could focus on music alone and maybe put out another album or two every year, but that leads us to the reasons I don't buy the argument one could be more creatively successful by avoiding a capitalist career job:

B. Money. As others have said, making enough money to support oneself is a fact of life. You seem to think the capitalist system is what keeps musicians down in this sense. But would it be better in another system? Even in a socialist system where income and job hours were equalized, the job still has to deliver something that's beneficial for the society as a whole. I highly doubt extreme metal (particularly the genres you enjoy) would have enough perceived societal value to get a spot in such a system. I will admit my knowledge of such political systems is not extensive, however, so please inform me if I am mistaken in this assessment.

C. What about people who can support themselves with metal musicianship alone? Let's take Cannibal Corpse, Slayer, Nightwish, even Rotting Christ, to name a few. You'll notice that they have more or less the same release rate and touring schedules as the "job-bearing" bands in my last post. That's because, once you get to the level where you can sustain yourself off music alone, you have to handle a lot of the business end of the industry - and that cuts into the amount of Time You Could Spend on Music anyway!

D. And what about general lifestyle differences? When you're a teenager, you have nigh-unlimited time to practice and be creative, as you said. But you'll also be learning the basics of production, songwriting theory, physical skill, etc; You also simply won't have the resources or connections to be successful. By the time you get to be job-aged, you'll have likely developed the musical knowledge, physical skill and connections to produce quality work. This is offset, obviously, by the necessity of having a job to support yourself if you don't fall into Group C. But honestly? Your net output is still going to be MUCH greater at this age, because you've already developed all the aforementioned skills, even if avoiding a career job is impossible for reasons A, B, and C.

Jesus CHRIST, I rambled. :lol: None of this was meant in an antagonistic manner; if anything I think this is an interesting topic worth debate as I have recently entered the full-time work world myself. Take from it what you will.
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DaBuddha
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:30 pm
Posts: 1298
Location: United States of America
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:02 pm 
 

This is actually a good question, in regards to the OP. I myself have been very uninspired at times and don't touch a guitar or drums for weeks on end, sometimes as much as a month. From the time I was 15 and first got into metal, all I wanted to do at first was grow my hair long and play guitar because that's what all my favorite bands looked like and did. When I accomplished that, all I wanted was to play in a band and make a career out of music. I wanted to tour and make records and nothing else. I wanted to move to Los Angeles with my best friend and get it all rolling. I'm now 29 and have basically nothing to show for that part of the dream, so I consider it dead at this point. I still play and write, but with a lot less vigor than I used to have. I still play in bands, but it's not really fun anymore for me personally. Of course looking back I guess this was all a pipe dream, but it still hurts when it all fades away. I'm just bitter and jaded by the entire thing in all honesty.

But, that doesn't mean you should give up. If you want to be signed and take over the world, do not let anyone tell you it can't happen. I see tons of bottom of the barrell, worst-shit-ever bands get signed all the time (not at all saying that's what your music is.) You yourself dictate most of what happens (I say most because unless you start your own label, others will dictate that part.) Keep at it and you never know what may be lurking behind the next corner.
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awheio
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:00 am
Posts: 277
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:39 pm 
 

I'm really surprised that another opinion hasn't yet been voiced: Working a regular job in addition to making music might _improve_ the quality of your music. I mean, some of the best metal I know is made by people who I'm sure can't afford to live on their music alone. They're most often probably working a regular job in addition. Of course, they can't afford fancy studios and expensive production, but it usually doesn't detract much. Nowadays average people can afford enough decent equipment to have satisfactory recording quality.

There is an easy explanation for this: When you are worried about living off your music, there will always be temptation to sell out in certain ways, however minimal. To be successful, it's almost necessary to worsen your music in order to have popular appeal. Of course there are people who make wonderful music and have popular appeal, but that's pretty rare. I've always thought that working a job in addition to working on music would allow me to keep the music "pure" in a certain way, maximizing my ability to genuinely do what I want, making it entirely a labor of love.

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