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infinitenexus
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:35 am
Posts: 1939
PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:50 pm 
 

Never played a Sunn before. I think with a 5150, my firefly, and some solid state amp I'd be set for life. Even still, I'd like to try out basically every other amp out there.
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ShaolinLambKiller
King Asshole

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:10 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:07 pm 
 

Doesn't hurt to try out. I like to try out and collect and shall be utilizing more fully.

Thus far out of all my amps I've only taken advantage of Ampegs, the Sunn Enforcer, and currently my very first Crate amp. But I really haven't been home to fully realize some projects to utilize them how I would like.
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infinitenexus
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:35 am
Posts: 1939
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:13 pm 
 

So on the topic of "orange amps for death metal", I returned my orange dark terror today. It sounds great, but it's too thick/bassy for a Bb tuning. Even with a tubescreamer I felt it was a bit too muddy. It's a shame, because that thing is an absolute tone monster.

In all seriousness, the little $90 orange crush 15 is a great first amp that's capable of playing metal.
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ShaolinLambKiller
King Asshole

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:26 pm 
 

on a different note of the same key... have an option to get a Orange 412 for round bout 500. halfassed thinking of doing so.
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infinitenexus
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:35 am
Posts: 1939
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:29 pm 
 

I've heard they're very high quality. My dark terror, even though I think it was made in china, was absolute top quality. Heavy as hell too, felt like solid lead and roaring loud for only 15 watts. If nothing else the bright orange tolex looks cool.
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ShaolinLambKiller
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Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:10 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:35 pm 
 

I know that's mainly why I want it. hahaha plus to add it to the collection. I almost picked up a 3rd Sunn Concert Lead and Sunn 412L. but total asking was 700 with the shipping and taxes. I'll let that sit cause really it would be my 3rd on both. At first when I emailed about it I thought it was a Beta Lead... if it was that and the matching cab then I would've been more inclinded to get it. But not so much now.
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infinitenexus
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:35 am
Posts: 1939
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:40 pm 
 

I think my issue with Sunn amps is that right now I can't crank them to the volume required to get that roaring sound out of them. My isolation cab works wonders, but even that 15W dark terror started getting pretty damn loud with the volume halfway up. Plus with a 50 year old speaker with a tiiiiiiiny little magnet on the back, it's probably easy to blow (I'm honestly surprised I haven't blown it yet). I've considered building a 2X12 isolation cab basically to get more power handling. I don't want to be overloaded with isolation cabs though. A 15" one would be perfect for something droney though, to get that big thick bass heavy tone. That's what the dark terror would be perfect for, drone metal. Hey do you know if Sunn uses any bass guitars on their stuff, or is it just two roaring guitars and a few odd random sounds and grunts?
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ShaolinLambKiller
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:46 pm 
 

They have a bassist live at the least. I'm honestly not too sure on recordings. It's quite possible though.
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infinitenexus
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:35 am
Posts: 1939
PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:02 pm 
 

I just looked it up, looks like they do.
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ShaolinLambKiller
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:11 pm 
 

more drone to the drone!
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tomcat_ha
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Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:05 am
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 4:40 pm 
 

while im not currently likely to start playing extreme metal on a short term on my guitar i do actually want to do that eventually.
However what i think rather is that i would likely a really unusual tone if i would play death metal. Its just that so many death metal bands sound similar because they use marshalls and peaveys or worse the random generic modern sound.
Seeing that orange requires a lot of shaping if you would use it for death metal makes me actually more interested in getting one of those.

oh and concerning what i have right now, i have a Fender rumble 75 which i use to practice both for my guitar and bass. I had a microcube in the past.
I am also currently starting a black metal band were ill play bass but i have even less of an idea what tone i would like to have. So far my intention is just to go to practice with my sr405 and take my hm2 with me and see what happens.

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ShaolinLambKiller
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:35 pm 
 

reshaping something a ton really negates on why you should use it. If I bought an amp and I have to fiddle with everything and add a bunch of pedals to it to make it passable to play what i want it to sound like.. then I purchased the wrong amp. There are plenty of other amps that are more fitting that aren't standard tone.
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somefella
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:00 am 
 

Regarding trying to go for a unique sound, I guess you can stray around outside the realm of typical death metal amps, so long as they have enough punch/gain, then why not? It might be good training for your hands too, trying to get a heavier tone out of a less heavy amp. This will lend more character to your sound as well.
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ShaolinLambKiller
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:22 am 
 

It's not that they are really less heavy it's more that they are 'spongey' they don't hold together at higher speeds. it's like some of the stuff I've picked up recently. I can't trill pick using them because it's just mess and shit. doesn't matter what technique you use in playing it's not going to translate.
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sea
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 12:36 pm
Posts: 29
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:00 pm 
 

I think an Orange amp would work great for death metal, though you might want to boost it and pick a properly matching cab as others have said (Orange cabs tend to be very specifically paired with their amps). Most of them aren't lacking when it comes to gain, and it would certainly give you a somewhat unique tone in the realm of death metal. I'd say overall they are more suited to warmer/thicker tones along the lines of prog metal or traditional heavy metal (maybe even post-black stuff), though. I would think an EQ pedal is more required for an Orange amp as well, as their tone shaping controls tend to be a bit limited compared to some.

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ShaolinLambKiller
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:28 pm 
 

So you basically said it would be great but you have to do a shit tone of other shit to make it passable. naw dawg.
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infinitenexus
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:35 am
Posts: 1939
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:46 pm 
 

The only real issue with the newer Orange amps (in my limited experience) is that they're way too muddy. The overall tone is great, they have sufficient gain, but they're way too muddy. I used a tubescreamer and a vintage speaker that put out less bass and miced it near the cone and kinda got around it, but you could still hear a bit of flub (granted, I was tuned fairly low, but still). So like SLK said, it'll sound great, but you have to do a lot to get that great sound. It's a deal breaker for me, and the reason I returned my orange amp after 3-4 weeks.

Granted, it would probably be perfect for some sunn O))) type tones. As for me, I'm just going to save my pennies and wait on a 5150.
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elf48687789
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:03 pm
Posts: 1632
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:30 pm 
 

Could be the speaker/cab was to blame, if it has less bass it could sound muddy when you put lots of bass through it.

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somefella
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Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:57 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:52 pm 
 

Nah, I feel the same way too, both when listening to demos or trying out one. It's not terribly muddy but not very clear and you have very little tonal shaping options on the amp itself to help you with that. It just isn't really an amp made for metal. It could conceivably do metal, but there are many better options.
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ShaolinLambKiller
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:17 pm 
 

yea it seems to get good to do something slow and loud, or that faster passed rock/punky where you just need the feel of the root notes to plow through. but anything else, have fun shaping your tone to something that's usable. Or have fun having everyone tell you that they can't make out what you are doing.
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iamntbatman
Chaos Breed

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:55 am
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:17 pm 
 

You could probably do intentionally messy stuff on it pretty well, like Teitanblood. They've got this huge doomy tone for the slow, trudging parts but it just becomes this sloppy blur when they speed up.
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infinitenexus
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:35 am
Posts: 1939
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:11 pm 
 

elf48687789 wrote:
Could be the speaker/cab was to blame, if it has less bass it could sound muddy when you put lots of bass through it.


I tried it through 2 different speaker cabs and 3 different types of speakers, including a vintage 30. Still muddy, and the biggest issue being there was no real way to lessen the mud. That amp seriously needs a 3 band EQ, although I understand it will kinda take away from the minimalist aspect of the dark terror.
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somefella
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:16 pm 
 

I find the dark terror a little LESS muddy, but still muddy nonetheless. For those price options there are so many better options, such that even though Orange amps aren't bad at all, I wouldn't recommend them to anyone for that reason alone.
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infinitenexus
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:35 am
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:42 pm 
 

Yeah, it's really the muddiness that kills them. It's a shame, because the amount of gain and the overall tone of the dark terror are awesome, it's just so muddy.
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somefella
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:46 pm 
 

Yeah dude I like the voicing very much and it does have enough gain to do death metal, it just won't sound very good while doing so. Unless, as mentioned earlier, the Teitanblood sound is your goal, in which case it might not be muddy enough :P
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ShaolinLambKiller
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:03 pm 
 

hahaha I was going to say that suggestion about doing the Teitanblood sound might be possible. It's something I might experiment with on my heads that I know aren't set for faster stuff.
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somefella
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:19 pm 
 

I guess it could work for stuff like older Celtic Frost also.I love Teitanblood but I would never want to play it. My riffing is more from the Kreator/Megadeth/Iced Earth school :D
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ShaolinLambKiller
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:09 pm 
 

I can morph my playing into what I want to hear. Though I really want to develop my more technical thrash playing... well more so in crating those kinds of riffs. I can do more standard fare mindlessly. Just want to improve it more so I can incorporate it more in other stuff.
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somefella
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:51 pm 
 

That's something I'd definitely not use Orange amps for, except for practice hehe(forcing your notes to come out despite the muddiness can do a lot for your technique I'd say)
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ShaolinLambKiller
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:10 pm 
 

well I have seeing if I was going to use my Sunn Enforcer for some future filtheater material. I've done one song on it and it's amazingly clear and defined.. actually more so than I was wanting hahaa.
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http://www.cavepaints.com <--Horrid art and musics.
http://www.facebook.com/MaulerCustomCabs <--- huge heavy/loud boxes I build.
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Deadly_Slaughter
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 7:12 pm
Posts: 114
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:57 am 
 

UPDATE!

So after all is said and done, I decided on a Peavey 6505+ combo, for around $400 and it is awesome. I'll also pick up a tube screamer in the next few weeks and I'm thinking about getting an Orange PPC-112
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ShaolinLambKiller
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:18 pm 
 

Hope it's everything you hope for!
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