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Deadly_Slaughter
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 7:12 pm
Posts: 114
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:56 pm 
 

Title says it all really. Would Orange amps be a good choice for Death Metal? i know they are great for Doom and the like, but any thoughts on Death metal along with Black metal perhaps?

I tried it at my local guitar center with a used Ibanez. I gotta say I was impressed with the sound and clarity of it. Just never recalled any band using an Orange amp except for Heart lol
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somefella
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Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 11:57 pm
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Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:25 am 
 

The rehearsal studio my band uses has a Rockverb and I'd say generally nope, not for death metal. If you have a guitar with high output pickups it might work for melodic death like Arsis, though you have to get more attack in your picking. For OSDM, definitely not.

Generally I find Orange amps to be a more rock/NWOBHM kinda amp, with the possible exceptions of a Dark Terror(though I personally don't like that one either).

EDIT: But then again, I'm the sorta guy whose stand is that gear is nowhere near as important as playing, so as long as you get some juice outta the chugging I guess it should work well enough for rehearsal/live, and recording too(just that it won't be nearly as good as a lot of other options).
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Deadly_Slaughter
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 7:12 pm
Posts: 114
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:59 am 
 

Yea I'm trying to go for some OSDM sound (Gorguts primarily) meets black metal (Emperor and Immortal). But I know there isn't a one size fits all amp and guitar setup. But what do you use for your project? You guys have a great sound and ideally it sounds like what I'm trying to achieve, just a tad clearer or "brighter" I should say.
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Porman
Sweek Souvlaki Muncher

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 5:00 pm
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Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:33 am 
 

I played through one at a gig. Tried the distortion channel and it sounded good enough to play death metal through. I cranked that amp high enough to get a fat, creamy and crispy tone. I think it was a Dark Terror head, I'm not sure. Bear in mind that they have a lot more midrange than other amps!

Go down and try one. (Saw that you played one already).
Let your ears and your taste be the judge.
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somefella
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:59 am 
 

Thanks a lot dude :) Anyway, for the Woe To The Conquered album the guitars were all recorded through a line 6 Uber Metal pedal, through I dunno what amp(though obviously tweaked for minimal discolouration of the pedal tone).

As for the Heretic Priests single (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGdGomBTGsc ) a Blackstar HT-Dist pedal was used.

Don't get so hung up on the guitar tone not being huge or oversaturated(think Engl), you'll layer your guitar tracks so they'll end up a lot bigger than the initial source sound anyway.
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Porman
Sweek Souvlaki Muncher

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 5:00 pm
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Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:10 am 
 

Funny you should mention the Uber Metal. I ended up actually playing that gig with that pedal. If you mic up the amp, then that pedal will more than do it's job. I always play with that pedal if I play through someone else's amp.
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somefella
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:25 am 
 

Yeah it's a great reliable pedal. Not my favourite tone by far, but a lot of tube pedals(which I love the sound of) are a lot harder to maintain and set up.
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Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:01 am 
 

Orange amps are very good, but two things to consider:
-They are very expensive.
-You need to shape the tone with pedals, which are add to the cost.

Assuming you want the thick tone of an Orange, you can get a good tone out of it, and it'll be different than most death metal tones you hear. That's good if you want to sound different, bad if you want to sound the same. The simplicity of these amps and the need to shape the sound with pedals will be different than most amp setups - there is more or less one distorted sound and little control within the amp itself, it sounds good but you need to shape it a lot.

The downside is the cost, for example:
Orange Dark Terror 15W amp - $649
Orange 1x12 cab - $379
Ibanez TS808 tube screamer - $179
Line 6 Uber Metal - $99 (since others mentioned it)
MXR M-108 ten band EQ - $119

That's a very good setup with a lot of control over the tone, you can change and shape it as needed, and play around with it. You can find exactly what you want to record or put into the PA. However, that's $1400+ on a 15W 1x12 setup, and there are some awfully alluring options when you consider a budget like that.

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infinitenexus
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:35 am
Posts: 1939
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:33 pm 
 

I have an orange dark terror that I got on sale along with a 10% military discount. I really like it but like Zodijackyl says, you have to do some tone shaping. I'm using it for death metal but I run a tubescreamer in front of it as a tone filter, and I play it through a 12" alnico speaker from 1961, because it puts out less bass. Otherwise it's a very bassy sound, to my ears excessively bassy, almost muddy. But the gain is awesome.
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ShaolinLambKiller
King Asshole

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:10 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:07 pm 
 

I would say save your money and get something else cause if you are shaping most of your tone with pedals it's kinda pointless to drop that money on one.
really for that grand you drop on the 15w and a single speaker you can shop used and get a half stack that you could use for gigging as well. or if you are really lucky and looking well you can get a full stack.

just last month for around 1200, I was able to get a 2 Sunn 412L, Sunn Concert Lead, Ampeg 140c, and a Krank Krankenstein.

And if I'd ever get anything Orange it'd just be cabs and I know a guy who works making them that I could tap if I wanted that.
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Porman
Sweek Souvlaki Muncher

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 5:00 pm
Posts: 1512
Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:48 am 
 

They are pricey, but that Dark Terror was LOUD! I wouldn't buy one myself either, since there are so many good amps out there.
Just be sure to stay away from modern Marshall's since they suck! Nothing good has come since maybe the JCM 900 and their cabs (not vintage) sound like shit!
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Chainsaw Omega
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2011 1:43 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:26 am 
 

I haven't heard them used for death metal all that much, probably because of convention and the whole "if it ain't broke" mentality that keeps Orange off the stages of death metal bands. I have heard it used with black metal and doom though(Pallbearer use a Rockerverb to absolutely crushing results). To my ear, they sound a bit like a smoother Marshall. Definitely a British voicing, but not as harsh with the high end as something like a JMP or a JCM800. If I were going to use Orange for death metal, live I would use a Rockerverb 50 with a ProCo Rat pedal. Knowing the tone of those two items, I could imagine the results being awesome, though I haven't tried it so I can't say for sure.

I know me and SLK have different ideology on this, but in my opinion, having an amp that can be used as a platform for shaping your tone is more useful than having an amp that does one sound well but doesn't play nice with layering additional pedals on top of it. This is why I greatly prefer a Marshall JCM800 to an amp like an Peavey 5150, Engl Savage, or a Triple Rectifier. With higher gain amps, you tend to be limited by the gain of the amp which is already quite heavy. If you start adding things to them, the results aren't as usable as with Marshall or Orange or Sunn.

What I have sound happens with a high gain amp is when you add a Tubescreamer(or the like), the gain level is effected and your frequency shaping is there, but not too noticeable. Fuzz pedals get a somewhat pleasing tone, but tend to be EXTREMELY noisy. Whereas a Big Muff in front of a JCM800 gives you unreal sustain and warmth, in front of a Triple Rec it gives a very biting tone that quickly transitions into feedback. Results are similar with most distortion pedals as well.

I think what it comes down to is everyone is searching for the "holy grail" of guitar tone and many high gain amps claim to offer that. However, the holy grail is a myth, as is the perfect tone. Playing on an amp that you can shape your tone on allows more versatility in attaining your approximation on the unattainable. High gain amps, to me, seem to go by the motto of "this is the last sound you ever need to use" and that's it. With my JCM800, I can shape my sound appropriately to play rock, black metal, death metal, thrash, sludge, doom, and anything else you can think of. Knowing the characteristics of Orange, I would assume it would attain similar results.

I am, to an extent, oversimplifying this, but I am not exaggerating when I say high gain amps don't play nice with pedals. I'm having a bitch of a time getting my guitarists Peavey XXX to agree with my band's sound because it doesn't play nice with the HM-2. The clean channel on that thing blows. The gain 1 is too brittle with the pedal in front of it, and the gain two is WAY too noisy. Even with a noise suppressor, notes are awash in a sea of white noise, no matter where the gain knob is positioned.

As for which amp to get, that very much depends on what you plan on doing. If you want to play live, I would suggest a 50 or 100 watt head. If for recording only, the Tiny Terror sounds great. I just used one on a record. Classic Marshall sound with a bit more body, very satisfying crunch to it. I can't comment much further since that and the Rockerverb 50 are the only ones I have actually played on, but either one is a good choice.

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ShaolinLambKiller
King Asshole

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:10 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:32 am 
 

Chainsaw Omega wrote:
I know me and SLK have different ideology on this, but in my opinion, having an amp that can be used as a platform for shaping your tone is more useful than having an amp that does one sound well but doesn't play nice with layering additional pedals on top of it.


Oh the thing is just about all the heads I have, can be shaped up nicely with additional pedals, I've had other people jam on some and they have suitcases with pedals and got shit they liked out of it. hell my ampegs are easily used for so many different forms of music without even changing the settings. most of my releases except for like one was all recorded with Ampeg SS150's and a Krank cab. And they sounded different enough that you can't tell it's the same gear on each release. Basically if you can't change up totally how something sounds by your own ability to play and maybe changing out the guitars you are using / tunning used then maybe you should rethink your basics to start with. Cause how you meantioned how you can play all these different styles by shaping your tone to match, I can do all the same by playing them in that style and they sound different themselves not just oh these styles played through the same head.

My ideology is more of why get something that you can't use directly. Something I HAVE to shape to get a tone I like out of it... is just pretty worthless to me. This is also something I picked up from my friend and old guitarist of one of my bands. And he isn't totally against pedals. He used to have a ton and then sold off most of them and then later got a few more just for shits and giggles to mess with in his own time and builds pedals now for people. But he still believes if you can't get a solid great tone out of your head to start with, then just adding more and more pedals really just mucks shit up further. You might like it personally but overall it might be better to anyone else listening. When we played out we would play and constantly guitarists and people would come up and ask him how he got his amazing tone and he would look at them and go "I plug the guitar into this cord, and then I plug that cord into this head. That's it." And when I'm in my shed and some new people come in who I've never met that are there to jam or see other guys in the bands surrounding me they stick their heads in and ask what I'm using and how good shit sounds. I usually just point to the head and say it's all that head, nothing else.
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Porman
Sweek Souvlaki Muncher

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 5:00 pm
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Location: Sweden
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:37 am 
 

We're going a bit off topic here, but I have to agree with SLK here. If an amp doesn't sound good to begin with, chances are, it's not going to sound better with pedals.
If you play a lot of different styles, then maybe a versatile amp is the way to go, but if you really just play brutal stuff, then you should really focus in getting an amp that satisfies your needs.
If all you need is a two channel amp, then there's really no need to buy anything else. You'll just end up paying for shit you'll never use.

And, I can get a great sound with my Peavey 6505 & HM2. It took me a while to figure out the settings, but I got it. Too bad we don't play Swedish Death Metal.

Anyway, if money is not an issue, then I say go for it. 15 watts is enough to record with and I assume that you don't play larger venues/arenas so chances are it's enough if you mic up the amp. It was for me at least.
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somefella
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 12:02 pm 
 

Haha, regarding the amp issue, I favour a distortion pedal with good bypass so it will sound the same on pretty much any amp ;)

But then not many people in my country have their own heads and cabs to rehearse with at home because of the volume issue. 90% of the population lives in apartment buildings so its nigh impossible to get some nice volume at home. I use a tube pedal, the HT Blackfire, for serious playing and the Vox Amplug and a Nux practice amp for not so serious playing/practice.
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Porman
Sweek Souvlaki Muncher

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:37 pm 
 

Oh, I live in an apartment as well but my neighbours are cool. I can crank that mother loud up until 22:00!
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ShaolinLambKiller
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:16 am 
 

I live in a mountain of amps.
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infinitenexus
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:35 am
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:14 pm 
 

I have 4 at the moment. I don't need any more, but I'm keeping my eyes open for something old and neat.
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ShaolinLambKiller
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 5:31 pm 
 

you can always have more.
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infinitenexus
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:35 am
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:18 pm 
 

I'm always looking for reasons to have more. Just have to figure out what I want. I'm on a vintage kick right now, so it'll probably be some older tube amp from the 80s or 70s that I'll have to modify and use a tubescreamer just to get enough gain out of but I'll love it anyways. And I still want to build the AX84 P-1 extreme.

And of course, more guitars.
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ShaolinLambKiller
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:15 pm 
 

You can get some monster fucking tube amps from that era that don't need some stupid tubescreamer.
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infinitenexus
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:35 am
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:45 pm 
 

True, but I'm looking for cheap right now. My Peavey VTM60 sounds awesome, it's just a 1980s clone of a JCM800 but only 60 watts, and that thing roars. $150. I need to find another good deal like that. I'm still waiting on an Ampeg SS150 for cheap, that may take a while though. And the pawn shops around here have shit.
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ShaolinLambKiller
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:46 pm 
 

You'll be waiting for a great while. You know those aren't tube...
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infinitenexus
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:35 am
Posts: 1939
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:37 pm 
 

Yeah but they have a neat sound. Not sure which adjective to use, but they have a sort of "roar" that reminds me of classic Marshalls. Speaking of Marshalls, I have an old Marshall combo from the early 80s that isn't tube either and I like it. An old Lead 12 combo, if you get one of the first years they made them (100 bucks on eBay) and run it through a cab instead of the shitty stock speaker it's got a great classic Marshall roar. I know I'll never use the speaker in this combo so I really need to take a saw to the whole thing and make it a head. I'm just being lazy.

What I'm basically building up to is a guitar/amp combo for each of my musical projects. So I need about 5 of each and I should be good for at least 2 months, until I start wanting more shit. Hahaha.
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ShaolinLambKiller
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:40 pm 
 

hahah I know exactly what you mean, I'm sorta doing that but buying full rigs incase of ever I want to play live and be bigger and louder than anyone there. Cause I'm a bastard.
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infinitenexus
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:35 am
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:11 pm 
 

Me doing everything solo kinda kills my chances at playing live. One I get stationed in Colorado Springs, which should be in roughly a year, I'll be there for the rest of my career and retire there, so maybe then. If I can find anything out there I'll definitely use that as an excuse to get another amp and rock out at full volume, although this damn Peavey VTM 60 is fucking deafening.
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ShaolinLambKiller
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:20 am 
 

wait till you find an ss Ampeg SS 150. Why not get an Ampeg SS140c? It's the same damn amp with 10 less watts and with some reverb. I can find you a couple of combos ones that if you want to later can just convert into regular Ampeg SS140c heads cause all they did with the combos was build the box to throw in two speakers and just plug them directly up to the normal head.
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infinitenexus
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:35 am
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 8:42 am 
 

140 and 150 are both fine, I'll gladly convert a combo into a head. I'm going to do that with my Marshall once I get around to it.

I also kinda want to get an old Fender Ultimate Chorus. When I was 18 my drummer stole one from a church and we jammed with that amp. Tons of volume and I remember it having a surprising amount of good gain, for a fender twin style amp.
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ShaolinLambKiller
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 5:04 pm 
 

I'll pm or if facebook doesn't immediately freeze up I'll message you what I find for ya.
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infinitenexus
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:00 pm 
 

Sounds good, thanks. And no worries if you dont find anything, I'm not in any rush.
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ShaolinLambKiller
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:20 pm 
 

I sent ya some shits.
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infinitenexus
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:35 am
Posts: 1939
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:56 am 
 

That's a really good deal. I think I might have to splurge on that.
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ShaolinLambKiller
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:25 am 
 

Solid, glad I could help ya out.
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soul_schizm
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 6:47 pm 
 

ShaolinLambKiller wrote:
I would say save your money and get something else cause if you are shaping most of your tone with pedals it's kinda pointless to drop that money on one.


Yes, these days I really don't like adding pedals to the mix much. If I find that I need to add things to the signal, I'm likely to simply conclude that the amplifier isn't what I'm looking for in the first place.

I'm not saying that I wouldn't like Orange amps -- I've never played one. But that's how I would approach things. Just find an amp that you can plug into dry and like the tone. You shouldn't need to add a ton of signal processing just to get good, basic, guitar tone.

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ShaolinLambKiller
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:26 pm 
 

Exactly.

I'm glad I'm not alone here in seeing the flaws in that sort of set up.
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Deadly_Slaughter
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 7:12 pm
Posts: 114
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:44 pm 
 

Thank you everyone for all the info!

After much thought, I've decided to skip on the Orange. It is so much for not much use.

One thing I do want to find an amp with great, simple tone. Anything you guys recommend?
Is all the tone we hear on all the OSDM and recent Death metal really just a matter of one certain guitar, with a certain amp, with just the right amount of EQ? Are most of my problems really just a question of EQ as opposed to the set up itself?
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infinitenexus
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:35 am
Posts: 1939
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:37 pm 
 

Deadly_Slaughter wrote:

One thing I do want to find an amp with great, simple tone. Anything you guys recommend?



5150.
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ShaolinLambKiller
King Asshole

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:10 pm
Posts: 11813
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 8:45 pm 
 

Really you can get tons of great tone out of different setups for OSDM. now obviously if you want that Swedish Buzzsaw sound you'll have to get a Boss HM2 or Beringer 3000 which is basically a clone of the HM2.

But anything else can be from what i've witnessed and or use myself like old Marshalls, old Crates, old Ampeg SS or VH series, or Sunn more commonly the Model T or Concert Lead/ Beta Lead, older Randall Rg series.

Oh and yea those 5150's are nice.
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A bunch of mp3s is not a collection of anything.
http://www.cavepaints.com <--Horrid art and musics.
http://www.facebook.com/MaulerCustomCabs <--- huge heavy/loud boxes I build.
http://speedritualrecords.storenvy.com/ Check out my music here

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infinitenexus
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:35 am
Posts: 1939
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:12 pm 
 

Any experience with a crate blue voodoo? I know Mustaine used one for a bit, and you can get them super cheap on eBay and at Guitar Center now. I've never played one personally.
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ShaolinLambKiller
King Asshole

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:10 pm
Posts: 11813
Location: United States
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:15 pm 
 

I had one, they suck cock. And that's literally about the nicest I can say about them. the old shitty Crates solid states have a better crunch.
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A bunch of mp3s is not a collection of anything.
http://www.cavepaints.com <--Horrid art and musics.
http://www.facebook.com/MaulerCustomCabs <--- huge heavy/loud boxes I build.
http://speedritualrecords.storenvy.com/ Check out my music here

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