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TheLiberation
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:56 pm
Posts: 615
Location: Poland
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:29 pm 
 

Zodijackyl wrote:
TheLiberation wrote:
Did not see that one, but I stumbled into these pics for example (was mainly interested in Decapitated's set, Arch Enemy is right up top), and while her style is quite extravagant or whatever, she definitely hardly looks like she's trying to do a "hot chick" kind of thing, to say the least. She looks like a damn Banshee from Warcraft 3.


Looks comfortable to me. What's up with the rest of the band wearing jackets while their singer is sleeveless? There's no way Swedish men could possibly be comfortable with sleeves on an August day in Germany. It can't be at all cold, because their singer has no sleeves and has plenty of rips for ventilation, which are great on hot days. The inconsistent levels of clothing remind me of that really awkward Dukatalon picture.

Rykov wrote:
Yeah, what's with this trend of metal frontpeople baring their skin for publicity? I mean, just look at Matt Pike. I've never seen anybody more eager to bare their tits for attention than him. What an objectified slut.


:lol:

:lol: for both, I nearly fell off my chair laughing at the Dukatalon one.

No idea about the jackets. I can testify myself playing guitar does make the temperature feel a few degrees higher. (Which has been quite helpful recently as it's been damn cold here for whatever reason.)

androdion wrote:
@ TheLiberation - Look, I don't mean to bust your balls or anything like that, but the thing you're talking about was amply discussed in the thread for when War Eternal came out. For pages! Now, I'm one of those people that like BH sees this as a continuity move from the band. They've been better known in mainstream metal circles ever since the vocalist was female, so having one female replaced by another makes them retain their fanbase. That isn't rocket science, just good old marketing. If people want to judge the merits of the album on that alone then they're just dumb, since the songwriting/riffs can be good even with the marketing move. In this case however it really isn't (aren't, neither one nor the other)! War Eternal is just vapid recycled crap on auto-pilot, and picking up on my own terms, a clear continuity move in their careers.

Footnote, I'm a big fan of the band, even with Angela.

I missed that one, wasn't around here then (and either way I doubt I'd stumble into the thread anyway).

I can definitely see the continuity angle, as it's probably one of those cases where the band in theory could just carry on without their "signature element" or whatever, but it would probably not be the best idea to do so. Furthermore, from what I've heard, Angela herself picked her as the successor, which in my opinion makes the "omg they picked her because sexy" theory even more void.

I'm not arguing whether the album is good or bad, it's just that it seems to me that the people who disliked it found it alright to extend their bashing spree into the pretty far-fetched theory that "they can't write a good album so wanted to milk the hot vocalist thing". (And, repeating for the third time, I'm pretty sure no one would ever consider going this route if the vocalist in question was male.) Which sorry, but is hardly quality reviewing, especially that in the process it pretty much attacks her more than anyone else. I don't want to sound like I'm going to burst into tears from the injustice :lol: but I think it's not news on this site that rating the music is more important than conspiracy theories, especially if they have a poor basis. And it seems from the above posts I'm not alone thinking this.
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Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:45 pm 
 

TheLiberation wrote:
:lol: for both, I nearly fell off my chair laughing at the Dukatalon one.

No idea about the jackets. I can testify myself playing guitar does make the temperature feel a few degrees higher. (Which has been quite helpful recently as it's been damn cold here for whatever reason.)


Ever seen someone finish a set on stage without being sweaty? Playing guitar is moderate physical activity in itself. Moving around on stage and headbanging adds to that a lot. On top of that, lighting makes it really hot, or in this case, sunlight. Sleeveless shirts and ripped jeans are the way to go.

Being on stage is really hot and sweaty. I'm not really a fan of female singers nor folk metal, but I envy the ventilation of their skirts and kilts.

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iamntbatman
Chaos Breed

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:55 am
Posts: 7684
Location: Innsmouth
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:55 pm 
 

TheLiberation wrote:
I'm not arguing whether the album is good or bad, it's just that it seems to me that the people who disliked it found it alright to extend their bashing spree into the pretty far-fetched theory that "they can't write a good album so wanted to milk the hot vocalist thing". (And, repeating for the third time, I'm pretty sure no one would ever consider going this route if the vocalist in question was male.) Which sorry, but is hardly quality reviewing, especially that in the process it pretty much attacks her more than anyone else. I don't want to sound like I'm going to burst into tears from the injustice :lol: but I think it's not news on this site that rating the music is more important than conspiracy theories, especially if they have a poor basis. And it seems from the above posts I'm not alone thinking this.


Poor basis? The metal-listening audience includes vastly more men than women. If you think somehow metaldom is free from the same kind of objectification that happens to female characters in video games, you're off your rocker.
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Rykov
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:52 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 8:31 pm 
 

iamntbatman wrote:
Poor basis? The metal-listening audience includes vastly more men than women. If you think somehow metaldom is free from the same kind of objectification that happens to female characters in video games, you're off your rocker.

Vastly? I think you-- as well as a lot of other people-- are overstating just how male-dominated the metal scene is.

That being said, I've already spoken on this site about my sentiments on the ridiculous double-standards to which female metal musicians are held, so I really oughta know better than to try again-- particularly in a thread about reviews :v
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BastardHead
Magic Mike

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
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Location: Oswego, Illinois
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:21 pm 
 

I won't have a computer for a few days here, so I'll have to stick with a short post, but a massive, hearty LOL to anybody thinking Alissa wasn't a pure marketing move. She has a lot of range but they're just making her do what Angela did. And she's clearly okay with it, because exposure and money trumps showcasing talent sometimes.

And yeah no fucking shit we wouldn't have this discussion if they chose a man. I feel like that's either trying to paint me as sexist or trying to sarcastically imply that Arch Enemy's fans aren't mostly the exact type of people who respond well to attractive frontwomen screaming like maniacs. You're completely off your rocker, Lib. You haven't changed at all.
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TheLiberation
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:56 pm
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Location: Poland
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:03 pm 
 

iamntbatman wrote:
Poor basis? The metal-listening audience includes vastly more men than women. If you think somehow metaldom is free from the same kind of objectification that happens to female characters in video games, you're off your rocker.

You're kind of missing my point, which is the exact opposite and Rykov got it perfectly:
Rykov wrote:
That being said, I've already spoken on this site about my sentiments on the ridiculous double-standards to which female metal musicians are held, so I really oughta know better than to try again-- particularly in a thread about reviews :v

She's doing what she likes. She basically lost her long-time status in her previous main band to do this. I hardly see how there is any objectification involved, just people making retarded assumptions about a band they dislike, vastly bringing down the quality of their reviews.

BastardHead wrote:
I won't have a computer for a few days here, so I'll have to stick with a short post, but a massive, hearty LOL to anybody thinking Alissa wasn't a pure marketing move. She has a lot of range but they're just making her do what Angela did. And she's clearly okay with it, because exposure and money trumps showcasing talent sometimes.

And yeah no fucking shit we wouldn't have this discussion if they chose a man. I feel like that's either trying to paint me as sexist or trying to sarcastically imply that Arch Enemy's fans aren't mostly the exact type of people who respond well to attractive frontwomen screaming like maniacs. You're completely off your rocker, Lib. You haven't changed at all.

I find it particularly amusing that you're treating your opinions (with basically no argumentation whatsoever) as obvious fact that's supposed to prove I'm stupid. Man, you've got some genius logic right here.

Who said I changed or that there was a need for me changing? :lol: If you need some conformists to agree with everything you say, look elsewhere. Also, you seem to be trying pretty hard to make me lose my temper. Good luck with that. You're doing as poorly as with your argumentation.

Anyway, I've explained my point well enough already, the people who are not immune to information seem to get it, so enough from me.
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LeMiserable
Milhouse van Houten

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:30 am 
 

TheLib, I just wanna know one thing. How did you come to the conclusion that music/metal is somehow an exception for objectification of women?
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TheLiberation
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:56 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 8:03 am 
 

How did you come to the conclusion I think that?
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LeMiserable
Milhouse van Houten

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:15 am 
 

TheLiberation wrote:
How did you come to the conclusion I think that?


I just get that impression from your words. You genuinely seem to wonder why people accuse her of being there "for the sales".

And if it's not wondering then it's being annoyed by. Which leaves me wondering, don't you have better things to worry about?
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TheLiberation
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:26 am 
 

No. I'm annoyed by the fact that apparently if you're a female musician you immediately have to fulfill much higher standards (and GOD/SATAN/WHATEVER DEITY FORBID you look good, then you're utterly screwed), otherwise if your band fails (at least according to some people), you're immediately accused of being successful only because of looks. Which is retarded no matter what angle you look at it from.

Obviously spending 15 minutes of my life debating this means I can't sleep over what's happening in this thread. :lol: And apparently debating whether Pallbearer are a hipster band is a more important issue than the above, I guess.
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Metantoine
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 11:46 am 
 

God dammit, you're thick. What everyone has been saying about Alissa and Arch Enemy is that it's a perpetuation of a admittedly sexist, vain and capitalist marketing strategy. Alissa isn't a bad vocalist by any means but her type of vocals can be viewed as unisex so instead of choosing anyone else for the job, they went and got another attractive young woman to play it safe. What's bothering me the most is that she ended up quitting her smaller (but still popular) band The Agonist to join the Swedish juggernaut like it was a huge career opportunity, fuck this shit in metal.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:17 pm 
 

Arch Enemy, like Battle Beast, obviously chose a second frontwoman for marketing reasons as well as consistency - it's what sets them apart from other bands and plus, the eye-candy factor can't be totally ignored...it doesn't make them some kind of insidious plot to make money, but to act like it's all pure artistic expression and not just keeping the bands' gimmicks going, is a bit naive. It's business really. Not to say anything negative about either frontwoman either, they're probably fine artists in their own right (though The Agonist is one of the top five worst things I've ever heard in my life, but that's just me).

I dunno though, there are shitloads of women in metal who don't get any of this thrown at them, so I'm not sure what TheLib's problem is...
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TheLiberation
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:56 pm
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Location: Poland
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 12:59 pm 
 

Metantoine wrote:
God dammit, you're thick.

I'm the one who's the least thick in this whole thread, as you can see, as people don't have to repeat something 10 times for me to get the idea. :lol: And unlike some, I don't start using ad hominem attacks against those I disagree with.

And her move was more or less a similar thing that Richie Faulkner did to join Priest. From what I heard, she wanted to remain in both bands, but The Agonist kicked her out. And I'm pretty sure both of them did not think of this as "good business decision". "I CAN JOIN THIS BAND THAT I'VE ADORED ALL MY LIFE HOLY SHIT IS THIS FOR REAL" sounds more like it to me.

Empyreal wrote:
Arch Enemy, like Battle Beast, obviously chose a second frontwoman for marketing reasons as well as consistency - it's what sets them apart from other bands and plus, the eye-candy factor can't be totally ignored...it doesn't make them some kind of insidious plot to make money, but to act like it's all pure artistic expression and not just keeping the bands' gimmicks going, is a bit naive. It's business really. Not to say anything negative about either frontwoman either, they're probably fine artists in their own right (though The Agonist is one of the top five worst things I've ever heard in my life, but that's just me).

I dunno though, there are shitloads of women in metal who don't get any of this thrown at them, so I'm not sure what TheLib's problem is...

That's kinda my point.

Some don't, some do. Don't tell me you've never seen this before. And that it seemed to appear in every negative review of the new Arch Enemy made me facepalm.

EDIT: Either way, I give up, talking to my cat is more productive.
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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2014 3:21 pm 
 

There's also the fact that female extreme metal vocalists may have a different style of self-expression in that medium than male frontmen in general. Even if she was sonically interchangeable with male frontment (so, who exactly? and females rarely are, though the differences are subtler than in clean vocals), a woman's style of performing might legimately be considered a selling point for the band, sexual connotations notwithstanding.
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caspian
Wanderer of the Wastes

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 6:17 am 
 

man, how/why did TheLiberation come back? I thought he'd realized that the general consensus was that he is a huge whinging vagina who was disliked by every single person on the board, but here he's back, doing the same old stuff that made him so widely disliked in the first place...
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GuntherTheUndying
Crimson King, Eater of Worlds

Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:36 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:22 am 
 

TheLiberation wrote:
Either way, I give up.

Oh, so you were just pretending to be profoundly retarded? Wow, you got us good!
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LeMiserable
Milhouse van Houten

Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:42 am
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:24 am 
 

I am genuinely insulted now by the comparisons after having seen what this guy really has up his sleeve... :(
Oh, and TheLib? You could atleast have prevented wasting our/your time by actually talking to your cat
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Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2014 1:04 pm 
 

The key to humor is to make note of an inherently humorous situation.

http://www.metal-archives.com/reviews/V ... PDS/201166

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MeatWolf
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 10:32 am
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:45 am 
 

Jiggleslinky's Maximum Overload review:
Quote:
First off the bass guitar solo (never thought I'd say that in a DragonForce review)

Really? And you pretend to have heard all the previous DF albums. Go check em until you find out where they did that before.

Empyreal's Maximum Overload review:
Quote:
choruses about fighting for freedom and being the saviours of mankind and all that good stuff

Which make less than 30% of this album.

Seriously, what's the point in writing a review based upon what you think you know about the band?

It's kind of sad the band openly confessed they don't want to write tricky elaborate stuff like Ultra Beatdown anymore because people just don't get it and want more accessible songs.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:53 am 
 

I've been listening to them for ten years. I don't get why that tidbit is suddenly damning to my credibility - did I ever say it was my main critique of the album? It was pretty much a throwaway line. And I just don't think the album is really any different from the other stuff, in the end - that was my point throughout the review. If you read the review you know I stated what was wrong with this new album very clearly and it had fuck all to do with what you just quoted.
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BastardHead
Magic Mike

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:02 am 
 

I wouldn't put too much stock into it. When somebody starts nitpicking that finely to find reasons to discredit a review they don't agree with, you can pretty safely tuck it away knowing that you didn't really do anything wrong.
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Diamhea
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 4:58 pm 
 

hammersmashedeverything on Alestorm wrote:
Their 2008 debut Captain Morgan’s Revenge introduced “pirate metal” to the world in a way no band quite had (forget Running Wild, they didn’t really sound like pirates).


Spoiler: show
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OzzyApu
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 5:12 pm 
 

Diamhea wrote:
hammersmashedeverything on Alestorm wrote:
Their 2008 debut Captain Morgan’s Revenge introduced “pirate metal” to the world in a way no band quite had (forget Running Wild, they didn’t really sound like pirates).


Spoiler: show
Image

He isn't real, is he?
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BastardHead
Magic Mike

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:57 pm 
 

So apparently aesthetic genres are not only real, but you can only claim "pirate" if you sound like a Disney attraction.
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MeatWolf
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:34 am 
 

BastardHead wrote:
I wouldn't put too much stock into it. When somebody starts nitpicking that finely to find reasons to discredit a review they don't agree with, you can pretty safely tuck it away knowing that you didn't really do anything wrong.

Where did I say I disagree with the review? On the contrary, I agree with a lot of points in it like that the old 8 minute tracks scheme was much better than what they do now and even with the score, I'd give the album approximately the same numbers. But why saying "it's same old cheesy topics" when it's wrong? The lyrics changed pretty drastically with the departure of ZP and not in a good way, now instead of cheerful glory verses we have a shitty whining like "So why was I born Not a part of this society?". Like, seriously.

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 1:10 pm 
 

They did change, but not very much. They're singing about different things now but still using the same kinds of cliches and words that they were before - now just fit into different meanings of songs, is all. Like on "The Game" they're still singing about "praying for a brighter tomorrow/break free from this lifetime of sorrow" even though the topic of the song is atypical for them.

Complaining about that is ridiculous though. It wasn't a big part of the review and I didn't use it as a means to slag on the album, in fact it was more just a retrospect of their career - i.e. you get the same things as usual for the most part, it isn't that different. Seems incredibly nitpicky to bring it up.
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true_death
Metal newbie

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:09 pm 
 

http://www.metal-archives.com/reviews/S ... Boss/97146

What do you guys think about this review? I'm not a huge Shadows Fall fan either, but I honestly don't understand how words like "faggy" or "emo" can really be applied to their music.

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PhilosophicalFrog
The Hypercube

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 9:27 am 
 

we don't question The Boss. he just does what The Boss does. Then, disappeared....
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Metantoine
The XVI, dominar to over 258714 subjects

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:55 pm 
 

And the award for the reviewer with the shittiest taste on the Archives goes to...
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Diamhea
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:00 pm 
 

Metantoine wrote:


And the award for the reviewer with the shittiest taste on the Archives goes to...
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OzzyApu
Metal freak

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:11 pm 
 

Uh...
Quote:
Instead of becoming an irrelevant copy of its former years, the band has experimented for the majority of its career over the past fourteen years. In Flames continues to do so and the new album is another big slap in the face of those grown old nostalgics. And that’s the way it has to be.

I wonder why bands that did the same shit like Bolt Thrower or Dismember never tried to slap the faces of their fans by doing something completely different. Oh that's right, it didn't really matter as long as the music kicked ass. Wowzers... and since when is playing groove / alternative rock with screams being progressively interesting? A band that did that well was Swedish counterparts Blindside back on their Silence album... 12 years ago. IF are late.
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GuntherTheUndying
Crimson King, Eater of Worlds

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 11:36 pm 
 

Metantoine wrote:

"This is kluseba's sixteenth win and seventeenth nomination."
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caspian
Wanderer of the Wastes

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 2:32 am 
 

Honestly, is that Kluseba review even acceptable? I thought "ranting about elitists" had been an automatic rejection for years.

GuntherTheUndying wrote:
"This is kluseba's sixteenth win and seventeenth nomination."


lol'd at this, was great
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BastardHead
Magic Mike

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:48 am 
 

He uhh... never ranted about elitists?

Regardless, he is wrong. I can see his point but I always thought Grave Digger was at their best when they were just rocking the fuck out. Bordenthal's voice is much better suited to that than anything else. Hell Funeral is one of the best songs I've heard all year.
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LeMiserable
Milhouse van Houten

Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:42 am
Posts: 432
Location: Netherlands
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:51 am 
 

Right...if you even think In Flames make above-mediocre music you're just wrong, and that's a fact.

And he actually seems pretty proud of it.. :ugh: You know, i'm very young so I couldn't care less for In Flames changing their sound as I wasn't even there to take note, but even I acknowledge that In Flames have turned into one of the most generic hard rock/alternative metal(core) bands of modern day and age, and they're not even good at what they're trying to be... I'm pretty sure i'm not alone in this, which makes the first paragraph of his review reek of projection.

Note to kluseba: Just because we don't understand your crappy taste doesn't mean we're close minded elitists, we just hate the music you like. There's a difference, you know...?
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That guy drives me up a wall for some reason. I can't get through a single one of his reviews without wanting to set fire to everything around me.


Last edited by LeMiserable on Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
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caspian
Wanderer of the Wastes

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:29 pm
Posts: 6115
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:59 am 
 

BastardHead wrote:
He uhh... never ranted about elitists?

Regardless, he is wrong. I can see his point but I always thought Grave Digger was at their best when they were just rocking the fuck out. Bordenthal's voice is much better suited to that than anything else. Hell Funeral is one of the best songs I've heard all year.


talking about the inflames review...
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BastardHead
Magic Mike

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
Posts: 5336
Location: Oswego, Illinois
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:03 am 
 

Oh... Diamhea somehow messed up and made Tony's quote link to the Grave Digger one as well, haha
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 19046
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:40 am 
 

Pre-emptively calling it, he's about to come in here and start bitching about how we're all kindergarteners and elitists because we don't coddle his shitty opinions and shittier writing like he's the messiah or something.

But yeah seriously, like whatever you want, why can't you just do a review explaining what you like about the album without METAL ELITISTS ranting? Oh right because you're insecure and deep down you know your taste is god awful.
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EyesOfGlass
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:59 pm
Posts: 72
Location: Argentina
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:35 am 
 

That review was a massive load of shit. Not that I write good reviews, but seriously... Not even I, an enormous fan of In Flames, can take that thing seriously.

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TheStormIRide
Jesuscop

Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:45 pm
Posts: 935
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 11:42 am 
 

I was going to call Siren Charms "Passenger 2.0", but then I listened to Passenger and realized that even that was heavier and better written than Siren Charms.
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