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lord_ghengis
Metal freak

Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:31 pm
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:25 pm 
 

Yes, I most certainly do.
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dystopia4
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:43 pm 
 

Metantoine wrote:
You could also learn to say "hi", "thank you" and "I'll order a poutine with a coke, please" in French!

If you want the new Neige et Noirceur, let me know.

Well I obviously know the first two, the third could come in handy. And yessir, that would be excellent.
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Nebster173
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 8:22 am
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:28 pm 
 

lord_ghengis wrote:
Yes, I most certainly do.


(The quality is shit)


Do you like the part from 1:35 to 2:17 ? Are the riffs good?

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lord_ghengis
Metal freak

Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:31 pm
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Location: Australia
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:42 pm 
 

Yes, but I know where this is going, but there are a few extra little details to discuss before we get into a straight Broken Hope comparison that I'm sure you've got.

Context. This heavy, grooving riff pops up after an extremely fast, kinda jerky section with lots of intensity, likewise the song's earlier chugging groove was drastically different.

Sound. The production here lets the notes at the end of the riff to bend interestingly, adding some extra colour to what could otherwise be a fairly flat riff, not to mention the low end sound is much heavier.

Extra stuff around the sides. The drums here are bombastic and lively, giving the riff a great deal of extra weight and momentum. The vocals also are more drawn out and morbid than what Broken Hope's short and terse grunts could do.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:37 am 
 

Great review of Time I, ghengis. I don't hate the kind of synth-phonic stuff as much as you, but I really have a hard time seeing why anyone bothers giving merit to a fraud like Time I. That shit is ridiculous.
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iamntbatman
Chaos Breed

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:55 am
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:45 am 
 

Haha, that review was fantastic. I honestly can't conjure up that level of hatred for it, but my criticisms of the album are essentially the same. My reaction to it is more just listening to half a track, laughing my ass off for a couple of minutes at the utter ridiculousness of it, then just turning it off and forgetting about it.
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lord_ghengis
Metal freak

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:57 am 
 

It took me at least 8 goes to make it through the first song, that album rubs the me the wrong way in incredible ways. The most actively annoying and infuriating album I know of for me.
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MeatWolf
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 10:32 am
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Location: Russia
PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:14 am 
 

Thanks for bringing this album back to #1 in the most reviewed albums on the site list, mate! There's absolutely no question about the fact more people need to learn about Wintersun's existence.

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lord_ghengis
Metal freak

Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:31 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:51 am 
 

See, everyone can be happy, people who dislike it can side with me, people who like it get to see them top a list, I bring joy wherever I go.
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MeatWolf
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 10:32 am
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:56 am 
 

Right on! Just try going without personal insults for the artists next time, it's not like they stole your cow or murdered your kitten.

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iamntbatman
Chaos Breed

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:55 am
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:02 am 
 

....But the personal insults are clearly the best part! That Mr. Potato Head bit was brilliant.
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dystopia4
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:22 am 
 

Yeah, that was hilarious and Jari comes off like a complete narcissist so I think it's somewhat justified. Great review for an absolutely awful album.
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Diamhea
Eats and Spits Corpses

Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:46 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:27 am 
 

iamntbatman wrote:
....But the personal insults are clearly the best part! That Mr. Potato Head bit was brilliant.


Damn you beat me to it, I was laughing my ass off at that and the "face-room".
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MeatWolf
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 10:32 am
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:00 pm 
 

Quote:
Jari comes off like a complete narcissist

Why? I mean, what did he say/do in particular that made you think so?

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Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:36 pm 
 

lord_ghengis wrote:
It took me at least 8 goes to make it through the first song, that album rubs the me the wrong way in incredible ways. The most actively annoying and infuriating album I know of for me.


Please review Pathfinder's "Beyond the Space Beyond the Time" :D

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Subrick
Metal freak

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 7:27 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:49 pm 
 

MeatWolf wrote:
Quote:
Jari comes off like a complete narcissist

Why? I mean, what did he say/do in particular that made you think so?


It's just how bloated Wintersun's music is and how pompous and egotistical Jari is about it. I do like their first album, and Sons of Winter and Stars is a really good song in my eyes, but Jari carries himself as though he were some new age genius of music. Taking 8 years to make a subpar EP's worth of material is the biggest sign of that.
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Perdition666
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:52 pm 
 

Zodijackyl wrote:
Please review Pathfinder's "Beyond the Space Beyond the Time" :D

I'd love to see Empyreal review Pathfinder, come to think of it.
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dystopia4
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:53 pm 
 

Yeah, just his general sense of pompous self-importance. In my opinion Wintersun have precisely one good song, anyway.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:16 pm 
 

Which song would that be?
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dystopia4
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:30 pm 
 

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BastardHead
Magic Mike

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:34 pm 
 

Further cementing my claim that Ghengis is one of the best reviewers currently doing his thing. He hates it more than I do and for different reasons (I think it ends up sounding pretty close to as big as Jari thinks it is, but it's still unbelievably boring and half-assed), but he presents the argument in such a way that I can't help but agree with anyway.

And also, feel free to disregard MeatWolf. We may hate Jari irrationally but his dimension-spanning mancrush on the guy perfectly balances everything out.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:42 pm 
 

Perdition666 wrote:
Zodijackyl wrote:
Please review Pathfinder's "Beyond the Space Beyond the Time" :D

I'd love to see Empyreal review Pathfinder, come to think of it.


Heh heh, I should. I heard a song off it and thought it was total shit, if I remember right ... I'll give it a shot when/if I can get the album.
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MeatWolf
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 10:32 am
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:55 pm 
 

Quote:
how pompous and egotistical Jari is about it

What do you mean with this?

Quote:
Jari carries himself as though he were some new age genius of music

The fans do that, not Jari himself. Otherwise, reference me to some example other than the usual "it's gonna be the best thing" promo stuff that everyone says about their records every day.

Quote:
Taking 8 years to make a subpar EP's worth of material is the biggest sign of that

He had no means to complete it as he saw the final product so he followed the plan until he was ok with the output.

Quote:
And also, feel free to disregard MeatWolf

I'm pretty fine with people bashing the music but I don't know why people bash the personality especially with, as it seems, so little knowledge of this album creation process. That's just lack of manners and basically ignorance display.

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dystopia4
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:13 pm 
 

Haha, fanboy much?

Seriously though, he just comes off as incredibly egotistical and self-obssessed. There's really not much more to it. Calling someone out on their shit isn't ignorance and in this case it certainly isn't lack of manners.
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MeatWolf
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 10:32 am
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:19 pm 
 

Quote:
Haha, fanboy much?

I am. But let's leave the ad hominem part out of this, shall we?

Quote:
he just comes off as incredibly egotistical and self-obssessed

That's why I asked for reference material to this opinion because I have little idea what made people think that. So far it's been just "he's this and that because he writes music I don't like and dares to make it slower than I want".

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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:28 pm 
 

The music is pretty much shallow, kiddy metal fluff with no substance or meaning to it, but that's neither here nor there, it could be worse off for all that - it's not really a god-awful album musically. The album is a sham because he promised it and promised it for years on end, took like 8 years to release it and then it was only five songs, two of which were instrumental preludes and the other three themselves filled with filler and padding anyway. It's fraudulent bullshit really. The fact that it's now coming up on two more years without anything else just proves he's a sham artist and only doing this to drum up publicity and keep his name in the spotlight with metal fans. Plenty of other bands like Tad Morose and Persuader have taken ages to write albums too, but they at least put out a full album's worth of material afterward that made it somewhat worth the wait. They didn't have Nuclear Blast contracts either, mind you. Make whatever excuses you want, but that's the truth.

If it were a smaller band/artist, and he was more honest about the whole thing and didn't constantly drum up hype for himself every year until the thing was released, it'd be more understandable. While it's true this is all kinda petty to complain about, it's just disheartening to see people go nuts over this and act like it was totally worth it. Have your opinions and all but eh, I just can't see how an actual fan of the music wouldn't think this whole thing was ludicrous. If it was from some band I really loved, I would've blown my stack over this.
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MeatWolf
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 10:32 am
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:38 pm 
 

Are there any excuses out here? Art should not be rushed and I'm not sure Jari himself or anyone else around anyone here was forcing this music down your throat or any other kind of thing like that. But you people talk like that's exactly what's happened or like you sold your apartments and invested in this record and now you're stranded because it didn't pay off.

I think there are better means to drum up publicity rather than posting updates once a year. In which he described the progress of what was going on and didn't promise anything. But I'm not a manager so what do I know. Just the fact the industry wants artists to release an album every once in 2 years doesn't mean those who don't do that should be ostracized. Such pressure benefits the labels' profits not the quality of the final product.

While Persuader generally lost motivation and were busy with their own lives/families, Jari was spending every day with this learn-to-mix-your-soundtrack-with-1-shitty-pc-yourself task. It's kinda funny the dedication to one's vision pays off like this but everyone is free to think it's all just a smart PR play.


Last edited by MeatWolf on Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:40 pm 
 

Jari Maenpaa is the Terrence Malick of metal music. People are willing to make whatever excuses for him taking nearly a decade to make 40 minutes worth of overproduced, bloated, pretentious tripe because he's Jari Maenpaa.
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dystopia4
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:41 pm 
 

Dude, some people don't like the same music as you. Get over it. It's really not that big of a deal.
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MeatWolf
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 2:45 pm 
 

Quote:
Dude, some people don't like the same music as you. Get over it.

In case you missed the inception, I talk over the right to throw unfounded insults at artists, not the music quality.

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Nebster173
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 8:22 am
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:34 pm 
 

I was going to compare it to this.

(3:41 till the end)

The drumming is stiffer in the immolation part, while it's more objective in the broken hope part, thus enhancing the grooves. The transitions in broken hope are more seamless so there's more momentum gained than in immolation's case where it's abruptly gained and lost. The minimal variations within that section elongates the grooves and further builds up momentum. Neither vocal style would fit well with the other band, broken hope's perfectly suitable for their sound. And I can't for the life of me see what's so horribly wrong with the production. I'm not knocking immolation, their uncomfortable songwriting is a big part of what makes them good. But broken hope have a lot going for them also.

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lord_ghengis
Metal freak

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:52 pm 
 

Edit: Yeah, I still find the production in general much flatter, I find the drumming on it too jiggy and friendly compared to Immo's driving heaviness, I liked the presence of vocals during that similar part in Immo, and I liked the surprise factor of it on Dawn of Possession, rather than it being stuck in among a dozen other grooving riffs. I will admit that as a riff on its own it's pretty ok, you have done as was requested of you, but after 3:45 of more of the same crap and with the pathetic sound it doesn't carry much value or excitement for me.

Also, thanks for all the kind words you guys. And at any rate, I only had two personal digs at Jari (well there is a subtle third one), so I hardly went overboard on the personal attacks.
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Zodijackyl
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:02 pm 
 

Empyreal wrote:
I'd love to see Empyreal review Pathfinder, come to think of it.


Heh heh, I should. I heard a song off it and thought it was total shit, if I remember right ... I'll give it a shot when/if I can get the album.[/quote]

This is so dead on that it could errantly be called death metal.
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VariedTastes
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:24 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:29 pm 
 

Ha, Zodijackyl, I love how that one guy took your review title for that Pathfinder album and reversed it.

As for the Wintersun discussion - I really love the ST. It's super technical and wankish and over the top, yes, but it's super catchy and interesting. Time on the other hand is just wankish and over the top. I'd probably rate it in the fifties or so personally, but I still enjoyed that review. It's always interesting to see other people's opinions. Unless they're objectively wrong like this one. http://www.metal-archives.com/reviews/A ... rd_ghengis :wink:
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Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:35 pm 
 

VariedTastes wrote:
Ha, Zodijackyl, I love how that one guy took your review title for that Pathfinder album and reversed it.


You're welcome to write another 0% review and join the power metal man pile on the gay ass fairy metal.

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VariedTastes
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:59 pm 
 

I'm four minutes into one of the songs on that album and I'm not sure whether I should laugh or throw a rock through my computer's screen. I've always thought that a zero for an album was unreasonably harsh but now I'm not sure about that. The album's over an hour long. I don't know if I'm willing to put up with that shit long enough to make it through once let alone the handful of time I'd need to write a review.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:04 am 
 

Don't throw a rock...you wouldn't be able to do a review that way.

Thanks for the praise Zodi; always found it funny how your title says anything above 0% is a lie, but then you give it a 3%, though! :p
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Perdition666
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:09 am 
 

He changed it :P

Props for that review, btw :beer: I quite enjoyed it and you summed up my sentiments on that album better than I ever could. Getting through one song was torture enough, I cannot fathom enduring 72 minutes of that crap.
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Zelkiiro
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:14 am 
 

I dunno about either rating for Pathfinder. It's certainly not worthy of 90%+, that's for sure, but 0% is also wrong. To me, their cardinal sin is being flat-out unmemorable. They pump up the bombast, but play nothing worth getting pumped for. They play very melodically, but perform nothing worth remembering. They try hard to make sing-along choruses, but forgot to make them intuitive or even likable enough to sing along to. It's just dull, despite their frenzied energy and earnest intensity.

When they worshipped at the altar of Rhapsody, their hands must have been covering the plaque that read, "And furthermore, thou shalt construct infectious melodies for thy congregation to rejoice in. For if thy musicks are quick to be forgotten, then thou hast failed."
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:17 am 
 

Perdition666 wrote:
He changed it :P

Props for that review, btw :beer: I quite enjoyed it and you summed up my sentiments on that album better than I ever could. Getting through one song was torture enough, I cannot fathom enduring 72 minutes of that crap.


It's probably my favorite review I've done in a long time now. Thanks.

And I dunno, if it had even a handful of good choruses I woulda given it a few points probably, but those were just mush like the rest of it. I just couldn't get behind the shapeless, random songwriting ... they really need to work on that.
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