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androdion
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:14 pm 
 

The newest Beyond Creation review. :nono:

Where should I start?! Probably at the bass being inaudible (which it isn't), or at it being just following the guitars (which it isn't), or at it not being progressive (which it is), or at it not trying to be evil (why should it?), or the comparison to Brain Drill (seriously?!). But what I find immensely paradoxal is how Subrick can love Obscura and bash Beyond Creation when both of them use many of the same elements. And why are Opeth even mentioned in that review?! Unless you think that they're the prime example for what is prog death... :roll:

Granted I agree with some of the points being made, namely that the album is nothing new or groundbreaking or even different from the norm. Alas it's an amalgamation of Obscura, Necrophagist and Augury if you will, so nothing new. And it's loud and compressed like any other modern tech death album, it has triggered drums that don't sound as good or natural as they should, like any other modern tech death album. So why the surprise really?!

I like this album, a lot actually, and I can understand people having negative opinions about it and making them heard (read), but the reasoning made on that review made me come here and rant my ass off. So sue me! :D
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:25 pm 
 

The bass was inaudible throughout most of the record save for a couple moments of it peeking out in a couple songs. From what I heard of it, it just sounded like it was playing what the guitar was playing. Also, I was not calling Beyond Creation a Brain Drill clone. I was saying that most modern tech death that I've heard uses that formula. Beyond Creation do have a lot of that style in them, but they aren't a strict Brain Drill clone since at the very least BC has some kind of structure to their music. Overall, however, they sound incredibly generic. As for the Opeth mention, I put that in there because that whole first part of the conclusion was mentioning bands that I feel do modern tech death right, and, as quoted from the review, "If we were to lapse over into the progressive death metal category that die hard fans of this album like to place it in...", leading to my mentioning Opeth as a band I feel does that style great (or did since they don't seem to be going back to heavier material anytime soon). I was not saying that Opeth are the benchmark for prog death, I was saying that I personally think they do it great.
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Necroticism174
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Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:46 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:33 pm 
 

androdion, don't bother. His reasoning, or lack thereof makes it seem like he's reviewing an entirely different album cause it sure isn't remotely accurate. Bringing up Opeth sure made me laugh though.
Also '' I do like modern tech death, I honestly do, but only when it's done at a level that isn't just aping off clones of clones of that horrible Brain Drill style. Bands and records such as Obscura, Origin, and the newest Suffocation record I feel do modern technical death metal spectacularly'' this part is super funny.
Complains about a bunch of shit involving tech death.
Loves Origin, a shining example of what he just complained about.
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MalignantThrone
Vanished in the Cosmic Futility

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:36 pm 
 

Subrick wrote:
they aren't a strict Brain Drill clone since at the very least BC has some kind of structure to their music.

Oh puh-leeze. Brain Drill's ostentatious style of wank may be too overblown for people to appreciate and that's certainly okay, but anyone who says they aren't structured is clearly just pulling stuff out of their ass. They're not verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus, sure, but you can't listen to this and tell me that their riffs don't flow into each other relatively well considering what they're playing.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:45 pm 
 

It just sounded like a bunch of sweeping and tapping exercises cut and pasted together with the occasional actual riff thrown in there. Quite a few transitions were incredibly jarring, like an amusement park ride that stops suddenly and then starts in reverse.

When it comes to death metal, I base a lot of what I think of a record on memorability. That's the cardinal sin of Beyond Creation for me; there's nothing that I can remember that I don't have to go and turn on the song again, after which I probably still won't remember it after a little while. It was my exact same problem with the latest Nile record.
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androdion
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:47 pm 
 

I still don't get how you can complain about the bass, I mean how many times have you heard the actual album? The bass is audible most of the time and keeps noddling here and there, which is even more noticeable because of it being fretless (which gives it a more distinctive sound). And I still can't understand how you like Obscura and loathe BC, or as Necro said, complain about BC and praise Origin of all bands. There's a lot there that doesn't make sense man...
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:50 pm 
 

I say go back to my comment about memorability. Origin I like because I can remember stuff that happens in their songs, as well as not just feeling like it was a bunch of separate guitar clips that were put together in a program like how Brain Drill and Anomalous feel. It's the same kind of frenetic, non-stop style that Beyond Creation does, but Origin just do it a HELL of a lot better.

Also, Obscura I initially got into because of the heavy Death influence in their material. It sounded as if you combined Symbolic or TSoP era Death with more traditional death metal elements like blasting. With BC, I do hear some of that old school tech death influence through the fretless bass (I will give them credit for using that, especially since the few times the bass peeked out in the mix I could tell it was fretless), once again Obscura just do it a whole lot better.
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androdion
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:02 pm 
 

Mmm... okay then. Oranges vs apples I guess. Still I think it wouldn't harm you to listen the album a couple of times more because of two things. One, the bass is much more prominent in the mix than any of your reasoning makes it seem, and it is indeed wonderful throughout the entire album. Two, the album does get better with repeated spins, I think the plastic production is a bit of a turn off at first but after a few spins the album begins to unveil more layers. I remember not being highly enthralled by it with the first couple of spins, but afterwards it started making a lot more sense. But then again I love Augury/Dominic Laponte so I would always be partial to BC in the end.

If anything I think that The Aura is an actual modern tech/prog death album that manages to avoid most of the trappings that others don't. It doesn't abuse of wank despite being wanky, it has a good interplay of brutality and melody, it has technical flair as much as thuggish bluntness. In the end I think this is an album that shines a glimmer of hope on a scene oversaturated by clones, as it manages to have its own personality.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:10 pm 
 

With tech death I approach newer bands very lightly since most of them just sound the same to me. I'm much more into Death, Cynic, and Atheist than I am most modern bands. With modern tech death, the only bands that I keep finding myself coming back to are Obscura, Origin, and Nile (well, Nile before At the Gate of Sethu, which only had one song on the whole thing that I liked). That's why I generally don't either review or listen to a lot of tech based bands; it'll be like the musical equivalent of me drinking an energy drink that tastes exactly like Red Bull and then talking about it.
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androdion
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:16 pm 
 

Subrick wrote:
With tech death I approach newer bands very lightly since most of them just sound the same to me. I'm much more into Death, Cynic, and Atheist than I am most modern bands.

You and me alike. That's exactly one of the reasons I enjoy BC so much, they have immense replay value and a proper identity instead of just aping other bands (despite the fact that they're actually doing it). I simply love the neoclassical vibe on the album, and the way it melds with the bass playing is just delightful.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:18 pm 
 

The stuff seems like it'd translate a bit better in a live setting than on the record. On the record it just sounds really lifeless, but live it seems like with a decent crowd and whatnot it could be a fun experience.
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Zodijackyl
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:21 am 
 

The third paragraph had some good points, but you really didn't focus on the points, rather you interspersed them with commentary that didn't really push the point you were trying to make, sort of like how Beyond Creation make music. I think you reinforced the points poorly with the comparisons to other bands, and "I like this but not this". You really didn't need to address the reputation of the album, making the points about the music should say that, rather than contesting your perceived notions about its reception. The references to guest members split up a paragraph with some good points about the guitar riffing and the sterile, sampled sound of the drums. The way you interspersed the notes about the album's reputation and other bands seemed like you concentrated on justifying having what you perceived to be an unpopular opinion, rather than hammering some key points home.

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MEGANICK89
Metal newbie

Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:15 pm
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Location: Cleveland, OH
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:42 pm 
 

After reading Evil_Carrot's MOP review, I decided to take a look at Ultraboris'....uh take on it again. Man that thing never gets old. I don't agree with all his points, but that thing is so entertaining to read.

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Slag
Metalhead

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:10 pm 
 

I actually agree, for the most part, with UltraBoris' thoughts on MOP, last I checked. :P

Where did the new Borknagar - Urd review go?
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XcKyle93
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:14 pm 
 

You know, metal-archives should really display the median scores instead of the mean scores of reviews. This way, assholes won't get the satisfaction they seek when their one negative review drops an album's average significantly. In fact, his rating would have virtually no effect on "The Aura": it'd "drop" to a 98%. Prior to his review, the average was a 99%, based on 5 reviews, now he, with the click of the mouse and a few hastily written paragraphs, dropped the album's average by 12%.
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The Red in the Sky is Ours and select songs off With Fear... is the compositional height of death metal, if not all of metal. Better than ten Super Bowls.


Ah yes, the death metal phenomenon that is the Super Bowl.


Last edited by XcKyle93 on Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Metantoine
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:18 pm 
 

Yeah, well that's life, I don't think it's quite necessary. It would be for ultra lazy people who can't click on the album and check the scores.
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XcKyle93
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:01 pm 
 

Well, just saying, it's like one of the first things that you learn in baby statistics, that the mean is not a resistant measure of change.
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narsilianshard wrote:
Chaosmonger wrote:
The Red in the Sky is Ours and select songs off With Fear... is the compositional height of death metal, if not all of metal. Better than ten Super Bowls.


Ah yes, the death metal phenomenon that is the Super Bowl.

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caspian
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:59 pm 
 

Kyle, I think the main problem is that you're way too hung up on an average of one of your favourite albums. 87% is still a good average. TO summarise: www.whocares.com
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Zodijackyl
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:56 am 
 

Excellent, detailed, in-depth review. I couldn't have explained it that well myself, it's one of the best and most accurate reviews I've read in a while. The writing notes some of the weaker points well, but shows that the strengths are very strong.

http://www.metal-archives.com/reviews/V ... 44/Ilwhyan

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Metantoine
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:00 am 
 

8 points review by the way ;)
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Necroticism174
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:20 am 
 

Great review. I don't know how this band slipped me by, as they sound awesome.
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Ilwhyan
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:19 am 
 

XcKyle93 wrote:
This way, assholes won't get the satisfaction they seek when their one negative review drops an album's average significantly.

How can you be so cynical?
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Grave_Wyrm
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:26 pm 
 

Yeah that was very good. Comparing it to autothrall's was also interesting. Ilwhyan's was much easier to read, not to mention more informative. It's compelling when a review not only speaks highly of an album, but conveys the impression of the thing in surprisingly simple, accurate language. Wish I had time to listen to it right away.

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XcKyle93
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:17 pm 
 

Ilwhyan wrote:
XcKyle93 wrote:
This way, assholes won't get the satisfaction they seek when their one negative review drops an album's average significantly.

How can you be so cynical?


Are you trying to be sarcastic? I can't tell.

And also, BC's debut is far from one of my favorite albums. You missed my point, Caspian. I thought it was unique tech-death and while I wouldn't have rated it as high as as 95+%, I could agree with the previous rating. I just hate when people try to ruin a good thing for no good reason :). Plus, I thought his review was completely invalidated when he said that the bass was inaudible. Makes me think that he barely listened to the album.
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narsilianshard wrote:
Chaosmonger wrote:
The Red in the Sky is Ours and select songs off With Fear... is the compositional height of death metal, if not all of metal. Better than ten Super Bowls.


Ah yes, the death metal phenomenon that is the Super Bowl.

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Peroy
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:38 pm 
 

That bass is CLEARLY audible...

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Metantoine
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:48 pm 
 

There's so many factual inaccuracies, the review almost deserves a rejection.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:11 pm 
 

I took it down. I still stand by my opinion of the album, but after reading it again the review is admittedly not one of the better ones I've written.

Everyone satisfied now?
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androdion
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:10 pm 
 

Subrick wrote:
Everyone satisfied now?

I would be satisfied if you stated your negative opinion about the album in a well written and substantiated review. ;)
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Metantoine
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:32 pm 
 

Also, get better headphones or speaker to hear the bass.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:54 am 
 

http://www.metal-archives.com/reviews/D ... /195/Kruel

It doesn't sound like Burzum? Must be crappy pop music. Thank fuck this idiot stopped reviewing.

While he has some decent points and the review isn't delete-worthy, I just think that comparison to "My Journey to the Stars" is silly.
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Peroy
Metal newbie

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 9:38 am 
 

Empyreal wrote:
http://www.metal-archives.com/reviews/Dream_Theater/Images_and_Words/195/Kruel

It doesn't sound like Burzum? Must be crappy pop music. Thank fuck this idiot stopped reviewing.

While he has some decent points and the review isn't delete-worthy, I just think that comparison to "My Journey to the Stars" is silly.


Kruel review from a kruel guy... :)

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Subrick
Metal freak

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:35 am 
 

That stupid Images and Words review wrote:
Another attempt at progressiveness resorts to the old, useless trick: diversity.


Because god forbid that a band try and branch out into different styles of music. That'll just be the end of all sound as we know it! :roll:
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Zodijackyl
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:54 pm 
 

Prog guys are the worst about equating an adjective to quality. I think it's worse that some clown constantly refers to Black Sabbath in terms of how prog they are in his reviews.

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OzzyApu
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:56 pm 
 

Zodijackyl wrote:
Prog guys are the worst about equating an adjective to quality. I think it's worse that some clown constantly refers to Black Sabbath in terms of how prog they are in his reviews.

I don't even have to check to know who you're talking about. :lol:
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Wilytank
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:13 pm 
 

Subrick wrote:
That stupid Images and Words review wrote:
Another attempt at progressiveness resorts to the old, useless trick: diversity.


Because god forbid that a band try and branch out into different styles of music. That'll just be the end of all sound as we know it! :roll:


Even Burzum diversified and started throwing ambient into the black metal mix including one 25 minute long pure ambient piece. SELLOUT!

On the other hand, I can agree that branching out in the wrong directions can lead to disaster. I really can't stand "Take the Time"'s Michael Jackson influence.
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Subrick
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:02 pm 
 

I will never fault a band for taking their music into a different direction, but I will fault them if that new direction flops creatively.
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shouvince
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:47 am 
 

Oh yeah, he's the same guy who rated 'Dopethrone' with a 0%. He's done that with a couple of good albums. Anyway, I read two lines into that 'Images...' review and closed it. Did you see the "cool" pentagram he's got on his page?

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Wilytank
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:13 am 
 

I think one of his most amusing ones is for Si, Senor. These Monuments Require Circumcision Spice by Deathspell Omega. (link)

"Christian music."

Also another wild comparison to something that doesn't sound at all like this: saying that the bass doesn't sound like Nagelfar's Srontgorrth's bass.
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noisefreak
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Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:22 am
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:30 am 
 

Subrick wrote:
I will never fault a band for taking their music into a different direction, but I will fault them if that new direction flops creatively.


Well said

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Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:09 pm 
 

Wilytank wrote:
I think one of his most amusing ones is for Si, Senor. These Monuments Require Circumcision Spice by Deathspell Omega. (link)

"Christian music."

Also another wild comparison to something that doesn't sound at all like this: saying that the bass doesn't sound like Nagelfar's Srontgorrth's bass.


It's a good review in how it addresses the aesthetic of DSO. The whole appeal of the band is that they're a boring blasty black metal band mixed with some tech-death methodologies while having a continuously dissonant atmosphere, BUT it's orthodox satanic black metal and there are prayers and chants! This review addresses the absurdity of their appeal well, as well as the nauseating length of the album. "Christian music" is an interesting way to put it, but the explanation is pretty much perfect for how the album was received.

One of the things that a lot of recent French BM has had a problem with is being incredibly boring music while focusing on a sterile, dissonant atmosphere. Deathspell Omega and Merrimack both tend to do so, and in DSO the atmosphere gets disconnected from the music itself at times. Sounds like 1349 got lost while playing Adramelech riffs and decided to pray their way out.

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