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TyphonTheMetalNerd
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:45 pm
Posts: 2
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:59 am 
 

How exactly does one review NSBM when one does not support NSBM idealistically?

Is it as simple as stating, "I support metal, not National Socialist Black Metal" and then going on with the review as per usual?
I debated not doing the reviews at all, but this label took the time to send me a box of this stuff so it still deserved a review, right?

Ugh...

Thanks in advance.

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MalignantThrone
Vanished in the Cosmic Futility

Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 1:24 am
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Location: A step closer to home
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:47 am 
 

You would review it just like you would review any other band, ideologically-fueled or otherwise - tell people about the music and what you do and don't like about it. People aren't so thick-skulled as to assume that anyone reviewing an NSBM band is a National Socialist, in the same way that it'd be retarded to assume that all of Deathspell Omega's reviewers are Satanists.

Don't even mention the ideology of the band in your review if thinking about it gets you that upset. If some of your readers actually seriously care about whether a band is NS or not, they'll know before they even begin reading your review.
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Wilytank
Not a Flying Toy

Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:21 am
Posts: 3345
Location: United States
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:26 pm 
 

TyphonTheMetalNerd wrote:
Is it as simple as stating, "I support metal, not National Socialist Black Metal"


That part isn't even necessary. Just review the album like you would any other album be it about National Socialism, church burning, or animal fucking.
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Markov
Metalhead

Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:01 am
Posts: 474
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:56 pm 
 

Like everyone said, review the music just as you would any other. People review Cannibal Corpse because it is good, entertaining music, not because they support rape, gore, etc.

It's a lyrical theme, just like any other. You're reviewing the music, not the ideology.
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Napero
GedankenPanzer

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 4:16 pm
Posts: 8459
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:05 pm 
 

Including an opinion in a review on an NSBM album is just as relevant as it is in a review on a Cattle Decapitation album, or one of the opinionated punk-influenced bands; the ideology is an even more important driver in making the music in the first place if the band is an NS oriented group (or a baldie or two in their bedrooms, as it usually seems to be...), and it certainly has a huge influence on the music; it's also a considerable reason for the crap being released by "labels" at all, considering the average quality of the scene. It's up to the reviewer, of course, but personally I wouldn't be able to resist poking the retards with a stick.
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TheStormIRide
Jesuscop

Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:45 pm
Posts: 910
Location: United States
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:04 pm 
 

Napero wrote:
but personally I wouldn't be able to resist poking the retards with a stick.


Best quote in forever.

I agree completely with the above statement.
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Empyreal
The Final Frontier

Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:58 pm
Posts: 18847
Location: Where the dead rule the night
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:43 am 
 

Markov wrote:
Like everyone said, review the music just as you would any other. People review Cannibal Corpse because it is good, entertaining music, not because they support rape, gore, etc.

It's a lyrical theme, just like any other. You're reviewing the music, not the ideology.


Completely wrong, that's basically only reviewing half of a finished product. Disregard the ideology if you want, that's your own opinion, but there is nothing wrong with others being put off or having their opinion affected by one. I think people who say stuff like this don't really understand a lot of things. For one - that people make music because they feel strongly about something. Sometimes they just feel strongly about making cool music, or supporting their scene, but other times it's more serious, and we can't just ignore that all the time.
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MalignantThrone
Vanished in the Cosmic Futility

Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 1:24 am
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Location: A step closer to home
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:51 am 
 

Empyreal wrote:
Completely wrong, that's basically only reviewing half of a finished product. Disregard the ideology if you want, that's your own opinion, but there is nothing wrong with others being put off or having their opinion affected by one. I think people who say stuff like this don't really understand a lot of things. For one - that people make music because they feel strongly about something. Sometimes they just feel strongly about making cool music, or supporting their scene, but other times it's more serious, and we can't just ignore that all the time.

It's only "more serious" if you feel the need to take offense at people having strong opinions which are opposite your own. It'd be like me bashing a band because the "thank you" list in the liner notes of their album includes a lot of bands that I think are awful.
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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6393
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:39 am 
 

If music inspired by passionate hatred for black people was musically excellent according to your tastes, but the source of inspiration was strongly opposed to your ideologies, it still shouldn't matter. The music is excellent regardless of how misguided the musicians are and what kind of nefarious beliefs they hold. If these beliefs somehow influenced an album's musical aspects, and yet the music was in concordance with your tastes, it shouldn't matter. Only the musical output is important, not the motives and sources of inspiration. For example, consider some simple musical unit such as a chord progression. There is a certain powerful sounding chord progression that you like quite a bit, and most of your favourite songs use that progression prominently. A NSBM musician felt that the same progression portrayed the strenght of his hatred for non-whites, and consciously decided to use this progression in his racialistic music. Even if you don't believe any race to be inferior to any other, you still enjoy the same chord progression this NSBM musician found appropriate for his racialistic music. Even thought he had some partially metamusical motivation to use that musical element due to association with some imagery, the musical element remains unchanged - just as none of your favourite songs featuring this same progression are tarnished by the NSBMer's choice, the song he wrote bears no ideological message. This is because music is completely abstract, and the only meaning it has comes from association and context.

If the lyrics are noticeably obnoxious and you feel terrible every time a beautifully sang chorus praises Hitler, or an awesome scream audibly proclaims hatred for jews, they still affect your enjoyment of the album and should therefore be taken into account in the rating.
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BastardHead
Magic Mike

Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 7:53 pm
Posts: 5238
Location: Oswego, Illinois
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:55 pm 
 

Ilwhyan wrote:
If music inspired by passionate hatred for black people was musically excellent according to your tastes, but the source of inspiration was strongly opposed to your ideologies, it still shouldn't matter. The music is excellent regardless of how misguided the musicians are and what kind of nefarious beliefs they hold. If these beliefs somehow influenced an album's musical aspects, and yet the music was in concordance with your tastes, it shouldn't matter. Only the musical output is important, not the motives and sources of inspiration. For example, consider some simple musical unit such as a chord progression. There is a certain powerful sounding chord progression that you like quite a bit, and most of your favourite songs use that progression prominently. A NSBM musician felt that the same progression portrayed the strenght of his hatred for non-whites, and consciously decided to use this progression in his racialistic music. Even if you don't believe any race to be inferior to any other, you still enjoy the same chord progression this NSBM musician found appropriate for his racialistic music. Even thought he had some partially metamusical motivation to use that musical element due to association with some imagery, the musical element remains unchanged - just as none of your favourite songs featuring this same progression are tarnished by the NSBMer's choice, the song he wrote bears no ideological message. This is because music is completely abstract, and the only meaning it has comes from association and context.

If the lyrics are noticeably obnoxious and you feel terrible every time a beautifully sang chorus praises Hitler, or an awesome scream audibly proclaims hatred for jews, they still affect your enjoyment of the album and should therefore be taken into account in the rating.


I hate (love) to pimp myself here, but this is essentially my Arghoslent review in 2000 less words, so clearly I agree with it completely. My personal view has always been that if you can make a connection to music on a non-musical level, then that's great because it enhances what you would normally like anyway, but if it is made out of passion for beliefs opposite yours, you can still enjoy it on a purely musical level. It's really about how you personally interpret and absorb music.
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oneyoudontknow
Cum insantientibus furere necesse est.

Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 6:25 pm
Posts: 5309
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:29 pm 
 

So, how would you deal with this then:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heimkehr

One of the most disgusting movies ever created by man; especially when you consider the historical context. Along with Feinde it had been used to justify the invasion of Poland and it is a very anti-semitic film.

A long discussion of it and the historical context (in German) can be found here:
http://www.heise.de/tp/artikel/36/36484/1.html
http://www.heise.de/tp/artikel/36/36487/1.html
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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6393
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:55 pm 
 

Film is not quite as abstract a form of art as music. I don't see how the movie above is relevant to this discussion.
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John_Sunlight
President Satan

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
Posts: 4679
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:24 pm 
 

Having a wrong message makes music less enjoyable for me when I hear it than it would be if it didn't have such a message. I know this is the case based on the fact that I have heard things that I liked, later found out that they had a message I disagree with, and then found the music wasn't as enjoyable. This is the objectively reality of my experience and if I was reviewing the music in question I'd rate it lower than I would have before this change occurred.

If your experience is similar to mine, you can use a similar logic to make your judgements and scores.
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oneyoudontknow
Cum insantientibus furere necesse est.

Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 6:25 pm
Posts: 5309
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:07 pm 
 

Ilwhyan wrote:
Film is not quite as abstract a form of art as music. I don't see how the movie above is relevant to this discussion.

of course it is ... what about universal declarations. It does not matter to what you apply it to. Context does not matter in this regard.
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Ilwhyan
Metel fraek

Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 6393
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:59 pm 
 

Film depicts events, people and places through visual and auditory demonstration, whereas music is merely pitch, rhythm, dynamics and timbre. Music and lyrics can be treated separately, whereas events and ideals expressed in film cannot be removed from the equation without altering the medium so as to make it unrecognisable. Lyrics' content is a secondary element of music, and the audio itself is entirely abstract and carries meaning only through association (which is most effectively done using lyrics), though admittedly there's generally an inherent emotional value in the most commonly used melodies and intervals.
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iamntbatman
Chaos Breed

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:55 am
Posts: 7504
Location: Innsmouth
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 4:26 pm 
 

John_Sunlight wrote:
Having a wrong message makes music less enjoyable for me when I hear it than it would be if it didn't have such a message. I know this is the case based on the fact that I have heard things that I liked, later found out that they had a message I disagree with, and then found the music wasn't as enjoyable. This is the objectively reality of my experience and if I was reviewing the music in question I'd rate it lower than I would have before this change occurred.

If your experience is similar to mine, you can use a similar logic to make your judgements and scores.


This is how it goes for me as well.

Unlike others, I am not able to separate the ideology from the music, nor do I want to. I don't have the mental prowess some others seem to possess to shut out subconscious knowledge that a particularly triumphant chord progression was inspired by racial hatred, belief in white supremacy or a love for Jesus (or whatever other belief system might inspire music that one might object to on ideological grounds) once I become aware of a band's inspirations for their music.

Edit: oops, didn't mean to necro an old thread, but it was only halfway down the front page so I didn't realize how old it was.
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Panflute
Metalhead

Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:11 am
Posts: 448
PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 7:51 pm 
 

While I have personally never reviewed NSBM (which is coincidence more than anything), I would probably analyse the nationalism in their ideology and try to draw a parallel with their music, as nationalism (which is something distinct from NS, yes) is a topic I have always been interested in. This means I probably would not be able to review intellectually void music such as Der Stürmer as there is nothing interesting to be said about their music or lyrics, but there are bands out there that offer pretty interesting lyrical content regardless from whether you agree with it or not.
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Nebster173
Metal newbie

Joined: Thu May 17, 2012 8:22 am
Posts: 301
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:43 am 
 

What if the vocals were unintelligible, and you liked a song the first time you've heard it? And then read the lyrics and listened to it again. I don't understand how it's worse the second time around.

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