Encyclopaedia Metallum: The Metal Archives

Message board

* FAQ    * Search   * Register   * Login 



Reply to topic
Author Message Previous topic | Next topic
Dembo
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:58 am
Posts: 86
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:15 pm 
 

Has writing "philosophy" in the lyrical theme box ever helped anyone form an image of what the lyrics is about? 937 bands have this, often thrown around, word as their lyrical theme at the moment. I randomly clicked on a couple of those and read some lyrics, and I don't really see what they have to do with philosophy.

Is that "description" really worth using, except from when the lyrics really are about ideas of the sort you'll study on philosophy courses? That sort of lyrics is much more rare than what a search on the Archives today may have people think.

Top
 Profile  
John_Sunlight
President Satan

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
Posts: 4737
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:30 pm 
 

Good point, I've noticed this as well. Those bands' lyrics should be looked at to see what they are actually about. Most bands who's lyric field says "philosophy" probably aren't singing about hegel's dialectic or kant's categorical imperative.
_________________
"Since that time, I have received highest level confirmations that such organizations not only exist but are rooted in satanic ritual murder and extend across America’s political landscape into nearly every community."

Top
 Profile  
DreamOfDarkness
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:09 pm
Posts: 191
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:03 pm 
 

I think when combined with other lyrical themes "philosophy" can be a legit and helpful theme. It usually indicates that the band discusses social or personal themes on an abstract and fundamental way, raising questiones that usually make the listener think about these issues. At least that's what I experienced with bands that have the "philosophy" tag.

Top
 Profile  
John_Sunlight
President Satan

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:41 am
Posts: 4737
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 6:34 am 
 

Do they really do that, or are you imagining things?
_________________
"Since that time, I have received highest level confirmations that such organizations not only exist but are rooted in satanic ritual murder and extend across America’s political landscape into nearly every community."

Top
 Profile  
Dembo
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:58 am
Posts: 86
PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:34 am 
 

That's not my impression. But even if that's the case, they should have "social issues", "society", "political", "emotions", "spirituality", or something more specific than "philosophy" as description of their lyrics.

Top
 Profile  
DreamOfDarkness
Metal newbie

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 4:09 pm
Posts: 191
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:32 pm 
 

Some other bands such as Psychotic Waltz, Lykathea Aflame and Sieges Even are fitting in this category I mentioned, imo. They have abstract themes, but not fictional ones. They tend to discuss the core theme of something... Let's choose "freedom". Unlike many other bands they do not tell a story (real or ficitional) to explain it, but deal with it directly ("What is freedom?" "Is it always good?"...). And this is not always linked to social issues or emotions, so I'd like to keep the tag when it is used in combination with other ones.

Top
 Profile  
Fulgurius
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:51 am
Posts: 1068
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:30 am 
 

Philosophy is a broad term. From Wikipedia:
Quote:
Philosophy is the study of general and fundamental problems, such as those connected with reality, existence, knowledge, values, reason, mind, and language... In more casual speech, by extension, "philosophy" can refer to "the most basic beliefs, concepts, and attitudes of an individual or group".

True, there are bands whose lyrics can hardly be called philosophical, but on the other hand, it doesn't need to be classical philosophy. You can make your request more specific, for example:
http://www.metal-archives.com/search/ad ... ame=#bands
http://www.metal-archives.com/search/ad ... ame=#bands
http://www.metal-archives.com/search/ad ... ame=#bands
http://www.metal-archives.com/search/ad ... ame=#bands
http://www.metal-archives.com/search/ad ... ame=#bands
http://www.metal-archives.com/search/ad ... ame=#bands
http://www.metal-archives.com/search/ad ... ame=#bands
http://www.metal-archives.com/search/ad ... ame=#bands
http://www.metal-archives.com/search/ad ... ame=#bands
http://www.metal-archives.com/search/ad ... ame=#bands
http://www.metal-archives.com/search/ad ... ame=#bands
etc.

Top
 Profile  
Dembo
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:58 am
Posts: 86
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:20 am 
 

The problem with Wikipedia's definition, with "the most basic beliefs, concepts, and attitudes of an individual or group", is that it's no better than Wikipedia's definition of Rammstein as a metal band or nu metal as a sub-genre of metal, which they also base on "casual speech". Gets me thinking of sport journalists who talks about some coach having this or that "football philosophy", when it's obvious that words like "tactics", "strategy", "plan" or "preference" would be more to the point. But they don't sound as nice.

Even if some bands have lyrics that makes "philosophy" a suitable description, it may still be that tons of bands have it in their lyrical theme box because it looks good. Probably the same with alot of those "nihilist", "Nietzschean", "Socratic", etc bands.

However, this may be difficult to solve.

Top
 Profile  
MutantClannfear
Metalhead

Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 12:12 am
Posts: 2309
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:19 pm 
 

To be fair, I believe that Wikipedia was merely referring to the alternate definition of philosophy, which is a wholly valid contemporary definition of the word whether you'd like it to be or not. From what I've seen, in English, this definition doesn't overlap with the primary definition of "philosophy"; no one uses the secondary meaning of "the ethos, goals and guidelines of a group" and says that it means "philosophy" in the classical, traditional sense, since it's somewhat metaphorical and doesn't really convey the right image once it's disconnected from the group who use it. "Philosophy" and "Iron Maiden's personal philosophy" bring to mind two totally different images, and I doubt a band meaning the latter would present themselves as the former.

Top
 Profile  
Muhammadabbadabba
Metalhead

Joined: Wed Dec 31, 1969 8:00 pm
Posts: 1056
Location: R'lyeh
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:48 am 
 

While I find "philosophy" to be a valid tag, I echo John_Sunlight's assertion that a little specificity as to what specific ideas/themes lyricized about would help. As others have noted, philosophy is a very broad term which encompasses various schools of thought from a range of traditions with their own respective origins, key ideas, philosophers, et cetera. If a band lyricizes about philosophy, key ideas/concepts written about should accompany the "philosophy" tag. I don't find it too common a problem, as bands which focus on, say, transcendentalism usually receive the proper tag.

On the other hand, some bands focus on many abstract ideas from different traditions which in turn lends itself to syncretism. For instance, let's take Penance. Judeo-Christianity influences a share of their lyrics, but it's hardly the sole facet of the presented themes. Looking at the lyrics on Proving Ground and Parallel Corners, I wouldn't find it surprising to find out the New Age movement influenced their lyrics. I don't believe Penance invented solipsistic concepts and then attempted to pass as lyrical philosophers. They're very introspective, but their deep-seated beliefs and feelings seem to take precedence to one consistent school of thought.

EDIT: Never type when exhausted.
_________________
My Wanted List (note: no longer trading with Euros)


Last edited by Muhammadabbadabba on Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
aloof
Metal newbie

Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:18 pm
Posts: 391
Location: In the graveyard, doing handstands
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:39 am 
 

ok, I added "specificity" to Penance's page, since that's what they lyricize about...

Top
 Profile  
TheGrimWombat
Nelson Wannabe

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:06 am
Posts: 1416
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:32 pm 
 

Using a sports reference hasn't really helped your case, since most coaches are much deeper than just "tactics". How they train their players, and the values, morals, and other things they teach their players as well...
_________________
Successful deals: Metalrecords, screamingskulls1313, Gogsi (x2), Kovner, Lord_Elden, sehaitt, blutkvlts, Matty_The_Emo_Slayer, einvolk, Madcow

Top
 Profile  
Dembo
Metal newbie

Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 9:58 am
Posts: 86
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 1:25 pm 
 

TheGrimWombat wrote:
Using a sports reference hasn't really helped your case, since most coaches are much deeper than just "tactics". How they train their players, and the values, morals, and other things they teach their players as well...

"Gets me thinking of sport journalists who talks about some coach having this or that "football philosophy", when it's obvious that words like "tactics", "strategy", "plan" or "preference" would be more to the point. But they don't sound as nice."

Also:
Training - either a coach chooses his way of training the players because of how he prefers football to played and want to shape them to fit that style, or out of what he thinks is best to achieve some result. Again, preference and/or strategy is what he's dealing with, not philosophy.

Values/morals - While being a subject of philosophy, it has nothing to do with football, not even if football players are the pupils and football coaches the teachers. So "football philosophy" is still problematic.

Top
 Profile  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Exabot [Bot] and 8 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

 
Jump to:  

Back to the Encyclopaedia Metallum


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group