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VoidOfEternity
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:18 pm
Posts: 228
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 9:19 pm 
 

Couldn't find if this had been discussed anywhere else, so apologies in advance if it has, but as some / most / all may know, there are currently two bands operating under the name of Tank. It hadn't really been an issue up until recently, now that Algy Ward is releasing a new album under the name Tank in just a few days (samples of which are now on Amazon). Ward is the only member of the line up, which conflicts with the other Tank we have listed here on the Archives.

However, this new album, "Breath of the Pit", was listed on the existing Tank page. So, in cases like Queensryche, two separate band pages were made - what should it be in this case? Should the version of Tank without Ward (and the related albums / DVD) be moved to a new page, or should Algy's incarnation of Tank be the one to get it's own page? Or should they both just be left on the same entry?

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Derigin
Anthropophagus

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:25 am
Posts: 2437
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 10:48 pm 
 

Tough issue.

A few questions, as my knowledge of this case is a bit limited:
1. Did Algy Ward get kicked out of the band in 2007, or did he leave on his own accord?
2. Has Algy Ward come out at any time between 2007 and now indicating he was continuing the project?
3. Any word on how the rest of the band feels/considers this move? Anything from Metal Mind Productions?

Without knowing the answers to those questions, there's a few options we could take on this:

First option, we could create a single additional band page. "Tank", as we know it, stays the same. Another page for Algy Ward's "Tank" (under the name "Tank" as well) is created. An additional line is included in the "Years active" field in both Tanks, indicating that Algy Ward's "Tank" exists. For example: "1980-1989, 1997-present, 2007-present (as Algy Ward's Tank). A bit in the additional notes would explain why this is the case. This would be the case if Algy Ward restarted the project, from his opinion, or if he essentially created his own new version of "Tank". This would be based on the Queensryche precedent... however... that was also a more clear example of an individual leaving and creating their own version of the band.

Second option, we could simply note in the additional notes of "Breath of the Pit" that the album was produced by Algy Ward alone, and may not be seen by the rest of the band as legit. On the main band page, the additional notes would explain the split with the band. This may be confusing in terms of "ownership," however. It also causes a problem with line-ups. Not a very favorable option.

Third option, is the exact opposite of the first option, where the other band members are given their own band page for "Tank", and Algy Ward inherits the current band page on "Tank". This, to me, is dependent upon whether or not Algy Ward was kicked out or quit the band previously, or if the band simply ditched him. This really isn't that ideal of a solution, simply because it sets a precedent for 'founding members' to be the deciding factor in who "owns" a band, and not who might have the support of a label, or copyright, or whatnot. A very dangerous precedent.

Fourth option, we create two new band pages, in addition to the current one. The current "Tank" page would go until 2007, and then be set to "Changed Name." From that point on, you would have two new band pages created, one for "Tank" with the other members from 2007 onwards, and "Tank" with Algy Ward from 2007 onwards. This maintains the old page as the property of neither one group or another; the information on the page would be reverted back to its 2007 state. It may, however, cause a bit of confusion to our users who see three "Tank"s. Additional notes would hopefully help to resolve that, however.

Personally, I would lean towards the fourth or first options.

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Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
Posts: 4721
Location: United States
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 11:14 pm 
 

I found this, including two press releases.
http://www.tankfilthhounds.net/frames1.htm

December 20, 2008: Press release from Mick Tucker & Cliff Evans: "TANK are back in action! The legendary British power metal mercenaries have re-grouped and are ready for battle once more.
The release of the ‘DOGS OF WAR’ boxed set earlier this year was a great success which led to the inevitable re-release of the entire back catalogue (Metal Mind records). This has proved very popular with the die hard fans of old and helped to amass a new army of young fans worldwide. TANK are now very much in demand on the live front after being absent from the touring circuit for several years. With a distinctive attitude and energy to our trademark sound, TANK now have a new all-star lineup, fully equipped to crush everything in their path.
Unfortunately original vocalist/bassist ALGY WARD has decided to retire from active service and concentrate his efforts on writing his long awaited autobiography covering his career with THE DAMNED, THE SAINTS and TANK. We will miss him fighting alongside us and wish him all the best. THE WAR DRAGS EVER ON!
Joining MICK TUCKER and CLIFF EVANS on guitars will be original TANK drummer Mark Brabbs. A very welcome return for the powerhouse skins man. Two new recruits will now be joining the ranks. Ex RITCHIE BLACKMORE’S RAINBOW/YNGWIE MALMSTEEN frontman, DOOGIE WHITE, will be taking care of all vocal duties and ex BRUCE DICKINSON band bass player, CHRIS DALE, completes the lineup.
This new lineup will prove to be a major force to be reckoned with and will add a new dimension to the unmistakable TANK sound, driving them forward, unstoppable into 2009. Prepare for battle! TANK are back!"

February 7, 2012: Classic Rock Magazine interview with Algy Ward. June 17, 2009: http:// http://www.classicrockmagazine.com/ news/tank-no-tanks/
The Official Press Release from Algy Ward(TANK). Dated March 13, 2009:
"Message to all Filth Hounds. Encryption negative. Eat then read. Subject: Recent Misinformation.
... I have not retired.
And I will try to explain that due to ill health I am no longer able to perform live as I suffer from the following conditions (Google them for an in-depth explanation):- Tinnitus (constant ringing or noise in the ears) and hyperacusis (ultra sensitivity to loud sounds). When these are combined in a high noise level environment they cause middle ear balance and stability problems, nausea, disorientation and migraines (like being seasick on dry land!). I have tried all types of hearing devices and ear plugs designed for musicians playing at high volume but none have worked for me. Believe me it is no fun falling over without warning!
After consultations with specialist doctors and therapists I was advised (even with wear plugs) that to continue to play live would result in irreversible hearing damage and to avoid where possible contact with loud noise. I also have chronic fatigue syndrome/fibromyalgia (constant muscle pain/tiredness) and take seven, sometimes more, different medications (12 tablets total) a day to function somewhere near normal.. Even without hearing problems I am not in any condition, or likely to be, to go on tour.
But as you can hear at http://www.myspace.com/algytank I can, although painful, still write and record and will continue to do so with the Tank name, logos and images which are my intellectual property and copywrite. Thank you for your kind messages of support. They, like you, mean a lot to me.
Want more TANK/Sturmpanzer demos/information? Keep in touch with http://www.officialtank.net, http://www.myspace.com/algytank and http://www.reverbnation.com/ tankofficial and you will be advised, don't believe the lies, remember ALGY=TANK=ALGY. Hammer on! Depart from me ye cursed into ever lasting flames. ALGY."

February 21, 2012: Just fantastic news from Algy Ward's camp: "Awesome to see such support for the ORIGINAL & GENUINE TANK! An album of new TANK material from Algy Ward will be available for pre-order very soon... Track selection us happening NOW. Algy is writing & playing better than ever, with two albums worth of material already recorded or demo'd. Watch this space. In the meantime, here's a collection of demos from the last couple of years. Feel free to share.... HAMMER ON! http://www.reverbnation.com/ tankofficial".

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VoidOfEternity
Metal newbie

Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:18 pm
Posts: 228
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 11:27 pm 
 

As Zodijackyl pointed out, there seems to be some conflicting stories on what happened. To the best of my knowledge, the Evans/Tucker line up claims Ward retired, and they formed with Brabbs, one of the original members of Tank (but neither Evans nor Tucker are original members). Brabbs has since left, leaving no original members in this iteration as Tank.

Ward, however, claims that he has not retired (as noted above), and has in subsequent articles slammed the Evans/Tucker lineup of Tank as not being genuine, and also asserting that he's the one that owns the name Tank and everything associated with it (as stated here: http://blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=190519).

To quote:

Quote:
In a 2009 statement to Classic Rock magazine, Ward slammed his former bandmates for taking a version of the band out on the road in Europe without him. He said: "I wish the loyal TANK fans around the world to know that the band playing various European festivals under the name of 'TANK' do so without my consent.

"The band name TANK, associated logos and images are my sole intellectual property and copyright.


To my knowledge, there hasn't been any legal action on either side to determine who can perform as Tank.

So to answer your 3 questions:

1. Undetermined; the band says he had to retire, Ward says he didn't retire, so it seems they more or less booted him against his will.
2. He indicated something to this sort in 2009 (that the version of Tank out there now was not official and he would continue to write / record as Tank)
3. None that I've seen.

Hard to say based on your four options. I agree that #2 isn't very favorable and would be confusing. I think #3 depends entirely on Ward's statement about his ownership of the name, logo, etc. Tank, and unless they go to court over it (or someone else can dig up documents that prove it), I don't think we can make that decision.

Agreed that #1 or #4 are the best options. I think I'm inclined to lean towards #4, because while a bit confusing, does keep the site from having to make the decision on who the legitimate owner of the name, etc. is, until such time that it's resolved, if ever.

EDIT: An additional note, on the cover art of Ward's new Tank album, he put a Copyright symbol on the Tank logo. Not sure how much that matters.

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Derigin
Anthropophagus

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:25 am
Posts: 2437
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2013 12:43 pm 
 

Alright, going to apply option #4 for the time being, or until the situation changes. Congrats, Void, we have a new precedent. :)

EDIT: Band pages have been updated/created. Please go ahead and fix up the links, if you would like.

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