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Manic Maniac
Grammaritically Challengated

Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:58 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 4:59 pm 
 

One - For "Similar Artist" lists, the inclusion of bands not found in the archives. They don't need to be linked, at least, not to any Encyclopaedia Metallum page. This would be helpful for those looking up similar artist of borderline Metal bands.

Two - For each band page, whenever possible, put a "Influential Bands" list. For example, on the Metallica page, The list would include bands like Diamond Head, Motorhead, Misfits, Iron Maiden, etc. This can deffinately help give an idea what a band will sound like.
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Metantoine
The XVI, dominar to over 258714 subjects

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:00 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:30 pm 
 

Both are too much trouble for something not quite needed, in my opinion.
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Cursarion
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:56 am
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Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:24 pm 
 

Manic Maniac wrote:
Two - For each band page, whenever possible, put a "Influential Bands" list. For example, on the Metallica page, The list would include bands like Diamond Head, Motorhead, Misfits, Iron Maiden, etc. This can deffinately help give an idea what a band will sound like.

Doesn't the "Similar Artist" functionality do exactly that? Or actually, Megadeth and Testament give a lot better idea about that than Motörhead and Iron Maiden would.
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Manic Maniac
Grammaritically Challengated

Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:58 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:46 pm 
 

Well yeah, but the same can't be said about rarer bands, where the "similar artist" list are smaller, & some people might not be familiar with many of those bands. But "Influetial Bands" usually consists of more popular bands, artist people know how they sound.
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Cursarion
Metalhead

Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:56 am
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Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 7:08 pm 
 

Well, if band X influenced band Y, and the bands sound similar, the "Similar artist" functionality works just fine, doesn't it? But if band X influenced band Y, yet they don't sound similar, how does mentioning the band X influence help give an idea what band Y sounds like? Frankly, the more I think about this, the weirder your suggestion seems.
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Megadeth
Metalhead

Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 5:26 pm
Posts: 481
Location: Norway
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 5:10 am 
 

Who has been influential on some bands will be hard to determine or know for sure. If a guitarist states that he is inspired by K.K. Downing it doesn't mean that the band is. And if the band is, it doesn't mean that the influence has had any influence on how their music sounds; maybe it's just someone who inspired them to play, not how to play. If an influence has been using two guitarists, or double bass drums, or whatever, I don't see how that automatically means they sound anything alike. Most bands don't say anything about their influences, and some might pretend like they have been influenced by someone just to get some "credit". It's not trustworthy information as it's not possible to verify, so I don't think there should be a section for it.

If it is known and relevant, like Diamond Head and Motörhead has been influential for Metallica, then I think it should be put in the biography, in addition to some more "Both Lars and James has stated that they were influenced..." and not just "The band is influenced...". It is not a function that needs votes, if that is the thought.

I also agree with previous posts. If the purpose is to find out who they sound like, just use similar artists. If the influence doesn't sound similar it doesn't give an idea of what the band sounds like.

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Manic Maniac
Grammaritically Challengated

Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:58 pm
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Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 11:57 am 
 

The point of all this wasn't to get an idea of how to help get the picture of what bands sound like. When I said it can, I only ment that it can. But whether or not it will doesn't matter. I still kinda find it important to know what bands where influential.
& also, to counter all these arguments about it's usefulness, if band X is obscure, and/or of a rare genre, & it's similar artists are a bunch of unfamiliar bands, how does that help tell people what a band will sound like?
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Zodijackyl
Lazy Wizard

Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:39 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:11 pm 
 

Influential bands can be contested, and may not be a good indicator of what a band sounds like. Six Feet Under cite AC/DC as a major influence, Chimaira cite Nine Inch Nails as a major influence - not only are these easily able to be misinterpreted and prove misleading, it would be a lot of work for little gain to maintain such information. With those influences for a band like Metallica, it also may not represent their later works well, and if a newer band listed those influences, you would expect them to be more like the NWOBHM stuff than say... Metallica.

Manic Maniac wrote:
& also, to counter all these arguments about it's usefulness, if band X is obscure, and/or of a rare genre, & it's similar artists are a bunch of unfamiliar bands, how does that help tell people what a band will sound like?


Every band on MA has a relatively unambiguous genre that can give you a general idea of what they sound like. Similar artists provide both recommendations of other bands, as well as a bit of a reference point to what a band sounds like, but if you don't know the bands, then a lot of descriptions might be lost on you. It is sometimes noted that to every amateur black metal listener, every bands sounds like Darkthrone, a very generalized reference that is often misleading or inaccurate.

An example of similar artists that I voted up yesterday would be Varhorn. I noted them as being similar to Judas Iscariot and Sargeist - two bands that are somewhat apt comparisons at one point in each's career, and overall fairly well directed recommendations. If you don't know much black metal, will this help you? Probably not. Would it help to list influences of a bunch of bands you haven't heard of? The inclusion of simplified user opinions is unlikely to spread beyond the recommended artists option. If you have more to say, it's not hard to write a review!

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Manic Maniac
Grammaritically Challengated

Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:58 pm
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:53 pm 
 

As I said, I'm not worried of whether or not it is useful for knowing how they sound. I'm just saying that it can be helpful to some. & to further add, it's not like we're gonna take away the similar artists list.
But even if it isn't helpful, I think just knowing what bands where influential is important. Some people might be curious to know who where inpactful to band X's sound.
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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:15 pm 
 

If a band explicitly mentions their influences in an interview or a similar source, then a short text can be added to the additional notes/bio, if prefaced properly. "According to guitarist Sam/The band mentioned that/etc... they are influenced by...." That being said, the whole influence thing is very overused and meaningless in many instances and often just translates to "bands we like".

An attempt at anything more elaborate and forcibly systemized is not how we work. Making a specific voting function for this would be a dubious feature prone to shaky original research, subjectivity, conjecture and plain misinformed nonsense. Not to mention that it is simply not needed in this form for reasons other posters have already explained.
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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
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Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 3:29 pm 
 

That's not going to happen, sorry.
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Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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Manic Maniac
Grammaritically Challengated

Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:58 pm
Posts: 182
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:07 pm 
 

Making a specific voting function for this would be a dubious feature prone to shaky original research, subjectivity, conjecture and plain misinformed nonsense.

I never said we would use a voting system for this. We could, but it would be illogical & often inaccurate. Votes are based on opinions. This, however, is more factual. Aside from the Edit option, the Influental bands list is static, it does not need to have as many bands as possible, it does not need to be organized in a ying/yang formation (Least to Greatist, Most to least). It only needs to be as editable & as imprtant as the things like year of formation & genre.
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Azmodes
Ultranaut

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:44 am
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Location: Gradec, Austria
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:38 am 
 

Fair enough, but my core points still stand. If really necessary and relevant, a mention in the bio is enough.
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