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ashesofman
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:28 pm
Posts: 10
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:10 pm 
 

Of the Wand & the Moon is currently in the database, and there is really nothing metal about the band. I know neofolk was spawned forth from post-industrial, and that industrial is technically a form of metal. But, where do you draw the line? If a woman has a male child, is that child still technically a woman?

And, if Of the Wand & the Moon is going to be allowed, then why are Current 93, Death in June, Sol Invictus, Rome, ect. disallowed? Why are bands like Russian Circles, Red Sparowes, and Rosetta disallowed, when they are metal?

I feel that Of the Wand & the Moon (and other strictly neofolk acts) should be removed from the archives.

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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
Posts: 4779
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:50 pm 
 

No authority here but maybe Of the Wand & the Moon are on the Archives due to the side-project rule? I mean the guy was an integral member of Saturnus... Same goes for the majority of the non-metal bands you find on the Archives, they're usually a non-metallic side-project from some guy that had a predominant role in a known metal band.

As for Russian Circles, Red Sparowes, and Rosetta, I'm again no authority but the answer you'll get is that none of them are actually metal by the site's standards. Come to think of it I actually agree. They're all post-rock with slightly metallic leanings but none of them is full-blown metal.
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Obscurum
Emperor of the Shadows

Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:23 am
Posts: 378
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:00 pm 
 

Yeah, I'm assuming they all fall under the side-project rule, but industrial is not a form of metal (being a form of experimental music), hence popular industrial "metal" acts such as Nine Inch Nails being blacklisted, as being not metal-enough for the site.
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ashesofman
Mallcore Kid

Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2012 8:28 pm
Posts: 10
Location: United States
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:11 am 
 

There are different forms of industrial. Industrial rock is the type most people are talking about when they say industrial. Industrial metal exists, however. It's a sub-genre, or something like that, to standard industrial. Genres are largely imaginary, but some bands do classify their music as industrial metal. For example: Ministry, KMFDM, and Godflesh. (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_metal)

I feel compelled to vindicate myself, and let it be known that I actually dislike industrial (from what I've heard, which includes the above mentioned bands) quite a great deal.

Sorry for the digression.

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androdion
Metal freak

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:34 am
Posts: 4779
Location: Portugal
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:27 am 
 

No need for sorry. ;)

I can give a practical example when it comes to industrial. Think about grindcore where there's the metallic and non-metallic variants. Grindcore at its most basic is pretty much hyper fast hardcore punk right? But if you add some metal influences here, a few riffs there and so on you'll get a metallic version of it that's considered to be metal (although it's still a form of punk). Industrial music can be seen in the same way. At first it developed itself somewhat parallel to the post-punk scene, adding tiring repetitiveness and "machinal" sounds, cold and harsh atmospheres and whatnot. Then influences from other genres started creeping in and you got the offshoots of it, the "rock version" and the "metal version", etc. But still, industrial didn't primarily come from metal music.

See where I'm going with this? ;)
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Derigin
Anthropophagus

Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:25 am
Posts: 2482
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:32 am 
 

This has nothing to do with industrial music.

"Of the Wand & the Moon" was accepted as a (very, very rare) non-metal exception, likely due to the reasons androdion gave, and the fact that it is seen as fitting into the "metal scene."

There's a handful of bands (like Mortiis, Elend, Karl Sanders or even the LLN projects) that (arguably) have a specific sense of belonging when it comes to making a comprehensive metal encyclopedia like this one, and act as exceptions to the rule. They are rare (and also tend to have been added early on in the site's history) because their choosing isn't taken lightly. So, no, just because "Of the Wand & The Moon" are on the Archives, doesn't mean that every other band that might compare to them belongs here, too. You're not the first among users who has advocated for their removal, and certainly not the last. Even among staff the inclusion of non-metal on a metal archive is a controversial move, but there is some merit to arbitrarily (and critically) choosing some projects that might belong while other's don't, based on the principle that to the "metal scene" it is a sensible course of action. Judging by how often and how nonchalant some users take to the desired inclusion of their token non-metal projects on a metal encyclopedia... to be frank with you, I'm rather surprised we've survived this long without including everything under the moon. At least, that'd be the case if each user had the chance to add every band they felt belonged on a metal encyclopedia. But the fact remains that even taking that reality into account, among the staff as a whole there's a level of agreement that certain exceptions make sense. It's just that, nowadays, unless it is the side-project of a notable metal artist, the inclusion of a non-metal project that hasn't already been added over the last 10 years is almost an improbable circumstance. That said, this might not be the response you wanted, or one that you think makes sense to you or adds to the credibility of this site as a source of truly metal information... however (and I mean this with no offense intended) it's just how it is. It appears to work out fine, at least as far as the staff, users, and most visitors here are concerned.

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Morrigan
Crone of War

Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2002 7:27 am
Posts: 9514
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:33 am 
 

tl;dr version of Derigin's post: RTFM
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you can debate the actual date that metal began, but a fairly agreed upon date is 1969. Metal is almost 25 years old
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Why Iron maiden is there? It's very far to be metal than a lot of some metal band.

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